patrick.net

When SHTF, I’m converting to gold, 22lr, and yams.

ForcedTQ says

Yes, realize that. But that's because the majority of the fucking sheep don't even know or understand this. The sellers have this baked into their prices. It's up to those in the know to educate the purchasers as to the costs they incur when purchasing.

Gotta ask for cash discounts or go elsewhere when purchasing. I know, I know, NOT CONVENIENT! My feelings hurt and I don't wanna go shop somewhere else....

I'm choosing my battles carefully. If I started "educating the fucking sheep" and haggling for cash discount everytime I buy something, I recon my life would become very fucking miserable very fucking fast. I'm postponing it until I'm retired and bored out of my fucking mind and can use some valuable enterntainment. ;)

Goran_K says

When SHTF, I’m converting to gold, 22lr, and yams.

.44ACP here. Not much that’s as menacing as a big long barrel revolver. 2 inch placement at 50 yards says I mean business.

Quigley says

Another use: staying off the grid. In this digital age, everything we buy using electronic transactions or even store rewards cards can be tracked, tabulated, spreadsheets constructed, and analyzed for future targeted advertising. And this whole process is completely automated. If you don’t want the business world knowing just how often you have to spread preparation H on your o-ring, using cash for such purposes works well.

Totally get your sentiment. But you are literally going to have to get "off" the grid entirely then for it to even be worth the hassle. NO bills, NO mortgage, NO utilities, NO internet, etc. You get targeted advertising based on your electric consumption, which if you have an account is impossible to hide or avoid. Same with mounds of other shit they have data on. Hell, test out a crappy service like Spokeo.com and you'll see you're walking around naked privacy wise. In a past life I used services like this and you'd be surprised how public your stuff is.

If your privacy is a boat hull and water is the "bad guys" so to speak, your electric bill is a 1" hole in your boat. Mortage is a 2" hole. Internet 4" hole. I think you get the point. Fight the battle all you want, I won't stop you. Just know your privacy sank a long time ago when you got an internet connection.

In all honesty, your best bet is to change your name. Not kidding. Make it a common name that will confuse search engines and the like. A lot harder to pinpoint John Williams versus Harvey Nutowski. You've got 10k J.W.'s and 3 total Harvey Nutowski's in the world.

Quigley says

Goran_K says

When SHTF, I’m converting to gold, 22lr, and yams.

.44ACP here. Not much that’s as menacing as a big long barrel revolver. 2 inch placement at 50 yards says I mean business.

I agree. But 1,000 rounds of .44 mag is heavy to carry.

1,000 rounds of 22lr is trivial to carry.

I checked in and read a bit while being MIA posting here, but my apologies for going apeshit with the YOU(s) in comment 44. That red really highlights it and I know why it was done from my checking in.

@Patrick - one thing I don't like with the YOU thing is the HTML when quoting. Sometimes I like to reread something while typing a comment and there's a shitload of HTML tags in some of the quoted stuff due to YOU being in the comment along with making it red. You can keep it or dump it, doesn't really bother me either way technically. More of an observation (aka it annoys me slightly).

WookieMan says

If the apocalypse happens and I have $0 and a gun and you have $3M and an unlocked front door, what do you think the outcome is? I've got your useless cash until the next guy with bigger guns takes it from me. So yeah, unless you're selling drugs or gambling, cash generally is not king in a physical transaction during normal times or even the zombie apocalypse.

That is hilarious. Like there's no other scenarios between, where a bit of cash can be useful. Hilarious.

When my partner and I were both sidelined with the flu (not a cold, the "flu") we sent our then 16-year old out to get some household staples. She used some of the "contingency cash" we had in the house.

The reason I can see my spending easily when I use cash is I remember that I stuck 2 $20 bills in my wallet for example.

As I start spending it away on things I see that my wallet has less money in it and finally just a buck is left. I see the depletion.

With my credit card, I don't see anything unless I take a look at my statement.

