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Is It Murder to Kill Civilians in the Invasion of a Country Based Upon Lies?
invite response
2014 Jun 24, 5:24am 30,327 views 81 comments
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Strategist
2014 Jun 25, 3:24am
innocent people are bound to die. The idea is to prevent even more deaths.
If it was your family that was the "innocent sacrifice" would you be so philosophical?
In that scenario I would get biased and speak out against drone strikes. As that has not happened I can still be rational.
My question to you is...if it was your family that was the victim of a terrorist strike that could have been prevented with a drone strike, would you still be against them?
Strategist
2014 Jun 25, 3:26am
Remember, most innocent people dying in these countries is due to Muslim terrorists blowing themselves up at weddings and funerals.
There are no American suicide bombers.
zzyzzx
2014 Jun 25, 3:56am
Johns Hopkins epidemiologists concluded that 100,000 mostly women, children and elderly were killed during the opening invasion itself.
That's roughly equivalent to one raid on Toyko in WW2!
Shaman
2014 Jun 25, 3:57am
Kill one person and you're a murderer. Kill a hundred people and you're a psychopath. Kill ten thousand people and you're a warlord. Kill a hundred thousand people and you're a king. Kill ten million people and you're a legend.
Dan8267
2014 Jun 25, 4:11am
When you go after terrorists, innocent people are bound to die.
Prove it. I don't buy into the argument that fighting terrorism requires the deaths of innocents and certainly not to the degree to which the U.S. military has done so.
If anything, I would argue that the deaths of innocents causes terrorism. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighters. According to the USA Patriot Act, George Washington and the other founding fathers were terrorists.
If our goal is to prevent terrorism, then we have to think how we would react if someone blew up an elementary school killing hundreds of our children. Then we must realize that other people would react the exact same way when we do this to them. Terrorist is a label used to dehumanize other people. It's no different than the Nazis referring to Jews as rats and criminals.
During the Holocaust, Nazis referred to Jews as rats. Hutus involved in the Rwanda genocide called Tutsis cockroaches. Slave owners throughout history considered slaves subhuman animals. In Less Than Human, David Livingstone Smith argues that it's important to define and describe dehumanization, because it's what opens the door for cruelty and genocide.
"We all know, despite what we see in the movies," Smith tells NPR's Neal Conan, "that it's very difficult, psychologically, to kill another human being up close and in cold blood, or to inflict atrocities on them." So, when it does happen, it can be helpful to understand what it is that allows human beings "to overcome the very deep and natural inhibitions they have against treating other people like game animals or vermin or dangerous predators."
Thinking sets the agenda for action, and thinking of humans as less than human paves the way for atrocity. The Nazis were explicit about the status of their victims. They were Untermenschen — subhumans — and as such were excluded from the system of moral rights and obligations that bind humankind together. It's wrong to kill a person, but permissible to exterminate a rat. To the Nazis, all the Jews, Gypsies and others were rats: dangerous, disease-carrying rats.
That's exactly how many in our country portray human beings they label as terrorists. And that's all the word terrorist is, a god-damn label used to circumvent reason and specific evidence.
Dan8267
2014 Jun 25, 4:12am
Well said. One of the largest problems with our society is that most Americans value only American lives. The rest of the world is irrelevant to them.
Dan8267
2014 Jun 25, 4:13am
In that scenario I would get biased and speak out against drone strikes. As that has not happened I can still be rational.
A valid point. However, you are neglecting your bias due to the fact that you live in the country using the drone strikes and not the country enduring the drone strikes.
Dan8267
2014 Jun 25, 4:22am
Remember, most innocent people dying in these countries is due to Muslim terrorists blowing themselves up at weddings and funerals.
There are no American suicide bombers.
Yes, religion is bad and it causes people to do evil things. However, the evil done by Al Qaeda does not justify the evil done by the U.S. You might as well say that Al Qaeda killed some Americans, so it's fine for anyone to gun down Americans. Same logic.
