patrick.net

What about the pre-puberty lambs?
What should they use?

ForcedTQ says

Yes, realize that. But that's because the majority of the fucking sheep don't even know or understand this.

HeadSet says

Snapon tools are serious overkill for a homeowner. Not unusual for a 5 piece screwdriver set to cost $70. Or $30 for a single torx driver.

There's also the fact that it's very likely insured via homeowners insurance too. So yeah, it's not an apples to apples comparison from the comment you were acknowledging as well.

Now walking around with $15k of Snap-On tools strapped to your chest, then we can start talking. Lol, good luck doing that regardless how expensive they are. Literally proves the cash is stupid point even further. At least you could stab someone with a screwdriver. A $20 bill ain't gonna do the trick.

HeadSet says

Snapon tools in his garage

Snapon tools are serious overkill for a homeowner. Not unusual for a 5 piece screwdriver set to cost $70. Or $30 for a single torx driver.

Retired auto mechanic

HeadSet says

Snapon tools in his garage

Snapon tools are serious overkill for a homeowner. Not unusual for a 5 piece screwdriver set to cost $70. Or $30 for a single torx driver.

Retired auto mechanicWookieMan says

You make a valid point here to some extent. I'd say the smartphone is a wash though. Good luck today being employable without even a basic smartphone (calls/text obviously, but email and web access).

I guess I wasn't clear.....i was trying to say is instead of getting in line 6 times to withdraw $50, just withdraw $300 and be done with it....But some people act as if having $300 at home is HIGH RISK yet they have many many things much more valuable laying around. It's almost as if they have some type of fear of cash. If they are really so afraid that a famiily member is going to steal their money, just find a good hiding place.

WookieMan says

Now walking around with $15k of Snap-On tools strapped to your chest, then we can start talking. Lol, good luck doing that regardless how expensive they are. Literally proves the cash is stupid point even further. At least you could stab someone with a screwdriver. A $20 bill ain't gonna do the trick.

When first iPhones came out I used to joke that the only thing worth $700-800 I might be willing to carry on me everywhere would be my trusty Sig-Sauer. And look at me now: fucking iPhone is always in my pocket, even on the fucking beach or in fucking Tijuana/Ensenada. O tempora o mores!

WookieMan says

Feel like I've touched a nerve here though with a few people. Sorry. Not intended. You don't have to like it, you can try to fight it, but cash is mostly dead outside of gambling, drugs and tax evaders.

The reason you touched a nerve was because you were wrong... by a mile...

...."Cash remains the most frequent method of payment in the U.S., representing roughly 31 percent of consumer transactions, more than electronic, credit, debit or checks. Even with internet sales led by Amazon growing quickly, e-commerce represents less than 10 percent of all retail transactions."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/06/spike-the-dollars-obit-cash-is-still-a-growth-business.html

WookieMan says

I don't know, guess I'm beating a dead horse here. Not saying opinions here are wrong, but where I live, carrying cash is really impractical and the people up in arms over a bank branch closing are frankly minimally retarded at some level. Haven't pulled cash out of anything over the last decade besides maybe 2 times at a casino. To each their own I suppose.

To each his own...

2018 Findings from the Diary of Consumer Payment Choice

November 15, 2018

The 2018 report on the Diary of Consumer Payment Choice (DCPC) was the fourth Diary study conducted by the Federal Reserve. A demographically-representative sample of approximately 2,800 individuals participated in the Diary in October 2017. Findings from the 2017 DCPC show:

Cash continues to be the most frequently used payment instrument, representing 30 percent of all transactions and 55 percent of transactions under $10.

While online shopping continues to grow, 77 percent of payments were made in-person.1 For these in-person payments, cash accounted for 39 percent of the volume.

Survey respondents between 18 to 25 years of age and those 45 years and older use cash approximately 34 percent of the time to pay for transactions.

Consumers continue to use cash predominantly for smaller value transactions, with cash being used for 55 percent of payments under $10 and for 32 percent of payments between $10 and $24.99. Because the majority of reported transactions were below $25 in value, cash was the most used instrument overall.

Participants reported making approximately three quarters of all payments in-person and, for those payments, cash was used approximately 39 percent of the time.

Finally, the average daily value of cash held by consumers continued to increase in 2017 at $59 per person compared to $57 in 2016 and $51 in 2015, although these findings were not statistically significant.

Trends in Cash Usage

Cash remains the most used payment instrument


https://www.frbsf.org/cash/publications/fed-notes/2018/november/2018-findings-from-the-diary-of-consumer-payment-choice/

komputodo says

I guess I wasn't clear.....i was trying to say is instead of getting in line 6 times to withdraw $50, just withdraw $300 and be done with it....But some people act as if having $300 at home is HIGH RISK yet they have many many things much more valuable laying around. It's almost as if they have some type of fear of cash. If they are really so afraid that a famiily member is going to steal their money, just find a good hiding place.

