How 25%-50% of Covid-19 deaths could have been avoided: HCQ
invite response
2020 Jul 4, 9:24am 2,633 views 67 comments
by mell ➕follow (9) 💰tip ignore
Fauxci and the CDC knew it was effective against Sars, cheap and easy to stock. if we had stockpiled it and immediately imprisoned TDSsed leftoids who blocked access to it we could look at up to half the death rate.
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28
WookieMan
2020 Jul 5, 1:17pm
WookieMan
2020 Jul 5, 1:17pm
marcus says
I don't care about the drug being discussed in this thread. This comment is extremely naive though. You put way too much faith in educated people, doctors specifically. The assumption of being correct because of knowledge means dick. The most educated are the ones that usually fuck up the most because of their perceived superiority and knowledge. They're infallible. That's not who I want working on my physical body in most cases. Dead serious.
Fortunately most doctors aren't that stupid,
I don't care about the drug being discussed in this thread. This comment is extremely naive though. You put way too much faith in educated people, doctors specifically. The assumption of being correct because of knowledge means dick. The most educated are the ones that usually fuck up the most because of their perceived superiority and knowledge. They're infallible. That's not who I want working on my physical body in most cases. Dead serious.
29
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 1:22pm
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 1:22pm
Trump derangement Syndrome is matched by the equally strong and opposite insane force called Trump Delusion Syndrome. You are actually well situated to gain insight in to what causes that.
When history looks back on this era, the question "Why did so many people have such a Problem with Trump ?" will not be nearly as big a question as:
1) How and why was he elected in the first place ?
2) What does it say about the state of America and the character of it's people that they not only elected him, but they didn't reject him either, as he embarrassed the majority of it's citizens on a daily basis ?
When history looks back on this era, the question "Why did so many people have such a Problem with Trump ?" will not be nearly as big a question as:
1) How and why was he elected in the first place ?
2) What does it say about the state of America and the character of it's people that they not only elected him, but they didn't reject him either, as he embarrassed the majority of it's citizens on a daily basis ?
30
Patrick
2020 Jul 5, 1:28pm
Patrick
2020 Jul 5, 1:28pm
And conversely, I admit that some of the joy and hope I feel due to Trump's election is a not-quite-subconscious feeling of vindication after being dragged to HR or not hired for things I have said on my own forum, on my own time.
I used to be firmly on the left. It all seemed obvious to me from listening to NPR. Right-wingers must be idiots, easily manipulated, so dangerous, so violent, horrible people.
Then I was told "You can't say that" or will lose my job, or not get a new one in the Bay Area. And these were about points which are factual, and which I will repeat here once again out of defiance:
- Women are not inclined toward engineering nearly to the degree that men are, and this seems to be biological.
- Human races are more widely divergent than dog breeds, so if it is clear that dogs vary in temperament, human races should also.
- There is no evidence that being gay is inborn, but there is much evidence that it is learned and self-destructive behavior.
- Islam is by far the most violent religion, and that follows directly from the example of Mohammed himself.
So the good news is that leftist ideology does eventually attack and alienate all of its own. There is an end to the Reign of Terror in sight.
I used to be firmly on the left. It all seemed obvious to me from listening to NPR. Right-wingers must be idiots, easily manipulated, so dangerous, so violent, horrible people.
Then I was told "You can't say that" or will lose my job, or not get a new one in the Bay Area. And these were about points which are factual, and which I will repeat here once again out of defiance:
- Women are not inclined toward engineering nearly to the degree that men are, and this seems to be biological.
- Human races are more widely divergent than dog breeds, so if it is clear that dogs vary in temperament, human races should also.
- There is no evidence that being gay is inborn, but there is much evidence that it is learned and self-destructive behavior.
- Islam is by far the most violent religion, and that follows directly from the example of Mohammed himself.
So the good news is that leftist ideology does eventually attack and alienate all of its own. There is an end to the Reign of Terror in sight.
31
Patrick
2020 Jul 5, 1:31pm
Patrick
2020 Jul 5, 1:31pm
WookieMan says
@WookieMan You might really enjoy a lot of the writing of Nassim Taleb. One of his favorite phrases is "Intellectual Yet Idiot":
https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577
The most educated are the ones that usually fuck up the most because of their perceived superiority and knowledge. They're infallible. That's not who I want working on my physical body in most cases. Dead serious.
@WookieMan You might really enjoy a lot of the writing of Nassim Taleb. One of his favorite phrases is "Intellectual Yet Idiot":
https://medium.com/incerto/the-intellectual-yet-idiot-13211e2d0577
What we have been seeing worldwide, from India to the UK to the US, is the rebellion against the inner circle of no-skin-in-the-game policymaking “clerks” and journalists-insiders, that class of paternalistic semi-intellectual experts with some Ivy league, Oxford-Cambridge, or similar label-driven education who are telling the rest of us 1) what to do, 2) what to eat, 3) how to speak, 4) how to think… and 5) who to vote for.
But the problem is the one-eyed following the blind: these self-described members of the “intelligentsia” can’t find a coconut in Coconut Island, meaning they aren’t intelligent enough to define intelligence hence fall into circularities — but their main skill is capacity to pass exams written by people like them.
32
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 1:46pm
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 1:46pm
Patrick says
No offense but such statements (from my pov) seem more emotional than anything else. I disagree with the first part, but also there is no logic to "should" of the second part. Possibly "could." But dog populations are bred over a relatively short period of time. Also dogs are bred with intention, and some breeds are woefully inbred.
In another way, your argument works against your belief. Dog breeding shows for example that temperament changes can easily be bred in to or out of dogs. E.g. the example of paranoid and aggressive foxes, bred in a few short generations to being docile and friendly. This suggests a mutability depending on cultural emphasis on the types of mates that are most desirable, matriarchy versus patriarchy and so on, that imply that through assimilation into a multicultural diverse society the differences if they don't disappear become irrelevant.. Even the differences withing racial groups which are obviously far far greater than differences between groups are mutable over time depending on culture.
