patrick.net

Dan I really don't care to debate or argue when you go off on tangents talking about apes and bringing up your hatred toward America for something that happened over a 100 years ago. I really don't.

FortWayne says

your hatred toward America

Ah yes, the false ad hominem attack is the last ditch response when you cannot address the hypocrisy of your position. If anyone here has hatred of Americans and today's American culture, it's you.

So, are willing to concede that the moral standing of America between 1775 and 1865 was far below that of today because of slavery?

Are you wiling to concede that the the moral standing of America between 1865 and 1964 was far below that of today because of segregation?

Exactly when did the period of high moral standards in America begin in your petty little worldview? When was America the moral bastion you like to make it out?

I suspect that you consider the slavery era of America to be morally better than today, but you don't have the balls to admit it.

The fact is that the Millennials are the most moral generation America has yet scene precisely because they reject the ideas you advocate.

FortWayne says

bringing up your hatred toward America for something that happened over a 100 years ago

What? Has Dan been waving the Confederate flag?

Here's Trump creating an issue out of a problem which doesn't exist in order to "unite" people:

Billionaire businessman Donald Trump on Wednesday doubled down on his controversial stance that vaccinations are linked to what he described as an autism “epidemic.”

“I’ve seen it,” he said at the second main-stage GOP debate on CNN Wednesday night.

“You take this little beautiful baby, and you pump — it looks just like it’s meant for a horse," he said of vaccines.

"We’ve had so many instances ... a child went to have the vaccine, got very, very sick, and now is autistic."
The GOP front-runner said he still supported certain vaccines, but in smaller doses over a longer period of time. Under current procedures, he said it's dangerous for the public.

It has been debunked & debunked & debunked. Even Ben Carson knows there's nothing to this. But a man who has lost money running a casino knows better than the professionals.

Boo! Booga booga! Run and hide! Fear! Hate!

HydroCabron says

What? Has Dan been waving the Confederate flag?

No, he just posted that he hates America and everyone born in it past and present.

FortWayne says

Wait and see another two years, that's all I need to see. If homosexuality stays the same way, where it's not promoted onto general population through liberal media, than I'll admit being wrong

2 years? Seriously, how do you function with judgment like this?

Speaking of wrong, you ready to call no joy and choke this one down, or do you want to wait til the end of the year?
/housing/2015+Real+Estate+Prediction

Beyond that, how can your judgment about what the near term future be like so horrendously flawed? Is it the media you consume? Is it your fear and anxiety about what the tee vee is telling you that so badly clouds your judgment? Oh and its not just housing and gays, its

Ebola
/misc/Ebola+patient+died

and housing (at the bottom of the market and best moment in the last decade to buy)
/housing/How+to+bet+against+a+housing+market%3F

and facebook (people shorting FB at the absolute bottom will make out like a highway robbery)
/?p=1215483&page=1#comments

Its everything! At one point, you had a tagline "Freedom 1776 - 2012". Whatever the 2012 "OMG WE ARE FINISHED" calamity du jour was, it resolved itself and your tagline disappeared. Do you even how remember what the issue was had you so wrapped up in hysterics back then? My guess is you don't. Is there ever a day that goes by that you don't think everything under the sun goes to shit? When you wake up day after day after day, and see basically business as usual, do you ever say to yourself? Gee, perhaps my judgment about how terrible things are, and the speed and magnitude of when things go to shit isn't that good?

Dan8267 says

So, are willing to concede that the moral standing of America between 1775 and 1865 was far below that of today because of slavery?

Are you wiling to concede that the the moral standing of America between 1865 and 1964 was far below that of today because of segregation?

Yes to both. That would be a reason to love America today, because we are now a different country. But you hate her, because of the past. A past that was no different than any other region on the planet.

Dan8267 says

Exactly when did the period of high moral standards in America begin in your petty little worldview? When was America the moral bastion you like to make it out?

Our moral standards are constantly evolving. All answers are therefore opinions only.

Ironman says

Are you going to invite all of us to your wedding?

