patrick.net

ThreeBays says

WineHorror1 says

You're way off base. It has to do with others trying to force you to do things you do not want to do. PERIOD. It's called tyranny. Get on board the FREEDOM TRAIN instead of the Soy Boi train.

Having to wear a mask in public is similar to having to wear a seatbelt while driving or smoke 20 feet away from public entrances. Is there something new here from a social or legal point of view?

If I mention FREEDOM, in what delusional world would you think I agree with seatbelts or smoking? Admit it, you hate freedom. Are you scared of making your own choices? Are you an adult yet?

BoomAndBustCycle says

37% drop in Rite Aid profits for cold medicine prove they atleast work for keeping people from getting regular colds and the flu.

More likely less foot traffic in stores and more social distancing such as school closures. School transmissions/children are reservoirs for most colds and flu.

PeopleUnited says

BoomAndBustCycle says

37% drop in Rite Aid profits for cold medicine prove they atleast work for keeping people from getting regular colds and the flu.

More likely less foot traffic in stores and more social distancing such as school closures. School transmissions/children are reservoirs for most colds and flu.

Or Rite Aid just sucks too? Comparing profits like B&B did is kind of retarded. Small restaurants that stayed open in defiance of big brother had record profits. Doesn't mean their food is good though. The good places that close and shut down forever has made us worse. I don't want to eat shit food because they stayed open. Nothing should be closed. Nothing.

ThreeBays says

Maybe you were shouting tyranny and that seat belts kill more people than they save then as well?

No one said that. This is a virus and not a seatbelt. Seatbelts can be regulated and there's data to back up the safety record that prevents deaths in the double digit percentage range. You cannot regulate a virus. It's not possible. You're calling water and fire the same thing. We're talking about a virus, among many, that kills less than 1% of people if you're even in the lucky 3-6% to even get infected. It's math.

https://nationalfile.com/million-maskless-march-planned-for-south-florida-to-protest-for-face-freedom/

ThreeBays says

Glock-n-Load says

If I mention FREEDOM, in what delusional world would you think I agree with seatbelts or smoking? Admit it, you hate freedom. Are you scared of making your own choices? Are you an adult yet?

Boohoo for you then. I value my freedom of not having to breathe your smoke or have your ass fly through my windshield.

Move away from the smoke. Don't drive. Is it all that complicated?

Everything in life involves risk and potential health hazards. If we shut down even 1% of these things we'd all be royally fucked.

I don't go to nursing homes and have seen my mom and MIL substantially less. You make adjustments. I'm not sure your point. You can't shut down the majority for a tiny minority.

Maybe start forbidding gay men from having sex because it can spread HIV. Just think about it and what you're talking about. Covid isn't seat belts....

WookieMan says

ThreeBays says

Glock-n-Load says

If I mention FREEDOM, in what delusional world would you think I agree with seatbelts or smoking? Admit it, you hate freedom. Are you scared of making your own choices? Are you an adult yet?

Boohoo for you then. I value my freedom of not having to breathe your smoke or have your ass fly through my windshield.

Move away from the smoke. Don't drive. Is it all that complicated?

Everything in life involves risk and potential health hazards. If we shut down even 1% of these things we'd all be royally fucked.

I don't go to nursing homes and have seen my mom and MIL substantially less. You make adjustments. I'm not sure your point. You can't shut down the majority for a tiny minority.

Maybe start forbidding gay men from having sex because it can spre...

3 Bays wants to shut down the world because he's scared. Sheesh.

BoomAndBustCycle says

Masks work from my experience... 37% drop in Rite Aid profits for cold medicine prove they atleast work for keeping people from getting regular colds and the flu.

My family have made it a full year without as much as a head cold. Sure social distancing played a role... my kid still does 15-20 hours of competitive sports a week since last summer so we do have exposure to people and groups consistently. Zero illnesses in a full year.. a record for my family for sure!

They do work for illnesses spread via droplets as the droplets don't penetrate the mask and gravity quickly pulls them down. We know that. They don't work for airborne viruses unless N95 and above with a tight fit and no put on or take off during exposure. Even N95/100 only offer moderate protection.