As for suicide bombing, that just means the enemy is braver. Suicide bombings are evil because they are bombings and kill others, not because of the suicide.
Americans prefer to kill safely from a distance by pushing a button. That's cowardly. Smart perhaps, but cowardly. So our killing style is nothing to brag about. Switch technological levels and the U.S. would be using guerrilla tactics like it did during the American Revolution and Al Qaeda would be killing Americans from 10 miles away with Apache helicopters. The difference between the warfare techniques is due to the asymmetric technology and infrastructure.
Now I will say that the people in our society overall are more moral than the people in the Middle East, but that is due primarily to the fact that science has quelled religion in our society allowing rational minds to prevail. Religion causes immorality, whereas rational thought and naturalism advances morality. That said, the most immoral part of our society is the warfare industry.
MisdemeanorRebel
2014 Jun 25, 4:38am
Drone strikes kill innocents because Intelligence uses almost wholly SIM card locators. All those billions upon billions, and we have no HUMINT to confirm or provide more detail, because we're Americans and think Technology is the answer to any and all problems.
The problem is most cell phones in the 3rd World are Paygo, and people swap phones all around.
When the drone reaches the area of the SIM card, instead of a terror meeting, it's a wedding. Perhaps a nephew of a terrorist is a guest at the wedding, and he borrowed one of his Uncles cell phones. Hellfire Away, right into the face of the 5 year old and dozens of other innocents!
"Why do they hate us? Must be because of our Freedom(tm)!"
Also, the GBU might hit the right house, but that doesn't prevent the shrapnel from the masonry from flying all around into the village square and neighboring homes.
War sucks. The idea that there can be pinprick attacks on precisely the correct targets is a USAF canard that has been recycled since WW2 and the 8th Army Air Force.
Strategist
2014 Jun 25, 11:03am
When you go after terrorists, innocent people are bound to die.
Prove it.
Read your list of victims above. None of them were intentionally killed.
If anything, I would argue that the deaths of innocents causes terrorism. One person's terrorist is another person's freedom fighters. According to the USA Patriot Act, George Washington and the other founding fathers were terrorists.
True. Does not mean we should not go after terrorists.
If our goal is to prevent terrorism, then we have to think how we would react if someone blew up an elementary school killing hundreds of our children. Then we must realize that other people would react the exact same way when we do this to them. Terrorist is a label used to dehumanize other people. It's no different than the Nazis referring to Jews as rats and criminals.
How would you define or label the 19 who flew into WTC. ??
That's exactly how many in our country portray human beings they label as terrorists. And that's all the word terrorist is, a god-damn label used to circumvent reason and specific evidence.
The Nazis may have labeled Jews as terrorists, but the Jews were still innocent. Terrorists who blow up children are not innocent. They are terrorists.
Strategist
2014 Jun 25, 11:05am
Well said. One of the largest problems with our society is that most Americans value only American lives. The rest of the world is irrelevant to them.
So you will back me up when I say terrorists groups who slaughter and rape women in Africa should be bombed?
Strategist
2014 Jun 25, 11:07am
In that scenario I would get biased and speak out against drone strikes. As that has not happened I can still be rational.
A valid point. However, you are neglecting your bias due to the fact that you live in the country using the drone strikes and not the country enduring the drone strikes.
Not at all. If we had that situation in America, I would welcome Mexico and Canada to conduct drone strikes in America.
Strategist
2014 Jun 25, 11:14am
Yes, religion is bad and it causes people to do evil things. However, the evil done by Al Qaeda does not justify the evil done by the U.S. You might as well say that Al Qaeda killed some Americans, so it's fine for anyone to gun down Americans. Same logic.
Killing Al Qaeda is fully justified and not evil, but moral. We don't have evil intentions.
As for suicide bombing, that just means the enemy is braver. Suicide bombings are evil because they are bombings and kill others, not because of the suicide.
