patrick.net

wbmoran says

Hats off to Patrick and MM for posting this great viewpoint and huge gold stars to Nomograph, Elliemae and all other participants for a great slice through our problems today. At least a few of you have provided a moral light that so many seem not at all concerned about. If the Banks and the Goverment is full of slimebags must we all be? They set no example for correct moral behavior so we are left to our own devices. Personal integrity still matters, no matter how much money one has in the bank and shame to those who don’t recognize it.

My grandparents taught me that it's dishonorable to not pay your bills. If you don't pay a credit card payment, somewhere down the line someone can't eat. Of course, it's not that simple, but applying that concept in all my dealings has made it easier for me in the long run. I've had some very rough times, hopefully they're in the past but you never know. I do know that I will continue to try to honor my family and live to my values. If I ever do file bankruptcy, it will be because of circumstances well beyond my control and not because I was proud to have screwed the system.

Perhaps honesty, ethics & morals aren't someone else's forte. I get that. But bragging about it invites people who disagree. The OP wanted attaboys, and imho came to the wrong place for them.

dont_getit says

I personally think only the people who met with unfortunate events(widowed, health issue etc) should be allowed to bankrupt. All others, they should keep paying the price long, so they can teach their kids to be responsible.

We don't apply this standard to banks and corporations, we give them all kinds of handouts and do-overs when they are in a hole. Why apply this harsh standard to individuals? If we "lead by example" it must start from the top. The Bankruptcy Act of 2005 does precisely what you say, tries to make sure NO CITIZEN ESCAPES their debts. In fact it seems to be backfiring. The law of unintended consequences applies.

We already pay a war tax. We call it an income tax but it's a war tax. Notice how we've never really not been at war since it was invented or made permanent. Something always comes up to keep the corportate voters in California happy. I know, that's not fair because by now that virus has spread to the entire country.

Okay, I'm adding one more thing, but because I do pay all my obligations, so internet time is of essence. The banks of today (deregulation/ I think Reagan) and credit card companies prey on people like mm. They don't prey on people like Nomo and me, but Nomo where you and I differ is that I don't see people like mm 100% percent responsible the first time around. And, once he got into trouble I'm glad his pride took a back seat and he decided he could work it out less screwed than more morally correct. (Especially since he contacted them when he first lost his job) Suzy Orman has been saying for years that you should dump on your unsecured credit cards to keep your house, I respect that advice because anyone in the industry knows that the banks/credit card companies will slime anyone susceptible. As for all the upstanding, morally in tact who have worked hard and never had a problem, I'm glad your retirement and savings wasn't tied to Enron...the peak of the corporate iceberg we have hit. And, yes before Enron there really was a Santa and all Americans were solvent and our financial morality was in tact.

MM, with all due respect, if any of your creditors could trace this post to you, they may be inclined to attempt to bring you up on fraud charges. The fact that you "Deposit[ed] some of this money into [your] sister-in-laws account in Mexico." Makes it sound as if you knew full well that you had not intention of paying the money back, and attempted to hide it in advance of your bankruptcy. Certainly, that may not be the case, nor I am trying to say that it is. I am simply pointing out that the way your initial point comes across, such an argument could be made.

Best of luck in Mexico.

EastCoastBubbleBoy says

Makes it sound as if you knew full well that you had not intention of paying the money back, and attempted to hide it in advance of your bankruptcy

The original post was written in haste and with cynicism and sarcasm. Nothing was illegal. Nothing was planned. All monies were moved a year or two before the bankruptcy. No laws were broken. All the money would have been paid back if the condo in the story was sold and if the stock market didn't crash. I lost over 25k just in the market - probably all went to Government Sacks. All the debt was "covered" +/- 10k.

I make mistakes and fail and I am tossed into the wood chipper feet first. The million dollar a year Banksters fail and it is just business as usual.