Anyway, I have the fortunate circumstance of being able to pay for things that I want; I just hate spending money sometimes unless it's something I think is really going to make me satisfied.

i hate standing in line and I'm sure most people also...so I asked a friend what doesn't he keep some cash at home so he doesn't have to run to an ATM when he needs $50 or $100..he gave me the standard reply that he doesn't like to have cash because it can be stolen.....
So I asked him why was he worried about $100 cash getting stolen but he keeps $15,000 worth of Snapon tools in his garage only secured by a padlock on the door and doesn't think twice about it....
He had no answer..lol
Other typical reasons are "I dont like to carry cash on the street because I could get robbed...But I'll carry an $800 smartphone, a rolex watch, gold jewelry, $200 sunglasses......lol

1. Some ethnic eateries in Houston area take only cash or prefer cash for smaller purchases.
2. I buy some vegetables and meat from local farmer friends, they take only cash.
3. Traveling in W. Texas, there have been 2-3 cases in remote communities in last few years when internet connection did not work and I could not use card.

Snapon tools in his garage

Snapon tools are serious overkill for a homeowner. Not unusual for a 5 piece screwdriver set to cost $70. Or $30 for a single torx driver.

B.A.C.A.H. says

That is hilarious. Like there's no other scenarios between, where a bit of cash can be useful. Hilarious.

When my partner and I were both sidelined with the flu (not a cold, the "flu") we sent our then 16-year old out to get some household staples. She used some of the "contingency cash" we had in the house.

Not really, and not sure why it's funny. Never said cash is NOT EVER an option. I've used my MIL's credit card probably 50 times without her present, with her permission of course. I was the guy willing to run out and pick up supplies for the afternoon of hanging out (beer, wine, grillables, etc) and over the last decade I'd pick up the stuff and other times she insisted she pay for it. No cash, no change to deal with. Win-win if you ask me.

If you want to use cash for someone to run and get you shit if you can't, fine, I'm not actually judging that or care. All I'm getting at, in this specific example is that you don't NEED cash for your situation. Hand a card off, voluntarily of course, and they can get the same stuff with zero hassle. (For the record I'm a male and my mother in law is a female with completely different last names - unfortunately clarifying this is necessary)

komputodo says

Other typical reasons are "I dont like to carry cash on the street because I could get robbed...But I'll carry an $800 smartphone, a rolex watch, gold jewelry, $200 sunglasses......lol

You make a valid point here to some extent. I'd say the smartphone is a wash though. Good luck today being employable without even a basic smartphone (calls/text obviously, but email and web access).

What you decide to wear or accessorize yourself is a risk you have to accept I suppose. Or traverse the world nude.

You generally HAVE to have some form of payment with you though when you leave the house. Whatever method of payment that is, I don't actually care, but one carries a greater risk of being taken with no recourse outside of a police report and the cops not giving a shit over a $200 theft. Take my CC and 3 minutes later I can get a phone (if that's been stolen) and cancel the CC. Cash is gone, done, disappeared, etc. Thug could run over to Target 2 minutes after robbing me, charge $3k worth of goods and I don't owe a dime.

I'm sure I'm coming across as a dick, but I still don't get it. Your house isn't your physical person walking around. I could conceal carry of course, but even that doesn't guarantee anything if you're outnumbered. Hell, you're more likely to probably die in a robbery situation because you know the cash will be gone IF you choose to hand it over. If I'm in a stick up situation, just give 'em your wallet and move on. I can replace the items in my wallet in roughly an hour, so time really isn't a factor either.

clambo says

With my credit card, I don't see anything unless I take a look at my statement.

Anyway, I have the fortunate circumstance of being able to pay for things that I want; I just hate spending money sometimes unless it's something I think is really going to make me satisfied.

I hear you and don't think you're wrong for doing what works for you. I'm just looking at it differently I guess. I can look at my CC activity quicker than pulling out my cash and counting it. I have notifications for when the CC is used.

