patrick.net

ohomen171 says

Many are old and have lost all. Imagine yourself in a situation like that.

Don't put yourself in that situation?? Live in a place that doesn't have hurricanes? Or have a 2nd home somewhere during hurricane season? The list goes on and on. If you live that close to the coast in FL to get flooded during a hurricane you have the means. I've been to parts of FL when school is in for the kids. Took my kids. The geezers just go eat breakfast, give you side eye because we have kids with us and walk a little and go back home. You can do that in many southern states. FL freezes too. Our Disney World trip was below 30 in the morning in Orlando. So it still gets cold in FL.

AZ, NM, TX and inland AL, MS all come to mind. Still closish to the beach and you can get a house on an inland lake. That's what my dad's uncle did outside Birmingham, AL. I like FL a ton because you're basically 2 hours from a beach worst case. Has cool beach town/cities. I just don't know if I could deal with a coastal direct hit from a hurricane.

It's the building code there. It does nothing for flooding. In addition to hurricane resistant stuff that they already have, how about this:



Or at least build houses with crawl spaces 3 feet high in some places. You get the idea. It's just common sense. Why the fuck does every house in a flood zone have to be a slab house? It's the same in Texas and some other places that like to flood too. That would have helped a lot of people.

Seriously, I'd rather live in a mobile home that's elevated than on a fucking slab house.

Will fed.gov be handing out $$ like candy to these people?

Even something like this would have been acceptable (and this is pretty much what I want in Florida, except even at an elevation over 20'):

I spoke to a friend of mine yesterday. He moved to Florida about 1 year ago. His plan was to take his northeast equity down there and wait for the real estate crash and then buy up some property (he's a realtor). About 3 months ago, when things were still hot, he bought a foreclosure. It was owner occupied. He finally got rid of the "tenant" via hurricane. :)
Now, real estate is deflating(?).

Anyway, he decided not to get insurance on the house until he moved in. Now he's got 4 feet of water and mud in his house.

He hit every branch on the way down to real estate nirvana. Although, I don't think he's going to lose much via flood damage and lack of insurance because he planned on doing some rehab anyway.

Life can certainly be effected by luck...good and/or bad.

GNL says

Will fed.gov be handing out $$ like candy to these people?

Is there any doubt in your mind?

zzyzzx says

GNL says

Will fed.gov be handing out $$ like candy to these people?

Is there any doubt in your mind?

How come I'm the only dumb motherfucker who isn't/hasn't received any fed.gov $$ over the last couple of decades?

Even this is a big improvement over a slab house. And it's probably all that you would need inland a few miles.



https://www.pinoyhouseplans.com/elevated-modern-bungalow-design/

GNL says

How come I'm the only dumb motherfucker who isn't/hasn't received any fed.gov $$ over the last couple of decades?

Nobody was stopping you from fraudulently getting a PPP "loan". You need to learn how to fraud better.

GNL says

Now he's got 4 feet of water and mud in his house.

Where in Florida? Got a link to a the listing?

I have visited Sanibel Island near Fort Myers, and Longboat Key and Anna Maria Island near Sarasota.
I can’t believe that they have trailer parks and flimsy buildings on them.
I noticed that the elevation was about 2 feet above sea level, are they all nuts?
I recall winter of 1982 storm in Santa Cruz when waves were hitting buildings on the wharf.
I was in Capitola that night and was amazed at how high the water got, waves hit the Capitola wharf also.
Of course waves of the Gulf of Mexico are smaller than Pacific Ocean swells, but it’s not too hard to imagine the effect of a 9 foot storm surge on those barrier islands.
I saw new house construction on Jupiter island; it looks like a NYC skyscraper with steel beams, then concrete blocks.
All of the places on the Gulf of Mexico were disasters waiting to happen.

clambo says

I have visited Sanibel Island near Fort Myers, and Longboat Key and Anna Maria Island near Sarasota.

I can't believe that building in barrier islands aren't all elevated. I also wonder why so many vehicles were carelessly left there when everybody knew that a storm was coming.

zzyzzx says

GNL says

How come I'm the only dumb motherfucker who isn't/hasn't received any fed.gov $$ over the last couple of decades?

Nobody was stopping you from fraudulently getting a PPP "loan". You need to learn how to fraud better.

I'll see if I can find it.

clambo says

All of the places on the Gulf of Mexico were disasters waiting to happen.

I can't remember the names of the hurricanes in the late 90's in the Panhandle (Opal? being one I believe). Recovery was generally quick for a Cat 4. I went down for two weeks to help get my parents condo back in shape. We're talking a week after one of them. 2nd floor condo, Navarre Beach, FL.

Biggest problem was infrastructure. Roads were completely washed out. Had to show proof of ownership to get on the island. It was basically off roading to get to the condo. Roof damage (HOA handled that) and some water damage inside. Talking maybe 200 yards to the beach on a barrier island. I miss that place. Was basic, but nice. 2/2 layout. No views, but my dad picked it up for $80kish and sold it for $320k right before the bust.