Bank Failure Friday Roars Back: Six Banks Fail, Costing FDIC $2.6 Billion

MacombMichgan says

dont_getit says

I dont understand why you were laughing all the way to the bank

The debt would be impossible to pay back at the rates the banks were charging – not possible. I am laughing because I am trying to understand the logic the banks are using. I have read many stories about the same situation. People can’t pay when the payment triples. If they didn’t raise the rates maybe people could pay because it IS possible. What is their strategy, to make it impossible to pay? What is the logic?

Honest I can't say I blame you, I might have done the same thing myself. I'm not thrilled about the level of debt you gotten yourself into, but you were making the payments. It wasn't until the credit card companies universally decided to shaft you that you decided to shaft them. Honestly I don't know where there logic is. My guess is they did a cost/benefit analyst and found that when they raise the interest rate to 29% that enough people continued to pay to cover the people that defaulted on there Credit Cards. If everyone universally defaulted on there cards when they raise the rate, you can sure as hell bet they wouldn't do it.

Interesting enough, in most states, cap interest rates at 42%, any more than that, it's considered Loan Sharking. In Japan the rate is set at 29.2%.

This post shows how a minor event can trigger a person's financial collapse if they have a high debt level. A similar thing happened to me... lender misplaced a check I sent for a business line of credit pay down. I sent another with clear instructions to not cash the first. They cashed both, one check bounced, the lender gave no consideration and closed the account without warning. Without the ability to carry employees through the off-season I eventually had to lay everyone off and close the business. Now the lender is coming after me personally and I will declare bankruptcy if necessary. Wells Fargo by the way - one of the recipients of taxpayer bailout money.

Banks have no morals. Borrowers are at a distinct disadvantage if they moralize. I am in Professor Brent White's court - think the same way as the banks.

"Playing by the rules is obviously for suckers like me"

You aren't a "Sucker" for playing by the rules. Just don't get too far into the game. If you're one of the dwindling few that still have a conscience, you'll be able to look in the mirror and feel ok; you'll sleep at night; people (who count) will talk about you with respect and admiration--when you're not around (the people who don't count will despise you for having honesty, integrity and the admiration they'll never receive)..

We've eroded into an increasingly narcissistic, lazy, sociopathic culture. TV makes me sick. It's a non-stop ad blitz for loans, cars, homes, toys, clothes and other wallet emptying scams. Bread and circuses. There are those who can be brought back from the abyss, but its going to take some serious pain first to open eyes IMO. Unfortunately, many who seek high levels in politics and business are pretty scary critters...they don't give a s**t about long term...its all about the short term bottom-line and sticking it to the other guy.

Keep the faith. Your integrity is worth more than selling your soul.

DOC

"21. Soon all other cards raise their rates to 29%.
22. Panic for about 1 minute.
23. Reduce my hours at work and stop all payments to all credit cards and condo.
24. File for bankruptcy.
25. Return security deposit I received from my condo tenants and tell them to live there rent free for as long as they can.
26. Bankruptcy finished (about $90,000.00 debt erased). Increase hours at work. Continue building house in Mexico.
27. Laughing all the way to the bank."

Even a child can glean from your post that you're seriously lacking in integrity. To borrow so much money against credit cards speaks volumes. To engage in such spurious transactions wreaks of irresponsible, unaccountable laziness.

For ANYONE to assert that these traits are limited to their incredibly lame financial acumen is wishful thinking. I pity those who get close enough to such people and discover what they're all about. If they're smart they'll RUN.

God forbid one actually SAVE first then buy something...

Laughing all the way to the bank you say? Clearly, 29% credit card rates is insane, but still, the only laughing I can fathom is others laughing at you behind your back when you try to cry foul--at getting where you got. If you had used your cards the way they should have--you could have paid them on the spot. If you can't pay your cards in full ANYTIME--then don't have credit cards.

DOC

It funny listening to the outrage - all he did was beat them at the game by deciding that it was time to stop playing. The company extended an absurd amount of credit, and in true capitalism, mistakes like that are punished, i.e. he takes a hit to his credit score and the credit card company takes their lumps. Ultimately we need less credit out there, so ideally more events like this would happen until the credit card companies either smarten up or go bankrupt.