If I have a wad of 20's in my wallet and one (or more) slips away, it's just gone. My CC slips out and someone buys a home theater system with it, no worries. I don't know, guess I'm beating a dead horse here. Not saying opinions here are wrong, but where I live, carrying cash is really impractical and the people up in arms over a bank branch closing are frankly minimally retarded at some level. Haven't pulled cash out of anything over the last decade besides maybe 2 times at a casino. To each their own I suppose.

What about the pre-puberty lambs?
What should they use?

ForcedTQ says

Yes, realize that. But that's because the majority of the fucking sheep don't even know or understand this.

HeadSet says

Snapon tools are serious overkill for a homeowner. Not unusual for a 5 piece screwdriver set to cost $70. Or $30 for a single torx driver.

There's also the fact that it's very likely insured via homeowners insurance too. So yeah, it's not an apples to apples comparison from the comment you were acknowledging as well.

Now walking around with $15k of Snap-On tools strapped to your chest, then we can start talking. Lol, good luck doing that regardless how expensive they are. Literally proves the cash is stupid point even further. At least you could stab someone with a screwdriver. A $20 bill ain't gonna do the trick.

HeadSet says

Snapon tools in his garage

Snapon tools are serious overkill for a homeowner. Not unusual for a 5 piece screwdriver set to cost $70. Or $30 for a single torx driver.

Retired auto mechanic

HeadSet says

Snapon tools in his garage

Snapon tools are serious overkill for a homeowner. Not unusual for a 5 piece screwdriver set to cost $70. Or $30 for a single torx driver.

Retired auto mechanicWookieMan says

You make a valid point here to some extent. I'd say the smartphone is a wash though. Good luck today being employable without even a basic smartphone (calls/text obviously, but email and web access).

I guess I wasn't clear.....i was trying to say is instead of getting in line 6 times to withdraw $50, just withdraw $300 and be done with it....But some people act as if having $300 at home is HIGH RISK yet they have many many things much more valuable laying around. It's almost as if they have some type of fear of cash. If they are really so afraid that a famiily member is going to steal their money, just find a good hiding place.

WookieMan says

Now walking around with $15k of Snap-On tools strapped to your chest, then we can start talking. Lol, good luck doing that regardless how expensive they are. Literally proves the cash is stupid point even further. At least you could stab someone with a screwdriver. A $20 bill ain't gonna do the trick.

When first iPhones came out I used to joke that the only thing worth $700-800 I might be willing to carry on me everywhere would be my trusty Sig-Sauer. And look at me now: fucking iPhone is always in my pocket, even on the fucking beach or in fucking Tijuana/Ensenada. O tempora o mores!

WookieMan says

Feel like I've touched a nerve here though with a few people. Sorry. Not intended. You don't have to like it, you can try to fight it, but cash is mostly dead outside of gambling, drugs and tax evaders.

The reason you touched a nerve was because you were wrong... by a mile...

...."Cash remains the most frequent method of payment in the U.S., representing roughly 31 percent of consumer transactions, more than electronic, credit, debit or checks. Even with internet sales led by Amazon growing quickly, e-commerce represents less than 10 percent of all retail transactions."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/06/spike-the-dollars-obit-cash-is-still-a-growth-business.html

WookieMan says

I don't know, guess I'm beating a dead horse here. Not saying opinions here are wrong, but where I live, carrying cash is really impractical and the people up in arms over a bank branch closing are frankly minimally retarded at some level. Haven't pulled cash out of anything over the last decade besides maybe 2 times at a casino. To each their own I suppose.

To each his own...

2018 Findings from the Diary of Consumer Payment Choice

November 15, 2018

The 2018 report on the Diary of Consumer Payment Choice (DCPC) was the fourth Diary study conducted by the Federal Reserve. A demographically-representative sample of approximately 2,800 individuals participated in the Diary in October 2017. Findings from the 2017 DCPC show:

Cash continues to be the most frequently used payment instrument, representing 30 percent of all transactions and 55 percent of transactions under $10.

While online shopping continues to grow, 77 percent of payments were made in-person.1 For these in-person payments, cash accounted for 39 percent of the volume.

Survey respondents between 18 to 25 years of age and those 45 years and older use cash approximately 34 percent of the time to pay for transactions.

