patrick.net

msmonroe says

People are brought up to think that you must play fair, pay your debts etc, crapola. Thats just what corps and the rich tell the middle class to keep them complacent.

I agree people should play fair... when the banks do. When they all jack up there interest rates when you were late on some other bill, that's complete bullshit. Most banks are looking for any excuse to make more $ off of you, if they don't play fair, why should we?

iluv2padl says

This post shows how a minor event can trigger a person’s financial collapse if they have a high debt level. A similar thing happened to me… lender misplaced a check I sent for a business line of credit pay down. I sent another with clear instructions to not cash the first. They cashed both, one check bounced, the lender gave no consideration and closed the account without warning.

A smart person would have issued a stop payment on the first check. Your not dealing with a Mom and Pop outfit there. The person that answers the phone isn't the same person that deposits the checks, they may not even be in the same state. This is partly your own fault.

Credit card companies make their money on the weak. How many of us have had lines of credit cancelled in the past 18 months because we were paid in full? I know I have, and I've got a credit score over 800.

Just to throw a little gas on the fire ......... The laws of nature and survival would put your self-interest above all else.

Professor White says:

Giving up, then, would be bad. Unless, of course, giving up on a debt, i.e. walking away from your mortgage, is the soundest financial decision you can make. Professor White would suggest it is OK—smart even—to give up strategically, when doing so is in your self-interest.

It is amazing how much morality gets brought into debt payment discussions.
What is immoral is that MM had access to $90k of unsecured debt. From the minimal information provided a rational level of unsecured debt for someone like MM would be about $5k. This is an amount that a creditor could lend and re lend to MM forever and have a very good expectation of re payment. Lending sums like $90k to financially unsophisticated people - which is 99.99% of the population - is wrong morally and also just plain stupid. This is like putting a kid in a room with candy and saying that they will have to do an hour of chores for every candy bar two years in the future.

m1ckey6 says

It is amazing how much morality gets brought into debt payment discussions.
What is immoral is that MM had access to $90k of unsecured debt. From the minimal information provided a rational level of unsecured debt for someone like MM would be about $5k. This is an amount that a creditor could lend and re lend to MM forever and have a very good expectation of re payment. Lending sums like $90k to financially unsophisticated people - which is 99.99% of the population - is wrong morally and also just plain stupid. This is like putting a kid in a room with candy and saying that they will have to do an hour of chores for every candy bar two years in the future.

Yea, he's a victim. and stuff.

This is a great way for the man on the bottom of the financial ladder to play the game the same way as those at the top have been doing for so long.

While we all know that we should pay our own bills, the newest regulations and practices by our gov't. leaders and the wealthiest among us says just the opposite.

What is REALLY immoral is that someone who works extremely hard, plans, saves and becomes successful and debt free doesn't understand that his mortgage holder, banker and government gladly and vehemently deny him the same opportunity for extreme wealth they have taken for their own based on his hard work. Or, worse yet, that he thinks did all on his own in the first place.
It really takes a village or system. Not a marketplace.

Unregulated (note this word please) capitalism is a noose around most of our necks and we have the crank to tightening the noose in our hands and we just keep crankin' it harder and harder against ourselves. Our cheerleaders wave Old Glory in support or call for morality whilst we turn blue.

I say kudos to anyone who was brave enough to use the current game to his advantage. Congrats on stepping off the merry-go-round. I'm trying to grow the balls to do it myself.

Wow. what a bunch of whining holier than though do gooders. A bunch of you have been well trained. Dont look massa in the eye boy! Keep your nose to the grindstone and produce for your betters, is the only moral thing to do!
Do any of you have any clue where unsecured debt "money" comes from? NOWHERE. It is a debt incurred in the bank balance sheet backed by the possibility that you will not default. Only the interest and penalties that you pay are real money (based on your labor) the principal is not. The principal is just numbers carried in a balance spreadsheet and insured with credit default swaps that are backed by the federal government with more debts (t-bills) that do not matter because they came from nowhere! Is all pixels on a screen people. Wake the hell up!!!

