patrick.net

The US could use a bit of inflation right now. It would take care of the national debt and help the majority of US citizens.

I disagree.

The inflation in Venezuela is being caused by too much money chasing too few goods and the reason the supply of goods is so small is because no one wants to produce anything because of fear that Maduro will confiscate it and redistribute it to the people (just like he did with baked goods and toys last Christmas).

There is literally no incentive to produce anything in Venezuela right now.

This is why leftism in America is so dangerous.

Why is Leftism so dangerous?

How is secular Leftism in America more dangerous than Conservatism that has subverted the Constitution by mixing in Church with State? Conservatism has also given us perpetual war, as the true Jihadists(Christians) traverse the globe, fighting their direct competition Islam. Here at home, so called Conservatives have also been waging war against the Citizenry with their Failed War on Drugs, that has costed the taxpayers incalculable waste of the public trust, wrongly imprisoned millions in for profit prisons, and withheld medical flowers from everyone at great harm to the nation.

Leftism is even more dangerous and harmful than those Anti-American, Constitution hating “Conservatives “ right-wingers/Independents (whatever they want to call themselves)?

Goran_K says

Bernie quietly scrubbed his website of all praise towards Chavez/Maduro’s regime.

Do you have any proof of this? Care to provide it, or are people just supposed to take you at your word?

errc says

This is why leftism in America is so dangerous.

Why is Leftism so dangerous?

How is secular Leftism in America more dangerous than Conservatism that has subverted the Constitution by mixing in Church with State? Conservatism has also given us perpetual war, as the true Jihadists(Christians) traverse the globe, fighting their direct competition Islam. Here at home, so called Conservatives have also been waging war against the Citizenry with their Failed War on Drugs, that has costed the taxpayers incalculable waste of the public trust, wrongly imprisoned millions in for profit prisons, and withheld medical flowers from everyone at great harm to the nation.

Leftism is even more dangerous and harmful than those Anti-American, Constitution hating “Conservatives “ right-wingers/Independents (whatever they want to call themselves)?

Those are good points. I never agreed with the War on Drugs. We should let people do what they wish and face the consequences of their actions.

Goran_K says

Venezuela’s inflation rate is astounding

Every country wants to be Numero Uno at something. Venezuela found it's niche.

Maybe you should define Leftism, so people know what you’re talking about

Strategist says

Goran_K says

Venezuela’s inflation rate is astounding

Every country wants to be Numero Uno at something. Venezuela found it's niche.

lol

errc says

Maybe you should define Leftism, so people know what you’re talking about

I’m mostly talking about the third wave feminist and millennial population that thinks free health care/college/birth control are economically feasible without severely crippling the US economy. Basically the socialist who almost gave Bernie the DNC nomination.

Strategist says

Goran_K says

Venezuela’s inflation rate is astounding

Every country wants to be Numero Uno at something. Venezuela found it's niche.

It's what happens when a bus driver with no common sense becomes a dictator.
Even more bizarre....Socialists still support the bus driver with no common sense.

bububut we need to keep giving out freebies to help the GDP.

Goran_K-another Socialist.
How many miles of socialist highway have been built on your tax dollar?
If you didn't build it,STAY OFF of it unless you love Redistribution Socialism.

I'm enjoying your hypocrisy. Hope you are enjoying your leftist "free lunch".

HEY YOU says

How many miles of socialist highway have been built on your tax dollar?

Big difference between public works and wealth redistribution.

anon_3b28c says

The US could use a bit of inflation right now. It would take care of the national debt and help the majority of US citizen

Ina globalized world supported by the democrats and the establishment republicans-how cna there be inflation. We are already at the top int erms of wages and allow almost free import into our country. Why would you make a gidget here if you have to play by the rules of feminazis, workers comp/ lawsuits, all kinds of policies-when you can give it to a sub contractor in China who makes his workers live in dorms, work 7 days a week and only go home a few times a year?

if you wnat all these rules, then importing countries should play by the same rule. leftie darlings like Apple and Obama and the Clintons don't seem to think so.

HEY YOU says

Goran_K-another Socialist.
How many miles of socialist highway have been built on your tax dollar?
If you didn't build it,STAY OFF of it unless you love Redistribution Socialism.

I'm enjoying your hypocrisy. Hope you are enjoying your leftist "free lunch".

Big difference is ownership rights. It’s difficult to assign “road ownership” without restricting the free travel of person or commerce. So it makes sense to socialize public works projects like roads (also the military). That being said there were roads before the Federal income tax. So most taxes are not going to “roads”.

However no one has the right to my nieces services as an orthopedic surgeon. She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.

When you socialize that, she chooses to take her services off the market since it’s no longer worth providing at the state limited price.

Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.

Goran_K says

HEY YOU says

Goran_K-another Socialist.
How many miles of socialist highway have been built on your tax dollar?
If you didn't build it,STAY OFF of it unless you love Redistribution Socialism.

I'm enjoying your hypocrisy. Hope you are enjoying your leftist "free lunch".

Big difference is ownership rights. It’s difficult to assign “road ownership” without restricting the free travel of person or commerce. So it makes sense to socialize public works projects like roads.

However no one has the right to my nieces services as an orthopedic surgeon. She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.

Does she actaully post her price?

theoakman says

Goran_K says

HEY YOU says

Goran_K-another Socialist.
How many miles of socialist highway have been built on your tax dollar?
If you didn't build it,STAY OFF of it unless you love Redistribution Socialism.

I'm enjoying your hypocrisy. Hope you are enjoying your leftist "free lunch".

Big difference is ownership rights. It’s difficult to assign “road ownership” without restricting the free travel of person or commerce. So it makes sense to socialize public works projects like roads.

However no one has the right to my nieces services as an orthopedic surgeon. She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.

Does she actaully post her price?

That’s difficult to do since all procedures are slightly different. What’s the price difference between repairing a spiral fracture of the tibia vs repairing a compound fracture of the shoulder? Depends right? You would have to analyze the damage and difficulty of the repair and treatment.

I see your point though. I do want more transparency into pricing in the health care market where it’s easy to do so.

Goran_K says

She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.

So how does every other 1st world country in the world do it?

anon_3b28c says

Goran_K says

She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.

So how does every other 1st world country in the world do it?

Rationing.

anon_3b28c says

The US could use a bit of inflation right now. It would take care of the national debt and help the majority of US citizens.

How, exactly, would inflation help those who have no debt? Since when was debt a moral thing?

Goran_K says

Rationing.

They must ration pretty well then, as their results beat those in the US by most objective measures.

WorkInProgress says

How, exactly, would inflation help those who have no debt? Since when was debt a moral thing?

The US has a lot of debt.

Goran_K says

Rationing

Everything scarce must be rationed, or succumb to the tragedy of the commons. In capitalistic societies, the production is maximized until the product/demand curve equalizes, with the customers with more money to spend getting to go first. This is fair, as it attempts to give those who have built up more value to society the first crack at the fruits of said society. It ultimately benefits the society as a whole. Where this model breaks down is with restrictive constraints put on the production, where guilds or government mandated monopolies (like patents) allow a producer to restrict production to maximize the cost of their product. This happens all too often in America. In reality, it’s aided and abetted by mass health insurance scheme which will end up paying the inflated prices because they must, and this drives up the cost of insurance. This makes more money available to insurance companies (especially with mandates that one MUST buy insurance a la Obamacare) which means they can pay even more, which means the price of drugs or services can also rise, and so on in a nasty infinite loop.

What’s the solution? Get rid of the mandate immediately. Let people buy whatever insurance they wish. Put controls on drug pricing, such that sheer profiteering is prohibited. Let drugs sold to other countries be allowed to cross the border back to keep prices here competitive instead of a hothouse captive market for the pharmaceutical companies to pluck at will.
Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.

Any scheme that doesn’t address pricing is doomed to fail in a runaway race to the edge of cost insanity.

Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.


Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?

As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.

Pcgyver, stick to debating ideas not people. Last warning.

If you have a personal opinion about someone, including me, just keep it to yourself. The rule applies to everyone and was put into effect by Patrick himself.

We tried the free for all way and that was not working. Give this new way a chance for a few days. You might find that you like it.

PCGyver says

Goran_K says

anon_3b28c says

Goran_K says

She offers that service for a market price, no one owns her services but herself.

So how does every other 1st world country in the world do it?

Rationing.

Does she not ration her service if the price is not right?

True. But that’s a market decision not a decision by the state. That’s a huge difference.

errc says

Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.


Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?

As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.

The cost of healthcare is absolutely crazy. Insurance companies should be allowed to contract with other countries for health care. It's actually much cheaper to fly out to India, Thailand, and Singapore for elective surgeries, than it is to have those surgeries in the US.

errc says

Prices of services and drugs must fall before it will EVER be possible to get everyone fully insured.


Why do you want to get everyone fully insured?

As a Capitalist, I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.

How do you bring down the cost of services and goods?

errc says

I see no good reason to have insurance on people’s health in the first place. It’s very hard to determine how to accurately price individuals health insurance risk, because you have no knowledge of their dietary inputs, which determine potential health care needs.