Americans prefer to kill safely from a distance by pushing a button. That's cowardly. Smart perhaps, but cowardly. So our killing style is nothing to brag about. Switch technological levels and the U.S. would be using guerrilla tactics like it did during the American Revolution and Al Qaeda would be killing Americans from 10 miles away with Apache helicopters. The difference between the warfare techniques is due to the asymmetric technology and infrastructure.
Terrorists are not brave. They are brainwashed cowards. What's wrong with you?
Brave people are heroes. Are the suicide bombers your heroes?
Sure we would use guerilla warfare if we had to, but we would not be targeting innocent women and children. That is what makes us good.
Now I will say that the people in our society overall are more moral than the people in the Middle East, but that is due primarily to the fact that science has quelled religion in our society allowing rational minds to prevail. Religion causes immorality, whereas rational thought and naturalism advances morality.
I could not agree more. Have I convinced you on our disagreements?
These murderers are terrorists. Let's attack the country that sanctions this violence.
"3 years ago today, on April 5, 2010 Wikileaks released this leaked video footage from a U.S. Apache attack helicopter, which shows Reuters journalist Namir Noor-Eldeen, driver Saeed Chmagh, and about a dozen other people standing around together as the Apache blows them all to pieces with 30mm cannons, in a public square in Eastern Baghdad in 2007.
After the helicopter murders this group, a minivan arrives on the scene and some people attempt to transport some of the wounded to a hospital. These rescuers are fired upon as well, along with the children they had in the vehicle.
The official statement on this incident initially listed all adults as insurgents and claimed the US military did not know how the deaths occurred. They refused to release the video to Reuters, for an investigation of the murders. But fortunately for us, and unfortunately for them, Private Bradley Manning released the video to the folks at Wikileaks, who decrypted it and shared it under the name "Collateral Murder".
Let's attack the terrorist country that backed this serial killer.
"Gen. Augusto Pinochet led a coup against democratically elected Salvador Allende on the same date. With the support of the United States military, Pinochet began a bloody regime that lasted 17 years, killing thousands and torturing nearly 40,000 people."
Dan8267
2014 Jun 25, 1:37pm
When you go after terrorists, innocent people are bound to die.
Prove it.
Read your list of victims above. None of them were intentionally killed.
1. Even if you were right, that does not prove your assertion that innocent people must die to fight terrorism.
2. You are wrong. Each person was deliberately killed. They do not have to be the target in order to have been deliberately killed. There was always a person who decided that attempting to get the target merit killing some innocents in the area. That person made the deliberate choice to use a weapons system despite the resulting innocent deaths. Apathy does not wash away guilt. Simply because one murders others, not out of hate, but out of apathy does not make the crime any less.
True. Does not mean we should not go after terrorists.
The question is how to go after so-called terrorists. Our current techniques simply increase the amount of terrorism in the world. We create entire generations of young people who's lifetime goal will be vengeance against us for our evil acts. This makes us less safe.
How would you define or label the 19 who flew into WTC. ??
I don't. It is not necessary or useful to dehumanize someone in order to prosecute him in an open and just court. Nor is it necessary or useful to dehumanize someone in order to condemn his actions.
The Nazis may have labeled Jews as terrorists, but the Jews were still innocent. Terrorists who blow up children are not innocent. They are terrorists.
I agree. And when America blows up children, America is not innocent. America politicians go give the orders are terrorists. American soldiers who carry out those orders are terrorists. American citizens who support these policies are terrorists. The same standard applies to all.
So you will back me up when I say terrorists groups who slaughter and rape women in Africa should be bombed?
Not if it means bombing innocent women in their camps. I have no problem taking out those who are actively trying to rape or murder others. I have a big problem with killing innocent bystanders. There are rapists roaming the streets of New York City right now. Should we nuke New York?
Strategist says
Killing Al Qaeda is fully justified and not evil, but moral.
The phrase "killing Al Qaeda" is meaningless. One kills people, not organizations. And yes, killing people you consider evil or subhuman is still evil. At best it is the lesser of evils, but it is still evil.
Furthermore, considering those persons to be subhuman makes the act even more evil.
We don't have evil intentions.