#28 Drug Lord in Mexico or drug runner more likely turns you in fertilizer and the saying Karma is a Bitch comes to mind! Your family calls the local police and they come investigate and "I see nothing" (said like Sgt. Schultz)

American Express SAYS "PRICELESS"

MacombMichigan says

I make mistakes and fail and I am tossed into the wood chipper feet first. The million dollar a year Banksters fail and it is just business as usual.
Bank Failure Friday Roars Back: Six Banks Fail, Costing FDIC $2.6 Billion

BULL, You posted as if it think you were oh so clever, and screwing the system, Why else would you Deposit a CASH advance in your sisters account, You were clearly posting as if proud of the fact, don't now try and say you covered your debts, your an Blank... period.

Unethical deceitful neighbor.......Would not want you living next to me....No doubt about the cc companies and policy's are certainly a rip off.......having said that.
That does not make you right......or two wrongs do not make a right? This is your analogy apparently. If you don't have the money, then you should not be borrowing from the mafia.

Having gone through bankruptcy over 10yrs ago, I can honestly say that it did not hurt our credit at all; in fact it helped out credit. My wife lost her job. We immediately went to a very rude credit canceller that told us to stop eating steaks every night and that a follow up visits would cost us $100. Oh she also said that she could not help us with our credit card payments because she could see by our records that we were already getting the best rates those cards would provide us.

We swallowed our pride and talked to bankruptcy lawyer. We told him about my wife’s job loss and the rude experience at the credit cancelling agency. If I remember correctly, he only asked for $500 or $600, if we had any department store credit cards, rented or owned, and about our car or other property.

No department store branded cars such as Sears, we rented, one car that still owed on, and no other property. He said we would be fine and we were. Through bankruptcy we discharged all our debt, expect for the car loan because we wanted/needed to keep our one car, and my student loan because it could not be discharged.

My wife went to college… The only negative thing that happened to us because of the bankruptcy was that when we needed to get a new car we had an 11% loan. After a couple of years I refinanced to a lower rate saving $100 per month in payments on only adding 2-3month of payments.

The key to all this and my point for posting this is that we had no missing or late payments. We only stopped making payments to our creditors when our lawyer told us to. Yes, if we had waited one more month to talk to a lawyer in the first place, we would have missed payments and things would have been very different.

To this day it has always been my policy to tell anyone that asks me the minute you know you can no longer make any future payments on your debts talk to a credit canceller and lawyer before you miss the first payment. Because if you decide to pursue bankruptcy your lawyer may tell you when to stop making payments and what to say to creditors and as in our case even to have them contact our lawyer. Our lawyer told us that once bankruptcy is officially started they can no longer individually ding your credit.

We only ever had one bad mark on our credit report. Most people seem to wait till they have months or years of missed payments. It’s not about beating the system, it’s about being finically savvy enough to know when it’s the right time to follow a credit canceller’s advice or look into bankruptcy with a lawyer. We just got lucky.

I say always open communications with both and then make the right decision for your circumstances. The myth that bankruptcy is bad or painful only persists because it takes too long to swallow are pride and do the right thing and the banks and financial services we own money to have it there interests to make us believe bankruptcy is unlawful and makes use losers.

Bankruptcy is your right. And if you can’t pay your debts regardless of reason it is your responsibility to file for bankruptcy. It’s more immoral not to file bankruptcy when you know you really should. Talk to an appropriate credit cancelling service and a bankruptcy lawyer and make the right decision for your circumstances.

Keep in mind it is and always be in your creditor’s interest to tell you bankruptcy is the wrong thing to do. Bankruptcy is not a crime; it’s a financial tool.

It is not a crime or unlawful to be a serial bankruptcy filer. Many businesses have filed for bankruptcy protections several times over the years? If it was wrong to be a serial filer then all business would only ever be allowed to file for bankruptcy protection once in their life times.