For anyone having moral issues with this, remember that they're in it for the money 100%. They are not your friends. Don't forget that aspect.

It funny listening to the outrage - all he did was beat them at the game by deciding that it was time to stop playing. The company extended an absurd amount of credit, and in true capitalism, mistakes are punished. Ultimately we need less credit out there, so ideally more events like this would happen until the credit card companies either smarten up or go bankrupt.

For anyone having moral issues with this, remeber that they're in it for the money 100%. They are nnot your friends. Don't forget that aspect.

MacombMichigan says

I make mistakes and fail and I am tossed into the wood chipper feet first. The million dollar a year Banksters fail and it is just business as usual.
Bank Failure Friday Roars Back: Six Banks Fail, Costing FDIC $2.6 Billion

Don't brag about being a loser, and we shant toss you into the chipper feet first. By the way, it's more like head first, so we don't have to listen to you brag about how you screwed the system. wjm456 says

For anyone having moral issues with this, remeber that they’re in it for the money 100%. They are nnot your friends. Don’t forget that aspect.

Neither is MM - he manipulated the system and brags about it. I would prefer to have friends who I can trust.

I think it's seriously ironic anyone who defends the banks. All the financial problems that we are going through you can attribute to the banks being greedy and finding new ways to screw you out of your money. If you think that fair play is involved you people are serious idiots. The way eveything works in the world is how can I screw you out of your money. People are brought up to think that you must play fair, pay your debts etc, crapola. Thats just what corps and the rich tell the middle class to keep them complacent.

msmonroe says

People are brought up to think that you must play fair, pay your debts etc, crapola. Thats just what corps and the rich tell the middle class to keep them complacent.

I agree people should play fair... when the banks do. When they all jack up there interest rates when you were late on some other bill, that's complete bullshit. Most banks are looking for any excuse to make more $ off of you, if they don't play fair, why should we?

iluv2padl says

This post shows how a minor event can trigger a person’s financial collapse if they have a high debt level. A similar thing happened to me… lender misplaced a check I sent for a business line of credit pay down. I sent another with clear instructions to not cash the first. They cashed both, one check bounced, the lender gave no consideration and closed the account without warning.

A smart person would have issued a stop payment on the first check. Your not dealing with a Mom and Pop outfit there. The person that answers the phone isn't the same person that deposits the checks, they may not even be in the same state. This is partly your own fault.

Credit card companies make their money on the weak. How many of us have had lines of credit cancelled in the past 18 months because we were paid in full? I know I have, and I've got a credit score over 800.

Just to throw a little gas on the fire ......... The laws of nature and survival would put your self-interest above all else.

Professor White says:

Giving up, then, would be bad. Unless, of course, giving up on a debt, i.e. walking away from your mortgage, is the soundest financial decision you can make. Professor White would suggest it is OK—smart even—to give up strategically, when doing so is in your self-interest.

It is amazing how much morality gets brought into debt payment discussions.
What is immoral is that MM had access to $90k of unsecured debt. From the minimal information provided a rational level of unsecured debt for someone like MM would be about $5k. This is an amount that a creditor could lend and re lend to MM forever and have a very good expectation of re payment. Lending sums like $90k to financially unsophisticated people - which is 99.99% of the population - is wrong morally and also just plain stupid. This is like putting a kid in a room with candy and saying that they will have to do an hour of chores for every candy bar two years in the future.

m1ckey6 says

It is amazing how much morality gets brought into debt payment discussions.
What is immoral is that MM had access to $90k of unsecured debt. From the minimal information provided a rational level of unsecured debt for someone like MM would be about $5k. This is an amount that a creditor could lend and re lend to MM forever and have a very good expectation of re payment. Lending sums like $90k to financially unsophisticated people - which is 99.99% of the population - is wrong morally and also just plain stupid. This is like putting a kid in a room with candy and saying that they will have to do an hour of chores for every candy bar two years in the future.

Yea, he's a victim. and stuff.

This is a great way for the man on the bottom of the financial ladder to play the game the same way as those at the top have been doing for so long.

