patrick.net

Eman says

GNL says

zzyzzx says

GNL says

Now he's got 4 feet of water and mud in his house.

Where in Florida? Got a link to a the listing?

@zzyzzx - I'm pretty sure this is his address...27309 Buccaneer Dr Bonita Springs Florida.
How do I look at a live view of this listing and surrounding immediate area?

If I must guess, your friend bought it for the land value, not the house. It has waterway to the Bay. These lots are hard to come by. Here’s a comp in the area. This is probably what your friend has in mind once he took possession of the property.

This is one of the things I notice on Patnet. People are quick to jump to conclusions. In real estate, people get paid...

Yes, I understand that. He told me he was going to live in it. He also told me that even without insurance, if the place burned down, he'd still have to lot which is worth, he said, $350,000. Well, isn't the real estate market starting to crater? Yes, bet big, win/lose big. Time will tell. I haven't heard from him in about 4 days now. I stand by what I said though...he did hit some headwinds. If not for the hurricane he'd still be dealing with getting the foreclosure victim out of there + dealing with Ian + crater. Like I said, time will tell. Imo, parts of Florida are boom and bust and is probably not my cup of tea. Now that the hurricane is "Top of mind" (I'm seeing this phrase all over the net now. LOL), will this effect values for awhile?

He still overpaid for it.

GNL says

Eman says

GNL says

zzyzzx says

GNL says

Now he's got 4 feet of water and mud in his house.

Where in Florida? Got a link to a the listing?

@zzyzzx - I'm pretty sure this is his address...27309 Buccaneer Dr Bonita Springs Florida.
How do I look at a live view of this listing and surrounding immediate area?

If I must guess, your friend bought it for the land value, not the house. It has waterway to the Bay. These lots are hard to come by. Here’s a comp in the area. This is probably what your friend has in mind once he took possession of the property.

This i...

It was listed and sold for $540k. I don’t know if $540k is the foreclosed price. You said he bought it as a foreclosure, which means there’s a high probability he got it at a much lower price. I’m not familiar for FL foreclosure laws to know.

As you could see the sold comps, houses don’t have waterway sold for at least a couple hundred thousands less….

I’ve seen folks who bought this type of property. They can “claim” they live there for more than 6 months out of the year for tax purposes, especially if he’s from the Northeast, while he’s going through design and planning to get approved plans for a new construction. In my neck of the woods, this process takes a couple years. If he’s in a high income tax bracket, claim residency in FL can save him big bucks in a couple years.

Saw a video of Ft. Meyers where the 10 ft storm surge still washed away a house elevated for storms. These damages alway occur with canes and tropical storms to some extent close to shoreline.

I remember the show CSI Miami had a segment where they had several minutes showing hi def pictures of Andrew's damage, which extended like a tornado across the body of Florida. Now THAT was a destructive hurricane, mile after mile of high end homes damaged or destroyed.

Category 4 with sustained winds of 150 mph. Hurricane Ian made its first landfall Wednesday afternoon near Cayo Costa, Florida.
The height of the Gulf of Mexico raised about 15 feet.

That storm surge of 15 feet fucked over people who were in low elevation areas and did not evacuate within the ~21 hour evacuation order.

Lee County got fucked up the most, and issued that late of an order (within 24 hours of storm hitting) cause they were not expecting it to him them.

That is the problem with the Gulf Coast compared to the East Coast like Miami, Jacksonville, Myrtle Beach, etc.

The Gulf Coast is in the "blind spot" so we normally do not get as much warning as the East Coast.

Fortunately where we live, the road along the beach is about 10 feet above sea level and my family and I live 2 miles from the beach and are about 17 feet above sea level.

I read about flood insurance here.

Yes, standard residential property insurance in Florida like HO-3 (detached or townhouse) and HO-6 (condo) does not cover damage due to flooding such as a storm surge from the beach or rising water level from a nearby water body like a bay, lagoon, storm water retention pond, canal, etc.

For a replacement value of $250,000 our townhome about 2 miles from the beach has an approximate annual insurance cost of $1600 (HO-3) +$1500 (HOA master insurance) +$500 (flood insurance), or 1.4% of replacement value.

That is at least double the national average according to Bankrate.

For the time being, it is relatively not expensive to live here even though property insurance has gone up about 25% a year since 2017.
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Eman says

It was listed and sold for $540k. I don’t know if $540k is the foreclosed price. You said he bought it as a foreclosure, which means there’s a high probability he got it at a much lower price. I’m not familiar for FL foreclosure laws to know.

