patrick.net

CaptainShuddup says

Not so, if there weren't any closed primaries in 2008 who do you think would have won, Dennis Kucinich or a tight race between Clinton and Obama? If the 38% of the registered voting population had their say?
And be honest not with me but your self.

That's old history not pertinent to today's discussion.

Then your situation is underestimated.

CaptainShuddup says

Then your situation is underestimated.

This isn't "my" situation. Its a situation for the GOP.

So Karl Rove who pushed for Romney is now part of the Liberal Media? What a brilliant deep cover working for Bush and Fox News!!!

You seriously think Santorum and his ilk were stronger candidates? Nice little fantasy world you've got going.

Errcc you should read his post more carefully. This is responsive to all the post election threads by some of the conservatives.

CaptainShuddup says

Romney was selected by the Liberal media to run against Obama.

That is why Ron Paul scared the living shit out of the Liberals and Republican political machine. Ron Paul was called names his issues were taken out of context lies were spread about him. By primary voting day came around, the republican voters all said, "Hell no, I'm not voting for Ron Paul, he's crazy" But when you asked them why they thought that way, the only thing they could tell you, is what some news pundit said.

But then with in a month after Romney won the Primaries and was the official candidate, almost all of those same people said, "I wish Ron Paul would have won he would have been better for this country, and had a better shot at beating Obama."

Absolutely, it all depends on the support from the giant party machine and their money (dems or repub). If Ron Paul had had that support and would not have been discredited and marginalized by the media, he would have blown away Obama.

edvard2 says

This isn't "my" situation. Its a situation for the GOP.

What situation?
What is this constant urge to have this fantasy that somehow Obama just by a cunt hair,(*Of the popular vote) and that is some clear message that the Republicans are dead?

*Speaking of popular vote, I would have just loved to hear the pissing and moaning had Romney won the Electorate vote, and Obama won the popular vote by 1% or less, a million votes or so.
The Liberorld would be ablaze with pissing and moaning the likes of the world has never seen since Bush gave Gore a good old fashioned ass spanking with the electorate vote. But that's all forgotten now, and you keep calling the electorate vote a landslide. But then again, it shouldn't be a surprise the Liberals have a new found love for the Electorate vote.
Since 2000 they've created this Red State Blue state nonsense and prescribed the majority of those votes to the blue states. California 55 votes, "REALLY?".

Democrats are only 32% of the registered voter population so get over your self.

Me on the other hand the Nader Voters we matter, we decide which of the two shit birds get elected, even if we don't get to chose the two shit birds. But that is going to change by 2014.

CaptainShuddup says

What situation?

... I believe that comic above basically summed it all up nicely. Take a read. That's exactly the situation the GOP is in and why they need to change. Otherwise- wash-rinse-repeat.

You live in a cartoon world if you want, but I'll pick my own comics.
I like the one where Obama looks like the Joker.

mell says

If Ron Paul had had that support and would not have been discredited and marginalized by the media, he would have blown away Obama

No-government conservatism -- a return to the 19th century -- is the opposite of "progressive" and any national candidate with that message will, in fact, never get anywhere.

What the election did show is that the christian fundamentalist -- people wanting a return to the 17th century -- voting bloc did show up at 26% of the electorate. This is significant, though it is overweighted in the Bible Belt and thus does not particularly help conservatives (to that degree) in the swing states.

Obama ran the table on the swing states, showing that conservative messaging -- you are the problem and must die -- simply does not fly in the post-Enlightenment part of the country.

California was a good test of 3rd party strengths since these voters were free to show their preferences without throwing the national election.

Barack Obama 6,414,573
59.3% (centrist)

Mitt Romney 4,136,120
38.3% (severely conservative)

Gary Johnson (LIB) 115,068
1.1% (corporate libertarian)

Thomas Hoefling (AI) 31,297
0.3% (radical right wing)

Jill Stein (GRN) 68,301
0.6% (leftist)

Roseanne Barr (P&F) 42,970
0.4% (nutball left)

CaptainShuddup says

You live in a cartoon world if you want, but I'll pick my own comics.
I like the one where Obama looks like the Joker.

I like comics as well, Especially where Obama won the election despite the continual spouting of utter nonsense from the right.

Oh- and I almost forgot... Obama won. Get used to it.

funny comics...

lets look at Democracy per Liberals view of Modern World

not a very happy crowd...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cncbOEoQbOg

CaptainShuddup says

If you're wondering how Obama got 50% of the vote, and Romney got 48%, where did that other 2% go

They went to Gary Johnson, who wanted to impose a 23% national sales tax instead of income tax.

Roseanne Barr got some votes too.

Bellingham Bill says

No-government conservatism -- a return to the 19th century -- is the opposite of "progressive" and would any national candidate with that message will, in fact, never get anywhere.

Not in a system where Two parties are controlled by zealot hardliners and freethinking voters are excluded from participating in making the distinction of who ends up on the tickets. Christ what part about this travesty do you Liberals not get.