While we all know that we should pay our own bills, the newest regulations and practices by our gov't. leaders and the wealthiest among us says just the opposite.

What is REALLY immoral is that someone who works extremely hard, plans, saves and becomes successful and debt free doesn't understand that his mortgage holder, banker and government gladly and vehemently deny him the same opportunity for extreme wealth they have taken for their own based on his hard work. Or, worse yet, that he thinks did all on his own in the first place.
It really takes a village or system. Not a marketplace.

Unregulated (note this word please) capitalism is a noose around most of our necks and we have the crank to tightening the noose in our hands and we just keep crankin' it harder and harder against ourselves. Our cheerleaders wave Old Glory in support or call for morality whilst we turn blue.

I say kudos to anyone who was brave enough to use the current game to his advantage. Congrats on stepping off the merry-go-round. I'm trying to grow the balls to do it myself.

Wow. what a bunch of whining holier than though do gooders. A bunch of you have been well trained. Dont look massa in the eye boy! Keep your nose to the grindstone and produce for your betters, is the only moral thing to do!
Do any of you have any clue where unsecured debt "money" comes from? NOWHERE. It is a debt incurred in the bank balance sheet backed by the possibility that you will not default. Only the interest and penalties that you pay are real money (based on your labor) the principal is not. The principal is just numbers carried in a balance spreadsheet and insured with credit default swaps that are backed by the federal government with more debts (t-bills) that do not matter because they came from nowhere! Is all pixels on a screen people. Wake the hell up!!!

#28 Drug Lord in Mexico or drug runner more likely turns you in fertilizer and the saying Karma is a Bitch comes to mind! Your family calls the local police and they come investigate and "I see nothing" (said like Sgt. Schultz)

American Express SAYS "PRICELESS"

MacombMichigan says

I make mistakes and fail and I am tossed into the wood chipper feet first. The million dollar a year Banksters fail and it is just business as usual.
Bank Failure Friday Roars Back: Six Banks Fail, Costing FDIC $2.6 Billion

BULL, You posted as if it think you were oh so clever, and screwing the system, Why else would you Deposit a CASH advance in your sisters account, You were clearly posting as if proud of the fact, don't now try and say you covered your debts, your an Blank... period.

Unethical deceitful neighbor.......Would not want you living next to me....No doubt about the cc companies and policy's are certainly a rip off.......having said that.
That does not make you right......or two wrongs do not make a right? This is your analogy apparently. If you don't have the money, then you should not be borrowing from the mafia.

Having gone through bankruptcy over 10yrs ago, I can honestly say that it did not hurt our credit at all; in fact it helped out credit. My wife lost her job. We immediately went to a very rude credit canceller that told us to stop eating steaks every night and that a follow up visits would cost us $100. Oh she also said that she could not help us with our credit card payments because she could see by our records that we were already getting the best rates those cards would provide us.

We swallowed our pride and talked to bankruptcy lawyer. We told him about my wife’s job loss and the rude experience at the credit cancelling agency. If I remember correctly, he only asked for $500 or $600, if we had any department store credit cards, rented or owned, and about our car or other property.

No department store branded cars such as Sears, we rented, one car that still owed on, and no other property. He said we would be fine and we were. Through bankruptcy we discharged all our debt, expect for the car loan because we wanted/needed to keep our one car, and my student loan because it could not be discharged.

My wife went to college… The only negative thing that happened to us because of the bankruptcy was that when we needed to get a new car we had an 11% loan. After a couple of years I refinanced to a lower rate saving $100 per month in payments on only adding 2-3month of payments.

The key to all this and my point for posting this is that we had no missing or late payments. We only stopped making payments to our creditors when our lawyer told us to. Yes, if we had waited one more month to talk to a lawyer in the first place, we would have missed payments and things would have been very different.

To this day it has always been my policy to tell anyone that asks me the minute you know you can no longer make any future payments on your debts talk to a credit canceller and lawyer before you miss the first payment. Because if you decide to pursue bankruptcy your lawyer may tell you when to stop making payments and what to say to creditors and as in our case even to have them contact our lawyer. Our lawyer told us that once bankruptcy is officially started they can no longer individually ding your credit.