It's possible to combine both. The CEO of Whole Foods objected to providing employee medical insurance and said it makes more sense to provide healthy food; as a matter of public policy, he said subsidizing healthy food would do more for public health than subsidizing medical insurance. PR-driven controversy followed, and the USA continues to subsidize the most unhealthy foods while also subsidizing medical insurance. If we had actual socialism instead of the lemon socialism that we have now, it would be possible to provide healthy food like the British did during the Blitz and medical care via something like the British NHS. BTW, Britain is mostly capitalist, but Britons live on average longer than Americans while spending less than half as much on actually socialized medicine (NHS) as Americans spend on lemon socialized medicine. The Brits closed the "British restaurants" (cafeterias in tube stations) after the war, but the success provided proof of concept: it is possible actually to feed people healthy food, if you have a unifying dynamic (e.g. an external threat) and clear-eyed resolve (e.g. Churchill) setting policy that works for people.

justme says

Look! There exits a socialist country that has high inflation! Therefore all socialist countries are bad! In fact, any form of socialism is bad!

Countries that only use socialism, with little or no capitalism, are all failures. It's as simple as that. There are zero examples showing otherwise.

justme, keep the personal attacks off the thread.

Goran_K says

Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want.

I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.

Goran_K says

How do you bring down the cost of services and goods?

(1) let people buy drugs from anywhere in the world, without buying permission first. In America, customers are limited to buying the exact number of the exact drug that a paid prescriber wrote, and a pharmacist with 10 years of post-secondary education counts to ten or 30 and types up a label for the bottle. It's the most expensive and labor-intensive method in the world, maximizing cost/revenue, and errors.
(2) budget hospitals the same way as fire departments and police departments, not on a fee-for-service basis. Fund the VA sufficiently to accomplish its mission, and to provide emergency services and vaccines to anyone who shows up.
(3) if you are going to pay private sector providers, do that on the basis of diagnosis, not fee-for-service, and separate the functions of diagnosis and treatment. Otherwise, you end up with an expert service problem, where (for example) a dermatologist can diagnose skin cancer, do a Mohs surgery, discard the tissue sample, leave the patient scarred for life, and bill for the whole thing with no corroboration that the patient had skin cancer to begin with. The current "capitalist" (lemon socialist) system in the USA invites waste, fraud, and abuse, which add up to 30% of spending according to the Institute of Medicine. Personally, I think those categories add up to more than half.

errrc the comment in question is in comment jail, do not repost comments in comment jail back into the thread. If it’s deemed NOT uncivil it will be put back into the thread but do not attempt to circumvent uncivil again. Thank you.

curious2 says

I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.

Interesting points. I find it funny that to get the care we get here in the US and avoid the rationing line for NHS you still end up going to a private clinic.

curious2 says

Goran_K says

Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want.

I haven't seen Canada's wait times, but I know more about the British NHS. How long you wait depends on what you need. If your chief complaint is post nasal drip, then you might have to wait or go to a private clinic, where you'll get probably better results at a fraction of the cost. (From what I've seen, elective ENT surgery in the UK costs less than half what it would cost here, so it can be cheaper to fly there and get the surgery and then fly back.) If you have something obstructing your breathing and creating an emergency, an NHS hospital will take care of you the same day, better than here, and at no cost to you.

Just my meniscus surgery cost me $3,000 total for my out of pocket costs. My Aetna insurance paid most of it. This is ridiculous.
I could have gone to India or Thailand on my own and saved some money. What good is insurance if my deductible is higher than going to an Asian country for treatment?

Explain how the comment was uncivil then. Sounds like a reasonable request, try showing some good faith and answer a question

Goran_K says
Socialized medicine just causes rationing. That’s why Canada’s specialist wait times are now averaging 22 weeks. Me? I can see my ENT doctor same day if I want. That’s the beauty of capitalism.

Goran
Answer this, how long does it take to see an ENT in Canada?
What takes 22 weeks in Canada? Brain surgery? How long is equivalent time in USA?

What is the point in comparing apples to oranges? Do you feel this is an honest way to compare two types of healthcare systems?

My determination for whether it’s a personal attack is when a comment begins to focus negative comments on the individual instead of the idea or point being argued.

If this is too strict, @Patrick can unban PCgyver and justme from politics and I’ll apply the rules differently.

The way I see it from my few days of being a mod, PCgyver, justme, and errr have been getting away with quite a bit already and should have more scrutiny. I didn’t ban errr even though his rant yesterday included a racist insult about my wife’s ethnicity.

Goran_K says

My determination for whether it’s a personal attack is when a comment begins to focus negative comments on the individual instead of the idea or point being argued.

If this is too strict, @Patrick can unban PCgyver and justme from politics and I’ll apply the rules differently.

Do you feel you are making an honest argument when comparing to different aspects of two different health care systems?