Bull-fucking-shit. America is a country that has committed over a dozen genocides, has practiced slavery for hundreds of years and still does, and sexually assaults over 2.5 million of its citizens every year via strip searches and body cavity searches. America has supported genocidal dictators in South America, practice torture for decades (yes, even before Gitmo and 9/11), and threatened war with nations if they do not give up their natural resources to us.
To say that our nation has not acted on extremely selfish and evil intentions is utterly ridiculous.
Terrorists are not brave. They are brainwashed cowards. What's wrong with you?
Brave people are heroes. Are the suicide bombers your heroes?
You're a fucking idiot and emotionally immature.
The world brave means overcoming fear. There is nothing braver than overcoming the fear of death to accomplish something, which is exactly what suicide bombers do.
But like most retarded idiots, you cannot distinguish between the dichotomy of bravery/cowardice and the dichotomy of good/evil. Bravery is not inherently good. Bravery can be used to commit acts of evil, and fear can be used to commit acts of good. The attributes are independent.
Being brave does not make one a hero. Only a fool believes that. The NAZI soldier who rushes into battle to slaughter American G.I.s sure as fuck was brave. That does not mean he was on the side of good.
To say that suicide bombers are cowards is the god-damn stupidest thing ever said on this planet. If they were cowards, they would be less dangerous because fear would keep them from blowing up themselves and others.
Just because you want to use the word coward to insult someone, doesn't make them a coward. Just because you want to reserve the word brave for only people your puny mind considers heroes doesn't mean the fighters on the side of evil aren't brave. It just means you are stupid and are underestimating the enemy.
And to try to imply that my words in any way suggested that suicide bombers are heroes, not only shows your utter inability to comprehend my writings, but it also shows a complete lack of character. Only people with indefensible positions use Straw Man arguments.
Dan8267
2014 Jun 25, 1:42pm
Collateral Murder
Exactly. Our country has committed the same atrocities as our enemies. We have committed far more acts of terrorism than they have, and in doing so, we have motivated much of the world to despise us with good cause.
The answer to terrorism is not to respond with more terrorism, but to undermine the foundation that supports terrorism including both religion and corporate greed. Reigning in our warfare industry, preventing our corporations from exploiting poor nations, and advancing education, especially scientific education, in the Middle East are the most effective ways we can eliminate terrorism for good.
You want to stop terrorism? Don't bomb schools; build them. An educated population is the greatest fear of Islamic terrorist groups. Why do you think they are so scared of girls getting education?
So we are talking about the invasion of Iraq. And it was no surprise that civilians would be blown to bits and burned alive during the invasion and subsequent aggression.
100K died from "acts of Violence"... well that could be anything.
And how many Iraqi insurgence were killed by Iraqi govt forces and vice versa... and if you bother to notice... more have killed each other than by coalition forces.
Today did you notice who is killing who ?
You want to stop terrorism? Don't bomb schools; build them. An educated population is the greatest fear of Islamic terrorist groups. Why do you think they are so scared of girls getting education?
No wonder they have been teaching Nuclear physics in the middle east, for several decades...
Bull-fucking-shit. America is a country that has committed over a dozen genocides, has practiced slavery for hundreds of years and still does, and sexually assaults over 2.5 million of its citizens every year via strip searches and body cavity searches. America has supported genocidal dictators in South America, practice torture for decades (yes, even before Gitmo and 9/11), and threatened war with nations if they do not give up their natural resources to us.
Laughable... only Dan comes up with the same nonsense...
Dan8267
2014 Jun 25, 1:55pm
Laughable... only Dan comes up with the same nonsense...
Hey pussy, you're free to try to contradict any of the things I said. I'm free to kick your ass with mountains of evidence. Please do challenge me. I enjoy making you look the fool.
PAKISTAN
Name | Age | Gender
Noor Aziz | 8 | male
Abdul Wasit | 17 | male
Noor Syed | 8 | male
Wajid Noor | 9 | male
Syed Wali Shah | 7 | male
Ayeesha | 3 | female
Qari Alamzeb | 14| male
Shoaib | 8 | male
Been to Chicago lately ? Might want to check the Gang infested hoods one day..