We only ever had one bad mark on our credit report. Most people seem to wait till they have months or years of missed payments. It’s not about beating the system, it’s about being finically savvy enough to know when it’s the right time to follow a credit canceller’s advice or look into bankruptcy with a lawyer. We just got lucky.

I say always open communications with both and then make the right decision for your circumstances. The myth that bankruptcy is bad or painful only persists because it takes too long to swallow are pride and do the right thing and the banks and financial services we own money to have it there interests to make us believe bankruptcy is unlawful and makes use losers.

Bankruptcy is your right. And if you can’t pay your debts regardless of reason it is your responsibility to file for bankruptcy. It’s more immoral not to file bankruptcy when you know you really should. Talk to an appropriate credit cancelling service and a bankruptcy lawyer and make the right decision for your circumstances.

Keep in mind it is and always be in your creditor’s interest to tell you bankruptcy is the wrong thing to do. Bankruptcy is not a crime; it’s a financial tool.

It is not a crime or unlawful to be a serial bankruptcy filer. Many businesses have filed for bankruptcy protections several times over the years? If it was wrong to be a serial filer then all business would only ever be allowed to file for bankruptcy protection once in their life times.

I have only ever filed once for bankruptcy and do not plan to do it ever again, but if I find myself in a place where I can not pay my debts again and my only choice is bankruptcy then it would be immoral for me not to do it. When in any sense of anyone’s imagination would it be morally expectable to continue to imply to your creditors that you will be able to pay next month or next year when you know that is not the case.

More people need to understand that bankruptcy is a business tool and people are allowed to use it and unless the laws change for both businesses and people you can file for it anytime you need. It is lawful part of our financial system.

Through their own strong arm actions creditors have continually sent a clear message that unless you file for bankruptcy they have cause to reasonably believe that you are able to pay debts.

If you truly cannot pay your debts the only moral and legal action you can take to accurately communicate your financial situation to your creditors is through bankruptcy protection. Calling them and telling them you lost your job last month and only had two month emergency founds and it looks like it might be months before you find a new job does not tell them you can not pay your debts. All it tells them is that you are a risk, too raise your rates, and to add all sorts of extra fees to your account because you have no money to fight against them. Every fee and charge they tack to you account is an asset to them even if you will never pay it.

They actually make money buy being told that you can’t pay your debts through missed payments. They don’t make money by being told you filed for bankruptcy. They kind of have to discharge that debt since they were legally notified.

Unless the politicians, banks, and creditors get off their butts the best way to clear debt from our current system may be for the small guys to start legally notifying through bankruptcy that they can no longer pay their debts anymore. This has the effect of actually removing your unplayable debt from the system and stoping anyone from actually listing it as an asset on their books.

I know its not that simple, but they do make money off you when you don’t file for bankruptcy.

Irresponsibility - No single raindrop believes it is to blame for the flood.

Despair.com

Insolvent - It’s too late for the pebbles to vote, the avalanche has already started.

Kosh

Great story.
When a lender charges a 29 percent interest rate they are dooming a borrower to fail.
I have mete several people who were comfortably handling 10 percent or lower interest rates - and the bank was making money - but when the rate tripled yes they defaulted.
And the banks lost money, and deserved to.

Any interest north of 5 percent is predatory Jewish usury and should be banned but the Judeo Christians are now no better and have no concept of morality and ethics any more.

This is great! Once I received a credit card from Citi bank after they pestered me to sign up and it wasn't even in my name. I flew around the world and spent up to the limit and never bothered paying a cent. What a bunch of arseholes. It wasn't anyone elses name either just in case you think I dropped someone in the shit.

You know I would have a conscience about this but I feel great having done it. I would never do it to a friend or a private lender but corporates are fair game. I just regret the limit wasn't double. If I get to do it again I will with great gusto and I would take it beyond the limit until they cut me off.

