patrick.net

I hope Randy changes his decision. This is a blog. A very few of us know each other personally so an issue shouldn't be that personal. Randy, you need to be indifferent to people who have problems with in blogs.

Now coming back to the mortgage loan issue. I think it's little overstated. I can give you guys some real experience. Let me tell you, anybody with above 720 FICO and loan to debt ratio should qualify for loan just fine with 5-10% down payment. If you have any doubt I can provide you the phone number of a couple of mortgage brokers if you need to close a loan.

A friend of mine bought a house (not in bay area) and closed a loan last friday. The purchase price was 510,000. He did a 80+15+5 loan. 80% 1st, 15% 2nd and 5% down. The 1st was for 408000 at 6.67% and the 2nd was for 8.25%. It's still not a jumbo loan as the 1st is below 417000.

A lot of Credit Unions are offering Jumbo 1st mortgages at the same rate as non Jumbo as long as you have 720 FICO. Please check out www.dcu.org.

Only people who are suffering are ones with not so good FICO scores. The rest are doing fine.

I'm actually going to call the loan agent I was talking to back in Feb. when I started looking for a hosue to buy, and then lost my mind at the prices. I'll see if he's still willing to drop a huge chunk of money on us. We have 250k+ down payment, good credit, and two techy workerbee jobs, so it should be a decent test case.

Isn't this on the "Gold Coast" of New Jersey? Deep discounts? Swollen inventory? Ohhhh, Donald - where are you?

http://money.cnn.com/2007/09/13/real_estate/hovnian_discounts.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007091317

The site I use to check current rates is Wells Fargo.

From experience they are the most honest about rates, you have to look at the APR not the Int rate, if you have an int rate lower than apr there are points being paid so dont look at int rate. BankRate sux is for mortgage rates IMO from my experence, probably due to broker bait/switch games.

https://www.wellsfargo.com/mortgage/rates/

The rate I watch is the 30 YR fixed Jumbo APR which is now at 7.6% on wells. It went over 7% for the first time since 2001 in August. Thats a huge huge development. Now why dont CD's pay 7% like in 2001?

You can play around with this eloan link to see the rate difference between jumbo loans, etc:

http://www.eloan.com/s/show/quoteinput?context=purch&purpose=purch&nextbtn=1&sid=K3NgUSb5mywyKWHQLwvNB4UebWI&user=ink&mcode=inkkw3ll8

HelloKitty,

If you have above 720 FICO and low loan to debt you could do better than Wells Fargo.

Check out http://www.dcu.org/mortgage_he/index.html

I have a mortage loan through them. Their APR on JUMBO is 6.37% as of today and it's easy to become member.

It's 6.37 APR on 30 Year Fixed JUMBO with 1 upfront point and 6.62% APR on 30 Year Fixed JUMBO with NO upfront point.

Randy takes himself too seriously, gives himself too much importance. C'mon, who here "hates" Randy H? Hate is a strong word.

Pulling that stunt off is very childish. I'm sure all of us here will just move on and soon forget about him completely.

Check this one, http://patelco.org/rates/fixed_rates.aspx

They are offering 6.625 on 30 Year fixed rate JUMBO up to 1 million.

We seem to be getting quotes all over the board here, which I guess is not a surprise in a market in transition. If any L.O. is reading, and has a rate sheet handy, should be able to quote Fico/down/rate options for a few combinations...

All those Jumbo loan offers you are posting here are going to disappear eventually; and don't think just because they are advertising it means that you will get it. There are still ads like this one out there that stae you can get a 3.8% loan (bad credit ok) when it is obvious (I hope anyway) you can not.

It does seem that they want to throw money at it the problem regardless of what will become of the dollar; this is what scares me.

Allah,

The links I posted are from Credit Unions and they generally don't lie. I have loans through them. Nobody knows what will happen tomorrow, I am only talking about today. You can assume whatever you want about tomorrow's doom and gloom but that doesn't change today's facts.

OT aside to DinOR,

I think I knew 'or should have known' you're a musician, long as I've been reading here. So much for memory. But I suspected a great, honking tease all the same, as I'm a classical musician and devoted to all that derivative and unlistenable new composition.