Anything rebuilt after a hurricane in the states is generally pretty sturdy at this point. But I get insurers are wary of it.

I believe that many of the places were not inhabited; in some towns in Florida almost 1/2 are gone until the weather cools down.
I imagine that’s the case with the owners of some of the boats that got tossed around.
I think it sucks over there, but I didn’t visit in the winter, it’s probably nicer then.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/hurricane-ian-could-cripple-floridas-164500343.html

Hurricane Ian could cripple Florida's home insurance industry

cisTits says

No more building on it again. Then this problem is permanently solved.

Another mostly permanent solution:

zzyzzx says

Another mostly permanent solution:

There's no real winning in the path of a hurricane when it's bad. Elevated houses will survive the storm surge, but will still get blasted through by tornado like winds and horizontal rain. The air pressure differentials squeeze the structures even with the windows sealed and cause implosions/explosions.

My wife's relatives along the areas around New Orleans are inured to the idea that their second and third stilt homes along the coast will be blown to shit, so they put disposable furniture in them and make them re-buildable. Sometimes, they jut try to take the stuff out of them and leave the windows open so that the wind blows through rather than imploding the house. One down year, then a few years of enjoyment until the next 'cane blows them through again.

Slab can be suicide, but elevated home can be survivable if you get stuck. I suppose everybody should have a second place they can go to with the expectation that they should have a rebuilding fund and absentee status. Yeah, it sucks for the poor as usual.

In California, the analog are the beach front homes and the stilted homes dangling from cliffs near fault lines. Nice when Ma Nature is in a good mood, but the usual disasters waiting to happen.

That area of Oakland that has the fires every 30 years or so where the canyon becomes a blast furnace was completely re-built in a few years by housing and building gamblers. It will burn down again, but in the mean time, California dreaming on the fault line.

I talked with a real estate agent from Santa Cruz from after the '89 earthquake. She had a nervous break down and went into inpatient for a while, because she had invested every last cent into a wonderful large home on the cliffs overlooking the water. It slid off during the earthquake, the land itself was largely gone, hasta la vista equities. That is absolutely a predictable outcome, since the beaches are erosive over time, the Pacific is always nibbling away at the coast line. It may come slow, it may come fast, but it will always come.

Not to discount the loss of life and estate here, my prediction is the total impact of Ian will roughly be 50% of what the media blew it up to and Florida will be back up in no time.

ohomen171 says

Not readily apparent is an aspect of the law in Florida concerning flood insurance. If your house or apartment has a roof over 10 years of age, you cannot get flood insurance.

Flood insurance is FEDERAL, States have no say. That "10-year-old roof law" has nothing to do with floods, but rather claims fraud. If a roof is older than ten years, an insurance company can reduce coverage based on a roof’s type and age.

zzyzzx says

GNL says

Now he's got 4 feet of water and mud in his house.

Where in Florida? Got a link to a the listing?

@zzyzzx - I'm pretty sure this is his address...27309 Buccaneer Dr Bonita Springs Florida.
How do I look at a live view of this listing and surrounding immediate area?

cisTits says

My fav:

Mine too.

PMSNBC was reporting 100 deaths.

It's 21 unconfirmed deaths, and knowing that the area has 100k's of people, a third of whom are elderly, we expect a few deaths per day naturally, that is, without a hurricane. Maybe a dozen hurricane related deaths, mostly old people who had strokes or heart attacks but refused to evacuate, so EMTs couldn't reach them in time.

The damage is all political. And Tampa Area is full of Very Blue Retired Midwestern Schoolteachers.

I used to think I wanted a slab foundation but now I'm glad I have a crawl space even though I'm not in a flood zone. Just seems to be more forgiving when water is involved or even in an earthquake.

GNL says

zzyzzx says

GNL says

Now he's got 4 feet of water and mud in his house.

Where in Florida? Got a link to a the listing?

@zzyzzx - I'm pretty sure this is his address...27309 Buccaneer Dr Bonita Springs Florida.
How do I look at a live view of this listing and surrounding immediate area?

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/27304-Buccaneer-Dr_Bonita-Springs_FL_34135_M67398-34696

Flood factor is a 9/10!

Flood Factor is extreme, 9 out of 10
Flood Factor™
This property has a 99.80% risk of flooding over 30 years

You would have to be a total moron to buy a house in a flood zone like that unless the house is elevated

Maybe it's just me but if I was to live anywhere that has huricains, flooding. I'd have a elevated concrete house. I'm surprised some of these areas can be insured, common hazard areas should not be covered especially by taxpayers.

porkchopexpress says

I used to think I wanted a slab foundation but now I'm glad I have a crawl space even though I'm not in a flood zone. Just seems to be more forgiving when water is involved or even in an earthquake.

