patrick.net

Where I live in the central valley almost 50% of homes are underwater. You cant put your home up for sale unless you can pay the bank the difference between what you owe on the mortgage and the sale price. In my opinion most people can't do this. In some instances this amount exceeds a $100,000.00. This to me is the real reason that inventory is down.

darkpassage says

Where I live in the central valley almost 50% of homes are underwater.

And according to certain Weather Channel documentaries, that could be more than just a figure of speech at some point in the near future.

carolinefpf says

Now it has become a very negative group of people who would not buy a house at any price (because they want something for nothing).

Something for nothing? Wow. That is a new take on over inflated housing prices.

So, I am willing to pay 800K for a livable 3 bedroom, 2 bath home about 1500-1700 sqft that is in a safe neighborhood and gives my children the ability to go to decent schools. I guess I am looking to get something for nothing. Wow. 800K! Have you seen that amount of money in bills? Do you even know how long it takes the average family in the BA (yah, in the BA) to save that amount of money? It is not nothing, never was nothing, and never will be nothing.

You, my friend, are clouded with the free money market that has been created to protect the dream world we drifted into in 2007. The one where everyone was a millionaire on paper. The gig is up, and property owners are losing now. Get used to it.

carolinefpf says

By the way "rentingforhalfthe cost" rents are much higher than the payment on a house is right now. Stop kidding yourself. Look at Craigslist.

My rental home would cost me 1.3 million to buy. I know because the owner would love to sell, so is just renting until his prediction of the market returning comes true. That would put my monthly cost at around 5-6K to own this home. Instead, I rent it for 3K. I check craigslist and it just confirms what I already know.

Come live in the BA before you make claims that are untrue.

Goran_K says

Has this lack of inventory kept any of you on the sidelines? I can say for sure it has for me.

We are actively looking. Most weeks there is nothing to see. The open houses we have seen have been packed.

I KNOW there are vacant REOs out there, in the neighborhoods I am interested in buying. I see them go up for auction, not get bought, and then property shark has the homeowner's address listed as the bank's address.

Banks AND homeowners are holding out.

If that is accurate then yes, it would make sense for you to continue to rent. Owning for me is a lifestyle choice in addition to a financial one. I felt very unsettled for the two years we rented. We rented a house that had sold for $950k but it had green carpet and felt like someone else's home (because it was). It felt temporary. I like to be in control and not have to ask if I can have pets or paint or change the disguting carpet or countertops. The landlord took a while to make repairs and choose the cheapest option. The windows were drafty and our utility bills were high. We would have simply replaced the windows if it were our home.
What if your landlord decides to move back in or sell or default, then where will you be? I couldn't live like that.
I do live in the bay area. North bay to be exact. I have never ever had "free money". I put 20% down or more on all of my homes. The 32k one is obviously without financing. I do not have any debt either and live modestly. In 10 years my rentals will be paid off and I will live off the ever increasing rents that my renters will pay. You renters will have to go live in a trailer park since you will find yourself old and still paying rent. I just think all of you housing haters should consider how things have changed since 2005 rather than being locked into a way of thinking out of habit.

carolinefpf says

It felt temporary... I felt very unsettled for the two years we rented.

I'm totally with you on that. In fact now that I've been out of the market for 6 years (bought house in 2000 sold in 2006) I would like to find a place where I can call home where I can raise my two kids. The problem I see is that both my wife and I work very hard but we cannot afford a 1700sqft house in a decent part of San Jose. For the time being I'll pay rent which is the equivelant of what my mortgage would be in Monte Sereno. Like you, there is a lifestyle choice that bears importance here too, especially if you have children.

Caroline I don't think anyone wants to be a perma-renter, and I do agree there are people who make off hand comments that housing is going to crash 60% in places like Cupertino or Manhattan. But it's not a stretch to say housing is over priced in some areas, and that's why YOY prices continue to drop.

Many of us want to own a home, and have cash for a strong 20% or more down payment, but we're not desperate enough to over pay for something that could lose 5% to 10% of its value in a year or so.

This isn't 2005 anymore, that era went, and will be gone forever (or at least until the next housing bubble in 2025).

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Hnj3TkxUefk

carolinefpf says

Individual "in denial" sellers are not a significant driver of prices since they represent a very small percentage of the homes for sale. When I started reading Patrick.net (around 2006) it was the voice of reason. Now it has become a very negative group of people who would not buy a house at any price (because they want something for nothing). I consider this reverse greed.

For every action there is a reaction. Greed of the sellers & real estate agents has now turned against them.

carolinefpf says

I will live off the ever increasing rents that my renters will pay.

