patrick.net

rd6B says

Mexico at 0 in 1964 and over 60% now...unbelievable. Catholic church has lost its influence completely. Side effect will be precipitous drop in birth rate which is happening already.

https://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/out-wedlock-births-rise-worldwide

Leftists: "Waaah, correlation doesn't equal causation, boo hoo".

Notice that the Eastern Med, where slutshaming is still widespread and normal - how little of a problem out of wedlock births are.

As for East Asia, it's the unbelievable cost of living + fear of pubic hair (Or whatever their problem is).

They have been doing this for a while though, esp. feminazis have always maintained "bbbut men were cheaters and beat their wives! no safety net!" while secretly fantasizing about madmen and the era of strong men. Surely society was far from perfect back then but all data shows that people, men and women (incl. children) were overall happier back then.

Tenpoundbass says

They wanted to fight me at first

But then they realized you were a member of a cult, with conspiracy views cultivated in the internet age, becasue you know, "I read some stuff that I wanted to believe," therefore it's true.

So in fear of getting deeper in to it with Mr. right wing nut cakes, they decided it's best to agree that you're a stable genius just like your messiah.

Or (more likely) you just get paid a couple dollars per post to spam the internet with noise that supports the oligarchy. It's so easy. No guilt ?

It was about 1960 when divorce without a cause or mutual consent ("No Fault") became legal in most states. More Leftist "Rational innovation to make society better."



That's something we definitely need to fix. You can't walk away from a contract that's being honored unilaterally, so why marriage?

BTW, the same exact shit happened in the UK:



Some people are like "Look at Social Justice POWER! We are now more loving and more together! The Number of Divorces are declining now". That's because fewer people are getting married. If you adjust for that, it's little changed from the peak in the 80s (USA).

Tenpoundbass says

Remember Obama called us whiny bitter clingers, and told us the Jobs weren't coming back, there's no magic wand.

Manufacturing jobs. And yeah, so far he's right. Manufacturing jobs aren't even half way back to 2006 levels. Meanwhile labor participation rate is not up much since 2016. Sure the number of people eligible for unemployment is at a 50 year low. Woopee ! Let's celebrate!!

I actually think that eventually robots should be good enough that it will bring more manufacturing back. But that might require a little more subsidy of technical education. Why not pay people $15 per hour to learn skills, but students have to learn skills, pass tests etc in a timely manner to continue. Do it in a more direct way than student aid (and forget loans - just give grants, but tied to performance).

:
By far the single biggest difference from 1950s to now has got be women working. Many of the things you remember being better, and maybe you're partially right, are tied to that.

And that's not changing.






By the way, given the labor participation rate, and the trillion dollar deficits we are running, why do I suspect that the Trump economic boom is largely a fiction ?

marcus says

rump economic boom is largely a fiction

I'd say all economic booms lately are fictions because of how much % of that goes to bottom 50% vs top 0.01%, courtesy of illegal immigration and government bailouts of rich, incompetent fuckers who imagine that they are bankers, auto executives etc.

marcus says

Meanwhile labor participation rate is not up much since 2016

You mean, Babyboomers are still aging out of the workforce?

marcus says

Manufacturing jobs. And yeah, so far he's right. Manufacturing jobs aren't even half way back to 2006 levels. Meanwhile labor participation rate is not up much since 2016. Sure the number of people eligible for unemployment is at a 50 year low. Woopee ! Let's celebrate!!

Manufacturing Job growth rate best since 1997 - 23 years ago.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/04/manufacturing-posts-best-calendar-year-for-job-gains-since-1997.html

In raw numbers, best since 1988:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/manufacturing-employment-in-the-us-is-at-the-same-level-of-69-years-ago-2019-01-04

Job Growth is YUGE!

Private payrolls rose by 202,000 in December vs. the 150,000 estimate, according to ADP and Moody’s Analytics.
The report comes ahead of Friday’s government nonfarm payrolls release, which is expected to show an addition of 160,000 jobs.
Job growth came from construction and across a spectrum of service-related industries.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/08/adp-moodys-private-payrolls-december-2019.html

Inflation is minimal... wages are rising and they're rising for the poorest, the fastest since Illegal Wagecrushing is getting more and more under the Rule of Law.

I'd stick to talking about Trump's alleged Adderall addiction.