I have only ever filed once for bankruptcy and do not plan to do it ever again, but if I find myself in a place where I can not pay my debts again and my only choice is bankruptcy then it would be immoral for me not to do it. When in any sense of anyone’s imagination would it be morally expectable to continue to imply to your creditors that you will be able to pay next month or next year when you know that is not the case.

More people need to understand that bankruptcy is a business tool and people are allowed to use it and unless the laws change for both businesses and people you can file for it anytime you need. It is lawful part of our financial system.

Through their own strong arm actions creditors have continually sent a clear message that unless you file for bankruptcy they have cause to reasonably believe that you are able to pay debts.

If you truly cannot pay your debts the only moral and legal action you can take to accurately communicate your financial situation to your creditors is through bankruptcy protection. Calling them and telling them you lost your job last month and only had two month emergency founds and it looks like it might be months before you find a new job does not tell them you can not pay your debts. All it tells them is that you are a risk, too raise your rates, and to add all sorts of extra fees to your account because you have no money to fight against them. Every fee and charge they tack to you account is an asset to them even if you will never pay it.

They actually make money buy being told that you can’t pay your debts through missed payments. They don’t make money by being told you filed for bankruptcy. They kind of have to discharge that debt since they were legally notified.

Unless the politicians, banks, and creditors get off their butts the best way to clear debt from our current system may be for the small guys to start legally notifying through bankruptcy that they can no longer pay their debts anymore. This has the effect of actually removing your unplayable debt from the system and stoping anyone from actually listing it as an asset on their books.

I know its not that simple, but they do make money off you when you don’t file for bankruptcy.

Irresponsibility - No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood.

Despair.com

Insolvent - It’s too late for the pebbles to vote, the avalanche has already started.

Kosh

Great story.
When a lender charges a 29 percent interest rate they are dooming a borrower to fail.
I have mete several people who were comfortably handling 10 percent or lower interest rates - and the bank was making money - but when the rate tripled yes they defaulted.
And the banks lost money, and deserved to.

Any interest north of 5 percent is predatory Jewish usury and should be banned but the Judeo Christians are now no better and have no concept of morality and ethics any more.

This is great! Once I received a credit card from Citi bank after they pestered me to sign up and it wasn't even in my name. I flew around the world and spent up to the limit and never bothered paying a cent. What a bunch of arseholes. It wasn't anyone elses name either just in case you think I dropped someone in the shit.

You know I would have a conscience about this but I feel great having done it. I would never do it to a friend or a private lender but corporates are fair game. I just regret the limit wasn't double. If I get to do it again I will with great gusto and I would take it beyond the limit until they cut me off.

Seriously some people that have commented negatively on this blog have ethical or moral issues about this subject. I want to tell you there are no moral or ethical values in a banking corporation. Lets say that again. "There are no moral or ethical values in a banking corporation". They will take your first born and hack them to pieces in front of you if it wasn't bad publicity.

Play their game - it's just that - a game - make sure you on the winning side

http://patrick.net/?p=25968
As commoners – WE ARE AT A CROSS-ROAD - which only a few intelligent people such as Vincent and msmonroe etc, have any understanding – ergo : THE ENTIRE BANKSTERING SYSTEM IS A LEVERAGED PONZI CASINO by design from the get-go. FINANCIAL TSUNAMI's are heading-in - WAKE-UP or DIE.

Just in case you were sleeping for the last 30 years, or too young to have paid attention –BANKSTERS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE BEEN IN PROCESS TO CRASH THE SYSTEM TO STEAL WHAT IS LEFT OF YOUR PERSONAL PROPERTY, LAND AND RIGHTS – aka : nationalizing Fannie, Freedie and Ginnie.
Never heard of MARTIAL LAW ?? – you will be very soon !!