And then finally, who cares ? If you are treating people as individuals, why obsess about group differences ? This is why to me, your point seems so racist.
- Human races are more widely divergent than dog breeds, so if it is clear that dogs vary in temperament, human races should also.
No offense but such statements (from my pov) seem more emotional than anything else. I disagree with the first part, but also there is no logic to "should" of the second part. Possibly "could." But dog populations are bred over a relatively short period of time. Also dogs are bred with intention, and some breeds are woefully inbred.
In another way, your argument works against your belief. Dog breeding shows for example that temperament changes can easily be bred in to or out of dogs. E.g. the example of paranoid and aggressive foxes, bred in a few short generations to being docile and friendly. This suggests a mutability depending on cultural emphasis on the types of mates that are most desirable, matriarchy versus patriarchy and so on, that imply that through assimilation into a multicultural diverse society the differences if they don't disappear become irrelevant.. Even the differences withing racial groups which are obviously far far greater than differences between groups are mutable over time depending on culture.
And then finally, who cares ? If you are treating people as individuals, why obsess about group differences ? This is why to me, your point seems so racist.
33
Bd6r
2020 Jul 5, 1:47pm
Bd6r
2020 Jul 5, 1:47pm
marcus says
@marcus, I don't like him and did not vote for him. He behaves like a stereotypical Yankee asshole, who he undoubtedly is. But given choice between him and statue-toppling vandals, I will choose him every day.
Trump derangement Syndrome is matched by the equally strong and opposite insane force called Trump Delusion Syndrome. You are actually well situated to gain insight in to what causes that.
When history looks back on this era, the question "Why did so many people have such a Problem with Trump ?" will not be nearly as big a question as:
1) How and why was he elected in the first place ?
2) What does it say about the state of America and the character of it's people that they not only elected him, but they didn't reject him either, as he embarrassed the majority of it's citizens on a daily basis ?
@marcus, I don't like him and did not vote for him. He behaves like a stereotypical Yankee asshole, who he undoubtedly is. But given choice between him and statue-toppling vandals, I will choose him every day.
34
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 1:53pm
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 1:53pm
rd6B says
Of course.
But if you make the leap to generalizing that democrats are statue toppling vandals, then you are identifying the entire left with some crazies on far left.
Remember, the left couldn't even nominate Bernie Sanders.
It will be interesting to see whether Biden can present an objective and sensible position on what the extreme left is doing.
It's interesting, the degree to which the noise on the far left, strengthens the right. I too find myself recoiling against the stupidity. For example, as an objective person, seeing BLM stupidity only makes me more respectful of and more interested in listening to conservative black voices. (by conservative - I don't mean necessarily republican).
But given choice between him and statue-toppling vandals, I will choose him every day.
Of course.
But if you make the leap to generalizing that democrats are statue toppling vandals, then you are identifying the entire left with some crazies on far left.
Remember, the left couldn't even nominate Bernie Sanders.
It will be interesting to see whether Biden can present an objective and sensible position on what the extreme left is doing.
It's interesting, the degree to which the noise on the far left, strengthens the right. I too find myself recoiling against the stupidity. For example, as an objective person, seeing BLM stupidity only makes me more respectful of and more interested in listening to conservative black voices. (by conservative - I don't mean necessarily republican).
35
Eric Holder
2020 Jul 5, 1:55pm
Eric Holder
2020 Jul 5, 1:55pm
marcus says
It's only natural taking into account that no prominent democrats voiced their opposition to vandalism. Silence is violence, remember?
But if you make the leap to generalizing that democrats are statue toppling vandals, then you are identifying the entire left with some crazies on far left.
It's only natural taking into account that no prominent democrats voiced their opposition to vandalism. Silence is violence, remember?
36
Patrick
2020 Jul 5, 1:59pm
Patrick
2020 Jul 5, 1:59pm
marcus says
From my daily experience, that identity does seem to be valid.
I do not find Democrats objecting to statue toppling, or defunding the police, or even suspecting that BLM's 4-year cycle might have something to do with the election.
Among Democrats, I see only true believers in The Narrative, or those too intimidated by leftist violence to speak up.
But if you make the leap to generalizing that democrats are statue toppling vandals, then you are identifying the entire left with some crazies on far left.
From my daily experience, that identity does seem to be valid.
I do not find Democrats objecting to statue toppling, or defunding the police, or even suspecting that BLM's 4-year cycle might have something to do with the election.
Among Democrats, I see only true believers in The Narrative, or those too intimidated by leftist violence to speak up.
37
HeadSet
2020 Jul 5, 2:18pm
HeadSet
2020 Jul 5, 2:18pm
But if you make the leap to generalizing that democrats are statue toppling vandals, then you are identifying the entire left with some crazies on far left.
Elected Dems seem to agree with the statue toppling, and only elected Dems can defund the police, as in Minneapolis and New York.
Elected Dems seem to agree with the statue toppling, and only elected Dems can defund the police, as in Minneapolis and New York.
38
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 2:28pm
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 2:28pm
marcus says
Haha - the left probably DID nominate Bernie Sanders.
You have no way to validate the vote at all, but have been programmed since birth to believe that the US is really a dumbocracy - your guvernment skools said so!
So, let me get this straight. The "left" nominated a senile old man, that has said he enjoys having children jump on his lab, who said he's learned about roaches from black people, who was involved in blatantly obvious corruption in Ukraine, and looks to all the world to be a pedophile.
That's what the "left" nominated?
Oh, and he promises to change nothing, has no platform, speaks in completely empty platitudes. He was also an outspoken supporter of the Iraq War - you know, that war over non existent weapons of mass destruction EVERYBODY loved so fucking much that they elected a black man with a Muslim sounding name.