:
rd6B says

I'd say all economic booms lately are fictions because of how much % of that goes to bottom 50% vs top 0.01%, courtesy of illegal immigration and government bailouts of rich,

I thought it was becasue the percentage of working age people working is barely above flat. The new jobs we do get are gig work or low paying just as it was in 2012 - 2016.

It really is a continuation or the trend in place since 2012 or so. The stock market continues to be high becasue of low interest rates, and becasue of tax cuts as well as propaganda about the amazing things the republicans in power are doing.

NoCoupForYou says

In raw numbers, best since 1988:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/manufacturing-employment-in-the-us-is-at-the-same-level-of-69-years-ago-2019-01-04

Literate much ? Yes growth.

Considering manufacturing year over year was almost always dropping over that 30 year period, and they got ever so slightly better gains than 2011 - 2016, so it sounds great to say best growth in 30 years.

It wasn't.





NoCoupForYou says

Job Growth is YUGE!

Private payrolls rose by 202,000 in December vs. the 150,000 estimate, according to ADP and Moody’s Analytics.
The report comes ahead of Friday’s government nonfarm payrolls release, which is expected to show an addition of 160,000 jobs.
Job growth came from construction and across a spectrum of service-related industries.

Single month means less than nothing.

Sometimes seems like you're paid to spam too.

You don't respond to my point at all.

marcus says

By the way, given the labor participation rate, and the trillion dollar deficits we are running, why do I suspect that the Trump economic boom is largely a fiction ?

:

Tenpoundbass says

How is Thailand not on that wedlock list?

Thai people are actually quite conservative. They just have different values when it comes to prostitution. It’s bad and wrong...unless it’s being done to help the woman’s family! One of their most cherished values is to send money to help parents live a better lifestyle. Kinda like kids are a retirement plan. We have something like that, but not to this degree. Sending money to ones parents is sacrosanct and something to brag about.
Generally the Thai prostitutes are farm girls from the country whose families have fallen on hard times. So send the daughter to the big city to work at the bar, where tourists pay a “bar fine” to take them out of rotation for the evening.

But this doesn’t touch the generally conservative nature of Thai society, where modest dress, family ties, and marriage are truly important values.

NoCoupForYou says

You can't walk away from a contract that's being honored unilaterally, so why marriage?

Pursuit of happiness!
It allows alpha males to get a harem - sequentially, one wife at a time.

Heraclitusstudent says

NoCoupForYou says

You can't walk away from a contract that's being honored unilaterally, so why marriage?

Pursuit of happiness!
It allows alpha males to get a harem - sequentially, one wife at a time.

Not really. Any billionaire could end up as a pauper if he just marries a few times. That's why women usually divorce.

marcus says

The new jobs we do get are gig work or low paying just as it was in 2012 - 2016.

It really is a continuation or the trend in place since 2012 or so. The stock market continues to be high becasue of low interest rates, and becasue of tax cuts as well as propaganda about the amazing things the republicans in power are doing.

The trend is there from middle 80's at least where most of gains go to top 0.01%, but it is getting worse with every decade. In my non-economy educated mind there are 3 things that may be responsible: 1. illegal immigration depressing salaries of less-qualified workers; 2. outsourcing to China etc, which initially depressed wages of low-qualified workers (steel mills etc), but now is depressing wages also of college-educated people as R&D is outsourced to China and India as well in last 15-20 years; and 3. government bailouts of incompetent large businesses which engineer 1 and 2 while overpaying their stupid management, hosing their workers, and getting pork from government for weapons, ethanol and other assorted programs we all are paying for. I do not think tax cuts have much to do with this, other than perhaps rich people having more money to bribe politicians.

WRT to 1 and 2, in my town businesses can not get help even paying $15/hr...and this is in state with minimal wage of 7.25/hr but where economy is booming. Imagine how much businesses would need to pay their workers if our Great Orange Leader (or any leader before him for that matter) would actually enforce immigration laws and introduce E-Verify.

Of course they have to lie to people in order to brainwash them into thinking the 50's were evil. Can't possibly let the plebs know that things were better at one point in time, they might want to start undoing all the damage the neo-Bolsheviks have caused over the years.

It's one of their biggest attack fronts: convince people to embrace what's harmful to them.