ThreeBays says

WookieMan says

Move away from the smoke. Don't drive. Is it all that complicated?

I want to drive. I don't want to move through your stench. Why do you hate my freedom?

What do you believe gives you the freedom to make laws applicable to limit or stop activities that people do that annoy you? Your freedom?

This entire hoaxdemic is about freedom. Plain and simple.

ThreeBays says

What's more, the "freedom of choice to engage in certain activities" is defined by the Supreme Court to apply to only to certain protected activities: child rearing and education, family relationships, procreation, marriage, contraception, and abortion. Challenges to mandatory seatbelt laws, mandatory helmet laws, etc. have been rejected many times as not fitting within the activities over which one has complete right of choice.

Rubbish. It's about power. We'll be taking it back shortly, simply by default - Leftists don't reproduce.

ThreeBays says

Have you looked at your demographics?

I have and the entire Rio Grande Valley blew up for Trump. Much like most of the rest of the country.

ThreeBays says

Have you looked at your demographics?

Yep. Atheists, Unitarians, Reform Jews, UMC Methodists, Episcopalian Whites all below the replacement rate. Ever walk into one of those churches? It's like an old folks home in there. One lesbian pastor and a sea of greyhairs. Lucky if a couple of bitter 30-something Teachers/Admins with a soyboy husband and poor kid they're torturing with their Trans-Munchausens.

Mormons, Charismatics, Baptists, Amish, Orthodox all well above 2.1 - most 2.5. I think LDS and Hassidics touch 3 kids per woman on average.

And Latin Migrants are 15% Protestant when they arrive, and another 15% Convert, usually to those Shopping Plaza hardcore Fundy Churches.

Gays and Trans generally have one or none, and usually adopted. For every Unitarian Social Worker you might know 3 kids, there's 3 Reform Jewish women with none and will never have any.

Children follow the religion and politics of parents 70% of the time by age 30 (ie don't be cocky that a few Evangelicals leave/experiment with other views in college).

Get ready for a far more religious world. Demography is as close to a guarantee as you can get in the social sciences.

The secularism trend ended about 10-20 years ago. Largely driven by Socialism and the Iron Curtain, places like Russia and Hungary are getting more, not less, religious. It appears the secularism trend in Japan and Korea is ending too.

K-12 and Colleges will have to hire Right, Religious teachers and admins. There won't be enough Leftists for the roles in 20 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2cENue7JxI

MisdemeanorRebel says

There won't be enough Leftists for the roles in 20 years.

I pray to God that you're right!

MisdemeanorRebel says

There won't be enough Leftists for the roles in 20 years.

We don’t have 20 years, the globalists and their woke army will destroy any remaining freedom and prosperity by the end of the decade. If 2020 events concerned you wait till you see 2022, by 2030 this country will be unrecognizable.

The people should have said hell no after the first 14 days to stop the spread BS. Now it’s carry on until it’s gone.

America was founded for the individual NOT the collective. 3 Bays is scared of freedom.

ThreeBays says

lol, the constitution lets us make laws man. And yes, my or should we say the people's freedoms and priorities are valid foundations for the creation of laws that limit activities of others that annoy them (in terms of public health, safety, and welfare).

How do you set rules and regulations for an airborne virus that will never go away? Explain.

I don't think you get what most are saying here. Smoking, ban it indoors. Cool, most would agree that's a good idea. Airborne virus, ban it........... oh wait, you can't. Just like you can't ban fishing by taking all the fish out of the sea. You're comparing buffalo chips to watermelon seeds at this point. There's nothing to do when MILLIONS of people currently have an airborne virus. It's here. Herd immunity is a scientific term. That's what we need. Granny be damned at this point.

Masks CLEARLY do not work as we've seen with the spread of this. Science uses data. The data shows us masks don't work to stop the spread. In fact may increase the spread as we may find out. You know what works to stop AIDS? Less gay sex between men. Maybe we should make that a felony to rid the world of AIDS? We'd be done with AIDS pretty quickly then.