Seriously some people that have commented negatively on this blog have ethical or moral issues about this subject. I want to tell you there are no moral or ethical values in a banking corporation. Lets say that again. "There are no moral or ethical values in a banking corporation". They will take your first born and hack them to pieces in front of you if it wasn't bad publicity.

Play their game - it's just that - a game - make sure you on the winning side

http://patrick.net/?p=25968
As commoners – WE ARE AT A CROSS-ROAD - which only a few intelligent people such as Vincent and msmonroe etc, have any understanding – ergo : THE ENTIRE BANKSTERING SYSTEM IS A LEVERAGED PONZI CASINO by design from the get-go. FINANCIAL TSUNAMI's are heading-in - WAKE-UP or DIE.

Just in case you were sleeping for the last 30 years, or too young to have paid attention –BANKSTERS AROUND THE WORLD HAVE BEEN IN PROCESS TO CRASH THE SYSTEM TO STEAL WHAT IS LEFT OF YOUR PERSONAL PROPERTY, LAND AND RIGHTS – aka : nationalizing Fannie, Freedie and Ginnie.
Never heard of MARTIAL LAW ?? – you will be very soon !!

What most COMMONERS FAIL TO COMPREHEND IS – we have never been more empowered to flip the entire equation 180 degrees in our favour by rebuking political/bankstering charades in one fell swoop. Begin by making survival preparations, liquidate as many assets as you can NOW - while there are still suckers willing to pay for useless items nobody will want next year, SELL YOUR HOUSE ASAP, increase loans and MAX-OUT ALL credit cards – buy 6 month supplies, bullets AND as much SILVER as possible–THEN follow instructions from 1st lady Nancy Reagan: JUST SAY NO TO BANKSTERING POLITICIANS !!

For those not paying attention to the news, thousands of multi-millionaires living in gated La Jolla California mansions – stopped paying their mortgages 2 or 3 years ago – AND THEY ARE STILL IN THEIR HOMES. Average time to foreclose is approx 600 days – SO STOP PAYING AND STAY WHERE YOU ARE AS LONG AS POSSIBLE, using your time & money preparing to go RV camping VERY SOON. There are another 12-14 MILLION more Option Arm Mortgages about to default before 2013 - which makes it moot your house will be worth 10% of what it may have been worth at the top in 2007.

What amazes me the most is : For inexplicable reasons – COMMON SHEEPLE ARE JUST TOO STUPID TO READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL (STREET JOURNAL) – always fail to comprehend EVERY housing market crash was invented & managed TO MAXIZE PROFITS FOR BANKSTERING & CORPORATE ELITE PSYCHOPATHS – WHO IN TURN FUND YOUR NEXT PSYCHO PRESIDENT TO WAGE OIL CONRTOL WARS.

The smartest 5% of Bankstering psychopaths began intentionally engineering this latest housing market crash back in approx 2002 - when they invented MERS - (Mortgage Electronic Registration System). MERS enable psychopaths to expedite mortgage registrations - WITHOUT PHYSICAL DOC’s - such that they could quickly process toxic assets into bundles of MBS (Mortgage Backed Securities) and CDO’s (Collateralized Debt Obligations) – which they duped suckers all over the world into buying - by bribing Moodys, Standard & Poor, Fitch et al to give AAA ratings to PURE SHIT. MERS had a few additional features – which contemporaneously gave all the psycho’s `plausible deniability’ - enabling them to evade culpability, gross negligence & malfeasance for fraud etc. – while Hank Paulson and the boys from Goldman Sachs threatened Congress with Martial Law to blindly sign over TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to bail-out the TOO BIG TO FAIL BANKSTERS – WHO THEN DIVERTED MOST OF THE $$$ DIRECTLY INTO THEIR OWN POCKETS with MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR BONUS`s - AS A FINAL SLAP G-BYE ON THE FACE OF TAXPAYERS - WHO WERE LIED-TO AND CHEATED OF FINANCIAL FUTURES.

