patrick.net

Honest Abe says

Profit per gallon at ExxonMobile - two cents per gallon.

That's what "THEY" say isn't it?

I'm sure you mean Earl the Franchise owner's profits.
Noboby is blaming Earl.

shrekgrinch says

Also, overall profit margins for big oil is in the single percentage digits. Meanwhile, Apple and Google have double digit margins. But you don’t see the libs bitching about ‘greedy computer giants’ do you?
No…esp since Apple and Google are both darlings of the Left.

Um, yeah, in the real world liberals bitch about the huge profits (the largest ever this past year) for big oil because everyone must use oil for just about everything. The cost is factored into everything we buy that's shipped. We use oil to make plastics that make up just about everything we use including the instrument on which I'm writing this post. We must use oil to make gasoline so that we can get to and from work. etc. etc. etc.

And in that same real world liberals don't bitch about Apple and Google making giant profits because iPhones, iPods, iPads, etc. are luxury items that no one really "needs." Last time I checked you don't need to use gmail (which is free) or use Google search engine (which is free) because there are many other free options out there. Also Google's phone operating system, Android, is free and open source. Google makes its money off of advertising. Advertising isn't something that your "everyday Joe" "needs" to do.

Your "everday Joe" needs to use oil every day.

But if you are in Wackedout Bizzarroland you bitch about Apple and Google making huge profits and you ignore the mega record setting profits that big oil has made in the past year that have run up the price of everything you use.

Shrek,

Your rewrites and misinterpretations are most amusing. It's incredible to read how you misunderstand and can't comprehend what another person is writing.

Of course no one needs the iGadgets, etc.

People do need furniture, houses, cooking utensils, medical equipment, some chemical compounds made with petrochemicals, etc. which are all made with petroleum products. You didn't adress this. Instead you twisted the meaning of what is going on in your head.

Making giant record making profits for selling entertainment and luxury items that no one really needs is not a problem.

Making giant record making profits through price manipulation, gouging, and corporate welfare for selling a product that everyone needs and must pay for while bankrupting an entire economy is a problem.

The only hypocrite here is you.

How much do do Big oil companies benefit from our military (which is a massive expenditure)? Proportionately quite a bit I'd say...

Honest Abe says

Profit per gallon at ExxonMobile - two cents per gallon.

"honest abe", not really. You are either confused about retailers vs wholesalers or just lying. The 2 cents is the absolute bottom end for the super cut rate stations. I've lost a couple fuel pumps buying from these guys. You get what you pay for.

There are only 820 stations actually owned by exxonmobile. The rest are independent businesses that have nothing at all to do with exxonmobile other than buying gas from them. The two cents goes to the retailer. Exxonmobile makes it profits at every other step of the chain, drilling, transport, refining, and transport.

Homework assignment, what is the aggregate profit on all these steps put together? Good luck finding that number.

I can hear it right now. Liberal, progressive, socialist heads exploding…trying to figure out how to explain it away. Hahaha.

Indeed what a know-nothing laughing jackass you are -- now trolling by defending big oil.

XOM FY11 Gross Profit: $108B.
Overheads: $55B

Operating Income: $53B

From XOM's 10-Q I see they handle 2.4Mbpd, or ~36B gallons a year.

So their profit is more in the $1.50 per gallon range, plus another $1.50 their overheads are consuming.

It would take a conservative of Honest Abe's calibre to defend a monopoly as big and rapacious as XOM. Bravo!

Corner gas station profits are indeed minuscule, which is why they are disappearing from communities.

But looking at XOM's income statement gives us an idea of their operations:

Gross Revenue $370B.
Cost of revenue $260B

So ignoring pump taxes, ~70% of what we pay at the pump is going to the state owners of the oil.

15% goes to Exxon's overheads -- salaries, pensions, etc.

0.5% is R&D
4% is depreciation
5% was paid in income taxes
10% was left over as profit to the shareholders

You want to know the funny thing-- here Honest Abe is railing against socialism, but the happiest and wealthiest nation on the globe -- Norway -- has done a damn good job of socializing its oil production sector.

Alaska has also done well with its Permanent Fund, which is entirely socialist in character.

Talk about heads exploding.

Apple and Google have double digit margins. But you don’t see the libs bitching about ‘greedy computer giants’ do you?

Before I discovered Georgism I didn't have an answer to this kind of argument.

After I discovered Georgism, everything became clear.

To the extent XOM labors and invests to produce the gasoline that I dispense into my tank, they deserve the profits they get from me.

Historically, for the most part, big oil has just been cruising on resource rents and not actually creating supply.

Profiting from mere ownership of land (and its natural resources) -- bad.

Profiting from labor -- good. That's the difference between Apple and Exxon Mobile. Remove XOM from the picture, and nothing really changes, XOM does not manufacture oil, the oil was created millions of years ago. But remove Apple, and the computers we use would not be half as cool as they are now, since Apple -- Steve Jobs actually -- has historically led the industry to the next big advance (Apple II, Macintosh, DTP, the web, app phones).

No…esp since Apple and Google are both darlings of the Left.

It's really bizarre how Shrek filters everything through a left-right thing. Pretty defective mind you've got there, Shrek.