As you could see the sold comps, houses don’t have waterway sold for at least a couple hundred thousands less….

I’ve seen folks who bought this type of property. They can “claim” they live there for more than 6 months out of the year for tax purposes, especially if he’s from the Northeast, while he’s going through design and planning to get approved plans for a new construction. In my neck of the woods, this process takes a couple years. If he’s in a high income tax bracket, claim residency in FL can save him big bucks in a couple years.

I can't confirm this is his actual address. I haven't heard from him to confirm. No, he did not pay $540,000. He said he paid $400,000ish. He said he is almost directly across the canal from this listing...
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/27293-Arroyal-Rd-Bonita-Springs-FL-34135/54935163_zpid/

zzyzzx says

Good call - Exactly what I'm looking for in the end, except maybe a garage/workshop taking part of the ground area beneath the house.

"Home born in a wind tunnel melds efficiency with stylish design" Put this baby on stilts.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/home-and-garden/architecture/home-born-in-a-wind-tunnel-melds-efficiency-with-stylish-design/article28868201/

"
Testing a house in a wind tunnel seems about as logical as buying an aerodynamic toaster.

But here, squarely in the middle of that thin strip of land separating Lake Ontario and Lake Erie near Smithville, air moves quickly … and often. Today, it’s whipping the blades of distant turbines into a controlled frenzy, and reddening the cheeks of architects Alex Temporale and Mark Driedger as they step over semi-frozen puddles on the 26-acre lot to take in Delta House’s three façades."

Yes, but the Florida building code will evolve just like it did in 2000 as lessons learned from 1992's Hurricane Andrew.

That means more regulation which means higher costs with respect to home construction. And it may mean insurance companies requiring existing homes to be modified like they did with roofs requiring the new spiral nails.

Here is something that may be of interest as far as wind force distribution. Now as far as water damage (not wind related) such as surge from the ocean or Gulf, I agree homes need to be elevated so the slab or first floor is at least 10 feet above sea level.

I've seen more about installing breakwater structures (large rocks, etc.).
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My concern is that the storm activity is going to gentrify the Gulf Coast.

It is going to raise the cost of living there in homes that qualify for insurance and are built to the latest state building codes.

That means only the financially comfortable and rich would be able to live in detached homes and townhomes with garages that are within a 30 minute drive of the beach.

The rest (i.e., working class stiffs who work at local resorts, restaurants, nursing homes, etc.) will have to live in Soviet style concrete high rises.

ad says

Fortunately where we live, the road along the beach is about 10 feet above sea level and my family and I live 2 miles from the beach and are about 17 feet above sea level.

How close to the coast for it to flood? 2 miles inland and 17 feet up sounds inadequate to me.

GNL says

Eman says

It was listed and sold for $540k. I don’t know if $540k is the foreclosed price. You said he bought it as a foreclosure, which means there’s a high probability he got it at a much lower price. I’m not familiar for FL foreclosure laws to know.

As you could see the sold comps, houses don’t have waterway sold for at least a couple hundred thousands less….

I’ve seen folks who bought this type of property. They can “claim” they live there for more than 6 months out of the year for tax purposes, especially if he’s from the Northeast, while he’s going through design and planning to get approved plans for a new construction. In my neck of the woods, this process takes a couple years. If he’s in a high income tax bracket, claim residency in FL can save him big bucks in a couple years.

I can't confirm this is his actual address. I haven't heard from him to con...

My guess is he either bought 27270 or 27290 Arroyo Road. Both of these are in foreclosure per Zillow. Looking at the comps, he’ll likely be okay… Good luck to him.

I wonder if when this happens if the local parking garages fill up (if there are any)?

Booger says

How close to the coast for it to flood? 2 miles inland and 17 feet up sounds inadequate to me.

I don't know exactly where ad lives in the Panhandle, but the coast is mainly barrier islands, then Santa Rosa Sound, Pensacola Bay, etc. Besides a small gap between Destin and PCB. So the surge hits the barrier islands first and slows it down. Although Mexico Beach has no barrier island and got smashed a couple years back.

2mi inland you're more worried about wind and flooding from rain. Not storm surge. Water is powerful, but as it hits land it does slow down significantly. I think with Opal it was a 12' storm surge: https://www.weather.gov/mob/opal

My parent's place was 2nd floor from ground. Roof was damaged and they got some water in the condo that way. We're talking 100-200 yards from the Gulf.