Here's a thought: he wasn't actually nominated...
Oh, but that's just crazy talk isn't it?? OF COURSE he was. How silly to think we are in a sham democratic system, and not a real one. We all want another fucking war right, and although it's impossible to scrounge up $20 billion dollars for a wall between Mexico and the US, it's entirely affordable to spend $2 billion a day on bombing a bunch of nations for which you have no fucking idea why the US is bombing those nations.
Remember, the left couldn't even nominate Bernie Sanders.
Haha - the left probably DID nominate Bernie Sanders.
You have no way to validate the vote at all, but have been programmed since birth to believe that the US is really a dumbocracy - your guvernment skools said so!
So, let me get this straight. The "left" nominated a senile old man, that has said he enjoys having children jump on his lab, who said he's learned about roaches from black people, who was involved in blatantly obvious corruption in Ukraine, and looks to all the world to be a pedophile.
That's what the "left" nominated?
Oh, and he promises to change nothing, has no platform, speaks in completely empty platitudes. He was also an outspoken supporter of the Iraq War - you know, that war over non existent weapons of mass destruction EVERYBODY loved so fucking much that they elected a black man with a Muslim sounding name.
Here's a thought: he wasn't actually nominated...
Oh, but that's just crazy talk isn't it?? OF COURSE he was. How silly to think we are in a sham democratic system, and not a real one. We all want another fucking war right, and although it's impossible to scrounge up $20 billion dollars for a wall between Mexico and the US, it's entirely affordable to spend $2 billion a day on bombing a bunch of nations for which you have no fucking idea why the US is bombing those nations.
39
Bd6r
2020 Jul 5, 3:12pm
Bd6r
2020 Jul 5, 3:12pm
marcus says
I think it helps the collective Right to a great degree. Many of my acquaintances have shifted their opinions to the right; many minority students are now telling that they will vote third party and not D after seeing that D's do not really condemn antifa (unless their mansions are threatened). We may see resurgence of Racist Right as well, caused by racists on the left (as in any action will cause counter-reaction to it overshooting reasonable boundaries).
marcus says
I have started listening to them also, mostly libertarians because mainstream R's are not that great.
It's interesting, the degree to which the noise on the far left, strengthens the right.
I think it helps the collective Right to a great degree. Many of my acquaintances have shifted their opinions to the right; many minority students are now telling that they will vote third party and not D after seeing that D's do not really condemn antifa (unless their mansions are threatened). We may see resurgence of Racist Right as well, caused by racists on the left (as in any action will cause counter-reaction to it overshooting reasonable boundaries).
marcus says
listening to conservative black voices. (by conservative - I don't mean necessarily republican).
I have started listening to them also, mostly libertarians because mainstream R's are not that great.
40
Bd6r
2020 Jul 5, 3:22pm
Bd6r
2020 Jul 5, 3:22pm
marcus says
exactly. if we start obsessing with group differences, we slide to level of BLM. Treat people like individuals, no matter who they are.
If you are treating people as individuals, why obsess about group differences ?
exactly. if we start obsessing with group differences, we slide to level of BLM. Treat people like individuals, no matter who they are.
41
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 5:14pm
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 5:14pm
Patrick says
I'm a democrat. You heard me liking Jordan Peterson, and agreeing with his analysis of post modernism and stupid idnetity politics (on both sides).
I also posted a Coleman Hughes video here recently. I don't think I need to explicitly tell you that I don't want to see Thomas Jefferson statues overturned by whackos on the left, that is for you to know what I think about it.
I do not find Democrats objecting to statue toppling, or defunding the police, or even suspecting that BLM's 4-year cycle might have something to do with the election.
Among Democrats, I see only true believers in The Narrative, or those too intimidated by leftist violence to speak up.
I'm a democrat. You heard me liking Jordan Peterson, and agreeing with his analysis of post modernism and stupid idnetity politics (on both sides).
I also posted a Coleman Hughes video here recently. I don't think I need to explicitly tell you that I don't want to see Thomas Jefferson statues overturned by whackos on the left, that is for you to know what I think about it.
42
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 5:35pm
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 5:35pm
richwicks says
I agree, he could benefit from some intensive courses in lying from Trump. Perhaps there are some master liars that could give him some one on one intensive tutoring.
Some of us prefer someone who lies way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way less, even if what they promise is far less compelling or exciting.
Oh, and he promises to change nothing, has no platform, speaks in completely empty platitudes
I agree, he could benefit from some intensive courses in lying from Trump. Perhaps there are some master liars that could give him some one on one intensive tutoring.
Some of us prefer someone who lies way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way less, even if what they promise is far less compelling or exciting.
43
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 5:47pm
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 5:47pm
marcus says
Trump? He sucks at it!
George W. Bush lied us into an entire fucking war! Remember when we couldn't wait for the final proof to come in the form of a mushroom cloud??
Or what about Obama? He convinced the nation that it needed to bomb Libya to "prevent a humanitarian crisis"!!! Then he left it in civil war with slavery markets! Oh man, that one was a whopper.
Now, tell me the biggest lie Trump has said. He sure sucks at starting a new war.
marcus says
Like whom? You mean Biden?
www.youtube.com/embed/C57Mx-1y2GM
Yeah, that man is authentic! Look, just elect this:
You know you're just going to be electing a mouthpiece for the MIC. Just fucking admit it. Quit pretending you're electing a human being, and recognize you're electing a puppet.
richwicks saysOh, and he promises to change nothing, has no platform, speaks in completely empty platitudes
I agree, he could benefit from some intensive courses in lying from Trump.
Trump? He sucks at it!
George W. Bush lied us into an entire fucking war! Remember when we couldn't wait for the final proof to come in the form of a mushroom cloud??