Before it was that homes will always go up. Now the mantra is rent will always go up. You sheeple are so foolish it's comedy.

Rental markets will also crash in time.

carolinefpf says

By the way "rentingforhalfthe cost" rents are much higher than the payment on a house is right now. Stop kidding yourself. Look at Craigslist.

Rents are only high because of the infinite number of retards who bought how much the realtard & mortgage broketard told them. They then were foreclosed upon like a retard.

And now they are the rentards who have driven up the cost of renting.

But another extremely significant factor of rents going up is because of PROPERTY TAXES. They have gone up more in pretty much every place in the US than what they were in 2005.

But even if renting maybe more than a mortgage - it is still smarter to rent and have no debt on a depreciating asset with ever increasing property taxes, utilities and maintenance.

Not to mention the changing conditions within the job market which requires people to move around very frequently in current times.

I think YOU should stop kidding yourself.

Not to mention how many retards are renting an illegal portion of their homes because they can't afford the property taxes, mortgage & utilities on their home.

carolinefpf says

rates are low

It well known in the mortgage industry that when rates are low, the prices are high and it is NOT the time to buy.

But regardless your logic is extremely uneducated, uninformed & repetitive of what a realtard would tell you.

Why? Because rates were also low in 2004-2007. Therefore, your reasoning is completely false and extremely dangerous advice.

carolinefpf says

Now it has become a very negative group of people who would not buy a house at any price (because they want something for nothing).

No. The people who bought with no down-payment (even no closing costs) wanted something for nothing.

carolinefpf says

Well priced properties ARE receiving multiple offers, they always do since everyone wants a deal.

Which ends up making it a horrible deal.

But again, your logic that just because the prices currently asked are the true prices is well again incredibly foolish.

In 2005, properties received multiple offers as well. Were those well-priced too since they received multiple offers?

Your advice and thinking is very much faulted but also dangerous.

carolinefpf says

All real estate agents are not unethical, in fact most are not.

Intention has nothing to do with it. As long as you are in the mafia - you are a scumbag period.

The National Association of Realtors forces you to be a parasite.

carolinefpf says

The banks are the real villans here.

And the banks could have never been the villains without the infiltration & cooperation of the realtard profession along with it's National Association of Realtards organization.

carolinefpf says

It is actually very difficult to be successful selling homes

And it is incredibly easy to began selling homes with no barriers which prevent incompetent people from advising people financially and/or handling big financial decisions/transactions.

Realtards do not have a proper regulation requiring them to be trained. The competence standards are EXTREMELY low.

Therefore I have no sympathy that it's hard to sell homes. Of course it will be hard.

But regardless most people are crappy salespeople and do not understand marketing, advertising along with influencing people. Only few people have the skill. You need to be trained well and I mean WELL. Very few people will be naturally talented at it. And even those who are well-trained or possess natural talent will find that they still have to work at it.

Being a salesmen or saleswoman is not a get-rich quick loophole. Trust, reputation and credibility is key. That does not come for free, you must work persistently to gain these qualities.

carolinefpf says

For the record I am not a real estate agent. I am a general contractor who works with agents to make repairs to homes that are for sale.

Does not matter if you are a realtard. You still have a motive as a general contractor. It's like saying I'm not a lawyer but I'm a judge. A judge will still have the same motives.

carolinefpf says

I would buy as many houses as I could right now

And it would be the same as buying as many cars as possible. Homes are a CONSUMABLE good. It is shelter. When will you sheeple understand this?

If you are looking for a buying real estate as an investment. Consider buying COMMERCIAL real estate NOT residential real estate for god sakes.

Consider buying rental BUILDINGS not homes. Hotels, Motels, commercial building for business, office buildings etc etc...

Investing in homes is dead. The game is over in this.

carolinefpf says

They pay for everything else out of what they gross. Office supplies, advertising, gas, insurance, health insurance, cell phone, etc.

So do business owners. Realtards want freedom of being almost self-employed than they have to pay the price of it.

If realtards want to make more money they should consider being real estate brokers and mortgage brokers. They should own their own brokerage firm for real estate. That's what the smart ones do. Brokerage firms are a solid business.

Nothing is for free. Any career requiring no hard work will give little in return.

glass.torch says

Just wait untill the 26 billon dollar bribe to the state AG's makes it thru the python and they are "clean" again. What do you think will happen to inventory once they are absolved of wrong doing?

I read an article online this last week saying how deal-a-turds(R) are afraid of what will happen if prices rise a little... massive inventory.