Opal’s legacy will always be the devastating storm surge that occurred across the coastal areas of the western Florida Panhandle. Storm surge of 10-15 feet was recorded from Navarre Beach east to Destin with 6-8 feet observed in the inland bays from Pensacola to Choctawhatchee Bay. Opal destroyed most of the homes that were facing the Gulf of Mexico from Navarre Beach to east of Destin.

From the link. I'd prefer to be further inland if it was me, but not for storm surge reasons. I think people look back on hurricane Katrina and think that's how all hurricanes are. NOLA is BELOW sea level. A 5' surge would devastate it again. A 10-15' storm surge on a barrier island destroyed a lot. Inland it was all wind and water/rain damage. It was bad, but inland off water you're generally going to be fine in a hurricane. Unless you're in a trailer.

Vid is too big to embed, but from helicopter, it goes over some extensive areas of Naples a mile inland, and there was only one building that looked like it had some kind of damage, everything else perfectly intact for quite a large area depicted.
https://t.me/richardcitizenjournalist/7804

NOAA satellite pics:

https://storms.ngs.noaa.gov/storms/ian/index.html#6/26.718/-82.134

On a barrier island Panama City Beach. However, US 98 is about 2 miles from the beach on Panama City Beach and is the highest point on that barrier island with an elevation of 19 feet. Most of Panama City Beach is evacuated during a hurricane category 3 or more.

Our home is about 17 feet above sea level. We evacuated for Hurricane Michael. We are near US 98.

The road that runs parallel with the beach and is next to the beach is Thomas Drive and is 10 feet above sea level.

One of my repulsively wealthy uncles lives in some ritzy spot around Naples. On those satellite shots, can't see much of any damage around there. Looks like 'blow around' damage mostly at Ft. Myers, with some hoods looking mostly untouched, others worse off. Doesn't look like the bombed out stuff generally promoted by MSM, certainly not like Andrew.

Also can't see any damages at the re-entry point at Myrtle Beach, but hard to see everything from satellite photos, there is an awful lot of developed sheeyat down there.

Ceffer says

One of my repulsively wealthy uncles

I like him so much already that it would be almost impossible to stop liking him.

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ad says

Our home is about 17 feet above sea level. We evacuated for Hurricane Michael. We are near US 98.

I know 98 well from Pensacola to St. George Island. Haven't been down there in two years. Longest stretch of my adult life, hell even childhood that I haven't been. Might do spring break '23 down there though in Miramar/Destin area.

I don't think most of the country realizes how nice the panhandle is. AL, MS and GA residents do for sure. It's the weirdest thing to like about the place, but it has to be top 5 sand on the planet. On a calm day in the gulf the water is emerald blue like the Caribbean but different since the contrast of the sand to water color is so stark. The sand is white and soft.

In the last 3 years we've done Sanibel and Anna Maria Island on the west side on the Gulf. Wasn't a fan. Done the Keys three times, again not a huge fan. I had fun, but it just wasn't the Florida I know. Cruised out of Miami 3 times or so, not a fan. Not my style. I like latin people, but the Miami scene is younger and too bro party feeling. Those years are toast for me.

Beside Fort Lauderdale I have not explored the east coast of FL on the Atlantic side all that much. Wife went to Daytona Beach for a conference and said it was a shit hole basically. I trust her judgement on that. I've heard Jacksonville area is a shit hole as well. Know a high school friends parents that live in St. Augustine area. Seems nice when they post photos. Haven't been.

We should do a meetup outside of CA. Just a thought. I know it's $$$ for a flight for you CA guys, but the Panhandle would be fun. Plan it for 12-16 months in advance during a non-touristy time and also non-hurricane time. We've had the best times down there in May while the kids are still in school (pre our kids being born). It's the calm before the summer storm so to speak.

Yeah, it's an obvious fake, but still neat to look at.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/floods-ian-devastated-many-florida-185016848.html

Floods from Ian devastated many Florida communities but most homeowners do not have flood insurance.

Looks like people a couple of blocks in might have been OK:

Wow. That's some expensive rental sheeyat for Florida.

https://jalopnik.com/mclaren-p1-submerged-by-hurricane-ian-after-a-week-with-1849596914

McLaren P1 Submerged By Hurricane Ian After a Week With New Owner

zzyzzx says

The most practical family vehicle ever produced. Another thing the lying scheming scumbag media fucked us over on. They arbitrarily decided that it would be smeared as a Soccer Mom car, Like being a white soccer mom, is a bad scarlet letter to wear. What's fucked up is they still make vehicles with the same exact footprint in everyway. But only 4 family members can fit in them, but only the front passengers will have leg room. The rest of the vehicle space is filled with 14 inch wide consoles and wheel wells taking up back seat space, the driver floor space is less than 10 inches wide. Your right outer ankle gets sore from rubbing up against the firewall on long drives.
TO have a massive vehicle as big as that, and still have to call your friend with a pick up truck to help you pick up a Washing Machine or a 60 inch television.