Not one person mentioned the fact - no matter how many U$ mortgages fail - this will not affect any of the banksters - BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE ALL THE MONEY. Obviously those crying for banksters are completely stupified by ALL facts : EVERY PSYCHO-PATHETIC BANKSTERING CEO KNEW the toxic MBS & CDO`s they sold to investors as AAA - WERE ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED TO FAIL BY DESIGN from the GET-GO - WHICH WAS WHY THEY CREATED PROCESSES TO QUICKLY SELL ALL THIS CRAP TO RETIREE INVESTORS AROUND THE WORLD ASAP- MAKING TRILLIONS IN PROFITS - FOR THEM !!

EVEN BETTER, THESE SAME BANKSTERS TOOK THE TRILLIONS THEY MADE SELLING MBS AND CDO's AND BOUGHT CDS`s (Credit Default Swaps) –SHORTING RETIREMENT AND PENSION FUNDS ALL OVER THE PLANET - TO CAPTURE TRILLIONS MORE PROFITS + ANOTHER HUGE WINDFALL PROFIT SHARE OF THE $23 T BERNANKE FLOATED OUT IN TARP + QE TO INFINITY - ET AL.

For MINDLESS UNWASHED MASSES and COMMON SHEEPLE who cannot do the math – please allow me to succinctly reduce this into an equation your beady little minds may still be able to comprehend – to explain why you should immediately make plans to opt-out ASAP. The Banksters you cry “ethical” crocodile tears, with “integrity” stains on your Sunday best – MADE Trillions in profits initially writing SUB-PRIME (BORROWER) mortgages + Trillions more profits writing OPTION ARM MORTGAGES, + Trillions more profits bundling pure crap as if AAA investments in derivative markets per MBS and CDO’s, + Trillions more profits shorting sucker investors who bought toxic MBS & CDO’s, + Trillions more profits from TARP, QE to INFINITY and NONE OF THEM ARE IN JAIL !!! WAKE THE F$$K-UP !!

Conclusion : Whether by design or error, MM either did the right thing or just happened to GET LUCKY.

For the rest of the SUCKERS, SHEEPLE and DEBT SLAVES posting on this site - keep those bankstering chains locked around your STUPID necks - CONTINUE slaving to pay your mortgages, credit cards, car and student loans, income and property taxes - BECAUSE YOU JUST COULD NOT SLEEP IF ANY OF THE BANKSTERS MISSED A MEAL OF CAVIAR AND CHAMPAIGNE -while you continue eating PURE SHITE !!

As a final parting SHOT - please keep in mind - THE LONGER AmeriKKKan IDIOTS CONTINUE PAYING ALL THESE FABRICATED FRACTIONAL RESERVE DEBTS AND TAXES TO BANKSTERS - THE LONGER YOUR BANKSTERS WILL CONTINUE FUNDING YOUR MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX –AND YOUR PSYCHOPATHIC POLITICIANS WILLCONTINUE SENDING YOUR BROTHERS, SISTERS, CHILDREN AND PARENTS OFF TO MIDDLE EAST KILLING FIELDS – AS CANON FODDER AND WASTE LEFT BEHIND TO BE SHUNNED AT HOME - ALL AT THE BEHEST OF PROFITEERING BANKSTERS, MIC AND OIL CARTELS.

The next time you see coffins draped in flags, read about thousands of soldiers committing suicide after returning from the ME, and see soldiers return bloodied, battered, with arms, legs and eye-balls missing, poisoned with Depleted Uranium, psychologically ahttered by PTSD, bankrupt, ADDICTED, TREATED LIKE SHIT BY YOUR VETERANS AFFAIRS, unable to work or fit into cherished FALSE illusions of insane AmeriKKKan Dreams– TAKE A LONG HARD LOOK IN THE MIRROR- knowing you could have prevented this carnage by WAKING-UP, liquidating, making survival plans– then JUST SAY NO !!

Sleep safely and proud in your tidy rooms at night - KNOWING YOU CAN WASH THE BLOOD OFF YOUR HANDS FROM DEFENSELESS CIVILIANS & CHILDREN BLOWN TO BITS BY UAV DRONES LAST WEEK, and have a nice day listening to BULLSHIT MSM news, Dancing with the Stars, driving your Hum-V, and patriotically waving stupid little red, white & blue flags – YOUR Walmart POLITICIANS IMPORT FROM CHINA !!!