What most COMMONERS FAIL TO COMPREHEND IS – we have never been more empowered to flip the entire equation 180 degrees in our favour by rebuking political/bankstering charades in one fell swoop. Begin by making survival preparations, liquidate as many assets as you can NOW - while there are still suckers willing to pay for useless items nobody will want next year, SELL YOUR HOUSE ASAP, increase loans and MAX-OUT ALL credit cards – buy 6 month supplies, bullets AND as much SILVER as possible–THEN follow instructions from 1st lady Nancy Reagan: JUST SAY NO TO BANKSTERING POLITICIANS !!

For those not paying attention to the news, thousands of multi-millionaires living in gated La Jolla California mansions – stopped paying their mortgages 2 or 3 years ago – AND THEY ARE STILL IN THEIR HOMES. Average time to foreclose is approx 600 days – SO STOP PAYING AND STAY WHERE YOU ARE AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, using your time & money preparing to go RV camping VERY SOON. There are another 12-14 MILLION more Option Arm Mortgages about to default before 2013 - which makes it moot your house will be worth 10% of what it may have been worth at the top in 2007.

What amazes me the most is : For inexplicable reasons – COMMON SHEEPLE ARE JUST TOO STUPID TO READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL (STREET JOURNAL) – always fail to comprehend EVERY housing market crash was invented & managed TO MAXIZE PROFITS FOR BANKSTERING & CORPORATE ELITE PSYCHOPATHS – WHO IN TURN FUND YOUR NEXT PSYCHO PRESIDENT TO WAGE OIL CONRTOL WARS.

The smartest 5% of Bankstering psychopaths began intentionally engineering this latest housing market crash back in approx 2002 - when they invented MERS - (Mortgage Electronic Registration System). MERS enable psychopaths to expedite mortgage registrations - WITHOUT PHYSICAL DOC’s - such that they could quickly process toxic assets into bundles of MBS (Mortgage Backed Securities) and CDO’s (Collateralized Debt Obligations) – which they duped suckers all over the world into buying - by bribing Moodys, Standard & Poor, Fitch et al to give AAA ratings to PURE SHIT. MERS had a few additional features – which contemporaneously gave all the psycho’s `plausible deniability’ - enabling them to evade culpability, gross negligence & malfeasance for fraud etc. – while Hank Paulson and the boys from Goldman Sachs threatened Congress with Martial Law to blindly sign over TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to bail-out the TOO BIG TO FAIL BANKSTERS – WHO THEN DIVERTED MOST OF THE $$$ DIRECTLY INTO THEIR OWN POCKETS with MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR BONUS`s - AS A FINAL SLAP G-BYE ON THE FACE OF TAXPAYERS - WHO WERE LIED-TO AND CHEATED OF FINANCIAL FUTURES.

Not one person mentioned the fact - no matter how many U$ mortgages fail - this will not affect any of the banksters - BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE ALL THE MONEY. Obviously those crying for banksters are completely stupified by ALL facts : EVERY PSYCHO-PATHETIC BANKSTERING CEO KNEW the toxic MBS & CDO`s they sold to investors as AAA - WERE ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED TO FAIL BY DESIGN from the GET-GO - WHICH WAS WHY THEY CREATED PROCESSES TO QUICKLY SELL ALL THIS CRAP TO RETIREE INVESTORS AROUND THE WORLD ASAP- MAKING TRILLIONS IN PROFITS - FOR THEM !!

EVEN BETTER, THESE SAME BANKSTERS TOOK THE TRILLIONS THEY MADE SELLING MBS AND CDO's AND BOUGHT CDS`s (Credit Default Swaps) –SHORTING RETIREMENT AND PENSION FUNDS ALL OVER THE PLANET - TO CAPTURE TRILLIONS MORE PROFITS + ANOTHER HUGE WINDFALL PROFIT SHARE OF THE $23 T BERNANKE FLOATED OUT IN TARP + QE TO INFINITY - ET AL.