Want to start fixing the issue?
Step 1: Look at the roles your enemies have positioned themselves in. Education, media, district attorneys, judges, and politicians.
Step 2: Remove them from these positions and prevent them from entering them.
Step 3: Roll back everything they did.

Will it be messy? Of course, but when you've let the toilet get backed up for this long, you're going to have to get your hands dirty.

rd6B says

illegal immigration depressing salaries of less-qualified workers

Do you mean the salaries of people less qualified than the immigrants ?

I just don't view the economics of the situation even close to that way. You really think that the wage boost you could get for landscape workers, line cooks, bus boys, maids, house keepers,. crop pickers, nannies, constructions workers etc., if those workers weren't here would somehow trickle up to the rest of us, more than it would raise our cost of living ?

I just don't even begin to begin to see it.

For another thing, it's not a simple labor commodity. Often, for example with restaurants, they literally could not even be successful without the legal and illegal immigrant workers, that are driven to work hard and perform very well. I have experience in this area, and can tell you that often such workers are not easily replaced for an extra 3 or 5 dollars per hour.

I know I sometimes accuse you guys of being racist. But maybe it's more that you just don't get it. The latin American labor we have in this country is more a blessing to this country than it is a curse. Arguments that it keeps wages for the rest of us down is if not stupidity, then outright racism.

But that doesn't mean I'm for open borders. Of course it has to be limited and our borders kept secure, which is the direction we were moving since way before Trump. He just made it a political issue, as if it was his idea and he was fighting against the tide.

Total bullshit.

rd6B says

I do not think tax cuts have much to do with this

Tax cuts for corporations are the most direct boost to corporate profits imaginable. "Earnings" are after tax. What are you thinking ?

rd6B says

WRT to 1 and 2, in my town businesses can not get help even paying $15/hr...and this is in state with minimal wage of 7.25/hr but where economy is booming. Imagine how much businesses would need to pay their workers if our Great Orange Leader (or any leader before him for that matter) would actually enforce immigration laws and introduce E-Verify.

And this would be a good thing becasue ?

What, you like inflation ? It's like you think that the employers would actually afford to pay more, without passing that cost on somehow ?

I guess it's not that easy to see the big picture.

Of course it has to be limited and our borders kept secure, which is the direction we were moving since way before Trump.

You cannot possibly believe this tripe. EVERY Dem candidate for President is for open borders with enticements like sanctuary cities and free medical for illegals, and are anti-ICE.

Shaman says

But this doesn’t touch the generally conservative nature of Thai society, where modest dress, family ties, and marriage are truly important values.

I wasn't implying they are all hoes, but in a culture where prostitution is prevalent, and they are world famous for it, and there are sex vacations.
How can they not have a high birth rate to single mothers?

Democrat tactics 101, attempt to rewrite history.

Why do you think they've been trying so hard to bring down the statues of the old slavers? Because 100% of them were DEMOCRATS.

:
Thats true, but stupid. Everyone knows those democrats would be republicans now.

Republicans are the ones that want to rewrite history - by claiming that repulican in 1860 meant the same thing it does today. Hell, republican in 1950 or 1960 has very little to do with republicans today. Just ask George Will or Charlie Sykes they'll be more than happy to explain it to you.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/29/former_republicans_george_will_and_charlies_sykes_what_happened_to_the_gop.html

So do you reckon yourself a Republican now?

marcus says

:
Thats true, but stupid. Everyone knows those democrats would be republicans now.

Republicans are the ones that want to rewrite history - by claiming that repulican in 1860 meeant the same thing it does today. Hell, republican in 1950 or 1960 has very little to do with republicans today. Just ask George Will or Charlie Sykes they'll be more than happy to explain it to you.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/05/29/former_republicans_george_will_and_charlies_sykes_what_happened_to_the_gop.html

Sure, the "big switch and all that". More Democrat re-writing of history. How did the GOP vote on the Civil Rights act? How did the Dems vote? That's what I thought.

Who tried to filibuster the Civil Rights Act?

That's right.

:
Tenpoundbass says

So do you reckon yourself a Republican now?

No, but I'm more conservative in many ways than you or Trump are.

I'm honest enough to know that if I lived in Illinois in 1870 I would have been a republican and if I live in Georgia I probably would have been a democrat.

Speaking of "situational ethics" you would find that video I just posted interesting. Maybe I'll make a separate thread for it.

Goran_K says

Who tried to filibuster the Civil Rights Act?