So go ahead and buy 'em all up now. Saves me from more taxpayer bailouts in the future. PLEASE BUY NOW so I can wait for the huge shadow inverntory coming and I won't have to compete with blowhards.

Finally we have someone who can actually THINK. +1

RentingForHalfTheCost says

My rental home would cost me 1.3 million to buy. I know because the owner would love to sell, so is just renting until his prediction of the market returning comes true. That would put my monthly cost at around 5-6K to own this home. Instead, I rent it for 3K. I check craigslist and it just confirms what I already know.

Come live in the BA before you make claims that are untrue

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Something for nothing? Wow. That is a new take on over inflated housing prices.

So, I am willing to pay 800K for a livable 3 bedroom, 2 bath home about 1500-1700 sqft that is in a safe neighborhood and gives my children the ability to go to decent schools. I guess I am looking to get something for nothing. Wow. 800K! Have you seen that amount of money in bills? Do you even know how long it takes the average family in the BA (yah, in the BA) to save that amount of money? It is not nothing, never was nothing, and never will be nothing.

You, my friend, are clouded with the free money market that has been created to protect the dream world we drifted into in 2007. The one where everyone was a millionaire on paper. The gig is up, and property owners are losing now. Get used to it.

I love it when sheep get put in their place like Rothschild Slaves. +1

carolinefpf says

You renters will have to go live in a trailer park since you will find yourself old and still paying rent.

Even a homeowner is still a renter because of property taxes that keep increasing. Property rights were waived a long time ago. Maintaining a property is not cheap either and not mention many old people do not want to deal with it.

When the true crash comes & property tax supporters get put in their place, renting will be so cheap it will be much more financially smart to rent.

And there is nothing wrong with living in a trailer.

carolinefpf says

I like to be in control and not have to ask if I can have pets or paint or change the disguting carpet or countertops. The landlord took a while to make repairs and choose the cheapest option. The windows were drafty and our utility bills were high. We would have simply replaced the windows if it were our home.

Very poor justification to advise people why they should make the biggest financial mistake in their life.

Renting by the way is not for only poor people. Only sheep with no brain think that.

carolinefpf says

What if your landlord decides to move back in or sell or default, then where will you be? I couldn't live like that.

What if the village and school union decides they want suck the blood out of you because they want to pay their useless staff more money to be useless in the form of property taxes on your home? Many people couldn't live like that.

What if a natural disaster in the form a turd hits your home - destroying everything? Many people couldn't live like that. Insurance is just another expense. Not many people losing a shit load of money if you don't have insurance could live like that.

What if I lose my job and my credit becomes shot because I can't pay the bankers, how will that reflect my chances of getting a job with a credit like that? Many people couldn't live like that.

What If I pay more than what the asset is worth? Many people couldn't live like that.

Your justifications are for wussies when it comes to buying. Owning has far far far more worries than renting ever will.

If owning is right for you than GREAT but it's wrong and extremely irresponsible not to mention dangerous to assert that buying is smarter.

Buying has become more like rent plus the liabilities of an owner. It has become for a lot of people a lose-lose proposition.

carolinefpf says

our utility bills were high.

And that wouldn't make a difference if you owned the place, either.

carolinefpf says

I have never ever had "free money". I put 20% down or more on all of my homes.

Low interest rates is very close to free money.

carolinefpf says

I do not have any debt either.

Most people who own will not be debt free and an outlier is not the rule.

carolinefpf says

I just think all of you housing haters should consider how things have changed since 2005 rather than being locked into a way of thinking out of habit.

Nothing has changed since 2005 except idiots trying to fight the consequences of their actions in 2005.

The bubble mentality has not fully died. It is being defended until these morons get slaughtered by reality which will eventually come to pass whether they like it or not.

Blood in the streets will first have to come before this housing market becomes sane.

@carolinefpf

In my area Spring is the season or Realtor and Sellers to get boners and have open houses. Lots of over priced homes turn up on the MLS. Some that have been sitting for almost a year even dare to raise prices.

It's also the season buyers ignore the market. Same has happened past three years. See you guys in October. I wonder what the elections will do. Maybe see you in February 2013. By then I will have about 60% down payt. ready. Take your time with your denial.

Icabod says

In my area Spring is the season or Realtor and Sellers to get boners and have open houses. Lots of over priced homes turn up on the MLS. Some that have been sitting for almost a year even dare to raise prices.

It's also the season buyers ignore the market. Same has happened past three years. See you guys in October. I wonder what the elections will do. Maybe see you in February 2013. By then I will have about 60% down payt. ready. Take your time with your denial.