Consumers continue to use cash predominantly for smaller value transactions, with cash being used for 55 percent of payments under $10 and for 32 percent of payments between $10 and $24.99. Because the majority of reported transactions were below $25 in value, cash was the most used instrument overall.

Participants reported making approximately three quarters of all payments in-person and, for those payments, cash was used approximately 39 percent of the time.

Finally, the average daily value of cash held by consumers continued to increase in 2017 at $59 per person compared to $57 in 2016 and $51 in 2015, although these findings were not statistically significant.

Trends in Cash Usage

Cash remains the most used payment instrument


https://www.frbsf.org/cash/publications/fed-notes/2018/november/2018-findings-from-the-diary-of-consumer-payment-choice/

komputodo says

I guess I wasn't clear.....i was trying to say is instead of getting in line 6 times to withdraw $50, just withdraw $300 and be done with it....But some people act as if having $300 at home is HIGH RISK yet they have many many things much more valuable laying around. It's almost as if they have some type of fear of cash. If they are really so afraid that a famiily member is going to steal their money, just find a good hiding place.

I probably misinterpreted to be honest. I agree with you 100% if cash is your gig (AGAIN (not you) use cash if you want). If you're going to pull out some cash, don't fuck around with it as I now understand your point. Be safe with what you have on hand, but don't go to the ATM once a week to get that cash. Time is money too. Make more money or take more out at that visit regardless of fees. $500 seems to be the standard ATM withdrawal, but if you need more just go into the branch.

At the end of the day though, I don't waste a minute of my time going to an ATM (free or fee) or a branch and have never had a problem. Use cash if it's what works for you or makes you comfortable. All I was asking is WHY you use it and most/many of the reasons could be debunked outright.

MrMagic says

The reason you touched a nerve was because you were wrong... by a mile...

You missed April 1st by a couple weeks now. I sincerely hope this is a joke, right? Your own graph states a majority of transactions are done via credit, debit, even check (physical paper itself, but electronic technically). At what point are these transactions with physical cash? 70% or more transactions are cash free in your graph.

MrMagic says

WookieMan says

70% or more transactions are cash free in your graph.

I'll correct myself before anyone gets their undies in a knot. 67-70% on the years in the graph are cash free transactions.

Forgot to ask if we're talking statute miles or nautical with how far I'm off?

Credit cards are irresponsible simple. If one needs credit to buy loaf of bread, they are not managing their finances well.

FortWayneIndiana says

Credit cards are irresponsible simple. If one needs credit to buy loaf of bread, they are not managing their finances well.

Explain? What's the difference if you pay the balance? I don't get your comment at all. It doesn't make sense at all.

If getting $4k worth of value back in a year is irresponsible you may want to rethink how you make money. Doing pretty good $/hr using a credit card, but hey... whatever?

Maybe I was stupid for starting a thread thinking there would have been educated, reasonable and coherent responses. A guy could only hope. Have a good Friday, lol.

WookieMan says

CC points are also relative to how they're redeemed depending on the program. I've calculated about 8-10% back depending on the points used for the flight overall.

This seems a bit on the high side to me. I've got a Chase United Mileage Pus Explorer card which gives one mile for every dollar spent on most purchases. Here's the rough calculations I use for a Saver Award: $250 for a one way flight/12,5000 miles = $0.02/mile. Two cents is approximately 2 percent back for every dollar spent.
I just noticed United will be reworking their Mileage Plus program and pricing frequent flyer flights based on demand. Will be interesting it see how these changes pan out.

I assume the number and quantity of cash transactions is greatly under-reported. Who, in a survey, is going to admit the cash payments that made related to illegal or socially-shameful activities? I bet Trump wishes he paid Stormy in cash.

WookieMan says

FortWayneIndiana says

Credit cards are irresponsible simple. If one needs credit to buy loaf of bread, they are not managing their finances well.

Explain? What's the difference if you pay the balance? I don't get your comment at all. It doesn't make sense at all.