Hey pussy, you're free to try to contradict any of the things I said. I'm free to kick your ass with mountains of evidence. Please do challenge me. I enjoy making you look the fool.
Same old bull shit ... typical ! well forget it .. not going to change.. so have a good cry and stick your tonge ups some terrorists ass and call him daddy..... Drones are flying killing off the bad guys... so fuck you!
another fucking bad guy going down.. every fucking day!
they started it .. we will finish it...
and some fucking Socialist Prick has a problem with it.. laughable..
So we are talking about the invasion of Iraq. And it was no surprise that civilians would be blown to bits and burned alive during the invasion and subsequent aggression.
100K died from "acts of Violence"... well that could be anything.
And how many Iraqi insurgence were killed by Iraqi govt forces and vice versa... and if you bother to notice... more have killed each other than by coalition forces.
Today did you notice who is killing who ?
Wrongo. Read on. Coalition (i.e., USA) warplanes were described as the cause.
Y
2014 Jun 25, 2:41pm
Try to be compassionate and not so hard on them.
They are low information posters.
It's not their fault.
They live in some doped up nirvinaworld where everybody's just happy and the world is devoid of people wanting to hack your head off.
In reality, they just want to be left alone to smoke their stash....
and some fucking Socialist Prick has a problem with it.. laughable..
Dan8267
2014 Jun 26, 1:54pm
Drones are flying killing off the bad guys... so fuck you!
The problem is that they are killing dozens of innocent men, women, and children for every "bad guy" killed, which you would know if you actually read the evidence presented to you, dumb fuck.
3. I am not for drone strikes as they are being operated by the Obama administration because for every alleged terrorist killed by a drone strike, 10 to 50 innocent people including children are killed
But hey, if killing multitudes of innocents is justified to get one bad guy then let's start with your family. Until you're willing to sacrifice them to get a bad guy, you can take your hypocrisy and shove it up your ass.
Y
2014 Jun 26, 2:17pm
Around these parts that could be taken as a compliment.
Until you're willing to sacrifice them to get a bad guy, you can take your hypocrisy and shove it up your ass.
Strategist
2014 Jun 26, 2:39pm
1. Even if you were right, that does not prove your assertion that innocent people must die to fight terrorism.
Innocent people are always the victims of any conflict. We do our best to avoid the deaths of innocent people, while terrorists do their best to kill innocent people.
2. You are wrong. Each person was deliberately killed. They do not have to be the target in order to have been deliberately killed. There was always a person who decided that attempting to get the target merit killing some innocents in the area. That person made the deliberate choice to use a weapons system despite the resulting innocent deaths. Apathy does not wash away guilt. Simply because one murders others, not out of hate, but out of apathy does not make the crime any less.
No was except the terrorists are deliberately killed. By your logic all wars are murder, which is an entirely different philosophical argument.
True. Does not mean we should not go after terrorists.
The question is how to go after so-called terrorists. Our current techniques simply increase the amount of terrorism in the world. We create entire generations of young people who's lifetime goal will be vengeance against us for our evil acts. This makes us less safe.
OK, how would you go after terrorists?
How would you define or label the 19 who flew into WTC. ??
I don't. It is not necessary or useful to dehumanize someone in order to prosecute him in an open and just court. Nor is it necessary or useful to dehumanize someone in order to condemn his actions.
You have no problem claiming Americans are murderers. Kind of hypocritical isn't it.
We want to dehumanize terrorists, we want to kill them even more. Killing them is what saves innocent lives.
The Nazis may have labeled Jews as terrorists, but the Jews were still innocent. Terrorists who blow up children are not innocent. They are terrorists.
I agree. And when America blows up children, America is not innocent. America politicians go give the orders are terrorists. American soldiers who carry out those orders are terrorists. American citizens who support these policies are terrorists. The same standard applies to all.