You wouldn't have the balls to show up, as you've demonstrated.

Dan8267 says

So, are willing to concede that the moral standing of America between 1775 and 1865 was far below that of today because of slavery?

No, because back than slavery was considered normal. Slavery today would be immoral. You can't judge an 1865 man by the views of a 2012 man, two different mindsets. Just like you don't judge a man at adult age for shitting his diaper when he was 1 year old. This is supposed to be common sense Dan.

FortWayne says

HydroCabron says

What? Has Dan been waving the Confederate flag?

No, he just posted that he hates America and everyone born in it past and present.

Reference please. Oh wait, you can't because you're a lying sack of shit.

anonymous says

"Eric brings many years of proven experience and exceptional leadership to this new role," the President said in a statement. "I am grateful for his commitment to our men and women in uniform, and I am confident he will help lead America's Soldiers with distinction."

This just proves that Obama doesn't care about our nation. We are supposed to pick talent, not just choose someone because they are straight or gay. When politicians mix army with politics, things turn out bad. I only hope that "Eric/Erica" actually is good at what they do, and weren't just picked because Obama is trying to appease gay minority groups right before elections.

Strategist says

But you hate her, because of the past.

1. It's impossible to love or hate a country. Using those words to refer to a country simply cheapens the meanings of those words.

2. Drone strikes, militant police forces, and the war on drugs are present-day problems.

3. Acknowledging the crimes of people in government is not hating a country. A country is not its government, nor the criminals who hold a tiny but powerful fraction of government positions. The fact that you cannot grasp this simple concept is a failure of your intellect, not my character.

4. Countries don't have genders, personalities, or thoughts. They are imaginary borders drawn on a map.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

So, are willing to concede that the moral standing of America between 1775 and 1865 was far below that of today because of slavery?

No, because back than slavery was considered normal.

So if raping babies were the norm, you'd consider that moral. No wonder you are so fucked up.

Tell me, does your fictitious god also agree with that?

Oh, and if gay man ass sex were to become more common than penis-vagina sex, then gay man ass sex would be moral and man-woman sex would be an abomination, right? Do you actually think before you post something? The contradictions in your posts are beyond apparent.

FortWayne says

America and politics of division.

FortWayne says

This just proves that Obama doesn't care about our nation.

Jesus Fucking Christ, the hypocrisy.

It's all right Dan. One day, hopefully, you'll grow up and understand us adults.

FortWayne says

It's all right Dan. One day, hopefully, you'll grow up and understand us adults.

Speaking of which, a big part of being an adult is accountability
/housing/2015+Real+Estate+Prediction
The end of the year is still not here. Do you want to double down on this call or do you want to start munching down on this shit sandwich now?

Dan8267 says

1. It's impossible to love or hate a country. Using those words to refer to a country simply cheapens the meanings of those words.

WTF. I love America. I also love democracy, freedom, and human rights. I love all countries that practice these values.
I hate Saudi Arabia. Because they practice nothing I love.
How can you say it's impossible to love or hate a country?

Dan8267 says

2. Drone strikes, militant police forces, and the war on drugs are present-day problems.

Solutions Dan, they are solutions, not problems.
Terrorists and criminals are the problem.
Did you swallow your brain? It's in your rectum right now.

FortWayne says

It's all right Dan. One day, hopefully, you'll grow up and understand us adults.

Wow, you really have no response to all of your hypocrisy that I pointed out above.

Strategist says

WTF. I love America. I also love democracy, freedom, and human rights. I love all countries that practice these values.

I hate Saudi Arabia. Because they practice nothing I love.

How can you say it's impossible to love or hate a country?

You are misusing the terms.