Still, I do appreciate Randy Scruggs on dobro and Redbone on anything he chooses to play, so it's not like my world stops at Max Reger. (/OT)

@HiThere,
Thanks for the link but in my experience if you try to get a lower than market rate with a broker (versus direct lender) they will ALWAYS jack up the rate last minute, add junk and/or high fees, or add points or add a pre pay penalty last minute. Also wells fargo only takes good credit, they arent offering 7.6 to poor credit - that is the good credit rate.

I can only recommend going to a direct lender like Wells, Countrywide, BofA, WaMu etc since the brokers are 100% crooked lying liars who lie. It appears the big lenders are cutting off brokers now - there will be very very few of them left in a few years. (just look at the ml-implode forums its become a bitch and moan site for unemployed brokers! )

Also I recommend everyone to double app even though you think you can 'trust' your lender, you cant rely on a lender to be able to close at what they tell you especially nowadays. So have a backup lender in pocket. It will only cost you a second appraisal if that.

Even Wells and these direct lenders will play games or change things last minute. I know a guy who last minute had to come up with 5% instead of 3% down payment, for him it was huge - he had to drain all his savings. And this was Wells and this is nothing compared to the shenanigans the brokers do. Anyway that was 2 years ago - the stories now are last minute they tell you you cant to 5% down you have to do 20% down. thats huge. (i read that from an sfgate article IIRC)

HiThere,

Sure, it's pointless to base decisions on doom-and-gloom scenarios, but keep in mind that you don't want this to happen to you:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118955540976824460.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo

AHM, in bankruptcy proceedings already, is refusing to pay off mortgage borrowers' obligations like property taxes, insurance while it's fighting with creditors, hoping for someone to buy part or all of their mortgage portfolio.

Caught in between are those people with mortgages through AHM. And AHM is, er, was one of the largest mortgage companies. RE: smaller credit unions and such, all I have to say is caveat emptor.

I am sure Randy will come back, he is just taking a little walk to cool off.

Don't just take the bankrate's quote for granted. Talk to the mortgage brokers. It is very difficult to get a full doc loan at the advertised 6.375% or whatever low rate even if you fit the profile perfectly. If they lend to you at all, they will be downgrading you to "limited doc" rate which is another 2% higher.

I went through a refinance earlier this year, before subprime became a keyword in headline news. It was relatively a breeze, but still along the way, the broker was trying to find reasons why I couldn't qualify for the best "full doc" rate, although I am sure my profile is better than 99% of the clients walking through his door. Eventually I got the best rate but it was not without some bargaining and further documentation.

Bruce,

Sorry if my trashing of contemporary classical was taken as an insult. I'm not a fan (obviously), but I appreciate your dedication to an obscure craft. Can I ask, what instrument do you play?

@HiThere,
Ok that link was a CU, sorry.

I typed in CA,LA county, 1 million dollar home with 100k down payment and it gave me 7.22 APR for a 30 year fixed.

The 6.2 rate is misleading, even on a CU site.(still beats wells, but i bet they would end up being really close when fees and costs are compared, at least they were last few loans I did at wells)

HelloKitty,

I have closed a few loans in the past. From experience I can tell it's better to go through direct lender. Credit Unions are excellent choices. I have mortgage loans through them. I posted two links above. They are direct lenders. They never sell loans and I have loans through them. They are offering 6.37% 30 Year fixed Jumbo mortgage as of today if you have 720 or above FICO with 5% down. Check their website and call them.

HelloKitty,

OK you don't want to believe.....that's APR. That 6.37% is including of all fees. Call them if you have doubt or visit their branch. If you live in CA you might find a branch of Patelco but their APR is 6.62% with 0.5 point.

SKIBUM,

Have you heard of any Credit Union going bankrupt? I am talking about credit Unions and I already posted links. Call them if you have doubts.

SKIBUM,

As a borrower you should be safe if your lender goes bankrupt. The new lender must honor the original terms and conditions. The link you posted is extremely rare and the the dispute is about PITI accounts (where lender pays taxes and insurance).

Have you heard of any Credit Union going bankrupt? I am talking about credit Unions and I already posted links. Call them if you have doubts.

I have

Apparently under Federal law credit unions can't file for bankruptcy though.

@hithere
I did check the patelco site, the zero point CA loan with 10% down was 7.22 APR (no points). Thats a good rate. I will definitely check out the CU's if I ever get another loan. Any direct lender is worth checking out. thanks.