I probably misinterpreted to be honest. I agree with you 100% if cash is your gig (AGAIN (not you) use cash if you want). If you're going to pull out some cash, don't fuck around with it as I now understand your point. Be safe with what you have on hand, but don't go to the ATM once a week to get that cash. Time is money too. Make more money or take more out at that visit regardless of fees. $500 seems to be the standard ATM withdrawal, but if you need more just go into the branch.

At the end of the day though, I don't waste a minute of my time going to an ATM (free or fee) or a branch and have never had a problem. Use cash if it's what works for you or makes you comfortable. All I was asking is WHY you use it and most/many of the reasons could be debunked outright.

MrMagic says

The reason you touched a nerve was because you were wrong... by a mile...

You missed April 1st by a couple weeks now. I sincerely hope this is a joke, right? Your own graph states a majority of transactions are done via credit, debit, even check (physical paper itself, but electronic technically). At what point are these transactions with physical cash? 70% or more transactions are cash free in your graph.

MrMagic says

WookieMan says

70% or more transactions are cash free in your graph.

I'll correct myself before anyone gets their undies in a knot. 67-70% on the years in the graph are cash free transactions.

Forgot to ask if we're talking statute miles or nautical with how far I'm off?

Credit cards are irresponsible simple. If one needs credit to buy loaf of bread, they are not managing their finances well.

FortWayneIndiana says

Credit cards are irresponsible simple. If one needs credit to buy loaf of bread, they are not managing their finances well.

Explain? What's the difference if you pay the balance? I don't get your comment at all. It doesn't make sense at all.

If getting $4k worth of value back in a year is irresponsible you may want to rethink how you make money. Doing pretty good $/hr using a credit card, but hey... whatever?

Maybe I was stupid for starting a thread thinking there would have been educated, reasonable and coherent responses. A guy could only hope. Have a good Friday, lol.

WookieMan says

CC points are also relative to how they're redeemed depending on the program. I've calculated about 8-10% back depending on the points used for the flight overall.

This seems a bit on the high side to me. I've got a Chase United Mileage Pus Explorer card which gives one mile for every dollar spent on most purchases. Here's the rough calculations I use for a Saver Award: $250 for a one way flight/12,5000 miles = $0.02/mile. Two cents is approximately 2 percent back for every dollar spent.
I just noticed United will be reworking their Mileage Plus program and pricing frequent flyer flights based on demand. Will be interesting it see how these changes pan out.

I assume the number and quantity of cash transactions is greatly under-reported. Who, in a survey, is going to admit the cash payments that made related to illegal or socially-shameful activities? I bet Trump wishes he paid Stormy in cash.

WookieMan says

FortWayneIndiana says

Credit cards are irresponsible simple. If one needs credit to buy loaf of bread, they are not managing their finances well.

Explain? What's the difference if you pay the balance? I don't get your comment at all. It doesn't make sense at all.

If getting $4k worth of value back in a year is irresponsible you may want to rethink how you make money. Doing pretty good $/hr using a credit card, but hey... whatever?

Maybe I was stupid for starting a thread thinking there would have been educated, reasonable and coherent responses. A guy could only hope. Have a good Friday, lol.

Because you pay interest on things you buy with a credit card. Because credit cards make people spend more than they would normally if they were relying on cash.

I know how that business works, sucker people with "cashback", but those same people don't realize they are paying interest which accrues daily.

FortWayneIndiana says

Because you pay interest on things you buy with a credit card.

Looks like somebody didn't pay his bill on time. Perhaps you and troutman can commiserate.

If you pay your statement balance by the due date and the previous statement balance was paid in full, you pay NO INTEREST.

FortWayneIndiana says

Because you pay interest on things you buy with a credit card. Because credit cards make people spend more than they would normally if they were relying on cash.

Everyone is an indvidual. Some folks have the discipline to use these and spend no more than if it were with cash, pay the balance, collect the cash back rewards.

Not all "users" are irresponsible spenders.

Regarding the privacy, it's only a matter of time before the serial numbers on the currency notes are scanned with each transaction.

When I withdrew a large quantity of banknotes with a teller, the "counting machine" was used. Even if the large number of notes were of small denominations.

ATM machines may soon also scan the serial numbers, if they are not doing so already. Ditto for ATM (or teller) accepting cash deposits.

Since I cannot conveniently live outside of the system, I just use it to enjoy the "cash back" with the credit card for many purchases that I formerly used cash for.

BlueSardine says

What about the pre-puberty lambs?
What should they use?

