patrick.net

See what happens when you export your liberal compassion to your local libby neighborhood (Cali crap shacks 800k or so):

"that approved this program and local police officers. Please call and complain that this program should not be in a residential neighborhood. It is a safety issue. They say they screen these people but they continue to get in many fights, smoke pot and do other drugs and now a stabbing just this am. Who know how many sex offenders also are on the premises. What next has to happen before they will move this program elsewhere, maybe a commercial area with no families or children. I worry there will be a shooting here next. This is a sweet neighborhood and I worry about our children. At what expense do we help the homeless? Please if any of you can call any of those numbers to express your concerns. Thank you . I have reported this information to the police."

This spot was nearly right across the street from a grammar school.

How much work must be done to care for people who won’t care for themselves? Because that’s the real issue. If you give these homeless their own apartments, they’ll become shit holes. If you give them jobs they won’t keep them and just walk away. If you clean them up they’ll get dirty again. And they’ll be a blight upon anywhere they settle.

A home owner in LA recently allowed mabybe a dozen homeless to make camp in his back yard. They quickly turned it dirty, cluttered, dangerous, and loud. His neighbors are absolutely fed up with the constant noise and disruption, the drug deals, and the casual stealing.

If you truly care about the homeless, invite a few to live with you. I promise you, you’ll change your mind fast.

Quigley says

How much work must be done to care for people who won’t care for themselves? Because that’s the real issue. If you give these homeless their own apartments, they’ll become shit holes. If you give them jobs they won’t keep them and just walk away. If you clean them up they’ll get dirty again. And they’ll be a blight upon anywhere they settle.

A home owner in LA recently allowed mabybe a dozen homeless to make camp in his back yard. They quickly turned it dirty, cluttered, dangerous, and loud. His neighbors are absolutely fed up with the constant noise and disruption, the drug deals, and the casual stealing.

If you truly care about the homeless, invite a few to live with you. I promise you, you’ll change your mind fast.

That's why they should have low-cost facilities, maybe trailer or tent parks, and everybody needs to work on them and participate and follow the rules, otherwise it's jail time. But most importantly stop taking in more dependent people until you can take care of your own citizens! The irony that those leftoid coastal towns open the flood-gates and then make homelessness a crime without having any solution or facilities for the already native homeless citizens.

Quigley says

How much work must be done to care for people who won’t care for themselves? Because that’s the real issue. If you give these homeless their own apartments, they’ll become shit holes. If you give them jobs they won’t keep them and just walk away. If you clean them up they’ll get dirty again. And they’ll be a blight upon anywhere they settle.

Yuuup. They can't care for themselves.

Even if they're not a few cans short of a 6 pack, they still lack the plastic shit that holds them all together.

mell says

That's why they should have low-cost facilities, maybe trailer or tent parks, and everybody needs to work on them and participate and follow the rules, otherwise it's jail time

Triage is step one. Who is batshit crazy, Who is kinda crazy, and who just needs to little kick in the pants from time to time.

Batshit Crazy to the large Mental Facilities. That will immediately remove about 10% of the absolutely incorrigible and unredeemable homeless from the streets who probably cause at least half the problems.

Cutting down the grass in the Median, wiping off the benches, emptying the trash cans for a training wage for others. Bring back the CCC.

mell says

and everybody needs to work on them

Arbeit macht frei!

For all the people who yammer about legalizing drugs, offer the homeless a camp. They have to sign away their legal rights and freedoms, like soldiers do in the military, and subject themselves to different tribunals. If they agree to sterilization, provide them in the encampment with all the drugs, alcohol and cigarettes they want whenever they want provided by government dispensaries on site that are tightly monitored to otherwise prevent diversion. Shelter, food, but no extraordinary medical or emergency care if they overdose.

If they want broader freedom and re-entry, make them earn it through monitoring and meaningful participation in recovery and re-entry programs following at least a year of documented sobriety.

Drugs are in essence extremely cheap. Alcohol costs very little to make, alcohol and tobacco are only expensive because of taxation. Narcotics are not that expensive, and meth and speed are cheap to make. Give them what they want as much as they want, but off the streets, and neutralize the corruptions and aberrations of the drug economy. Most of them are dying, anyway, and it is about as humane to let them commit suicide the way they want as anything.