Or what about Obama? He convinced the nation that it needed to bomb Libya to "prevent a humanitarian crisis"!!! Then he left it in civil war with slavery markets! Oh man, that one was a whopper.
Now, tell me the biggest lie Trump has said. He sure sucks at starting a new war.
marcus says
Some of us prefer someone who lies way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way way less, even if what they promise is far less compelling or exciting.
Like whom? You mean Biden?
www.youtube.com/embed/C57Mx-1y2GM
Yeah, that man is authentic! Look, just elect this:
You know you're just going to be electing a mouthpiece for the MIC. Just fucking admit it. Quit pretending you're electing a human being, and recognize you're electing a puppet.
44
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 5:52pm
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 5:52pm
Patrick says
Saying that in or something close to it 2010 is very much like saying all liberals are statue toppling vandals now.
People that are not married to one side or the other can appreciate this. There are whackos on both sides in the wings of the distribution. Yes, it's true though that the left side of the center that does dominate so much of the (slightly more mainstream) media and academia needs to speak out against their crazies.
That was one of Coleman Hughes good observations in that video. That the left seems to miss that they are dominant and yet claiming oppression and victimhood.
I have to admit to some fear about the way that things evolve or don't evolve in this country anymore.
Where are the great leaders in America ?
Right-wingers must be idiots, easily manipulated, so dangerous, so violent, horrible people.
Saying that in or something close to it 2010 is very much like saying all liberals are statue toppling vandals now.
People that are not married to one side or the other can appreciate this. There are whackos on both sides in the wings of the distribution. Yes, it's true though that the left side of the center that does dominate so much of the (slightly more mainstream) media and academia needs to speak out against their crazies.
That was one of Coleman Hughes good observations in that video. That the left seems to miss that they are dominant and yet claiming oppression and victimhood.
I have to admit to some fear about the way that things evolve or don't evolve in this country anymore.
Where are the great leaders in America ?
45
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 6:03pm
marcus
2020 Jul 5, 6:03pm
richwicks says
Sadly that may be the case, and historically has been, including with Trump, even if in his case he didn't expect to win and didn't fully decide who all his puppet masters were until after he was elected.
recognize you're electing a puppet
Sadly that may be the case, and historically has been, including with Trump, even if in his case he didn't expect to win and didn't fully decide who all his puppet masters were until after he was elected.
46
theoakman
2020 Jul 5, 6:46pm
There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't be combining this with Zinc in this study. It's been proven in the scientific literature that HCQ increases Zinc concentration and it's also proven that Zinc inhibits other coronaviruses ability to replicate. It's akin to going into battle with a jeep and body armor, but forgetting your machine gun.
47
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 6:59pm
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 6:59pm
marcus says
Will you give me a break?
Hillary Clinton made a deal in Uranium One. She received 145 million dollars from various Russian sources after the deal was completed as "donations" to the Clinton Foundation. Bill Clinton made a speech for a Russian bank and was paid $500,000 for that under 1 hour effort.
And you have the temerity to accuse Trump of collusion with Russia? How hypocritical can you get?
I know that the saying is "Accuse Your Enemy Of What You Are Doing, As You Are Doing It" - but sheesh - give it a rest.
And for the record, if Russia was controlling the United States, it couldn't be any worse than our MIC controlling it.
richwicks saysrecognize you're electing a puppet
Sadly that may be the case, and historically has been, including with Trump, even if in his case he didn't expect to win and didn't fully decide who all his puppet masters were until after he was elected.
Will you give me a break?
Hillary Clinton made a deal in Uranium One. She received 145 million dollars from various Russian sources after the deal was completed as "donations" to the Clinton Foundation. Bill Clinton made a speech for a Russian bank and was paid $500,000 for that under 1 hour effort.
And you have the temerity to accuse Trump of collusion with Russia? How hypocritical can you get?
I know that the saying is "Accuse Your Enemy Of What You Are Doing, As You Are Doing It" - but sheesh - give it a rest.
And for the record, if Russia was controlling the United States, it couldn't be any worse than our MIC controlling it.
48
rdm
2020 Jul 5, 9:56pm
richwicks says
Which she used to start up a pediphile ring operating out of pizza parler that Seth Rich used to frequent just before he was killed by Hillary for giving the Ukranians the password to the DNC server and they had it hijacked to the Ukraine on Hunter Biden's orders. Better believe it, as this Top Sekret info came straight from Devin Nunes cow.
Hillary Clinton made a deal in Uranium One. She received 145 million dollars from various Russian sources after the deal was completed as "donations" to the Clinton Foundatio
Which she used to start up a pediphile ring operating out of pizza parler that Seth Rich used to frequent just before he was killed by Hillary for giving the Ukranians the password to the DNC server and they had it hijacked to the Ukraine on Hunter Biden's orders. Better believe it, as this Top Sekret info came straight from Devin Nunes cow.
49
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 11:01pm
richwicks
2020 Jul 5, 11:01pm
rdm says
Um, I'm doubtful of that.
First of all, I have implemented FAT32 and Binney is right, the data was copied to a FAT32 file system which IMPLIES her server wasn't hacked by the Russians. The modification dates on files on FAT32 are every 2 seconds. That showed up in the files.
However, they could have been copied to a remote server, then copied to a FAT32 file system there, then transferred.
So it isn't conclusive. Bill Binney isn't giving complete information.
But it seems likely that Seth Rich was the source:
www.youtube.com/embed/PV6ftkQA_Ew
I have no idea how you conclude he frequented the pizza parlor - and I consider that irrelevant even if he did. I like pizza myself, but merely actual pizza. I think it's largely a distraction.
richwicks says
Hillary Clinton made a deal in Uranium One. She received 145 million dollars from various Russian sources after the deal was completed as "donations" to the Clinton Foundatio
Which she used to start up a pediphile ring operating out of pizza parler that Seth Rich used to frequent just before he was killed by Hillary for giving the Ukranians the password to the DNC server and they had it hijacked to the Ukraine on Hunter Biden's orders. Better believe it, as this Top Sekret info came straight from Devin Nunes cow.