Their parents credit card?

WookieMan says

Patrick - one thing I don't like with the YOU thing is the HTML when quoting. Sometimes I like to reread something while typing a comment and there's a shitload of HTML tags in some of the quoted stuff due to YOU being in the comment along with making it red. You can keep it or dump it, doesn't really bother me either way technically. More of an observation (aka it annoys me slightly).

Yes, maybe it's time to remove that.

WookieMan says

Your own graph states a majority of transactions are done via credit, debit, even check (physical paper itself, but electronic technically). At what point are these transactions with physical cash? 70% or more transactions are cash free in your graph.

Reading comprehension. Did you miss this:

MrMagic says

Cash remains the most used payment instrument

I'll help you out. That means SINGULAR transaction type. Now, to support your narrative you want to group all other transaction types together and say "see, cash is only 30% while all others combined is 70%".... Duh..

WookieMan says

You generally HAVE to have some form of payment with you though when you leave the house. Whatever method of payment that is, I don't actually care,

And in that situation, CASH is the largest form being used today. Got it?

Is that clear?

I use a lot of cash. Mostly because I don't want the elite and govt to be able to control me as easily in a future cashless society. Partly for emergencies. Also as Pat has stated credit cards are basically tracking devices. I also like to fan out a lot of cash like a hand of cards and flick bills onto the counter when I pay for stuff.

My safeway club card, well I don't know who's phone number is attached to it. Same with my other club cards. I just make them up like an illegal alien makes up social security numbers. :)

I know I know. I'm tilting at windmills. It's just the principle.

A lot of work that I do relates to health care and I have to be careful with personally identifiable information, sort of like HIPAA. Meanwhile, last year I listened in to a datamining conference here in SD where Lexusnexis were bragging about how they can get around HIPAA to mine and sell your health info. They just track every fucking thing else you do and their AI takes care of the rest.

They were slapped down this year for doing it but they'll find another angle.

For bigger purchases I use the cards and get the points. This guy Graham has a lot of great videos. He really kills it. Anyone interesting in a new card:

www.youtube.com/embed/xNl8jOilTZY

I may get the amazon card.

Who else besides Banks and Governments wants less Cash transactions?

Retail Space Landlords. They often get a cut of the gross, and if the biz owner isn't reporting all the cash... whereas there are much easier legal ways to get a hold of CC transaction records.

I once left my credit card in an ATM in Palo Alto. I was sooo drunk. Good thing I was protected. haha

personal

WookieMan says

Patrick - one thing I don't like with the YOU thing is the HTML when quoting.

You're right. The point was made, now it's just annoying.

So in new comments and posts, "you" will no longer be highlighted in red.

@WookieMan ^^

Patrick says

WookieMan says

Patrick - one thing I don't like with the YOU thing is the HTML when quoting. Sometimes I like to reread something while typing a comment and there's a shitload of HTML tags in some of the quoted stuff due to YOU being in the comment along with making it red. You can keep it or dump it, doesn't really bother me either way technically. More of an observation (aka it annoys me slightly).

Yes, maybe it's time to remove that.

You could strip the tags out of the quoted (and edited) stuff, then add them back in when it goes up on the board. Personally, though, I'd vote for removing the red altogether. Was interesting for a little while, though.

I find there are more situations (for me) when credit card is REQUIRED than there are when cash is required.

For example, you MUST use credit card or ATM card:
• some street parking meters (or do you really carry $12 of quarters with you at all times)
• rent a car
• deposit for hotel
• many things you buy on line (or you use PayPal, which is also hooked to a credit card or bank account — but definitely tracked either way)

I have a slim iPhone case with a few slots in it to act as my wallet, so I carry as little currency as possible (and no change at all). Nice and light! Anyway, I use credit card or Apple Pay for just about everything; I keep a few $20 bills and a $100 bill tucked away in the iPhone wallet but use that only as a last resort.

SunnyvaleCA says

I find there are more situations (for me) when credit card is REQUIRED than there are when cash is required.

For example, you MUST use credit card or ATM card:
• some street parking meters (or do you really carry $12 of quarters with you at all times)
• rent a car
• deposit for hotel
• many things you buy on line (or you use PayPal, which is also hooked to a credit card or bank account — but definitely tracked either way)

Everyone know those, how about locally. It drives me nuts that people swipe their cards for items that cost a few dollars, and it ties up the lines waiting for the transaction to finish:

You stop at a 7-11 to buy a $1.50 soda or coffee.
Hit the deli for a quick sandwich..
Pick up a pizza or Chinese food on the way home.
Go through the McDonalds drive-thru.
Grab some donuts at Dunkin'.
Throwing a co-worker a couple of bucks for bringing back lunch.
Donations for the organizations outside the stores: Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts, Veterans, Little League, etc.