Ceffer says

For all the people who yammer about legalizing drugs, offer the homeless a camp. They have to sign away their legal rights and freedoms, like soldiers do in the military, and subject themselves to different tribunals. If they agree to sterilization, provide them in the encampment with all the drugs, alcohol and cigarettes they want whenever they want provided by government dispensaries on site that are tightly monitored to otherwise prevent diversion. Shelter, food, but no extraordinary medical or emergency care if they overdose.

If they want broader freedom and re-entry, make them earn it through monitoring and meaningful participation in recovery and re-entry programs following at least a year of documented sobriety.

Drugs are in essence extremely cheap. Alcohol costs very little to make, alcohol and tobacco are only expensive because of taxation. Narcotics are not that expensive, and meth and speed are cheap to make. Give them what they want as much as they want...

Full ACK! Most drugs can be produced so cheaply these days that the price becomes insignificant. Great write-up and this solution has been around forever, but neither Dems nor Repubs want to actually solve it.

So if you don't allow 5 homeless people into your home, allow them to shit everywhere shoot drugs up in front of you kids etc etc-then you view them as sub human filth????

Until I see liberal leftist showing "compassion" with their own wallets, instead of everyone else's, their sympathy rings hollow.

CovfefeButDeadly says

anon_e0567 says

mell says

and everybody needs to work on them

Arbeit macht frei!

Fucking imbecile. You house the homeless on your street.

@Patrick how is this not ‘personal’?

I marked it as such and yet it reappeared.

Special privileges for those of a certain political leaning?

errc says

I marked it as such and yet it reappeared.

That's My Fault. I thought the poster was referring to Spitzer.

By the Power of White Privilege, I shall send it back to Niflheim for the Glory of Vril-Ya.

TwoScoopsPlissken says

errc says

I marked it as such and yet it reappeared.

That's My Fault. I thought the poster was referring to Spitzer.

By the Power of White Privilege, I shall send it back to Niflheim for the Glory of Vril-Ya.

Funny, yea. Honest mistake, surely.

Except when I refer to Christians as Simpler than children, my post gets scrubbed because someone might take personal offense.

What a sad mess this has become.

At least it’s very equitable and fair-handed!

errc says

Except when I refer to Christians as Simpler than children, my post gets scrubbed because someone might take personal offense.

That's literally never happened on this board and I challenge you show where a post like that was scrubbed because of unfavorable comments towards Christians.

I don't agree with handouts, for anyone. It just creates dependency and inertia. I'd be willing to make an exception for certain hard luck cases, after much vetting, and with community accountability, nothing state or federal.

Christ's mandate to the church was not financial, it was about love and engagement. Yes, there are certainly churches that do this, but the opulence of many church buildings tells me they can do more.

There have always been homeless people, and that's not going to change, my post was to point out that record number of homeless people we are seeing, and as many have pointed out, in greater numbers, the bad ones get a chance to gang up and cause trouble. I believe many of these people had jobs in the past. But due to our shithole economy, they ended up on the streets. These people can be rehabilitated. But as long as we have a socialist government sucking the life out of everyone, that's not going to happen.

Some can be rehabilitated, some are permanently mentally ill for which there is no cure, and a few are jobless because illegals have taken over many menial jobs and are willing to work for peanuts, crushing wages. A good deal many are addicted.

Forcible institutionalization for the mentally ill and the addicted is the path forward.

Goran_K says

errc says

Except when I refer to Christians as Simpler than children, my post gets scrubbed because someone might take personal offense.

That's literally never happened on this board and I challenge you show where a post like that was scrubbed because of unfavorable comments towards Christians.

Patrick did it himself, so yea it’s literally happened before.

It was in a comment reply to FortWayne where I suggested that Christians Grow up already and stop acting like children. Patrick said it was a personal attack on Fort Wayne lmao.

#Snowflakes
#Liars

Goran_K says

errc says

Except when I refer to Christians as Simpler than children, my post gets scrubbed because someone might take personal offense.

That's literally never happened on this board and I challenge you show where a post like that was scrubbed because of unfavorable comments towards Christians.

