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1   mell   2023 Mar 2, 8:28pm  

That's in line with what the few Ukrainians and Russians I have known so far have been saying. Crimea and Donbass are essentially regions where Russians and people who identify as Russians live. They have wanted independence or joining Russia for many years already, how is this different from the situation in Yugoslavia, Serbia vs Crotia and Kosovo and Montenegro back then? Just negotiate some form of independence for these 2 regions and end this useless war tomorrow!
2   Ceffer   2023 Mar 2, 10:17pm  

Claims in that the reporter is now on Ukraine's hit list.
3   zzyzzx   2023 Mar 3, 6:04am  

mell says

Crimea and Donbass are essentially regions where Russians and people who identify as Russians live.


Weren't those area populated by non-Russians before Stalin moved Russians there? Especially Crimea. I'm not sure about the other two. Presumably any peace treaty will involve expulsions of Russians from these places, and Transnistria, and hopefully a few other places to fix what Stalin did.
4   mell   2023 Mar 3, 7:44am  

zzyzzx says


mell says


Crimea and Donbass are essentially regions where Russians and people who identify as Russians live.


Weren't those area populated by non-Russians before Stalin moved Russians there? Especially Crimea. I'm not sure about the other two. Presumably any peace treaty will involve expulsions of Russians from these places, and Transnistria, and hopefully a few other places to fix what Stalin did.


That could be, I'm not that familiar with its history. Not saying this is their land, just stating what appears to be the current reality, which goes against the mainstream narrative that Putin sent "a few (armed) troublemakers to those regions to stir up shit". It seems like an organic movement a long time in the making.I doubt they can force Russians to leave without war, but they could request concession of making this an independent region which is neutral to both, Ukraine and Russia. Or if it joins, Russia, it should be demilitarized from mid/long range weapons. Ethnicities shift all the time, Yugoslavia also used to be more homogenous, Kosovo not predominantly Muslim etc. But Nato simply forcefully dissolved it on a whim and redistributed the regions to different ethnicities. In this case it's the opposite, the war violence would most likely stop if there were serious talks/negotiations for independence.
5   WookieMan   2023 Mar 3, 8:08am  

mell says

In this case it's the opposite, the war violence would most likely stop if there were serious talks/negotiations for independence.

This is what I don't get as an outsider. Russia could have just negotiated a land deal. Ukrainians love their foreign money. NATO countries knew they wanted the land. It's the dumbest most solvable situation I've ever seen.

Create a NAFTA type agreement. Share in the wealth of the region and Russia gets their warm water port and land. They still have their gas and oil. Get a land bridge to Crimea. Make a deal where you split exports like wheat with the Ukrainians, and Russia pays for infrastructure. Seems like an easy win win proposition. Although I'm no global expert. Makes sense on the back of a napkin.

Fuck it. Kill 100K+ people and have a demographic collapse for the next generation. Likely will be 1M+ by the end of it knowing Europe and Russia. They're morons.
6   clambo   2023 Mar 3, 8:24am  

You could go to some places in Arizona, New Mexico and Texas and most people would claim they were "pro Mexico".
7   RayAmerica   2023 Mar 3, 9:03am  

The peace process begins and ends with *BIDEN.

Early on in the conflict, Ukraine wanted to open negotiations with Russia. BIDEN stepped in and put a stop to that. WHY? Because the conflict was planned as a means to crush Russia by maneuvering them into an attack, which will serve the purposes of creating a totalitarian GLOBAL GOVERNMENT.

*As most thinking people know, Biden, like most Presidents, is nothing other than a propped up spokesman for the elite that are really running things from behind the curtain.
8   zzyzzx   2023 Mar 3, 9:05am  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea

In 1944, Crimean Tatars were ethnically cleansed and deported under the orders of Joseph Stalin, in what has been described as a cultural genocide
The number of Crimea Germans was 60,000 in 1939. Besides the Crimean Germans, Stalin in 1944 also deported 70,000 Greeks, 14,000 Bulgarians, and 3,000 Italians.
9   mell   2023 Mar 3, 9:45am  

WookieMan says

mell says


In this case it's the opposite, the war violence would most likely stop if there were serious talks/negotiations for independence.

This is what I don't get as an outsider. Russia could have just negotiated a land deal. Ukrainians love their foreign money. NATO countries knew they wanted the land. It's the dumbest most solvable situation I've ever seen.

Create a NAFTA type agreement. Share in the wealth of the region and Russia gets their warm water port and land. They still have their gas and oil. Get a land bridge to Crimea. Make a deal where you split exports like wheat with the Ukrainians, and Russia pays for infrastructure. Seems like an easy win win proposition. Although I'm no global expert. Makes sense on the back of a napkin.

Fuck it. Kill 100K+ people and have a demographic collapse for the next generation. Likely will be 1M+ by the end of it k...

NATO and the xiden admin would have never negotiated anything. Russia tried since the 2014 overthrow of the Ukraine by Nuland and installing a corrupt xiden puppet regime. Not saying Putin was justified, he wasn't, but the US warmongers have been egging this on forever, so neither are they. There have been plenty of attempts by Russia to talk about this but they were met with silence. NATO and the US warmongers bear equal responsibility here. Trump would have likely solved this via diplomacy and strength within a few weeks/months.

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