We're going down a dangerous rabbit hole with this. To think otherwise is naive. This is a flu bug, not the plague.

just_passing_through says

I have and the entire Rio Grande Valley blew up for Trump. Much like most of the rest of the country.

For those not in Texas, Rio Grande Valley is 80-90% Hispanic and rural Hispanics voted for Trump in droves. Must be RACISTS!
Also, I am ca. 1% Native American by genetic studies (although of Caribbean origin). Do I get 1% of reparations?

WookieMan says

ThreeBays says

lol, the constitution lets us make laws man. And yes, my or should we say the people's freedoms and priorities are valid foundations for the creation of laws that limit activities of others that annoy them (in terms of public health, safety, and welfare).

How do you set rules and regulations for an airborne virus that will never go away? Explain.

I don't think you get what most are saying here. Smoking, ban it indoors. Cool, most would agree that's a good idea. Airborne virus, ban it........... oh wait, you can't. Just like you can't ban fishing by taking all the fish out of the sea. You're comparing buffalo chips to watermelon seeds at this point. There's nothing to do when MILLIONS of people currently have an airborne virus. It's here. Herd immunity is a scientific term. That's what we need. Granny be damned at this point.

Masks CLEARLY do not work as we...

3 Bays cannot be helped. He is a communist.

WookieMan says

Herd immunity is a scientific term. That's what we need. Granny be damned at this point.

Fucking CDC says fucking grannies have all been fucking vaccinated. So even this pretext is not working anymore to justify the power grab. Neither is "it's for the children" for obvious reasons.

ThreeBays says

There's no way you can say masks CLEARLY do not work, it's an opinion,

No it's a fact. They don't work against Covid. Why do you keep posting lies? They do prevent droplet based transmissions, not airborne ones. N95 and above have some efficacy if properly worn and not taken off during exposure, but still not good enough to advertise or certify it.

ThreeBays says

Masks are exactly the same as seatbelts: a measure that is believed to help the public health, albeit a temporary one until herd immunity is achieved in a controlled manner.

There's no way you can say masks CLEARLY do not work, it's an opinion, mostly fostered by a biased analysis of evidence that the circle jerk community on here is not qualified to make.

1. Please see peer-reviewed research that I cite above which clearly shows that masks do not work, or at best that their effect is statistically non-significant.
2. Please compare corona/death cases in Texas and FL with those in CA. This comparison, although imperfect, suggests that masks don't work as well.
3. I am actually reasonably well-qualified to evaluate this type of evidence.

Sadly, peer-reviewed research that MASKS DO NOT WORK is ignored by mask Jesuits. FACTS don't matter, FEEEELINGS do matter in leftist circles....

THE BIGGEST LIE OF THEM ALL?

The mask doesn't protect me...it protects you. WTF!!
The retardation of America is complete.

ThreeBays says

There's no way you can say masks CLEARLY do not work, it's an opinion, without a very strong argument behind it.

Then why is it printed on the box?

Lol!

I can't wait to go to stores without a fucking mask on. I have 'special' masks the biotech I work for gave us. Designer.

All they fucking do is fog my reading glasses up so I have to keep taking them on/off to clear them when I want to read the food labels / expirys at the grocery.

Even the n95 I had at first (from my tool box, it was all I had besides an obnoxious respirator) fogged my shit up and I'm trained to fit a respirator from biotech clean room work early in my career.

Get this: I have a guest at my condo in Maui. The internet was spotty. He wiggled wires on my modem/router from Spectrum and it came back on.

So.

I scheduled an appointment to replace the hardware. Nooo ploblem..

Today they call and say someone needs to be there. (the other contractors are fine with my giving them a door code)

I get the guest to be there at 3PM Maui time.

I get a call a few mins ago. The spectrum guy won't come in because they have a rule that they can't enter if anyone hasn't been on-island for over 14 dayz...

FUUUUC!

just_passing_through says

Get this: I have a guest at my condo in Maui. The internet was spotty. He wiggled wires on my modem/router from Spectrum and it came back on.