Yeah, I think patience is a virtue in this case. I had 30% down in 2008, and thought I might jump in then. Then 2009 came and the tax credit caused a frenzy. Now it's 2012, and I'm considering not even trying to finance (even with the free money).

Goran_K says

I'm considering not even trying to finance (even with the free money).

CASH,way to go! Screw the bankers.

bubblesitter says

Goran_K says

I'm considering not even trying to finance (even with the free money).

CASH,way to go! Screw the bankers.

NO!

Please take out a mortgage from J.P. Morgan Chase...

I want to suck the blood out of your soul...

RentingForHalfTheCost says

My rental home would cost me 1.3 million to buy. I know because the owner would love to sell, so is just renting until his prediction of the market returning comes true. That would put my monthly cost at around 5-6K to own this home. Instead, I rent it for 3K. I check craigslist and it just confirms what I already know.

Assuming I did my calculations correctly, you're effectively getting a $1.3 million mortgage loan for only 2.77%. Plus, your property taxes, maintenance, and insurance are included! And you can leave anytime you want w/o the hassle of selling.

Good for you!

Nonetheless this Rust Belt Boy can't even imagine spending $3k a month on shelter. Ouch!

Yeah $3k is steep but then again I'm not a baller.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I love it when sheep get put in their place like Rothschild Slaves. +1

You just sound rude and angry, if you hate the idea of buying a house then why do you read and post on forums like this. Interestingly, the real estate that agents post on forums do not contain rude, rants containing profanity. I am just saying that rather than being "a sheep" in the opposite direction since housing is in a downward cycle consider that perhaps it is a good time to buy. The sheep bought houses in the bubble years but the bubble has popped and now you can buy at 20% of peak pricing in some areas. Don't get locked in to one way of thinking and miss possible opportunity. Or perhaps that is why you are so angry. You wouldn't rent a car long term so why rent a house? Cars need repairs and loose value and untimately end up on the junkyard. Perhaps, we should all rent cars just to avoid responsibility?

Scott says

I went to a few open houses this weekend in the south bay are and inventory is down alot. Realtors claim they are all getting asking price and perhaps a little over but I take that with a grain of salt.

Houses are still just too expensive.

The foreclosure that went up for sale down the street from us a week ago is already pending. I think a Chinese investor bought it.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

carolinefpf says

I will live off the ever increasing rents that my renters will pay.

Before it was that homes will always go up. Now the mantra is rent will always go up. You sheeple are so foolish it's comedy.

Rental markets will also crash in time.

Member of Banking Aristocracy

Not in the Bay Area they won't. There's too much money already here and too many Asians bringing in even more.

This isn't the east coast. It's almost a different country.

carolinefpf says

You wouldn't rent a car long term so why rent a house? Cars need repairs and loose value and untimately end up on the junkyard. Perhaps, we should all rent cars just to avoid responsibility?

Some people do "rent" cars long term. It's called "leasing." For some people, it's the more sensible option. Plenty of perfectly sane, sensible, rational people rent cars for long term.

I don't think anyone on this forum is saying it's always better to rent. It's just that in many areas it's cheaper to rent than buy. Patrick has a "rent vs. buy" calculator to determine which is the better option, given certain assumptions.

rootvg says

Not in the Bay Area they won't. There's too much money already... It's almost a different country.

I really think this is true. There are so many people in the bay area that have dual 6 figure incomes that scoop up $800k+ houses like they are nothing making no reason for sellers to lower their prices. In the

Sorry last post got cut off with an HTML character.

rootvg says

Not in the Bay Area they won't. There's too much money already... It's almost a different country.

I really think this is true. There are so many people in the bay area that have dual 6 figure incomes that scoop up $800k+ houses like they are nothing making no reason for sellers to lower their prices. In the less than $800k prices there has been more price reductions (the house I sold in 2006 for $700k is worth less now than when I bought it in 2000). The traditional family middle income buy a house, raise a family in the bay area is dead because of all the tech jobs here! Most families in the newer generations have both parents working to "get ahead" but I believe this inadvertently gave them more buying power which eventually brought prices up and also keep houses in the middle-high to high income areas from dropping much if at all.

carolinefpf says

You just sound rude and angry, if you hate the idea of buying a house then why do you read and post on forums like this.

You just sound gullible, ignorant and naive. If you hate the idea of the of housing market being torn a new hole, then why do YOU read and post on forums like this.

After all my dear, this forum is about exposing the realtards unethical behavior and the misconceptions about the housing market.

It's about informing buyers from misinformation, propaganda & fraud in the housing market.