HiThere,

Here's aSF Fed Reserve study on credit union failures.

http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2005/el2005-20.html

In short, yes, it does happen, and in fact it happened a lot in the tight credit situation of the 1980's. Sound familiar?

SKIBUM,

How do you lose if your lender goes bankrupt. According to your article their was dispute as the the bankrupt lender didn't filed taxes and insurance for PITI accounts but original terms and conditions of the loan don't change

HelloKitty.

I am posting again.

http://patelco.org/rates/fixed_rates.aspx

Where does it say 7.22? To get 6.625 APR rate on JUMBO it should be 80% LTV but you can avoid that by doing 80+15+5. 80% 1st at 6.62%, 15% 2nd with 8.25% and 5% down.......putting down 10% will improve the APR...Call them, their customer service sucks but I stuck with them for the great rates.

There is apparently a real risk that borrowers from AHM will be foreclosed on because they fell behind on the "T" and "I" payments. That's how you lose in that situation. I'm not saying it will be a widespread problem, just that Hello Kitty's idea of sticking with a more reputable and larger bank is not a bad idea in today's climate.

On the other hand, all bets are off if CFC tanks. (Looks like they have another bailout in loans as of today).

their=there

HelloKitty,

The APR should be 6.72% with 0.5 Points with Patelco

HelloKitty,

Also check dcu.org. They offer better rates than Patelco.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1661682,00.html

Not even the Real Estate Agents

"The housing market in Detroit is a mess. Such a mess that nobody tries to deny it, not even the real estate agents. "The market is very, very bad," laments Jennifer Weight, hosting a deserted Sunday open house in the suburb of Bloomfield Hills. "It's terrible."

"In metropolitan Detroit, the 11% drop in home prices over the past year was just one more sign of a local economy in decline thanks to the troubles of the auto industry. In San Diego, the drop of 7.3% came out of the clear blue sky. The city still has jobs to offer. Beaches too."

OK, so 7.3% plus 3% or so for inflation, so a real decline of about 10% in San Diego?

@hithere
Yes I see the 6.72 for the jumbo with .5 but if you click on the 'choose rates' feature you can adjust the rate for your State/LTV.

I used CA/10% down payment and it gave 7.22

the 6.72 rate is 80% ltv(20% down)

Sorry for the confusion.

Allah,

You posted the link and then again you clarified. Yes under federal law Credit Unions can't file for bankruptcy. In crisis time like you cited above, they get merged with another one but the customers are protected.

"However, investors refuse to buy riskier loans. So, lenders have had nowhere to unload subprime, jumbo, and other nontraditional mortgages. There's no sign that's easing, as secondary markets for riskier assets have been frozen since the middle of the summer."

http://tinyurl.com/29hqlj

Hellokitty,

That's right. I have a loan with Patelco. They are mainly based in San Francisco/Sacramento area. I can tell you a trick. If you really looking for a loan, call them....don't do online appln. You get to talk to the loan officer they assign to you and you can play different options like 80+10+10 to make that 7.22 no point APR even better.

HelloKitty and SKIBUM,

What I was saying that 20% down payment requirement is overstated. If somebody has good FICO, they can get JUMBO with 5%, the sub-prime borrowers are having problem.

Skibum,

No apology anticipated - I love a roaring tease...

What instrument is problematic, as I've been at this for a while. Studied harpsichord and clavichord with I. Kipnis undergraduate, then organ 'period practice' with A. Heiller and Albert deKlerk post-grad. I'm enormously fond of piano, but can't say I cut much of a figure. Omnibus answer is 'keyboards'.

I remember in 1996 SoCal felt a lot like Detroit at least it seems that way now. They 'lost' auto worker jobs and SoCal lost the aerospace jobs.

It seems to me web 2.0 will crash when goog says 'we are not buying any more companies'. The next day 1000 start ups will shut down. They are that powerful it seems. I suppose a huge recession and large decrease in ad revenue could cause them to do this at some point....

The next boom people talk about all the time may be the unemployment boom. How to retrain for new career boom. How can I extend my welfare/gov benefit/unemployment checks boom. Customize your resume boom. How to network for a job seminars,etc.