How many people does it take to do a filibuster ? Even in 1960 there were still a lot of racist democrats in the south.

But in answer to your question.

Goran_K says

How did the GOP vote on the Civil Rights act? How did the Dems vote? That's what I thought.

https://www.archives.gov/legislative/features/civil-rights-1964/senate-roll-call.html

Both Kennedy and Johnson were strong advocates of civil rights, but the following is fact.

While the landmark act received a majority of support from both parties, a greater percentage of Republicans voted in favor of the bill. Throughout the 1950s and ’60s, Republicans were generally more unified than Democrats in support of civil rights legislation, as many Southern Democrats voted in opposition.

https://www.countable.us/articles/17557-fact-check-republicans-voted-civil-rights-act-percentage-democrats-did

Nobody denies that there were racist democrats in the south in 1964. But some very dishonest republicans try to turn those facts in to something that's simply false.

Read about "the southern strategy" if you don't always want to lie to yourself and others about this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt130hp7d

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/07/26/what-we-get-wrong-about-southern-strategy/

mell says

Any billionaire could end up as a pauper if he just marries a few times.

Prenups baby, don't leave bachelorhood without one. Why you think Melania is still hanging around after Trump porked a porn star?

The great period was before USSR got its nuke. We could destroy the world with abandon and choose not to. Now every piss ant dictator can get one

Why you think Melania is still hanging around after Trump porked a porn star?

Not a prenup, Melania was rich on her own. Women who are attracted by such mega-achievers know they will be cheated on. True for Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton and other presidents, Royalty, Media Icons, and Captains of Industry. The lady knows she will get the name and prestige, while the young honey just gets a boink.

Melania has the Cuban gardeners. What more can a gal ask for?

It's not hard to see what people miss about the 50s.
1- The sense of community
2- The sense that the US was way ahead of everyone else
3- The more readily available resources, starting with space, cheap houses.

2 and 3 are gone. Won't come back, and this doesn't depend on the government. You can't wish out Europe/Japan/Korea/China. And the resources have to be shared with a much larger world population.

That leaves 1. Want it or not, it's a worldwide civilization. People eat Chinese and Indian food, drink Italian lattes, drive Japanese cars. People often move far from their home town for work. And big cities are full of isolated people.
Again, hard to change.
The 50s aren't coming back.
We have to settle for the nice screens.

Heraclitusstudent says

2- The sense that the US was way ahead of everyone else
3- The more readily available resources, starting with space, cheap houses.

2 and 3 are gone. Won't come back, and this doesn't depend on the government. You can't wish out Europe/Japan/Korea/China. And the resources have to be shared with a much larger world population.

Europe/Japan/Korea/China can only participate in the dollar-denominated world trade system if they offer something of greater value than what they take (in the eyes of American consumers). So they are all net exporters of "resources" / consumer goods and services. The stagnation of American living standards is entirely the result of the growth of government and its hangers-on. Just look at the typical middle-class household budget, the biggest items nowadays are housing, kids' education and medical insurance . . . none of them have anything to do with Europe/Japan/Korea/China, but all of them are monsters created by government regulations. The lower-middle class is further impoverished by competition in purchasing power from the lower class subsidized by government welfare, jacking up both rent (through section-8), food stamps, welfare checks, and subsidized medicine/insurance. The upper-middle class is impoverished by the cancerous growth of government bureaucrats and contractors bidding up the tonier sections of residential real estate as well as other "luxury" goods and services.

Again, the huge myth that Europe only came back in the 70s is being promulgated. This is a falsehood:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirtschaftswunder

1950 was the year West Germany exceed pre-WW2 economic numbers. By 1954 they were importing foreign workers due to a labor shortage. The mistake is that US preferential treatment continued regardless, and then neoliberals extended it to the entire world after 1989, which put American Industry and Workers at a disadvantage in one-sided trade. We still subsidize the Defense of Wealthy Europe and Japan, although Trump is fixing this.

Also, the thread is about how the Left and their control of pop culture lies about 1950s, not how we idolize the 1950s. For example, according to modern Woke Culture, every single man in the 1950s was a raging alcoholic, every wife popped pills to cope, etc.