How would one show where a post was scrubbed?

Is there evidence left behind after censorship?

My business is zoned in the gritty industrial area of town, the same part that homeless "Shit Rolls Downhill" wind up occupying. After decades of daily experience, I have no illusions or sympathy.

There are do-gooder charities that give out care packages of food and clothes. This ends up concentrating increasing numbers of homeless, and maintaining them JUST ABOVE their rock bottom, in perpetuity. They cherry pick the canned goods and abandon the ones they don't want or can't trade (most of the package.) They wipe their ass on the carefully laundered and folded clothes and abandon those too.

Sometimes I'll witness a bunch of them languishing around the far reaches of a shopping center parking lot. Then, the heroin dealer pulls in and these people suddenly COME ALIVE and walk with determination to meet him.

It sucks coming back from a weekend to find someone has spent a great deal of time methodically going through everything in my parking lot, stealing and damaging things left and right. Recently in addition to obvious foraging, one left me a big pile of poop, inches from a stray paper plate and trash can, then stuffed the shitty paper towels into the wheel well of a customer's car.

Caltrans burns an absurd amount of money evicting homeless and bringing in a dump truck/skip loader combination and crew of men to clean out cubic yards of trash per homeless resident, only for the same people to return immediately and resume collecting absolute worthless trash and concentrating it where they camp.

Sometimes they will come onto my property and aggressively panhandle, then become rude and argumentative when declined. Having a smelly bum scream, "WHY DON'T YOU GO SUCK ON YOUR BABY'S PENIS?" in front of paying customers is REALLY BAD for business.

I may be a classic Liberal, but I'm practical as hell and very experienced with homeless people. Therefore, I feel NO sympathy, having suffered many lifetimes worth of Compassion Fatigue.

Very practical automan empire. I lived in downtown LA for 3 years and had no illusions that my political views were shared by my neighbors. I read somewhere that 96 percent of DTLA voters voted for Obama in 2012. Yet within a few weeks of moving to DTLA everyone of my neighbors learned not to give change to homeless people. All it is is a marginal way to assuage guilt feelings. It’s neither helpful nor a moral good. The same thing goes for the govt money that rolls in. It’s almost as if some politicians are intent on creating a permanent underclass.

errc says

Patrick did it himself, so yea it’s literally happened before.

It was in a comment reply to FortWayne where I suggested that Christians Grow up already and stop acting like children. Patrick said it was a personal attack on Fort Wayne lmao.

Uh, so basically you called FortWayne a child? Direct personal attacks get scrubbed.

Learn the rules homie.

NuttBoxer says

CovfefeButDeadly says

If you have a better solution, there are people listening.

The church in America needs to stop spending money on giant screens and worship bands, and start taking care of the poor and needy in their neighborhoods. I blame government a lot, but the church is really the first line of failure here.

The church does not care. When Houston was flooding, the church slammed the door shut on those needing shelter.

CovfefeButDeadly says

I think you are underestimating how severely difficult it is to rehab the homeless. A local pastor who runs a couple of the programs at Weingart center in downtown LA http://weingart.org/ estimated that about 1 in 25 people who enter his program actually complete it to the point where they get a job and residence(and some still subsequently fail).

This is proof enough that most homeless want to be homeless. Help those who want to be helped, and make life extremely miserable for those who don't want to be helped. No other way to cut down on the homeless.

NuttBoxer says

Some good points. I grew up in the Protestant church, my Dad was a youth pastor for many years. I remember a lot of fake people, and church leadership that just wanted to create a group of followers(of them, not God). Those churches might pay lip service to Christ's mandate, but nothing more. If the church was doing it's job, these encampments wouldn't exist, at least not in such a dirty state.

Your question quoted above is incorrectly stated. "The question was, do you move the encampment".

Moving the encampment is same as spreading shit. You only end up stinking up more places. They should have designated areas that allow homeless camps.

Goran_K says

errc says

Patrick did it himself, so yea it’s literally happened before.

It was in a comment reply to FortWayne where I suggested that Christians Grow up already and stop acting like children. Patrick said it was a personal attack on Fort Wayne lmao.