For MINDLESS UNWASHED MASSES and COMMON SHEEPLE who cannot do the math – please allow me to succinctly reduce this into an equation your beady little minds may still be able to comprehend – to explain why you should immediately make plans to opt-out ASAP. The Banksters you cry “ethical” crocodile tears, with “integrity” stains on your Sunday best – MADE Trillions in profits initially writing SUB-PRIME (BORROWER) mortgages + Trillions more profits writing OPTION ARM MORTGAGES, + Trillions more profits bundling pure crap as if AAA investments in derivative markets per MBS and CDO’s, + Trillions more profits shorting sucker investors who bought toxic MBS & CDO’s, + Trillions more profits from TARP, QE to INFINITY and NONE OF THEM ARE IN JAIL !!! WAKE THE F$$K-UP !!

Conclusion : Whether by design or error, MM either did the right thing or just happened to GET LUCKY.

For the rest of the SUCKERS, SHEEPLE and DEBT SLAVES posting on this site - keep those bankstering chains locked around your STUPID necks - CONTINUE slaving to pay your mortgages, credit cards, car and student loans, income and property taxes - BECAUSE YOU JUST COULD NOT SLEEP IF ANY OF THE BANKSTERS MISSED A MEAL OF CAVIAR AND CHAMPAIGNE -while you continue eating PURE SHITE !!

As a final parting SHOT - please keep in mind - THE LONGER AmeriKKKan IDIOTS CONTINUE PAYING ALL THESE FABRICATED FRACTIONAL RESERVE DEBTS AND TAXES TO BANKSTERS - THE LONGER YOUR BANKSTERS WILL CONTINUE FUNDING YOUR MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX –AND YOUR PSYCHOPATHIC POLITICIANS WILLCONTINUE SENDING YOUR BROTHERS, SISTERS, CHILDREN AND PARENTS OFF TO MIDDLE EAST KILLING FIELDS – AS CANON FODDER AND WASTE LEFT BEHIND TO BE SHUNNED AT HOME - ALL AT THE BEHEST OF PROFITEERING BANKSTERS, MIC AND OIL CARTELS.

The next time you see coffins draped in flags, read about thousands of soldiers committing suicide after returning from the ME, and see soldiers return bloodied, battered, with arms, legs and eye-balls missing, poisoned with Depleted Uranium, psychologically ahttered by PTSD, bankrupt, ADDICTED, TREATED LIKE SHIT BY YOUR VETERANS AFFAIRS, unable to work or fit into cherished FALSE illusions of insane AmeriKKKan Dreams– TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK IN THE MIRROR- knowing you could have prevented this carnage by WAKING-UP, liquidating, making survival plans– then JUST SAY NO !!

Sleep safely and proud in your tidy rooms at night - KNOWING YOU CAN WASH THE BLOOD OFF YOUR HANDS FROM DEFENSELESS CIVILIANS & CHILDREN BLOWN TO BITS BY UAV DRONES LAST WEEK, and have a nice day listening to BULLSHIT MSM news, Dancing with the Stars, driving your Hum-V, and patriotically waving stupid little red, white & blue flags – YOUR Walmart POLITICIANS IMPORT FROM CHINA !!!

Sell assets, buy supplies, bullets, silver, AND REPEAT Nancy`s prescient MANTRA : JUST SAY NO.

Peter Carson
cansteel1978@yahoo.ca

An old bromide to keep in mind :

Gold is the money of kings, silver of gentlemen, barter for peasants, and debt is of SLAVES.

Do your part to CRASH THE ENTIRE FIAT BANKSTERING/POLITICAL SYSTEMS - JUST SAY NO !!

ps : NEVER, EVER ATTEND ANY PROTEST RALLYS FOR ANY REASON OR CAUSE WHATSOEVER - unless you like being clubbed, pepper sprayed, or seek adventure being herded into crowded jail cells, desire being charged criminally as terrorists, have no concern about being allowed to leave the country ever again, and or have no problem paying tens of thousands of dollars to scumbag psycho lawyers to plea bargain a 2 year sentence for civil disobedience, insurrection or trumped-up treason charges. Uncle $am didnt refurbish 100's of FEMA camps for no reason !!