1. America is a republic, not a democracy.
2. You don't love America or even like it much. You simply are an arrogant tribalist and when you are talking up America, you are really just saying you are great and everyone else is inferior.
3. You clearly do not love Americans. You didn't give a shit about Trayvon Martin. He was an American. You don't give a damn about any Muslim Americans. You hate liberal Americans. So it's meaningless to say that you even support the country that is America.
4. Countries don't preach values, people do.
5. Preaching a value isn't the same as upholding it.
6. Throughout American history, including today, the values of democracy, freedom, and human rights take a back seat to money and power.
7. A person who actually cares about the well-being of his countrymen would seek to change #6 rather than white wash it.
8. An wise person realizes that it's the way societies operate that matter, not the fact that you were born in a country. If you were born in Afghanistan, you'd be saying "death to America" because Afghanistan would be your tribe.

FortWayne says

Dan8267 says

So, are willing to concede that the moral standing of America between 1775 and 1865 was far below that of today because of slavery?

No, because back than slavery was considered normal. Slavery today would be immoral. You can't judge an 1865 man by the views of a 2012 man, two different mindsets. Just like you don't judge a man at adult age for shitting his diaper when he was 1 year old. This is supposed to be common sense Dan.

The moral code of the Bible never changes.
The Bible considers slavery as moral, while you consider slavery as immoral, ironically a secular value.

Strategist says

Dan8267 says

2. Drone strikes, militant police forces, and the war on drugs are present-day problems.

Solutions Dan, they are solutions, not problems.

This is not a solution.

NPR Report

NPR's Kelly McEvers has been to parts of Yemen, where these drones have struck. She found that while they do hit their targets, they often kill more civilians than officials claim, and relatives of the victims sometimes join al-Qaida in revenge.

You are the moral equivalent of pond scum.

Strategist says

The moral code of the Bible never changes.

The Bible considers slavery as moral, while you consider slavery as immoral, ironically a secular value.

I would have to disagree with that Strategist. Bible documented slavery and worked with society that considered slavery normal. Today bible works for the society there is now. Bible doesn't change society, it helps improve the one we live in. Think about it, bible teaches gods love. If you love your neighbor, would you mistreat him or put him into slavery?

There is a lot more to the bible than randomly taken out verses. Without context of time and understanding that men of it's time had when it was published, we can't judge it by our values today.

CDon says

Speaking of which, a big part of being an adult is accountability

/housing/2015+Real+Estate+Prediction

That was my personal opinion at the time and I was wrong. I really thought shit was going to hit the fan, the artificial nightmare this government was doing to keep pretend market up is astonishing even today. I didn't think they could keep it up that long.

FortWayne says

That was my personal opinion at the time and I was wrong.

Predictions aren't opinions. Opinions cannot be right or wrong, by definition. You stated an incorrect fact.

Look at these two examples.
Ex 1: Ice cream is yummy.
Ex 2: Obama is a Muslim.

The first example is an opinion and cannot be right or wrong. The second example is a factual statement and is absolutely wrong.

Here's a book to help you distinguish these things. Fact & Opinion

Learning to distinguish facts from opinions is an essential skill, necessary for success in the classroom and on standardized testing. It's also an important life skill, one that students will need as they start to evaluate news reports, evaluate advertising, and form their own opinions for decision-making.

Dan8267 says

This is not a solution.

I see 7 children lying dead. If we do not go after terrorists there will be 7,000 lying dead.
Look at the chaos caused by ISIS in Syria and Iraq. We could have taken out ISIS in the early going, but it was your type of thinking that prevented us from doing just that.
I hold you responsible for millions of refugees, slaves, rapes and genocide, while saving 7 kids.
You can hold me responsible for 7 deaths for my type of thinking, but saving millions.

FortWayne says

Strategist says

The moral code of the Bible never changes.


The Bible considers slavery as moral, while you consider slavery as immoral, ironically a secular value.

I would have to disagree with that Strategist. Bible documented slavery and worked with society that considered slavery normal. Today bible works for the society there is now. Bible doesn't change society, it helps improve the one we live in. Think about it, bible teaches gods love. If you love your neighbor, would you mistreat him or put him into slavery?

The Bible has been responsible for preventing lots of criminals from a life of crime, I give you that.
If I love my neighbor I would not enslave him, but if I did not love my neighbor I would still not enslave him, because I have common sense and a conscious. I really do not need a Bible to give me moral advise. The Bible could have just banned slavery, instead it preaches how to treat slaves, and how much slaves are worth. The Bible was used to justify slavery, just as it is used to discriminate gays. We can't have that.
Laws must be secular. All humans must be treated equally. No exceptions.