Uh, so basically you called FortWayne a child? Direct personal attacks get scrubbed.

Learn the rules homie.

Nope, I suggested that Christians grow up and stop living by fairy tales intended for children.

Learn to read, pal

Feux Follets says

Goran_K says

That's literally never happened on this board and I challenge you show where a post like that was scrubbed because of unfavorable comments towards Christians

They do is you make unfavorable comments about the GOP, Trump and anything that suits the moderators fancy.

Ixnay on the onestyha

Yeah, just ask HEYYOU! and all the Anon posters about how anti-Trump, anti-GOP, etc. comments disappear immediately.

Automan Empire says

My business is zoned in the gritty industrial area of town, the same part that homeless "Shit Rolls Downhill" wind up occupying. After decades of daily experience, I have no illusions or sympathy.

There are do-gooder charities that give out care packages of food and clothes. This ends up concentrating increasing numbers of homeless, and maintaining them JUST ABOVE their rock bottom, in perpetuity. They cherry pick the canned goods and abandon the ones they don't want or can't trade (most of the package.) They wipe their ass on the carefully laundered and folded clothes and abandon those too.

Sometimes I'll witness a bunch of them languishing around the far reaches of a shopping center parking lot. Then, the heroin dealer pulls in and these people suddenly COME ALIVE and walk with determination to meet him.

It sucks coming back from a weekend to find someone has spent a great deal of time methodically going through everything in my parking lot, stealing and ...

SF is pretty similar. You need to threaten to beat them up before they let go with their aggressions unless they are coked out then you may have to follow up with your words and dump a huge bottle of disinfectant over you afterwards. It's really sad, it's the continuation of people not being held accountable for their actions, the snowflake culture. I'm all for helping those who want help, but there needs to be structured program with tough rules and jail time for those who refuse. Couple of SF hoods have already gone to shit, literally more-so than ever.

Automan Empire says

There are do-gooder charities that give out care packages of food and clothes. This ends up concentrating increasing numbers of homeless, and maintaining them JUST ABOVE their rock bottom, in perpetuity. They cherry pick the canned goods and abandon the ones they don't want or can't trade (most of the package.) They wipe their ass on the carefully laundered and folded clothes and abandon those too.

Sometimes I'll witness a bunch of them languishing around the far reaches of a shopping center parking lot. Then, the heroin dealer pulls in and these people suddenly COME ALIVE and walk with determination to meet him.

It sucks coming back from a weekend to find someone has spent a great deal of time methodically going through everything in my parking lot, stealing and damaging things left and right. Recently in addition to obvious foraging, one left me a big pile of poop, inches from a stray paper plate and trash can, then stuffed the shitty paper towels into the wheel...

Yup, this. Had the homeless occupy the fenced air conditioning unit behind my business office (out of line of sight, cardboard could create roof) because there was a working electric outlet and a hose, too. Watched them for over ten years around Fremont. They got stuff from the shelters and just left it in bushes and by the office. Sometimes, I'd open my personal office door and couldn't because there was a passed out body wedged there. One guy snored so loud, it rattled the windows and I had to go out and wake him up and shoosh him so the clients wouldn't leave. Sometimes, it would scare the crap out of me, because I would open my personal office door, and there was a homeless guy staring in or casing out the office. It was a weekly ritual every Monday to clean up syringes, beer cans, bottles random items of clothing, sleeping bags, garbage, condoms, etc before the clients arrived.

mell says

I'm all for helping those who want help, but there needs to be structured program with tough rules and jail time for those who refuse.

This.

Feux Follets says

They do if you make unfavorable comments about the GOP, Trump and anything that suits the moderators fancy. Not sure about Christians per se but I stand by everything else.

Are you kidding?

You mean like this thread?
https://patrick.net/post/1314031/2018-02-25-the-paul-manafort-dilemma

or this one?
https://patrick.net/post/1313705/2018-02-09-alt-right-trolls-weaponized-irony-to-spread-fascism

or the half dozen other threads where people are typing "TrumpCuck" or "republitard" that are currently up right now this very second?