Rather than wastefully expending energy making placards, marching in the rain and snow, or throwing your money away on lawyers and spending time in jail - PROTEST FROM THE SECURITY AND SAFETY OF YOUR LIVINGROOM - GET TO KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS WHILE PREPARING TO STAND TOGETHER PROTECTING EACH OTHERS BACK DURING INEVITABLE COLLAPSE OF THE ENTIRE ECONOMY - BECAUSE IT IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE TO PRETEND, AVOID OR EVADE.

Financial Armageddon is all around us and upon us - regardless of color, country or continent.
Best of success, and hope to meet you on the other side.

CRASH THE BANKSTERS - BUY PHYSICAL SILVER BARS AND COIN

Peter Carson
cansteel1978@yahoo.ca

This sounds familiar. The Chase stuck me with $40 penalty and interest.
I didn't for some reason receive a bill for the month which they changed
from Washington Mutual to Chase. So I called them thinking they should
forgive me for this one time. They said NO. Not even for the first time.
They said it is my responsibility to keep up the payment. I pay all the
balance every month, and this is what Chase does to me.

Out of anger, I called them three times to their toll free number and
kept them on the phone for a while I got tired of getting pissed off. I
am still pissed.

I thought about going out for a shopping spree of about $10K and default just
out of anger. But I am still looking to buy a house, and I don't want my
credit ruined. So my only recourse is to talk about my incident.

Oh, and one foreclosure I was looking to purchase. I rescind my offer
after learning I had to deal with Chase. I thought about using court
injunction to delay the sale of this property. But I didn't, cause I would
also be wasting my time going to court. I am still thinking about the
ways to screw Chase legally without the risk to me. Maybe it is time
I should just forget about it and just resort to occasional ranting.

Anyone has a good idea to screw Chase, please let me know.

Wow! When I read the title I thought you would be screwing the credit card companies the way I do.... buy everything on it and paying it off in full every month to earn cash reward and being able borrow their money for free.
Honestly, what you did was just plan wrong.

When you buy a lot on credit cards and pay it off every month, you aren't screwing the credit card companies...they make money on the transaction (granted, much of it goes to the primary company -- AMEX, VISA or MC), but Citi, Capital One, Chase or whoever else gets a cut...and make money even if you pay it off every month...

Using credit cards, if anything, screws the merchant. Especially AMEX and rewards cards.

Ok Its' Game time for Chase Bank make your normal payment every month on time pay extra if you can, He is where the game starts pay auto paymnets as many as the the bank will let you of 2.00 each time it cost the bank to take 1.50 or so every time thay run a auto payment of 2 dollors. Millions of people at doing this. We the people need to find the loop holes in there system. and work it so it cost them money.

You are my Hero, you scammed the scammers.

So it looks like you've traded 10k or 20k in equity in a house in mexico and threw a 90k party, in exchange for your good credit in the US?

Why were you laughing all the way to the bank? Because you aren't in jail? It seems like you are gloating in the original post.

Personally I'd rather have good credit in the country I live and work in. What happens now if you need to borrow money for an emergency?

I guess its just a question of values, to each their own.

you didn't get away with anything.

Not listing the house in Mexico was bankruptcy fraud.

Not disclosing the transfers to your wife's account was bankruptcy fraud.

You are a criminal.

could do the dude maybe have chosen a credit card that didn't jump to 29 percent on "the first day" of default?

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Banking/CreditCardSmarts/Your5MinuteGuideToCreditCards.aspx

"Protect me protect me protect me"--from myself.