Sell assets, buy supplies, bullets, silver, AND REPEAT Nancy`s prescient MANTRA : JUST SAY NO.

Peter Carson
cansteel1978@yahoo.ca

An old bromide to keep in mind :

Gold is the money of kings, silver of gentlemen, barter for peasants, and debt is of SLAVES.

Do your part to CRASH THE ENTIRE FIAT BANKSTERING/POLITICAL SYSTEMS - JUST SAY NO !!

ps : NEVER, EVER ATTEND ANY PROTEST RALLYS FOR ANY REASON OR CAUSE WHATSOEVER - unless you like being clubbed, pepper sprayed, or seek adventure being herded into crowded jail cells, desire being charged criminally as terrorists, have no concern about being allowed to leave the country ever again, and or have no problem paying tens of thousands of dollars to scumbag psycho lawyers to plea bargain a 2 year sentence for civil disobedience, insurrection or trumped-up treason charges. Uncle $am didnt refurbish 100's of FEMA camps for no reason !!

Rather than wastefully expending energy making placards, marching in the rain and snow, or throwing your money away on lawyers and spending time in jail - PROTEST FROM THE SECURITY AND SAFETY OF YOUR LIVINGROOM - GET TO KNOW YOUR NEIGHBORS WHILE PREPARING TO STAND TOGETHER PROTECTING EACH OTHERS BACK DURING INEVITABLE COLLAPSE OF THE ENTIRE ECONOMY - BECAUSE IT IS NO LONGER POSSIBLE TO PRETEND, AVOID OR EVADE.

Financial Armageddon is all around us and upon us - regardless of color, country or continent.
Best of success, and hope to meet you on the other side.

CRASH THE BANKSTERS - BUY PHYSICAL SILVER BARS AND COIN

Peter Carson
cansteel1978@yahoo.ca

This sounds familiar. The Chase stuck me with $40 penalty and interest.
I didn't for some reason receive a bill for the month which they changed
from Washington Mutual to Chase. So I called them thinking they should
forgive me for this one time. They said NO. Not even for the first time.
They said it is my responsibility to keep up the payment. I pay all the
balance every month, and this is what Chase does to me.

Out of anger, I called them three times to their toll free number and
kept them on the phone for a while I got tired of getting pissed off. I
am still pissed.

I thought about going out for a shopping spree of about $10K and default just
out of anger. But I am still looking to buy a house, and I don't want my
credit ruined. So my only recourse is to talk about my incident.

Oh, and one foreclosure I was looking to purchase. I rescind my offer
after learning I had to deal with Chase. I thought about using court
injunction to delay the sale of this property. But I didn't, cause I would
also be wasting my time going to court. I am still thinking about the
ways to screw Chase legally without the risk to me. Maybe it is time
I should just forget about it and just resort to occasional ranting.

Anyone has a good idea to screw Chase, please let me know.

Wow! When I read the title I thought you would be screwing the credit card companies the way I do.... buy everything on it and paying it off in full every month to earn cash reward and being able borrow their money for free.
Honestly, what you did was just plan wrong.

When you buy a lot on credit cards and pay it off every month, you aren't screwing the credit card companies...they make money on the transaction (granted, much of it goes to the primary company -- AMEX, VISA or MC), but Citi, Capital One, Chase or whoever else gets a cut...and make money even if you pay it off every month...

Using credit cards, if anything, screws the merchant. Especially AMEX and rewards cards.

Ok Its' Game time for Chase Bank make your normal payment every month on time pay extra if you can, He is where the game starts pay auto paymnets as many as the the bank will let you of 2.00 each time it cost the bank to take 1.50 or so every time thay run a auto payment of 2 dollors. Millions of people at doing this. We the people need to find the loop holes in there system. and work it so it cost them money.

You are my Hero, you scammed the scammers.