It's a give and take. I love having a basement here in IL. The square footage is taxed at a lower rate, even fully finished. So a 1,500 square foot house now becomes a 3,000 square house with the basement (at least here) taxed at 50% of above grade space. Also the ability to plumb and run electric or low voltage stuff into the upper part of the house.

But. Along with the extra space there's a lot of other issues to address to make it a workable space. Not sure if it's all places, but we have radon issues in the midwest. So most homes have radon systems to remove it. I kind of feel like it's a racket, but most home in rural IL have them.

Then water is still an issue even with a crawl space or basement. All it takes is some high winds or lightening to knock your power out during a downpour. You don't even need to be near a flood plain. Sump pump is off and with the rain coming down, that ground water even with just a 1-2" rain would flood your basement without power. Probably just an inch or so, but if it's finished space, mold is an issue.

If you do right and you're doing new construction in a non-flood plain, I think a slab is better. As in running piping in the slab to strategic parts of the house during construction for after building additions. You could also do a high peaked roof and make the attic accessible and stand up in it. #1 think for me with slab would be radiant floor heating here in the midwest. You can do it with basements and put it between the joists, but heated concrete is much more efficient.

But then you need a whole home humidifier. So many variables just beyond flooding from say a hurricane or being near a flood plain. In ANY place I'd install an elevated gas (LGN or Propane) generator regardless of what type of base your house sits on. Slab, crawl, basement, stilts/posts, etc. Water is you enemy and you need electric to at least attempt to protect the property in most parts of the country. Plus in a prolonged outage losing all your cold food, at least in my case, would be about a $2k loss with our current cold storage situation. I don't think many people realize how close they are to being starving if shit hits the fan and the power grid gets fucked and their basement is flooding with mold growing everywhere.

True about the sump pump and having backup power. I'm having a commercial dehumidifier installed in my crawl space so that it keeps moisture and mold at bay. I've also had my crawl space encapsulated, and I've taken steps outside the house to divert ground water away from the foundation. No doubt it's work but it seems there are more options to remove water and fix things under the house with a crawl space, but it requires money and/or work.

I feel like with slab that if something goes wrong with the foundation (water, cracks, whatever), it's much more difficult and costly to fix.

Another feature of Florida was the massive insurance fraud of roof repairs; this was enabled by the thousands of sleazy shyster lawyers who also abound in this concrete covered swamp.

This resulted in people having new roofs put on at no cost to them; the lawyers got a fee. Everyone won except the insurance companies got screwed. The result was some insurers said fuckit and others raised their rates.

Flood insurance was something anyone should buy living 1 foot above sea level ON AN ISLAND. Don't buy it, lose your shack.

Those shacks which blew away in the barrier islands had to go sometime, or now or later.

No way would I have hung around Sanibel island if a hurricane were predicted to be coming at me.

GNL says

zzyzzx says

GNL says

Now he's got 4 feet of water and mud in his house.

Where in Florida? Got a link to a the listing?

@zzyzzx - I'm pretty sure this is his address...27309 Buccaneer Dr Bonita Springs Florida.
How do I look at a live view of this listing and surrounding immediate area?

If I must guess, your friend bought it for the land value, not the house. It has waterway to the Bay. These lots are hard to come by. Here’s a comp in the area. This is probably what your friend has in mind once he took possession of the property.

This is one of the things I notice on Patnet. People are quick to jump to conclusions. In real estate, people get paid for solving problems or see potential of an asset. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

https://redf.in/HoJfaU

Booger says

Love it. It’s a fair warning. You loot, we shoot. There are no excuses.

Jeez if I was going to relocate to Florida I'd just rent.

Let the hurricane damage and repair bills be the landlords' problems.

I don't get the frenzy to buy! buy! buy! In recent years different cousins of mine bought homes in Sarasota upon retiring in their 60's.

Jeez.

B.A.C.A.H. says

Let the hurricane damage and repair bills be the landlords' problems.

I don't get the frenzy to buy! buy! buy! In recent years different cousins of mine bought homes in Sarasota upon retiring in their 60's.

Valid point. But you're then at the mercy of the landlord to repair the place. What if they're lazy? At least if you own you can hopefully run to HD and get stuff to start repairs the next day. Landlord might have to do that on 10 properties and every employee they may have is running around fixing their own homes and eventually get to yours.

I personally like the control of ownership. I dislike relying on another human that may not be as productive or handy as myself. Also who knows if the landlord has the $$$ to pay the deductible on their insurance. You could be sitting in a moldy, broken hell hole for 6-12 months before anything gets done.

I trust very few people, even friends in a crunch. My wife is the only one I get a 10 out of 10 score trust wise after 25 years. I don't think I could trust my landlord if shit hit the fan with a property. I also would never rent from a friend or family, that's an easy recipe for the relationship to end.

Ownership has its flaws, but I wouldn't rent unless it's a snowbird (from IL) type setup where I'm in a warm climate during the winter. Even then I'd rather just buy something and vacation rent the place to others while I'm not there.