Um, I'm doubtful of that.
First of all, I have implemented FAT32 and Binney is right, the data was copied to a FAT32 file system which IMPLIES her server wasn't hacked by the Russians. The modification dates on files on FAT32 are every 2 seconds. That showed up in the files.
However, they could have been copied to a remote server, then copied to a FAT32 file system there, then transferred.
So it isn't conclusive. Bill Binney isn't giving complete information.
But it seems likely that Seth Rich was the source:
www.youtube.com/embed/PV6ftkQA_Ew
I have no idea how you conclude he frequented the pizza parlor - and I consider that irrelevant even if he did. I like pizza myself, but merely actual pizza. I think it's largely a distraction.
50
Eric Holder
2020 Jul 6, 10:08am
Eric Holder
2020 Jul 6, 10:08am
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/health/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-detroit-study/index.html
A team at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan said Thursday
its study of 2,541 hospitalized patients found that those given
hydroxychloroquine were much less likely to die.
Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease for Henry Ford
Health System, said 26% of those not given hydroxychloroquine died,
compared to 13% of those who got the drug.
"Our results do differ from some other studies," Zervos told a news
conference. "What we think was important in ours ... is that patients
were treated early. For hydroxychloroquine to have a benefit, it needs
to begin before the patients begin to suffer some of the severe immune
reactions that patients can have with Covid," he added.
A team at Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan said Thursday
its study of 2,541 hospitalized patients found that those given
hydroxychloroquine were much less likely to die.
Dr. Marcus Zervos, division head of infectious disease for Henry Ford
Health System, said 26% of those not given hydroxychloroquine died,
compared to 13% of those who got the drug.
"Our results do differ from some other studies," Zervos told a news
conference. "What we think was important in ours ... is that patients
were treated early. For hydroxychloroquine to have a benefit, it needs
to begin before the patients begin to suffer some of the severe immune
reactions that patients can have with Covid," he added.
51
rdm
2020 Jul 6, 12:21pm
"The World Health Organization (WHO) on Saturday said that it discontinued studies evaluating hydroxychloroquine and AbbVie's ABBV, -0.16% HIV drug Kaletra as potential treatments for COVID-19. The WHO has been conducting a multi-pronged clinical trial testing a handful of potential treatments in hospitalized COVID-19 patients since late March. "These interim trial results show that hydroxychloroquine and lopinavir/ritonavir produce little or no reduction in the mortality of hospitalized COVID-19 patients when compared to standard of care," the organization said in a news release. The WHO had previously halted the hydroxychloroquine arm over safety concerns, restarted it, and then stopped it again; however, there is mounting clinical evidence that hydroxychloroquine, a decades-old antimalarial, is not effective treatment for severely ill COVID-19 patients. The Food and Drug Administration on June 15 withdrew its emergency use authorization for hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, and the National Institutes of Health also stopped its own study of the drug."
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-formally-drops-hydroxychloroquine-hiv-drug-from-covid-19-drug-study-2020-07-06
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/who-formally-drops-hydroxychloroquine-hiv-drug-from-covid-19-drug-study-2020-07-06
52
HeadSet
2020 Jul 6, 12:26pm
HeadSet
2020 Jul 6, 12:26pm
WHO also said no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) in a Jan 14th official tweet.
53
Rin
2020 Jul 6, 6:52pm
Rin
2020 Jul 6, 6:52pm
theoakman says
I've been screaming the same thing for ages.
My thesis was on membranes, the core specialty which meshes applied chemistry/chemistry engineering to the bio sciences.
My low tech undergrad work was using affinity ligands on polymer surfaces to assist in moving key ingredients to the other side. In other words, the basis for purifying drugs or in this case, getting something into the cell itself for medicinal purposes.
How come NO ONE gets it? If you have HCQ in the blood stream, you need it to transport something. Well, that something is the Zinc ion which is a viral inhibitor and only works if it's in the cell itself. Otherwise, you're hoping that the person has a steady diet of oysters.
But rdm already knows this (since I'm repeating myself) and is now, kowtowing to the political types at the NIH, which is all of them.
There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't be combining this with Zinc in this study. It's been proven in the scientific literature that HCQ increases Zinc concentration and it's also proven that Zinc inhibits other coronaviruses ability to replicate. It's akin to going into battle with a jeep and body armor, but forgetting your machine gun.
I've been screaming the same thing for ages.
My thesis was on membranes, the core specialty which meshes applied chemistry/chemistry engineering to the bio sciences.
My low tech undergrad work was using affinity ligands on polymer surfaces to assist in moving key ingredients to the other side. In other words, the basis for purifying drugs or in this case, getting something into the cell itself for medicinal purposes.
How come NO ONE gets it? If you have HCQ in the blood stream, you need it to transport something. Well, that something is the Zinc ion which is a viral inhibitor and only works if it's in the cell itself. Otherwise, you're hoping that the person has a steady diet of oysters.
But rdm already knows this (since I'm repeating myself) and is now, kowtowing to the political types at the NIH, which is all of them.
55
theoakman
2020 Jul 6, 8:12pm
Dr. Zelenko gave another great interview with Dr. Drew a few days ago. You really get a great view of a doctor on the front lines to see how to deal with this disease.
Basically, he says, the viral load explodes around day 6. A patient coming to a doctor on day 4 or 5, gets tested, gets the results on Day 7 or 8 which is late in the game where hospitalization is necessary. And, many of the tests are giving false negatives. Intervening as quickly as possible to avoid hospitalization entirely. Wow...preventative medicine...what a thought. I have a feeling doctors on the forefront are just doing this and not giving public interviews about it. We have cases rising in all kinds of states without the corresponding mass deaths.