Obama was Wagged into office, he wasn't the peoples choice, he was merely presented by a group of people for another group of people to chose between him or an equally ill suited Asslot chosen by another round political cretins.

We got chose between eating a Shit sandwich or a douche, but we didn't create the grocery list nor participated in the store run.

Bellingham Bill says

What the election did show is that the fundamentalist -- people wanting a return to the 17th century -- voting bloc did show up at 26% of the electorate. This is significant, though it is overweighted in the Bible Belt and thus does not particularly help conservatives (to that degree) in the swing states.

Conservative values have nothing to do with returning to 17th century.

We here in Silicon Valley back in the 70s and 80s .. the bastion of advanced technology and leaping into the 21st century were predominate GOP. So where were the liberals/dems doing at that time. Nothing..getting stoned, drunk and protesting.

The so called Progressive movement were to busy striking at schools and at work. while the real progressives went on to their Engineering and Business classes create, later to create business/industries, employing many workers creating a better society and move modern world forward.

Are you really fucking proud of yourself. ... What have you done lately ?

Yea.. you guys did that.

CaptainShuddup says

Obama was Wagged into office, he wasn't the peoples choice, he was merely presented by a group of people for another group of people to chose between him or an equally ill suited Asslot chosen by another round political cretins

The majority of Americans who voted Obama into office would disagree. Obama won because he was the President people wanted. See? That's the lovely thing about the government our dear, beloved founding fathers put into place: Its a democracy. So if Obama won, then he won because that's who we the people wanted.

Bottom line: Obama won. Trying to formulate bizarre reasons otherwise is counterproductive.

thomaswong.1986 says

Nothing..getting stoned, drunk and protestin

Yet another grossly oversimplified stereotype, stated as fact, and for the most part unappetizing to the very people the GOP needs to start appealing to if they even hope of having a chance in the future. Like I said before- It can no longer be business as usual. The GOP can no longer blame others instead of solving problems.

edvard2 says

Obama won because he was the President people wanted. See?

There's no place like home... there's no place like home...
Step into the light Dorthy!

Melmakian says

When O only won by 470,000 votes across just 4 states, it is YOU who are clueless...not us.

Ah yes- with that comes the convenient lack of mention of the electoral count. That's what matters most. But then again that would show just how badly Romney lost the race and hence make mentioning this supposedly close race claim invalid. So I'll just leave it at that.

But hey- like I said- the GOP and apparently a lot of their followers don't understand why they lost. That's totally fine with me. So as long as we continue to hear bizarre, strange comments about communism/socialism, obviously parroted statements from right wing entertainment ( notice I didn't say news or media), and other laughable statements, then that to me is a barometer of how much success the Democrats will have in future elections. We keep hearing that stuff and ta-da, Democrats will continue to keep right on winning.

CaptainShuddup says

There's no place like home... there's no place like home...
Step into the light Dorthy!

Are you arguing that the President didn't win the election or that he didn't get the votes he received that put him into the white house? If so, please do all of us a favor here and explain. We are listening.

Melmakian says

When O only won by 470,000 votes across just 4 states, it is YOU who are clueless...not us.

If it were the Liberals on the shitty end of the stick, the whole world would be suffering through Algoritis. As the Liberal bellyaching machine would be high gear trying to get the highest courts in the land to do a do-over.

CaptainShuddup says

As the Liberal bellyaching machine would be high gear trying to get the highest courts in the land to do a do-over.

I am unaware of a "Liberal bellyaching machine". Especially seeing as how the Democrats won. On the other hand I have heard of a huge lake... the Lake of GOP sorrow where their tears from losing the election are overwhelming its capacity...

edvard2 says

Are you arguing that the President didn't win the election

No not at all, I'm just trying to bring you back down to reality that he barely won against a man he should have won by more than 75% of the popular votes. If he was half the ass pimple you claim he is.

CaptainShuddup says

No not at all, I'm just trying to bring you back down to reality that he barely won against a man he should have won by more than 75% of the popular votes

Why does this even matter? He won. If he had won by more he would have still won. But hey- if that makes some of you feel better- that he won by a few points in the popular vote ( even though he basically pulled off a landslide in the electoral vote- you know- the one that really matters?) then sure- ok... whatever...

edvard2 says

the Lake of GOP sorrow where their tears from losing the election

They got fucking STOMPED in the Senate, losing ONE THIRD of the seats they had up.

Now, in one race the right-wingers did actually outnumber the Dem winner -- Montana, where 30,000 of the unabomber contingent there voted libertarian, handing the election to the centrist Democrat (who won by 20,000 votes).

edvard2 says

Why does this even matter?

edvard2 says

he won by a few points in the popular vote

... against Mitt Fucking Romney. So you see the Republicans aren't under any threat. Just in the Liberal mind. And perhaps Obama's second term will be a good thing. It was Clinton's second term, that made America reckon that an Oil Man from Texas that calls it New-Queue-Lehr seem like a logical bet.

Bellingham Bill says

They got fucking STOMPED in the Senate, losing ONE THIRD of the seats they had up.