That some in this thread have claimed "Madman" is a true and accurate depiction of the 1950s is no different than insisting that "A Christmas Story" is a completely accurate view of the same time period

marcus says

Nobody denies that there were racist democrats in the south in 1964. But some very dishonest republicans try to turn those facts in to something that's simply false.

Did those racist democrats STAY democrats or become Republicans?

Simple question.



We both know the answer, but you (and others) keep falsely parroting the "big switch" lie. It's pathetic.

Reality says

The stagnation of American living standards is entirely the result of the growth of government and its hangers-on. Just look at the typical middle-class household budget, the biggest items nowadays are housing, kids' education and medical insurance . . . none of them have anything to do with Europe/Japan/Korea/China, but all of them are monsters created by government regulations.

Btw, taxes were much higher in the 50s.

NoCoupForYou says

the thread is about how the Left and their control of pop culture lies about 1950s, not how we idolize the 1950s.

The only reason the left talks about the 50s is because the right thinks of it as 'great'. Almost every aspect of the republican social agenda is baselined on the 50s: religion, family, abortion, regulation of pollution, etc...

When I talk of resources, I mostly think about space. If you look at the Bay Area or LA for example, huge sprawls were built in the 50s and 60s to accommodate the boomers, leading to cheap housing, a sense of freedom, and higher buying power on other things. This is something that couldn't be replicated with today's population. The same is true in other countries. People could create a business in their garages. Today many live in the garages.

Here's a counter intuitive observation:

Birth Control was supposed to lead to liberated sex lives and free love without any complications of Pregnancy.
Additionally, it was to empower women economically.

What actually happened when we did away with sex shaming?

The illegitimate birthrate skyrocketed - the liberation happened but the birth control was often forgotten (sometimes accidentally on purpose)
The population on welfare also exploded.

Not just in the USA, but everywhere slutshaming disappeared. The places that avoided it were mostly Eastern Med countries where it's still acceptable to call promiscuous women sluts, like Turkey, Greece, and Israel.

Goran_K says

We both know the answer, but you (and others) keep falsely parroting the "big switch" lie. It's pathetic.

I actually think you might believe that. I know you want to believe it. Same thing for you people.

When you say something that even all intelligent republicans know is a fact, is a lie, it says more than you realize.

NoCoupForYou says

The illegitimate birthrate skyrocketed -

Yeah, but no one can undo the pill. You can't put back the djinn in the bottle.

Heraclitusstudent says

NoCoupForYou says

The illegitimate birthrate skyrocketed -

Yeah, but no one can undo the pill. You can't put back the djinn in the bottle.

The "pill" did not cause the illegitimate birthrate to skyrocket. The "pill" allowed promiscuity because the threat of pregnancy was severely lessened. The skyrocketing illegitimate birthrate was caused by welfare, paying women to stay at home merely for having a fatherless baby. True here and in England.

Goran_K says

Did those racist democrats STAY democrats or become Republicans?

No it's not simple. The transition of the South to dominate Republican took place over many years. The racist Dems were often economically populist. So supported the Dem economic agenda going back to FDR. Eventually those Dems either died off or after Johnson passed civil rights legislation followed Wallace and Nixon. The Viet Nam war and the 1960s counter culture also played apart and so on. The transition was not all racially driven. There are still vestiges of white working class Dems in the south, ancestral Dems. Probably tipped the gov. race in Eastern Kentucky the Dem.

But clearly today the whites in the south gravitate toward the Republicans not because of Lincoln but in spite of Lincoln. The African Americans to the Dems in spite of Lincoln and because they feel the Dems best represent their interests. It's a nearly complete realignment. In States like Virginia the realignment is going the other direction due to demographic changes. This is the coming challenge for the Republicans. While the Dems have their own issues in the rust belt.

HeadSet says

Heraclitusstudent says

NoCoupForYou says

The illegitimate birthrate skyrocketed -

Yeah, but no one can undo the pill. You can't put back the djinn in the bottle.

The "pill" did not cause the illegitimate birthrate to skyrocket. The "pill" allowed promiscuity because the threat of pregnancy was severely lessened. The skyrocketing illegitimate birthrate was caused by welfare, paying women to stay at home merely for having a fatherless baby. True here and in England.

Both. The pill promised the end of unwanted pregnancy which changed social mores. The cloward pliven strategy ended the economic hazard.

Everywhere illegit births went up, not just USA out UK

Either would have increased illegit births, but together it was a double whammy.