Oh that's right! He can't! Pick up truck beds now are about 2 cubic feet, while the cabs have more space than the SUVs and CRVs.

zzyzzx says

That flood was Bullshit! It was man made, I drove over to Ft Myers two days after the storm passed. We traveled i75 and went up to Punta Gorda, then back Ft Myers.
From about 11am to about 5pm we were driving around touring. At around 5:30pm we started heading back and had to take a detour for the flooding.
The Everglades restoration project is nearing completion. What it does is allows the Florida Water Management to pump water anywhere in the state from Lake Okeechobee to Everglades City to Flamingo and all points in between. There has been many storms in Florida over the years, usually even the CS canal in South Florida always end up swollen as the Water management sends water into every canal to stop lake Okeechobee from overflowing. After Ian, the Canal behind my friends house never rose above the normal high tide mark. Meaning the water management was NOT pumping water into every canal like they normally do. I believe they sent it all up North to the St Pete erea to flood it out to create Climate Change hoopla. Because just one single beachfront on Gazillionare Row, was not enough to do it. The rest of South Florida didn't even see as much as a tree toppled. As many have said, the Barrier islands where it hit, was taken out by the storm surge not the winds. In my tour outside of the tidal damage, I never saw one single thing that looked like wind damage. Aside from the trees being whipped around and loosing some bark.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/property-insurance-company-cancels-florida-013031704.html

Property insurance company cancels Florida couple’s policy night before Hurricane Ian hit

https://www.wfla.com/8-on-your-side/florida-property-insurance-premiums-will-likely-spike-again-citizens-ceo-says/

Florida property insurance premiums will likely spike again, Citizens CEO says

Yep, property insurance to go up 20 to 30% in Florida for 2023 according to the CEO of Citizen Insurance.

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zzyzzx says

https://www.yahoo.com/news/property-insurance-company-cancels-florida-013031704.html

Property insurance company cancels Florida couple’s policy night before Hurricane Ian hit

That’s true — they can’t.

As Hurricane Ian hit, Florida Insurance Commissioner David Altmaier issued an order to temporarily protect residents. It reads, in part, “from September 28 – November 28, no insurer or other regulated entity may cancel, non-renew or issue a notice of cancellation or nonrenewal of a policy or contract except at the written request of the policyholder.”

They can, however, cancel you after the two months are up. It’s why Colantuono’s agent signed him up with another carrier.

“I just found a policy with Citizens,” Colantuono said.

Same article

ad says

ep, property insurance to go up 20 to 30% in Florida for 2023 according to the CEO of Citizen Insurance.

Florida Citizens Expects 5,000 claims and $63 Million in Losses from Nicole

Computer models have projected that the total insured losses from Nicole will range from $750 million to less than $2 billion.

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2022/11/17/695517.htm

Florida Senate passes property insurance overhaul

I absolutely believe it will drive their costs down,” said Republican state Sen. Jim Boyd, who sponsored the bill. “While it might not happen today, I absolutely believe we will have rate relief as we move forward in the future.”

RFLMAO

Average annual premiums have risen to more than $4,200 in Florida, which is triple the national average. About 12% of homeowners in the state don’t have property insurance, compared to the national average of 5%, according to the Insurance Information Institute, a research organization funded by the insurance industry.

The insurance industry has seen two straight years of net underwriting losses exceeding $1 billion each year in Florida. Six insurers have gone insolvent this year, while others are leaving the state.

The Florida Office of Insurance Regulation has said the state accounts for 76% of the nation’s homeowners’ insurance lawsuits but just 9% of all homeowners insurance claims.

The legislation would remove “one-way” attorney fees for property insurance, which require property insurers to pay the attorney fees of policyholders who successfully sue over claims, while shielding policyholders from paying insurers’ attorney fees when they lose.

The unstable insurance environment in Florida has pushed homeowners unable to get private coverage to the state’s public insurer of last resort, Citizens Property Insurance, which this summer topped 1 million policies for the first time in almost a decade.

The bill would force people with Citizens policies to pay for flood insurance and require moves to private insurers if they offer a policy up to 20% more expensive than Citizens

https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/florida-senate-passes-property-insurance-overhaul

What they don't pay in income tax, they pay in premiums.