So.

I scheduled an appointment to replace the hardware. Nooo ploblem..

Today they call and say someone needs to be there. (the other contractors are fine with my giving them a door code)

I get the guest to be there at 3PM Maui time.

I get a call a few mins ago. The spectrum guy won't come in because they have a rule that they can't enter if anyone hasn't been on-island for over 14 dayz...

FUUUUC!

lol crap. Can't the guest leave while the tech is there and keep doors and windows open? Zero chance of catching anything.

Nope.

No big deal. I'll just reschedule and have my emergency on-island manager show up who I pay $50/month. I've never needed him so far.

These were absolutely the nicest guests I've ever had. The offered to install it for me. The guy offered to leave the equipment.

Internet is working so I told them I'll deal with it later. If I have spectrum install it and they screw it up I can blame them.

Also, I'm damn sure going to have the hardware replaced if it's that much trouble.

This equipment has spent the past 3.5 years about 30ft from the ocean and a near constant tropical breeze blowing over it. I'm surprised it's lasted this long. I have jalousie windows and no AC so there is always air moving.

just_passing_through says

All they fucking do is fog my reading glasses up so I have to keep taking them on/off to clear them when I want to read the food labels / expirys at the grocery.

@just_passing_through

If the mask has two layers, just get scissors and cut out the inner layer. You'll breathe easier.

Also, keep it very loose, nearly falling off your nose.

Bonus: You're less likely to get a lung infection from your mask this way as well.

That's a great idea!

Patrick says

Also, keep it very loose, nearly falling off your nose.

just_passing_through says

That's a great idea!

Beating a dead horse. Thin gaiter is best. TSA may give you shit if you fly, but they don't really care. I don't know how anyone can have straps attached to their ears. So uncomfortable.

My favorite seatbelt psa commercial was the one where something like three motorcycle cops surrounded a guy in his car stopped at a red light. They were using their intimidating stare cause he wasn't wearing his seat belt.

The irony was lost on the people making the commercial.

ThreeBays says

Please see peer-reviewed research that clearly shows that masks do work with a high confidence.

Right, done just before the election when saying masks didn't work would get you defunded if not fired.

Every single study on respiratory viruses on a public health level have shown that, at the very best, cotton masks might reduce transmission low single percentage points

But of course, WARS (Wuhan Acute Respiratory Syndrome) is extra special unlike SARS, MERS, the Flu, the Common Cold, and the rest.

"It's different this time."

Should I wear a mask to protect myself from influenza?
Answer From Pritish K. Tosh, M.D.

In some cases, wearing a mask might help protect you from the human influenza A and B viruses — the ones responsible for most seasonal outbreaks of flu (influenza). But the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) generally suggests that only health care workers who are in close contact with people with influenza wear masks. The CDC doesn't recommend that people in public areas wear masks to protect themselves from influenza. However, during the COVID-19 pandemic, you may need to take additional precautions to reduce your risk of catching or spreading the COVID-19 virus such as wearing a cloth face mask when in public places.

If you have influenza and need to leave your home, such as to go to a doctor's appointment, you can wear a mask, which may help reduce the spread of infection. The CDC also recommends avoiding contact with anyone if you're ill with influenza.

Generally, taking precautions such as washing your hands regularly and avoiding people who are sick is considered the best mode of protection against influenza.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/swine-flu/expert-answers/flu-mask/faq-20057878

But unlike the Flu with scores of variants, special COVID is special.

If COVID killed half a million Americans, why is the Death Rate from 2020 not higher than normal? And what happened to all the flu cases? Or is this the first year in the past half-century where cheap cotton masks have magically repelled the flu on a public health level?

Why did the CDC not insist on mandatory masks during H1N1? "Just to be careful"?
https://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm

From the H1N1 CDC Link:

Content on this page was developed during the 2009-2010 H1N1 pandemic and has not been updated.

The H1N1 virus that caused that pandemic is now a regular human flu virus and continues to circulate seasonally worldwide.
The English language content on this website is being archived for historic and reference purposes only.
For current, updated information on seasonal flu, including information about H1N1, see the CDC Seasonal Flu website.