The back of our office has a 3ft brick wall a few feet out from the building that creates a natural "homeless hangout". Had a guy who lived back there for about 6 months. He was a vet. Guy had some porno mags and liquor back there, but his area was basically clean. He didn't use the bathroom by our building, and didn't take drugs. For some reason people in my office didn't like him being there, and got a restraining order. So he left, and now we get random people back there weekly. Some just camp overnight, but others have used the area to piss, or talk VERY LOUDLY in small groups. The latter obviously didn't respect our office, and I was fine with shooing them away. But the vet, still don't understand what the issue was, other than homeless people make others uncomfortable.

I'm glad to hear that liquor isn't a drug. My "regular" homeless guy could have been my brother, with a beard and hippie hair. When I sold the office, last I saw, he must have reported it as his address to an emergency room where he was stashed. I saw him in the parking lot in a wheelchair, lolling and drooling, with his belongings tied in a plastic bag to the handle. The emergency room just dropped him off that way and gave him the wheelchair. He was clearly finally on his way out.

And so are these people.

NuttBoxer says

The back of our office has a 3ft brick wall a few feet out from the building that creates a natural "homeless hangout". Had a guy who lived back there for about 6 months. He was a vet. Guy had some porno mags and liquor back there, but his area was basically clean. He didn't use the bathroom by our building, and didn't take drugs. For some reason people in my office didn't like him being there, and got a restraining order. So he left, and now we get random people back there weekly. Some just camp overnight, but others have used the area to piss, or talk VERY LOUDLY in small groups. The latter obviously didn't respect our office, and I was fine with shooing them away. But the vet, still don't understand what the issue was, other than homeless people make others uncomfortable.

The issue is that they are supposedly mostly with shame in their eyes with their head dread-locked and full of mange when they ask you silently for a buck. At least that's how the Everlast song goes (which I like) and how the left portrays them when it suits them til they criminalize them when they come too close to their Hollywood mansions. And maybe that used to be how they were and I have seen many of those in other countries as well. And I feel bad for them and occasionally give them food or coffee. However the reality these days here is that 1 in 20 is like that, and the other 19 are either coked out, crazed out, or hyper aggressive, hissing, threatening, flinging shit at you and throwing back the food and coffee you gave them because it wasn't a $20 bill. Or all of that. No shame, just pure aggression and crazyness. Where have the nice homeless gone? If you threaten people you better get the fuck out of my way and straight to jail. The empathy stops right here.

Goran_K says

The University of North Carolina did an experiment 3 years ago where they attempted to gauge the cost of homelessness. Moore Place has 120 units, and was built at a cost of $12,000,000 (not counting staffing and maintenance cost per year). So to house 120 homeless people, it cost an instant $12,000,000 hit, and whatever the continuing cost will be to keep the property, maintain it (utilities, meals, etc), and fully staff it. These startup costs are much cheaper in North Carolina than they are in Orange County.

Good point. They need to figure out some way to entice homeless people into moving to less expensive housing markets. Unfortunately the weather and generosity of rich Southern Californians (to panhandlers) gives the homeless all the incentive to stay in places like Orange County. Beggars can make up to $300-400 per day. Tax free. What's not to love?

Goran_K says

Direct personal attacks get scrubbed.

Correct. If you're attacking the user and not his point, the comment should be deleted.

It's the difference between "Your point is incorrect" and "You're an asshole". The first one is great, especially if you have evidence. The second one is disallowed, since it harms the whole discussion.

This is how Frank Jordan cleaned up Art Agnos' homeless mess in The Beautiful City by the Bay back in the day, I tell ya.

mell says

Where have the nice homeless gone

Who knows? Mostly the crazy ones and the druggies are the ones I see these days. I won’t give them a bent pin. The economy improving and jobs are plenty, but they want to sit around and make their surroundings worse while they drink and use drugs until they pass out in a puddle of piss on the sidewalk. Then I have to answer uncomfortable questions from my kids as to why we need to walk into the street to avoid the diseased plague rat on our way to the donut shop.

There’s talk on my neighborhood watch page of placing signs to discourage giving to panhandlers in the neighborhood. We don’t want them there, and giving them money just helps them continue to be a problem.

www.youtube.com/embed/yggQ3HbO0Wg