I see it as follows;

personal responsibility vs. 31% usury credit cards. Yeah, nobody should live beyond their means. BUT...anybody who says "you deserve it" when the CC company violates You is just not realistic

The system has been screwing you for years and you sheep post hate statements against a victim of the system designed to screw you. lol wake up idiots, the banks were the ones that inflated real estate with their no income no asset 100% financing loans and then top it off with a 1% payment schedule. All that did was increase prices through the roof and allowed the the economic disaster. The banks are the poster child of our economic crisis not public that "lied" on their applications. How stupid to believe otherwise. They were told to lie and they were suckered into loans they did not fully understand the consequences of and were feverishly driven to BUY BUY BUY before it's sold! Now the banks want to blame it on the consumer they created. Can't wait to cash out all my credit cards and stick a finger up in BK court after I return from a long vacation.

I really hate how this thread keeps coming back to life.

Shame on me for bumping it back up.

cdw7503 says

Corporate communism is the result of people pursuing unrelenting personal self interests. And then people and corporations justify their actions by saying it was for the public good (corporate) and by playing the victim (personal) as MM did with his example. Both actions by big corporations and individuals are taken without regard to the right and wrong of such actions in a communist system.

The federal government only reflects the lack of moral convictions that our electorate possesses, and as a result our elected officials have allowed the corporations to grow without controls and without failure.

Capitalism without failure will eventually lead to communism or socialism. In essence, we have become here in the US at least partially a communist state.

Actually, you realize this country is all F_cked up, but your conclusion is incorrect. What you describe is more closely defined as fascist corporatism. In short, one of the most notorious of them all defined it most succinctly "Fascism should more appropriately be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini

What we find ourselves in is the solidifying of the fascist/corporatist system. Heck, the Supreme Court of the US has declared that now Corporations have the same rights as humans do, and one can easily argue that corporations and those who lead them possess far more rights than humans.

The great unraveling has just begun. The upcoming civil unrest and complete financial collapse has its underpinning in these comments. What is happening? Easy, the contract was broken. The corporation ideal was that the worker was loyal to the corporation and held secure by the corporation for this same very loyalty. Give and take. This social contract slowly eroded and is now for all practical purposes defunct. The corporation has long neglected its half of the bargain. It was helped along by both the right and left but obviously more from the far right. Folks are slowly waking up to the reality that has long since been present. Namely, the corporation is vested with huge government powers and is allowed to run amok and given carte blanche to NOT follow the rule of law or rules of any kind. Now, a few have started playing by the same rule book as is clearly illustrated by MalcombMichigan.

Yes, the corporatist fascist system only works when the passive subjects allow the corrupt economic and merged corportist political consolidation to go unchallenged. It falls apart very quickly when the body politic realize that they have been on the losing side of this contract for decades and that they will now play from the same corrupt playbook as MM has done.

People get pissed at MM, not because he has done anything anymore wrong than the owners of the great corporate and political wealth, but because they have been brainwashed into this type of mindf_ck. Love the corp./ and corp government and hate the one who challenges the lawlessness and corruption with equal force.

From this perspective, I give MM an A-. All is fair in the game of love and war. The corp and most on the right wing/some on the left, now including even Obama, have pushed it too far. When a large enough faction of working stiffs wake up, the party is over. The invites have been sent. RSVPs trickling in....The party is just getting started. Enjoy if you can. It ain't going to be pretty.

Um... bankruptcy has changed significantly since the 2005 reforms. I wouldn't advocate to fake that you cannot pay bills in order to do it. Before the reforms it could be done..now it's not nearly the same thing. Chapter 7 is now up to a judge to declare. In addition there are a increasing number of employers that perform credit checks for terms of employment. Some states are blocking this but they can get away with in some areas