When does COVID get the Flu treatment?

"When we stop having so many cases"

We have tens of millions of flu cases, every year except last year, when the Flu magically vanished.

Left 1950-2010: Question Authority
Left 2011-2021: Trust the Experts.

This would be a great time for Dutch Boy and Sherwin-Williams to hire some experts to declare "Turns out lead paint is perfectly safe"

Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19216002

N95-masked health-care workers (HCW) were significantly more likely to experience headaches. Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds.

Cowling, B. et al. (2010) “Face masks to prevent transmission of influenza virus: A systematic review,” Epidemiology and Infection, 138(4), 449-456. https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic- review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

None of the studies reviewed showed a benefit from wearing a mask, in either HCW or community members in households (H). See summary Tables 1 and 2 therein.

bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x

“There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection.”

Smith, J.D. et al. (2016) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks in protecting health care workers from acute respiratory infection: a systematic review and meta-analysis,” CMAJ Mar 2016 https://www.cmaj.ca/content/188/8/567

“We identified six clinical studies … . In the meta-analysis of the clinical studies, we found no significant difference between N95 respirators and surgical masks in associated risk of (a) laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, (b) influenza-like illness, or (c) reported work-place absenteeism.”

Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942, https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/65/11/1934/4068747

“Self-reported assessment of clinical outcomes was prone to bias. Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant”; as per Fig. 2c therein:

Radonovich, L.J. et al. (2019) “N95 Respirators vs Medical Masks for Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Personnel: A Randomized Clinical Trial,” JAMA. 2019; 322(9): 824–833. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

“Among 2862 randomized participants, 2371 completed the study and accounted for 5180 HCW-seasons. ... Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/jebm.12381

“A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks. Meta-analysis indicated a protective effect of N95 respirators against laboratory-confirmed bacterial colonization (RR = 0.58, 95% CI 0.43-0.78). The use of N95 respirators compared with surgical masks is not associated with a lower risk of laboratory-confirmed influenza.”

Conclusion Regarding That Masks Do Not Work
No RCT study with verified outcome shows a benefit for HCW or community members in households to wearing a mask or respirator. There is no such study. There are no exceptions.

Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad policy to wear masks in public (more on this below).

Furthermore, if there were any benefit to wearing a mask, because of the blocking power against droplets and aerosol particles, then there should be more benefit from wearing a respirator (N95) compared to a surgical mask, yet several large meta-analyses, and all the RCT, prove that there is no such relative benefit.

Masks and respirators do not work.

Patrick says

If the mask has two layers, just get scissors and cut out the inner layer. You'll breathe easier.

The blue ones have 3 layers. I've been cutting out 2 of the layers for the last 10 months.

ThreeBays says

Please see peer-reviewed research that clearly shows that masks do work with a high confidence

Check the box the masks come in. It clearly says that they don't stop Covid-19 or other viruses.

MisdemeanorRebel says

Left 1950-2010: Question Authority
Left 2011-2021: Trust the Experts.

@MisdemeanorRebel, problem is that the left dont trust experts. They trust fucking politfact, and not peer-reviewed research by experts.

ThreeBays says

MisdemeanorRebel says

Right, done just before the election when saying masks didn't work would get you defunded if not fired.

Invincible ignorance fallacy

You've proven yourself unfit for self rule. A tool. No one desires what you're peddling on pat.net. Enjoy your slavery.

Rb6d says

@MisdemeanorRebel, problem is that the left dont trust experts. They trust fucking politfact, and not peer-reviewed research by experts.

Yep, Question Authority became Trust the Experts. Studies on respiratory viruses be damned.

How many know that COVID's real name is like SARS-CoV-2?

If masks didn't work for SARS 1, why is it working for SARS 2? Fine water particles (not the big sneeze blobs) spread the virus.

Claiming that a chain link fence can prevent mist from coming through is just silly. There's no science behind it. Only BigPharma Backed "Experts".