Wow. You don't want to label terrorists who blow up children, but have no problem calling Americans who support killing terrorists, as being terrorists. Does not sound rational to me.
Terrorists are not brave. They are brainwashed cowards. What's wrong with you?
Brave people are heroes. Are the suicide bombers your heroes?You're a fucking idiot and emotionally immature.
I just won the debate. I knew you had no chance at all. :)
. One of the largest problems with our society is that most Americans value only American lives. The rest of the world is irrelevant to them.
I seriously cannot agree more on this one. what you stated is a hard FACT ! . its just too deep in the culture and clearly exposes the value we put on non-white lives.
i guess most americans view them like animals and the only thing that matters is strategic interest.
Just watch TV and general discussion about the iraq war .
I have watched 100s of them in TV and radio.
All the talk is only about how many dollars we lost and the 1/10000 ratio american lives that were lost and zero ..zilch ..nada ...talk about thousands of innocent lives of iraqi people !
an iraqi parent or kid is no different than any other american parent or kid.
The fact that you could just go kill thousands of people as a "preemptive" measure shows the callousness and disregard for non-white lives .
imagine china bombs the whole city of sanfrancisco because their internal reports showed that we might be planning on nuking them. after that imagine, the only talk in china is on how much money they unnecessarily lost on the bombs
then ..would you view them as humans with empathy towards other humans or would you view them as monsters ?
when was the last time you actually heard about the total count of iraqi people who died due to bush war on cnn/fox/cnbc..etc? these are channels which probably will spend 2 hours with talking heads on the war but not one mention of the count.
same with all other american wars .
and people wonder why all other countries hate us.
from wiki:
" A large-scale survey of Iraqi households by UNICEF, published in 2012, estimated that between 800,000 and a million Iraqi children under 18 – or about five percent of Iraqi children – have lost one or both of their parents"
Y
2014 Jun 26, 10:56pm
Blame it on Germany and Japan.
They taught us a lot of bad things, starting world wars and dragging us into it all.
The result of that is the industrial military complex you see today.
Now, nobody fucks with us. We learned our lesson. The world is full of savage animals who would enslave or behead you if given the chance.
You take the high ground because you have not experienced the nazi foot on your throat, nor the heat of the human ovens. You have reaped the protected and rights filled life other people in oppressive nations can only dream about. You are soft and naive about what lies beyond your borders.
Your statement below demonstrates ignorance of the ways of the world.
You want callousness and disregard for any human life? Go after Burger King and McDonalds and the shit they serve that will eventually kill you.
The fact that you could just go kill thousands of people as a "preemptive" measure shows the callousness and disregard for non-white lives .
imagine china bombs the whole city of sanfrancisco because their internal reports showed that we might be planning on nuking them. after that imagine, the only talk in china is on how much money they unnecessarily lost on the bombs
then ..would you view them as humans with empathy towards other humans or would you view them as monsters ?
Every American knows there were no WMD's in Iraq, and that we invaded a country under false pretexts. Sure, the US media was complicit in hiding the grim realities of dead civilians. Sure, the media implied that the bombs were so smart that they only killed the bad guys when they exploded, and not the nearby innocents. And yes, many Americans believed that Iraq had something to do with 9-11 at the time of the invasion. But most Americans, especially now that a destabilized Iraq is coming apart which IS being covered by the US media, know that the war was a huge mistake, although as you point out, they don't think the war was a mistake because the USA killed so many Iraqi people, and made a living hell for the rest.
So are Americans basically evil? Are they uncaring pigs who merely want to consume? Are they ignorant xenophobes?
One thing is for certain - all Americans have blood on their hands.
But most Americans, especially now that a destabilized Iraq is coming apart which IS being covered by the US media, know that the war was a huge mistake, although as you point out, they don't think the war was a mistake because the USA killed so many Iraqi people, and made a living hell for the rest.
and people wonder how Germans could stand still and witness one of the biggest horrors of this century ( Holocaust). Its this lack of human connection to another human separated by artificial identification ( tribe,race, country..etc). The day people "genuinely feel" that all human are same , we will never have genocides and mass killings.
the more you lack the connection , the more dangerous it is ! I certainly feel that most americans lack that connection with rest of the world.