Strategist says

I see 7 children lying dead. If we do not go after terrorists there will be 7,000 lying dead.

Over a million men, women, and children in Iraq alone died because of Bush's wars. Even counting like you're doing, we didn't come out ahead.

Of course, Osama bin Laden also thought exactly like you. What are the lives of 3,000 innocent American lives compared to several million innocent Arab lives? Osama thought that justified 9/11, and by your logic, it does.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

I see 7 children lying dead. If we do not go after terrorists there will be 7,000 lying dead.

Over a million men, women, and children in Iraq alone died because of Bush's wars. Even counting like you're doing, we didn't come out ahead.

Most of the people in Iraq died at the hands of their fellow Muslims. Blowing up fellow Muslims was their choice not ours.
Blame Allah, not us.

Dan8267 says

Of course, Osama bin Laden also thought exactly like you. What are the lives of 3,000 innocent American lives compared to several million innocent Arab lives? Osama thought that justified 9/11, and by your logic, it does.

Osama Bin Laden would have killed every single infidel if he could.
Blame Allah, not me.

Dan8267 says

Of course, Osama bin Laden also thought exactly like you. What are the lives of 3,000 innocent American lives compared to several million innocent Arab lives? Osama thought that justified 9/11, and by your logic, it does.

Avoiding this?

Dan8267 says

Dan8267 says

Of course, Osama bin Laden also thought exactly like you. What are the lives of 3,000 innocent American lives compared to several million innocent Arab lives? Osama thought that justified 9/11, and by your logic, it does.

Avoiding this?

Osama thought targeting innocent people was justified. I think targeting terrorists is justified.
Night and day difference my dear friend.

Strategist says

The Bible has been responsible for preventing lots of criminals from a life of crime, I give you that.

Great!

Strategist says

If I love my neighbor I would not enslave him, but if I did not love my neighbor I would still not enslave him, because I have common sense and a conscious. I really do not need a Bible to give me moral advise. The Bible could have just banned slavery, instead it preaches how to treat slaves, and how much slaves are worth. The Bible was used to justify slavery, just as it is used to discriminate gays. We can't have that.

Laws must be secular. All humans must be treated equally. No exceptions.

Why would bible ban slavery? That society would not survive without slavery. It's up to the mankind to ban slavery when it becomes appropriate, and bible teaches that. In the future when technology evolves to a point where no one has to work and no one will work, say arbitrarily 300 years from now, wouldn't a man 300 years in the future look at our generation and consider "jobs" slavery? None of us think it's slavery, but I'm sure a man 300 years from now will feel more free and look at this as a yoke and a chain.

It's why I don't find history of slavery as bad. I would find it bad today if it were happening today, but I will not criticize a generation which we were not a part of.

Dan8267 says

Predictions aren't opinions.

Dan maybe you should just consider becoming sane before you post in the future. Trust me it'll do wonders for you. *This is an opinion, just an opinion.

Dan8267 says

er a million men, women, and children in Iraq alone died because of Bush's wars. Even counting like you're doing, we didn't come out ahead.

https://www.iraqbodycount.org/

If you are going to make up numbers anyway, at least say billions instead. Why lowball pretend stuff.

The way to count the dead is NOT to count dead bodies, but to count the living and subtract from the previous known value. The most conservative estimates of people killed are 650,000 and that does not include indirect deaths resulting from sickness, exposure, etc. caused by turning millions into refugees.

FortWayne says

Why would bible ban slavery? That society would not survive without slavery. It's up to the mankind to ban slavery when it becomes appropriate, and bible teaches that.

What kind of a question is that? Slavery is moral? What about all the "moral crap" the Bible claims to preach?
This is why I don't bother with religion. It does not meet my moral standards.
The real truth is...the Bible was written by a bunch of idiots with no knowledge of science, and disgusting primitive morals.