Basically, anyone coming in should get the $20 HCQ, Zinc treatment just based on symptoms. They address the politicization of the drug along with the fact that big pharma would not want you to take this as opposed to a much much more expensive treatment. He says he submitted his results for publication and peer review.
www.youtube.com/embed/3ywj-PZTt4g
Basically, he says, the viral load explodes around day 6. A patient coming to a doctor on day 4 or 5, gets tested, gets the results on Day 7 or 8 which is late in the game where hospitalization is necessary. And, many of the tests are giving false negatives. Intervening as quickly as possible to avoid hospitalization entirely. Wow...preventative medicine...what a thought. I have a feeling doctors on the forefront are just doing this and not giving public interviews about it. We have cases rising in all kinds of states without the corresponding mass deaths.
Basically, anyone coming in should get the $20 HCQ, Zinc treatment just based on symptoms. They address the politicization of the drug along with the fact that big pharma would not want you to take this as opposed to a much much more expensive treatment. He says he submitted his results for publication and peer review.
www.youtube.com/embed/3ywj-PZTt4g
56
rdm
2020 Jul 6, 9:58pm
Rin says
Yes you are, the thing is there are some very smart people trying to find ways to treat this virus. Why does everyone on this site think they are smarter? This friggin drug may or may not help but it isn't the "game changer" that it was promoted as, that much we do know. There are many therapeutics to try and most docs. and scientists are moving on to other therapies and seem to be having success. The death rate is not increasing in tandem with the number of cases, and hospitalizations are having better outcomes. Some of this is certainly due to the declining ages of the infected populations but not all. They are learning how to better treat seriously ill patients by treating seriously ill patients.
But rdm already knows this (since I'm repeating myself)
Yes you are, the thing is there are some very smart people trying to find ways to treat this virus. Why does everyone on this site think they are smarter? This friggin drug may or may not help but it isn't the "game changer" that it was promoted as, that much we do know. There are many therapeutics to try and most docs. and scientists are moving on to other therapies and seem to be having success. The death rate is not increasing in tandem with the number of cases, and hospitalizations are having better outcomes. Some of this is certainly due to the declining ages of the infected populations but not all. They are learning how to better treat seriously ill patients by treating seriously ill patients.
57
Rin
2020 Jul 6, 10:19pm
Rin
2020 Jul 6, 10:19pm
rdm says
Let me see ... Remdesivir, the first full treatment for Hepatitis-C, was touted by Dr Fauci for Covid-19, at roughly the same time as HCQ was being advocated by the amateurs. The difference is that the full Hep-C treatment of Remdesivir costs some $900K (w/ insurance picking up a lot of that tab) and today, there are a lot fewer Hep-C patients than they were in the past so the Gilead Pharma doesn't make much money on their Hep-C crowd.
Yes, these appear to be really "smart ppl". BTW, I'd also scored a 34 on the MCAT (before the re-scaling) so I'm really convinced that these are "Isaac Newtons (not corrupt corportists) and I'm just an ordinary guy in finance", who'd left STEM for the real money.
And at the same time, I haven't heard anything about anything else.
Here's another one of my threads ...
https://patrick.net/post/1332804?offset=0#comment-1677373
Excerpt: "I've actually done my own "amateur" clinical trial on this subject.
I have a dozen persons, all over 45, taking a cocktail of R-Lipoic Acid (200 mg/day), Turmeric w/ peppercorn (not standardized as each have their own favorite vendor), Quercetin (split into 2, 250 mg servings, day vs evening), Allisure's Allicin (from Garlic, 150 mg/day), a chelated ionic mineral supplement which has both zinc and copper.
From having regular colds, flus, and sore joints, all of them were symptom free for the past year. In other words, aside from one martial artist, who overexercises & injures himself regularly, none of the others have had any of the ordinary signs of aging. And as of now, none have had Covid-19, as their bodies areas quite capable of fighting off many infections. One person appears to have reversed all signs of gum disease.
I'm waiting for Brix and Fauci to fund a bigger study on a several 1000 persons. LOL!"
Rin says
But rdm already knows this (since I'm repeating myself)
Yes you are, the thing is there are some very smart people trying to find ways to treat this virus. Why does everyone on this site think they are smarter? This friggin drug may or may not help but it isn't the "game changer" that it was promoted as, that much we do know. There are many therapeutics to try and most docs. and scientists are moving on to other therapies and seem to be having success. The death rate is not increasing in tandem with the number of cases, and hospitalizations are having better outcomes. Some of this is certainly due to the declining ages of the infected populations but not all. They are learning how to better treat seriously ill patients by treating seriously ill patients.
Let me see ... Remdesivir, the first full treatment for Hepatitis-C, was touted by Dr Fauci for Covid-19, at roughly the same time as HCQ was being advocated by the amateurs. The difference is that the full Hep-C treatment of Remdesivir costs some $900K (w/ insurance picking up a lot of that tab) and today, there are a lot fewer Hep-C patients than they were in the past so the Gilead Pharma doesn't make much money on their Hep-C crowd.
Yes, these appear to be really "smart ppl". BTW, I'd also scored a 34 on the MCAT (before the re-scaling) so I'm really convinced that these are "Isaac Newtons (not corrupt corportists) and I'm just an ordinary guy in finance", who'd left STEM for the real money.
And at the same time, I haven't heard anything about anything else.
Here's another one of my threads ...
https://patrick.net/post/1332804?offset=0#comment-1677373
Excerpt: "I've actually done my own "amateur" clinical trial on this subject.