I think it's nuts to swipe a card for anything under $20.

MrMagic says

It drives me nuts that people swipe their cards for items that cost a few dollars, and it ties up the lines waiting for the transaction to finish:

This is like the twilight zone. People paying with cash or with checks absolutely hold up lines more often over the card users. I never thought I'd ever see this stated in my life. There are so many levels of wrong to this is doesn't even warrant explaining. Use cash all you want, I never said it was wrong and wasn't my point. Not sure why pure rubbish is being introduced into the topic though.

MrMagic says

It drives me nuts that people swipe their cards for items that cost a few dollars, and it ties up the lines waiting for the transaction to finish

I agree with you there. Credit cards are sooooo 20th century! Out here I use ApplePay™ for most things. It's very fast. In fact, at the supermarket I can use it before the cashier has even finished scanning the groceries. Literally 0 additional time.

SunnyvaleCA says

Credit cards are sooooo 20th century! Out here I use ApplePay™ for most things. It's very fast. In fact, at the supermarket I can use it before the cashier has even finished scanning the groceries. Literally 0 additional time.

Technically it's still a CC or debit (as I'm sure you know) with ApplePay. Just faster as stated. Even card in hand transactions are substantially faster though than cash. The only variable is the person paying attention to swipe it or not.

Person with cash sitting there counting it, then the chick pulling out a change purse for exact fucking change. You then have the 17 year old cashier, who sucks at math who will get fired if his register doesn't balance out sitting there dicking with counting the customers money and then has to give change. Then the customer gets their change, like they didn't fucking know it was coming, count and face the bills and then put it in their wallet. All while I'm waiting behind this person. So I screw the hot chick behind me and have our first child by the time this dumbass in front of me has walked away (and dropped $5 for me on the ground... idiot).

Cash has its value of course. But in the modern world it's ultimately inferior and slower for normal transactions. There have been multiple points/arguments made about cash, but nothing is sticking in my opinion to make me want to run to the ATM each week to grab a wad of cash (that I sometimes have to pay to get) and dick around with it. Not stating it should go away, it's just inconvenient and clunky to say the least.

I try to use cash as much as possible, many of these reasons have already been listed:

* Privacy
* I like to support local business, credit cards take a cut out of the profits for those businesses.
* As a follow up I can often get a cheaper price paying cash to a local business, because of no fee or because some of them I suspect aren't reporting all their income.
* Cash transactions clear immediately, so I always know what I have and what I don't.
* I buy a lot of second-hand off craigslist or offerup.
* My life is too busy to spend time tracking point systems.
* If you want to claim the 10% gift to charity on your IRS taxes came from cash donations to a church, you better be able to show cash withdrawals in that amount.
* Identity theft. If someone steals your identity, you might have trouble resolving those fraudulent credit card transactions.
* Card skimmers, don't work on cash.
* Bank holidays, always a guarantee when economy is going down the shitter.

The biggest concern I have about your thinking is your clearly favor a cashless society. You know what that means right? A barcode or RFID chip that get's scanned everywhere you go. Is that really the future you want?

This is the problem with fractional reserve banking. First we get fooled into thinking paper is money, then they take the paper away and fool us into thinking numbers are money, then they tie the numbers into a social credit system like in China...

NuttBoxer says

First we get fooled into thinking paper is money, then they take the paper away and fool us into thinking numbers are money, then they tie the numbers into a social credit system like in China...

Good point!
Banks and credit agencies are already under pressure by social justice groups to deny services to any person or entity who doesn’t toe the Leftist line. In a cashless society, the very ability to use money could be denied someone for expressing an unpopular belief, like there are only two genders.

Once you give an entity all the power to make your life easier, you’ve also given them the power to take everything from you.

I was making this point earlier in the thread as a reason to use cash, but I got told I was a tinfoil hat nutjob...

Quigley says

Once you give an entity all the power to make your life easier, you’ve also given them the power to take everything from you.

You folks are getting paranoid. Just....uh.... don't bank with Chase.
Are Chase Bank’s Account Decisions Motivated by Politics?

This might have something to do with it: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-04-22/jim-quinn-their-plan-fk-you

NuttBoxer says

The biggest concern I have about your thinking is your clearly favor a cashless society.

Not my agenda at all. Was just asking a question. I personally use cash, currently and will in the future. I also use credit and spend minimal time (2 hours per year) getting $4k in tax free dollars swiping a card and not holding up the line. Not trying to be a dick, but outside of your local purchase reasons, non of them hold water.

Cash will ALWAYS be around and get you shit. A CC is just easier, can pay you and won't just fall out of your wallet and instantly be gone.