If getting $4k worth of value back in a year is irresponsible you may want to rethink how you make money. Doing pretty good $/hr using a credit card, but hey... whatever?

Maybe I was stupid for starting a thread thinking there would have been educated, reasonable and coherent responses. A guy could only hope. Have a good Friday, lol.

Because you pay interest on things you buy with a credit card. Because credit cards make people spend more than they would normally if they were relying on cash.

I know how that business works, sucker people with "cashback", but those same people don't realize they are paying interest which accrues daily.

FortWayneIndiana says

Because you pay interest on things you buy with a credit card.

Looks like somebody didn't pay his bill on time. Perhaps you and troutman can commiserate.

If you pay your statement balance by the due date and the previous statement balance was paid in full, you pay NO INTEREST.

FortWayneIndiana says

Because you pay interest on things you buy with a credit card. Because credit cards make people spend more than they would normally if they were relying on cash.

Everyone is an indvidual. Some folks have the discipline to use these and spend no more than if it were with cash, pay the balance, collect the cash back rewards.

Not all "users" are irresponsible spenders.

Regarding the privacy, it's only a matter of time before the serial numbers on the currency notes are scanned with each transaction.

When I withdrew a large quantity of banknotes with a teller, the "counting machine" was used. Even if the large number of notes were of small denominations.

ATM machines may soon also scan the serial numbers, if they are not doing so already. Ditto for ATM (or teller) accepting cash deposits.

Since I cannot conveniently live outside of the system, I just use it to enjoy the "cash back" with the credit card for many purchases that I formerly used cash for.

BlueSardine says

What about the pre-puberty lambs?
What should they use?

Their parents credit card?

WookieMan says

Patrick - one thing I don't like with the YOU thing is the HTML when quoting. Sometimes I like to reread something while typing a comment and there's a shitload of HTML tags in some of the quoted stuff due to YOU being in the comment along with making it red. You can keep it or dump it, doesn't really bother me either way technically. More of an observation (aka it annoys me slightly).

Yes, maybe it's time to remove that.

WookieMan says

Your own graph states a majority of transactions are done via credit, debit, even check (physical paper itself, but electronic technically). At what point are these transactions with physical cash? 70% or more transactions are cash free in your graph.

Reading comprehension. Did you miss this:

MrMagic says

Cash remains the most used payment instrument

I'll help you out. That means SINGULAR transaction type. Now, to support your narrative you want to group all other transaction types together and say "see, cash is only 30% while all others combined is 70%".... Duh..

WookieMan says

You generally HAVE to have some form of payment with you though when you leave the house. Whatever method of payment that is, I don't actually care,

And in that situation, CASH is the largest form being used today. Got it?

Is that clear?

I use a lot of cash. Mostly because I don't want the elite and govt to be able to control me as easily in a future cashless society. Partly for emergencies. Also as Pat has stated credit cards are basically tracking devices. I also like to fan out a lot of cash like a hand of cards and flick bills onto the counter when I pay for stuff.

My safeway club card, well I don't know who's phone number is attached to it. Same with my other club cards. I just make them up like an illegal alien makes up social security numbers. :)

I know I know. I'm tilting at windmills. It's just the principle.

A lot of work that I do relates to health care and I have to be careful with personally identifiable information, sort of like HIPAA. Meanwhile, last year I listened in to a datamining conference here in SD where Lexusnexis were bragging about how they can get around HIPAA to mine and sell your health info. They just track every fucking thing else you do and their AI takes care of the rest.

They were slapped down this year for doing it but they'll find another angle.

For bigger purchases I use the cards and get the points. This guy Graham has a lot of great videos. He really kills it. Anyone interesting in a new card:

www.youtube.com/embed/xNl8jOilTZY

I may get the amazon card.

Who else besides Banks and Governments wants less Cash transactions?

Retail Space Landlords. They often get a cut of the gross, and if the biz owner isn't reporting all the cash... whereas there are much easier legal ways to get a hold of CC transaction records.

I once left my credit card in an ATM in Palo Alto. I was sooo drunk. Good thing I was protected. haha

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