I have a dozen persons, all over 45, taking a cocktail of R-Lipoic Acid (200 mg/day), Turmeric w/ peppercorn (not standardized as each have their own favorite vendor), Quercetin (split into 2, 250 mg servings, day vs evening), Allisure's Allicin (from Garlic, 150 mg/day), a chelated ionic mineral supplement which has both zinc and copper.
From having regular colds, flus, and sore joints, all of them were symptom free for the past year. In other words, aside from one martial artist, who overexercises & injures himself regularly, none of the others have had any of the ordinary signs of aging. And as of now, none have had Covid-19, as their bodies areas quite capable of fighting off many infections. One person appears to have reversed all signs of gum disease.
I'm waiting for Brix and Fauci to fund a bigger study on a several 1000 persons. LOL!"
59
Onvacation
2020 Jul 6, 10:45pm
Onvacation
2020 Jul 6, 10:45pm
marcus says
Smart people who dodged the bullet of having an evil warmongering witch for president. We probably wouldn't have covid as we would be busy fighting a war.
What does it say about the state of America and the character of it's people that they not only elected him, but they didn't reject him either, as he embarrassed the majority of it's citizens on a daily basis ?
Smart people who dodged the bullet of having an evil warmongering witch for president. We probably wouldn't have covid as we would be busy fighting a war.
60
Onvacation
2020 Jul 6, 10:49pm
Onvacation
2020 Jul 6, 10:49pm
marcus says
So all lives do matter?
And then finally, who cares ? If you are treating people as individuals, why obsess about group differences ? This is why to me, your point seems so racist.
So all lives do matter?
61
WookieMan
2020 Jul 7, 6:00am
WookieMan
2020 Jul 7, 6:00am
rdm says
It's a forum dude. You're doing the same by saying it's not working. No one is also claiming to be smarter either. Most are opinions and some are educated opinions whether you like it or not.
If no one puts a thought out there, nothing gets questioned. As long as it stays civil it's good to question things and have some back and forth with people that have opinions and sometimes have actual knowledge of a topic. No one is 100% right or educated on a topic. I learn a lot from this site to be honest. What I've hated is that something not political at all, gets turned political. It makes no sense.
Why does everyone on this site think they are smarter?
It's a forum dude. You're doing the same by saying it's not working. No one is also claiming to be smarter either. Most are opinions and some are educated opinions whether you like it or not.
If no one puts a thought out there, nothing gets questioned. As long as it stays civil it's good to question things and have some back and forth with people that have opinions and sometimes have actual knowledge of a topic. No one is 100% right or educated on a topic. I learn a lot from this site to be honest. What I've hated is that something not political at all, gets turned political. It makes no sense.
62
theoakman
2020 Jul 7, 7:32am
rdm says
A little bit of background.
BS in Chemistry
PhD in Physical Chemistry
I was involved on the research end of the development of the most effective HIV drugs to date, Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitors. I've worked on the synthesis of those same drugs and my research was in Biophysics. Specifically, I looked at the biophysics of the drugs interacting with the Reverse Transcriptase enzyme.
I now teach Physics for a living.
Given that I understand chemistry and the physics of interactions of drugs at the molecular level, I've done far far more than your average physician in terms of drug development or disease treatment.
That being said, I do not assume to be smarter than everyone in this fight. What you fail to realize that there is literature the past 20 years studying both Hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness as a Zinc Ionophore and Zinc's effectiveness at inhibiting various viral replication, SPECIFICALLY CORONAVIRUSES!. These protocols of HCQ combined with Zinc were developed by pathologists!
That being said, yes, I am smarter than everyone in the media reporting on this, including cracks like Sanjay Gupta. Most definitely smarter than Anderson Cooper or Joy Behar. The fact of the matter is, the media hysteria that surrounded the drug is entirely owned by the left and what they did was scare patients from performing in planned clinical trials. They've also prevented doctors from coming out publicly with their results because they don't want to deal with the mob. I suggest you watch the interview with Dr. Zelenko, you might learn a lot.
Specifically, you would learn that HCQ + Zinc appears to be a great treatment in the earliest stages of the virus while other things such as Remdesivir and Steroids are more appropriate in the latter stages. Furthermore, the goal is likely going to be a magic bullet consisting of a cocktail of medications. That's how they were able to reign in HIV.
Yes you are, the thing is there are some very smart people trying to find ways to treat this virus. Why does everyone on this site think they are smarter? This friggin drug may or may not help but it isn't the "game changer" that it was promoted as, that much we do know. There are many therapeutics to try and most docs. and scientists are moving on to other therapies and seem to be having success. The death rate is not increasing in tandem with the number of cases, and hospitalizations are having better outcomes. Some of this is certainly due to the declining ages of the infected populations but not all. They are learning how to better treat seriously ill patients by treating seriously ill patients.
A little bit of background.
BS in Chemistry
PhD in Physical Chemistry
I was involved on the research end of the development of the most effective HIV drugs to date, Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitors. I've worked on the synthesis of those same drugs and my research was in Biophysics. Specifically, I looked at the biophysics of the drugs interacting with the Reverse Transcriptase enzyme.
I now teach Physics for a living.
Given that I understand chemistry and the physics of interactions of drugs at the molecular level, I've done far far more than your average physician in terms of drug development or disease treatment.
That being said, I do not assume to be smarter than everyone in this fight. What you fail to realize that there is literature the past 20 years studying both Hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness as a Zinc Ionophore and Zinc's effectiveness at inhibiting various viral replication, SPECIFICALLY CORONAVIRUSES!. These protocols of HCQ combined with Zinc were developed by pathologists!
That being said, yes, I am smarter than everyone in the media reporting on this, including cracks like Sanjay Gupta. Most definitely smarter than Anderson Cooper or Joy Behar. The fact of the matter is, the media hysteria that surrounded the drug is entirely owned by the left and what they did was scare patients from performing in planned clinical trials. They've also prevented doctors from coming out publicly with their results because they don't want to deal with the mob. I suggest you watch the interview with Dr. Zelenko, you might learn a lot.