Interesting read. Even though I agree it's just a contract and morality doesn't enter into it I don't condone what MM did. I was pretty savvy about money all my life and still found myself in $40 K in cc debt last year. Four years ago the person I was married to slammed our 7 year old daughter's head against the wall one night in a fit of rage when she got up to get her blanky. In one instant my verbally and emotionally abusive marriage ended because I had to protect our children from their out of control father. Unfortunatly just before the abuse escalated I had given in to his pressure and left my highly paid engineering job (where I made more money than him) He convinced me to do it b/c he would be happier and less angry - also our investments were doing well and we could afford it. Using the money from his well off family he lawyered up and we spent four years litigating. Absent physical wounds nobody believes abuse happens - even though the child reported it to her teacher the next day. I did what many divorce litigants in my position do - after I couldn't find another job I started living on credit cards and using the money I did have to pay attorneys and other divorce industry bottem feeders. After four years of this I racked up a big cc debt even though I was careful and did a lot of the work myself. I am actually proud that I 'only' spent $40K compared to the nearly $200K he ended up spending to destroy me. Needless to say, it was very demoralizing to be so far in debt after having been careful with money my whole life but in the last year I have managed to pay off 2/3 and am hacking away at the rest.

Since I had been one half of a high income couple I had access to lots of credit during the first year of my divorce and I looked at every credit card offer I got, opening several cards, I took out credit lines and juggled payments for several years. Now my credit is trashed (dropped over 100 points) but to me none of that matters. What matters is that my children are now living in a safe sane loving household free from abuse. Even though I get why people hate the banks I thank god I had those cards and was able to extract myself from an abusive marriage and protect my kids. Unlike my ex, my family has no money to give me and without credit I would have been toast in the legal system. Had I not been able to hire attorneys and pay for custody evaluations there is an excellent chance the kids would be living with their still angry/still abusive dad and they'd be having the same miserable childhood that he had with his abusive dad. My access to credit is giving my children a happy childhood and that's priceless.

Got some homework for you Nomograph:
Google this: [Useful Idiot]

Basically - someone who believes their own BullShit.

I know MacombMichigan personally and I know his story - really, it is not what you think it is.

@ Russell

Children come first! Do what is necessary.

russell says

Even though I get why people hate the banks I thank god I had those cards and was able to extract myself from an abusive marriage and protect my kids.

Russell, good for you for making the only sane decision left to you. You would be surprised how many folks would stay in such a situation all due to poor cash flow and damn the kids. You should be commended for being what every parent should be, namely, the protector and nurturer of their children.

Of course this also brings up a good point. Very little in the world is black and white or all good or all bad. Credit is much the same.

This guy bragging is a loser. Deadbeats defaulting on credit cards will make responsible people pay more when they need to borrow.
By the way, there is only one safe state in Mexico where you should build. I wonder where you are putting it? Watch out for squatters because guess what? They can keep the place if you are not careful.
Bragging about being irresponsible or screwing a rich bank or whatever is a sign that you have a screw loose. This is your problem. Good luck with your loose screw down in Mexico.
Full Disclosure: I have lived in Mexico, so I know whereof I speak.

clambo says

Deadbeats defaulting on credit cards will make responsible people pay more when they need to borrow.

Bankruptcy reform, thrust upon us in 2006 in order to protect us from those flakes who were ruining the fun of indebtedness for the rest of us, failed to cut interest rates and late fees in general, and - surprise! - boosted the profits of credit card lenders.

See here:

Look especially at sections:

-- 4.2. Credit card late fees and over-limit fees increased while grace periods decreased
-- 4.3. Credit card interest rates and the spread above the risk free rate both increased
-- 4.5. Credit card companies achieved record profits

Thanks Buster and Taint Boil! I try to see that most things in life are neutral and that we can put a negative or positive spin on it. Credit card companies charging 29% interest seems pretty negative (and I know how difficult it is to pay off cards at that rate); On the other hand if those cards can get you out of a bad situation then the good outwieghs the bad. No matter what happens I do try to see it as potentially neutral - that there are both good and bad sides to it - and the choice is mine whether to make it positive or negative experience. This has helped me a lot in RE investing in the past b/c even if I really want a deal to work out just being able to dispassionately look at the negative side helps me stay detached - which I believe leads to better investing results. MM may feel good that he 'stuck it to the CC companies' but he won't be gloating if a Mexican drug cartel gets ahold of him after he moves into his new house.