You can go for wars and kill thousands if needed to protect yourself but not to acknowledge
and feel that other people are humans like you is very disturbing.
Strategist
2014 Jun 27, 3:44am
and people wonder how Germans could stand still and witness one of the biggest horrors of this century ( Holocaust). Its this lack of human connection to another human separated by artificial identification ( tribe,race, country..etc). The day people "genuinely feel" that all human are same , we will never have genocides and mass killings.
the more you lack the connection , the more dangerous it is ! I certainly feel that most americans lack that connection with rest of the world.
And yet you would not support helping people facing genocide.
Strategist
2014 Jun 27, 3:46am
You can go for wars and kill thousands if needed to protect yourself but not to acknowledge
and feel that other people are humans like you is very disturbing.
Please read previous post.
and people wonder how Germans could stand still and witness one of the biggest horrors of this century ( Holocaust). Its this lack of human connection to another human separated by artificial identification ( tribe,race, country..etc). The day people "genuinely feel" that all human are same , we will never have genocides and mass killings.
the more you lack the connection , the more dangerous it is ! I certainly feel that most americans lack that connection with rest of the world.
And yet you would not support helping people facing genocide.
are you going to kill half a million people for that ?
If you are so concerned about genocide , go to africa which needs the help most.
do you really want me to believe , a country which values money lost on war more than half a million people killed during war so much so that its not ever a discussion point, cares about some people who are getting suppressed in another country .stop the hypocrisy already !
and this lack of discussion is after the fact that we know the war was a mistake !
common we all know how much people here connect to these african/asian/middle eastern people.
Strategist
2014 Jun 27, 3:52am
and people wonder how Germans could stand still and witness one of the biggest horrors of this century ( Holocaust). Its this lack of human connection to another human separated by artificial identification ( tribe,race, country..etc). The day people "genuinely feel" that all human are same , we will never have genocides and mass killings.
the more you lack the connection , the more dangerous it is ! I certainly feel that most americans lack that connection with rest of the world.
And yet you would not support helping people facing genocide.
are you going to kill half a million people for that ?
If you are so concerned about genocide , go to africa which needs the help most.
Are you willing to let a half million just get slaughtered?
We took out Kaddafi, did half a million die because of us or did we end up helping millions.
I suggested helping the Africans too, who are getting slaughtered and raped, no one cared. Just received BS.
You talk a lot about how we don't care for other humans, while at the same time you want us to just watch the genocide. Mother of all hypocrisy.
Are you willing to let a half million just get slaughtered?
We took out Kaddafi, did half a million die because of us or did we end up helping millions.
I suggested helping the Africans too, who are getting slaughtered and raped, no one cared. Just received BS.
You talk a lot about how we don't care for other humans, while at the same time you want us to just watch the genocide. Mother of all hypocrisy.
Then show me one evidence where we have discussed the loss of so many civilian lives in iraq due to the war. give me a pointer to any TV debate or comment from political figure, comments from national news reporters ..etc
For all these years, whenever the iraq war comes up, the so called "concerned" people are only concerned about the dollars we spent and the soldiers we lost!!! I watched presidential debates and even there you could see the same disgusting thing. it just reflects the reality that deep down no body cares about human lives in these countries and i am sure this attitude carries over in to the decision making process. I don't think human lives ( of these countries) is ever a part of the equation when the war decision is made. it only about our strategic interests!
The same way Hitler looked at his peoples strategic interest.
the day we add the pain and suffering of other people in to the equation along with our own strategic interests, we will be fighting more just and balanced wars.
this is especially needed when you have more power than others.
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Recall Johns Hopkins epidemiologists concluded that 100,000 mostly women, children and elderly were killed during the opening invasion itself. Many more after that. Did the pilots that blew apart women and kids get a nice welcome from their kiddies upon returning home? Was it on TeeVee?
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