Specifically, you would learn that HCQ + Zinc appears to be a great treatment in the earliest stages of the virus while other things such as Remdesivir and Steroids are more appropriate in the latter stages. Furthermore, the goal is likely going to be a magic bullet consisting of a cocktail of medications. That's how they were able to reign in HIV.
63
porkchopXpress
2020 Jul 7, 7:41am
porkchopXpress
2020 Jul 7, 7:41am
theoakman says
I am smarter than everyone in the media reporting on this, including cracks like Sanjay Gupta. Most definitely smarter than Anderson Cooper or Joy Behar.But you don't tell them what they want to hear :(
64
rdm
2020 Jul 7, 9:26am
Rin says
Pass as to your medical advice. However, I do acknowledge your are an expert in the specialized field of titty fucking. ;-)
Excerpt: "I've actually done my own "amateur" clinical trial on this subject
Pass as to your medical advice. However, I do acknowledge your are an expert in the specialized field of titty fucking. ;-)
65
Rin
2020 Jul 7, 10:11am
Rin
2020 Jul 7, 10:11am
theoakman says
In this case, being humble is not the case. You probably are smarter than 90% of those in this fight because you're no longer 'controlled' by XYZ pharma or one of Fauci's grants to continue your academic work.
Years ago in Britain, at the Univ of London, the researchers who'd first shown that Allisure Allicin (not the baked garlic in the faux hypertension Stanford study) inhibited MRSA growth in vivo (not just in vitro), have been facing all kinds of political hurdles in trying to opt for a wider scale test.
And if you think about it, the South Korean HCQ + Zinc study is not being reproduced here. Instead, it's a HCQ + some antibiotic (which does nothing for a virus) and no separation of the patient populations. So how are these ppl smarter than you? If anything, they have a vested interest in failing in order to kowtow to a more expensive protocol.
At least I'm in finance to make money and fuck hoes. No one can accuse me of being a hypocrite.
That being said, I do not assume to be smarter than everyone in this fight.
In this case, being humble is not the case. You probably are smarter than 90% of those in this fight because you're no longer 'controlled' by XYZ pharma or one of Fauci's grants to continue your academic work.
Years ago in Britain, at the Univ of London, the researchers who'd first shown that Allisure Allicin (not the baked garlic in the faux hypertension Stanford study) inhibited MRSA growth in vivo (not just in vitro), have been facing all kinds of political hurdles in trying to opt for a wider scale test.
And if you think about it, the South Korean HCQ + Zinc study is not being reproduced here. Instead, it's a HCQ + some antibiotic (which does nothing for a virus) and no separation of the patient populations. So how are these ppl smarter than you? If anything, they have a vested interest in failing in order to kowtow to a more expensive protocol.
At least I'm in finance to make money and fuck hoes. No one can accuse me of being a hypocrite.
66
theoakman
2020 Jul 8, 6:00pm
Dr. Zelenko releases his work: https://www.preprints.org/manuscript/202007.0025/v1
He specifically calls out the fact that all these studies conveniently fail to include Zinc.
Antiviral effects of HCQ are well-documented.19It is also known that chloroquine and probably HCQ have zinc ionophore characteristics, increasing intracellular zinc concentrations.20Zinc itself is able to inhibit coronavirus RNA-dependent RNA polymerase activity (RdRp).21It has beenhypothesized that zinc may enhance the efficacy of HCQ in treating COVID-19 patients.22The first clinical trial results confirmingthis hypothesis wererecently published as preprint.23Nevertheless, many studies with HCQ in monotherapy or in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin have been inconclusive so far.13-16In all of these studies, HCQ was used later than 5days after onset of symptoms when hospitalized patients most likely had already progressed to stage II or III of the disease.6Regardless of the established antiviral effects of zinc and that many COVID-19 patients are prone to zinc deficiencies, dependent on comorbidities and drug treatments,22none of these studies were designed to include zinc supplementation as combination treatment.
He specifically calls out the fact that all these studies conveniently fail to include Zinc.
Antiviral effects of HCQ are well-documented.19It is also known that chloroquine and probably HCQ have zinc ionophore characteristics, increasing intracellular zinc concentrations.20Zinc itself is able to inhibit coronavirus RNA-dependent RNA polymerase activity (RdRp).21It has beenhypothesized that zinc may enhance the efficacy of HCQ in treating COVID-19 patients.22The first clinical trial results confirmingthis hypothesis wererecently published as preprint.23Nevertheless, many studies with HCQ in monotherapy or in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin have been inconclusive so far.13-16In all of these studies, HCQ was used later than 5days after onset of symptoms when hospitalized patients most likely had already progressed to stage II or III of the disease.6Regardless of the established antiviral effects of zinc and that many COVID-19 patients are prone to zinc deficiencies, dependent on comorbidities and drug treatments,22none of these studies were designed to include zinc supplementation as combination treatment.
67
Rin
2020 Jul 8, 6:35pm
Rin
2020 Jul 8, 6:35pm
theoakman says
Thank you. Now, you've dropped that unneeded humility.
The so-called smart ppl in this fight against Covid-19 and any of its future derivatives are paid for by Fauci's NIH grants or big pharma's coffers.
And thus, they are not smart but hypocritical academic/corporate stooges (with just enough intelligence to get through their programs), doing their masters' biddings.
He specifically calls out the fact that all these studies conveniently fail to include Zinc.
Thank you. Now, you've dropped that unneeded humility.
The so-called smart ppl in this fight against Covid-19 and any of its future derivatives are paid for by Fauci's NIH grants or big pharma's coffers.
And thus, they are not smart but hypocritical academic/corporate stooges (with just enough intelligence to get through their programs), doing their masters' biddings.
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