Unfortunately this is not true. Democrats gained a whopping two seats in the Senate bringing the balance of power to

53 Democrats
45 Republicans
2 Independent

Even if the independents vote along democratic lines, that's only 55 to 45. To prevent the GOP from filibustering everything, the Democrats need 60 seats. I'm afraid we're in the exact same situation we were in before the election.

Had the Democrats gotten 60 seats, Obama's second term would have far greater potential to get shit done.

CaptainShuddup says

... against Mitt Fucking Romney. So you see the Republicans aren't under any threat. Just in the Liberal mind.

Yes... there is absolutely nothing wrong with the GOP. Why- they should continue to do exactly as they have been doing. I totally feel that they wrongfully lost the election. It was because of those no-good stinkin' liberals. The GOP should continue to not change at all.I totally agree!

Dan8267 says

Had the Democrats gotten 60 seats, Obama's second term would have far greater potential to get shit done.

Does this mean 4 more years of Obama's follies being the Republican's fault. Those pesky republicans they wont let the Liberals do nuffin'.

Dan8267 says

Democrats gained a whopping two seats in the Senate

Dude, the most they could have gained was 10.

3/10 is pretty good, and NOT losing 20/21 of the seats they had up was phenomenal.

For a putatively reality-driven person you tend to have astonishingly defective thinking from time to time.

Dan8267 says

To prevent the GOP from filibustering everything, the Democrats need 60 seats

Actually, the senate rules can be changed.

But as long as the House is controlled by Republicans, that would only help for getting appointments through and ratifying treaties.

The House has an absolute veto on what legislation can get to the President.

Now, without the filibuster the Senate can make more PR votes to show the electorate what kind of legislation democrats would like to enact, but this is pretty inside-baseball and nobody really follows this stuff to that detail, other than people who argue on the internet all day.

The GOP savior will be Bobby Jindal. He will pick Marco Rubio as the VP. What a ticket! That will fracture the minority block like a clusterbomb!

CaptainShuddup says

Bellingham Bill says

No-government conservatism -- a return to the 19th century -- is the opposite of "progressive" and would any national candidate with that message will, in fact, never get anywhere.

Not in a system where Two parties are controlled by zealot hardliners and freethinking voters are excluded from participating in making the distinction of who ends up on the tickets. Christ what part about this travesty do you Liberals not get.

Obama was Wagged into office, he wasn't the peoples choice, he was merely presented by a group of people for another group of people to chose between him or an equally ill suited Asslot chosen by another round political cretins.

We got chose between eating a Shit sandwich or a douche, but we didn't create the grocery list nor participated in the store run.

Correct. I think Ron Paul could have equally catered to Christian voters at least on a personal level, he just didn't get supported and in fact was defamed on multiple occasions. Sure it is a bit simplistic to say he would have won, but with the right media coverage and support he could have gotten a coalition of conservative/christian and libertarian/liberal-independent voters plus some disgruntled democrats. But the way the two big juggernaut parties and the media control the political landscape, this country might be ruled by more of the same for another while.

> Christ what part about this travesty do you Liberals not get.

the part where there's clearly only 146,365 nutjobs like you in my state.

http://vote.sos.ca.gov/returns/president/

you guys are big on the internet, almost non-existent at the ballot box, even when you have the full opportunity to vote as if we had IRV elections.

The state I might bail to is also interesting:

Barack Obama 55.86%
1,648,715

Mitt Romney 41.68%
1,230,033

Gary Johnson 1.31%
38,731

Jill Stein 0.64%
18,871

Virgil Goode 0.28%
8,262

1.6% of the vote -- one out of 60 voters. Good luck with that.

http://vote.wa.gov/results/current/President-Vice-President.html

edvard2 says

I see the forum this morning is ripe with a heapin' helpin' of right-wing posts as usual. So here is a special announcement:

Obama won.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program...

Yeah, but rootvg never returned. At least wing-nuts like the Captain have the courage to stay here.

OK, but Gary Johnson was an exceptionally weak candidate who was not that much different from the 2 main contenders and flip-flopped on a lot of topics, e.g. he said nobody committed any crimes during the financial crisis - yeah right, why not vote for one of the 2 main stooges then? No difference.

Admittedly, had Ron Paul been on the ballot in WA, he'd have cleared 1/5th or more.

Kinda like Perot in 1992 (he got 24% of the vote).

Ron Paul did have the social conservative bona fides, but his isolationist stuff works against the big-military, pro-Israel, and pro-Empire part of conservatism, which are pretty big interest groups.

One of the strongest supporters of Republicans -- along with white evangelicals and billionaires -- is the Orthodox Jew vote, at 78% support. (and White Evangelicals and Orthodox Jews share the same love of Israel, of course)

But let's just say that Boeing workers are not that hot on Ron Paul . . .

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000100

Bellingham Bill says

Dan8267 says

To prevent the GOP from filibustering everything, the Democrats need 60 seats

Actually, the senate rules can be changed.

Oh, I'm all for that. I just don't think that's going to happen any time soon. So Democrats really needed to get 60 seats.