Dan8267 says

The way to count the dead is NOT to count dead bodies, but to count the living and subtract from the previous known value.

LOL. You are so funny. Go to any morgue, and ask them how they count bodies.
Lots of people go into hiding, and migrate to other regions during wars. And you count them as dead, and blame the US for killing someone who is alive.

Strategist says

This is why I don't bother with religion. It does not meet my moral standards.

maybe we just need a new religion. buddhism is pretty good for helping you get through life, imho, though a bit negative.

some buddhist leader said "most westerners think you die and then you're just dead forever. buddhists think that's too optimistic."

Strategist says

The real truth is...the Bible was written by a bunch of idiots with no knowledge of science, and disgusting primitive morals.

they had as much knowledge of science as anyone at the time, and lots of the jewish laws were fairly scientific about hygiene, like not eating pork or shellfish probably because of the diseases they carried, never eating blood, washing hands before eating, circumcision (reduces penis cancer) etc. you can clearly see how they might have come about through observation over generations.

as for the morals, you can call them primitive but they did have functions that benefited their societies in many ways. ancient people were not entirely clueless. maybe you have some example of a disgusting primitive moral?

Strategist says

This is why I don't bother with religion. It does not meet my moral standards.

maybe we just need a new religion. buddhism is pretty good for helping you get through life, imho, though a bit negative.

some buddhist leader said "most westerners think you die and then you're just dead forever. buddhists think that's too optimistic."

I have a lot of respect for Buddhism. We attended several "core teaching" classes at the Hacienda Heights His Lei Temple. I found it an honor to attend and see the Dalai Lama at the Honda Center, celebrating his 80th birthday.
A quote from the Dalai Lama goes something like "If all children from age did some meditation, there would be no more wars"

as for the morals, you can call them primitive but they did have functions that benefited their societies in many ways. ancient people were not entirely clueless. maybe you have some example of a disgusting primitive moral?

Morals are subjective. Smacking a child is fast becoming immoral. Child labor is immoral today. A hundred years from now eating meat could be immoral and primitive.
But today, we clearly live in societies where slavery, stoning of women, persecuting gays is clearly considered immoral in most societies.
The Hindus have the caste system.
Christians have their thing about gays.
Islam....gosh....the list never ends.
Society is constantly evolving, and subjective values are constantly changing. "One man's meat, is another man's poison" is probably the best way of describing disgusting primitive morals.

Strategist says

Society is constantly evolving, and subjective values are constantly changing. "One man's meat, is another man's poison" is probably the best way of describing disgusting primitive morals.

so you say that those morals are disgusting to you, but you also say that morals are subjective.

Strategist says

slavery, stoning of women, persecuting gays

slavery has clear benefits for the owners, and self-interest warps perception. people can rationalize all kinds of things that are in their own self-interest.

it was not "women" who were stoned, but prostitutes specifically. cruel as that is, you could see it as a public health measure. but then, of course, why not stone the men who visited them? perhaps because the men were the ones writing the laws...

homosexuality also has public health issues. AIDS is no doubt only the latest manifestation of that.

not to say those biblical laws are "good", only that they were not random. they had purposes.

Strategist says

Islam....gosh....the list never ends.

the interesting thing about islam is that it's very fashionable among liberals to rush to the defense of muslims (like the muslim boy in texas who made some clock) to show how tolerant and "diverse" they are and yet islamic law would have many of those very people who defend it beheaded or severely beaten the moment muslims got power. especially gays and feminists would be in tons of trouble, instantly.

sure, that boy did nothing wrong, but the paranoia about his project did not come out of nowhere. it came out of pretty much continuous islamic terrorist attacks every day, around the world, on unarmed civilians:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

Strategist says

What kind of a question is that? Slavery is moral? What about all the "moral crap" the Bible claims to preach?

Bible teaches us to be the best we can. At the time slavery was moral was when society needed it to survive, there was nothing wrong with slavery when bible was written. Context brother, you got to get context. Bible isn't teaching to have slavery today, because that wouldn't be us at our best today.