When you post misinformation, don't expect to get away with it on this forum.

carolinefpf says

Interestingly, the real estate that agents post on forums do not contain rude, rants containing profanity.

Rants? More like corrections on your very misinformed thinking. You can't counter them so you try to label them as "rude rants".

If you can't back it up when someone counter argues them, then don't put it out in the first place.

But what does this have to do with real estate agents not being "rude" and "profane" which automatically deems them morally superior or as good people?

I'm sure Bernie Madoff was also very polite to his prospective suckers. What point are you trying to make?

carolinefpf says

I am just saying that rather than being "a sheep" in the opposite direction since housing is in a downward cycle consider that perhaps it is a good time to buy.

Only sheep think that it's the the bottom.

carolinefpf says

The sheep bought houses in the bubble years but the bubble has popped and now you can buy at 20% of peak pricing in some areas.

The bubble has nowhere near popped. So what if I can buy 20-30% of peak? Housing went up 3-4 times more than it should have from one of it's lowest prices in a extremely short period of time. 20-30% off from peak is NOTHING.

carolinefpf says

Don't get locked in to one way of thinking and miss possible opportunity. Or perhaps that is why you are so angry.

Now you are making financial assumptions about someone you don't know.

That's a personal insult you are making because none of the counter arguments I made you can actually address. So you resort to personal insults based upon speculating that they are true...

Which in fact they are not. I'm a cash buyer... And can buy immediately. But guess what? I don't want too.

carolinefpf says

You wouldn't rent a car long term so why rent a house? Cars need repairs and loose value and untimately end up on the junkyard. Perhaps, we should all rent cars just to avoid responsibility?

Plenty of people rent cars long term to avoid exactly what you described.

But that's besides the point, you are comparing two completely different things that are made completely different and for different purposes. Along with having different operating, repair and maintenance costs due to their different designed uses.

I suggest you improve your intelligence and understanding of things. It will do you good.

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

The sheep bought houses in the bubble years but the bubble has popped and now you can buy at 20% of peak pricing in some areas.

The bubble has nowhere near popped. So what if I can buy 20-30% of peak? Housing went up 3-4 times more than it should have from one of it's lowest prices in a extremely short period of time. 20-30% off from peak is NOTHING

I said 20-30% OF peak not OFF peak. For example my house that I bought for $32k formerly sold for $255k. I think it was a pretty good deal, (in three years I will have collected rent enough to reinburse me for the purchase price). My expense (the interest portion of my payment is around $1500) My house would rent for around $3000 per month. I am in California so we have proposition 13 so property tax does not increase with house values. It is about 1% per year.
Anyway, I like that house prices are decreasing and agree it was crazy in 2005 not in a good way. I also think that it is good for those people who bought with no money down to have to leave the houses that they bought. Not that I would wish that upon anyone but I think most of them are relieved when it is finally over. Markets are cyclical they go up and they go down. Houses will go up again in the "bubble of 2025" someone said. People forget. I bought my first house in 1996 towards the end of the last housing downturn. I am glad I didn't listen to the naysayers (sheep as you call them)then. Sold in 2006 (glad i didn't listen to the sheep then). I have been buying,leasing and selling houses (quite successfully I may add) since 1996, how many personal transactions are your opinions based upon? And seriously renting or leasing a car is very foolish financially unless you would repeatedly buy new cars (which is also foolish)

Robber Baron Elite Scum says

I suggest you improve your intelligence and understanding of things. It will do you good.

Anyway, keep your money in your pillowcase. Let me know when prices have bottomed since you have your finger on the pulse of the market. Keep us informed!!

carolinefpf says

Anyway, keep your money in your pillowcase.

Always better and safer than in the bank.

carolinefpf says

I said 20-30% OF peak not OFF peak. For example my house that I bought for $32k formerly sold for $255k.

You will never get that price in New York. Especially in places such as Long Island or Manhattan.

Clearly you are talking about a different area. carolinefpf says

And seriously renting or leasing a car is very foolish financially unless you would repeatedly buy new cars (which is also foolish)

Wow. I never even said renting cars was financially prudent or smart. You really need cut it out with your nonsense.

carolinefpf says

how many personal transactions are your opinions based upon?

Bought a home in 1994 for $100,000 fully paid. Sold in 2005 for $450,000.

Bought a home in 2004 for $710,000 fully paid. Sold the home in 2009 for $699,000.

The price I bought for in 2005 was a underground deal. The home didn't need any work and was in perfect condition. It was a deal the average buyer would have never been able to get.

And I didn't put any work into it which would explain close to no loss from selling in 2009.

PS. Lose the attitude.