Either that or Shrek's just projecting like a lighthouse. Maybe that's it, since big oil is certainly fully behind rolling back our country to the good ol' McKinley days, before all that trust-busting, government pollution regulations, etc etc. Honest Abe seems to be defending Big Oil just because the oil major's massive profits piss us liberals off.

Honest Abe says

Profit per gallon at ExxonMobile - two cents per gallon. Tax’s - 56 cents per gallon (Federal, State and California sales tax). Isn’t is painfully obvious just how greedy they are (the government, not big oil). I can hear it right now. Liberal, progressive, socialist heads exploding…trying to figure out how to explain it away. Hahaha.

Translator:
I'm bored and have no life. I'd like to start another thread on patnet about libs bad, repubs good. I want attention and hope that shrek and trout are online so that someone will rush to my defense when people point out that my post and those of my buddies are:

simchaland says

in Wackedout Bizzarroland

bob2356 says

confused about retailers vs wholesalers or just lying

Troy says

bizarre how Shrek filters everything through a left-right thing

Troy says

projecting like a lighthouse

...and might I add to Sherk:

shrekgrinch says

Then obviously I wasn’t referring to Andriod, as I was referring to what Google makes profits on.

Sherk, didn't you just recently chastise someone for ending a sentence with a preposition? Gotta dust off your English primer and work on sentence structure. Your angry rants would be easier digested if they were in a proper format. ;)

Honest Abe says

I can hear it right now. Liberal, progressive, socialist heads exploding…trying to figure out how to explain it away. Hahaha.

I know conservatives who think that high taxes on gasoline make obvious sense, for reasons having nothing to do with the revenues to govt. That's just a bonus. Hint: oil is a finite resource. We already found all the easy to get oil in this country, what, 30 years ago.

I'm not going to break it down for you Abe, because your head might explode trying to understand it.

Even IF the profit of big oil is 10% (five times more than reported), the government's take is more than 25%. This begs the question: Who is more greedy, the entity which does all the work, takes all the risk and nets 10%...or the entity which nets 25% - for doing nothing?

Liberals will never be able to answer that question because their brain is locked on the notion of class warfare. The successful business man is the enemy. The poor man is downtrodden and needs "help" from his benevolent government.

Unfortunately America has been divided into two classes. Those who work for a living and those who vote for a living. Spreading the wealth robs both the recipients and the donors of productivity. The recipient is stripped of his self-esteem and work ethic. The donors are robbed of their sovereignty, their labor and their earnings. Only a self serving or weak minded liberal would support such a concept.

Honest Abe says

Even IF the profit of big oil is 10% (five times more than reported)

Do you have a single-digit IQ? "two cents per gallon" is not 2%, not since 1979 at least. Plus that 10% isn't counting XOM's 15% administrative and labor overheads -- XOM's actual piece of the action is 25% or so.

This begs the question

grr. "Raises" not "begs". Question-begging is an informal fallacy.

Who is more greedy, the entity which does all the work, takes all the risk and nets 10%…or the entity which nets 25% - for doing nothing?

Still with the brave defense of big oil's windfall profits. You, as a conservative, do credit to your kind here, showing us how utterly moronic conservative arguments can be. I take you off of ignore for the fun of it.

Government has done "far from nothing" for big oil. Government has built all the roads and paid for all the military successes that allow us to run the world to our benefit.

Liberals will never be able to answer that question because their brain is locked on the notion of class warfare

I just did, above. If you weren't so wrapped up in spewing your clown-like ideological drivel you might have been able to understand it. Cliff Notes version: Profits are good, rents are bad.

Only a self serving or weak minded liberal would support such a concept.

This vintage Honest Abe foo-fah is just diversionary squid ink to try to slink away from the fact of being utterly wrong -- several orders of magnitude wrong -- about XOM's profits now. They pull $3 out of every gallon of gas, half overhead and half profit. Pretty fuckin' far away from your silly 2c assertion that started this.

But par for the course wrt how screwed up conservatives are these days. Epistemic closure indeed -- you guys are just utterly unreachable. Did you really think XOM only sees 2c profit on a $4 gallon of gas? This just boggles my mind; I joke about conservatives being clowns, retarded, etc., but maybe there's a there there. Would certainly explain a lot.

I wonder how much traction your anti-goverment bullshit will have this year and next. Reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSELOCMmw4A#t=50s

The oil companies are amazing, and yet people hate them. These are people who can locate spots thousands of feet deep in rock under thousands of feet of water and can actually GET it into pipes, onto land, and into refineries. If you have ever done ANYTHING related to machines and nature and the ocean, you would appreciate this tremendous feat of technology and brains.
American oil companies selling us oil is good for the USA for several reasons. The first is that they pay taxes, the second is they employ Americans, the third is they often pay dividends to their shareholders. Unless you own NO mutual funds, you probably enjoy dividends from Exxon.
In contrast, the evil foreign government oil companies benefit from our money but it is a one way street.
Sending millions to Pemex helps enrich Mexico and pay the government's bills, as does money sent to Iran, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, etc.
The USA has 285 trillion (T) feet of natural gas. You can run cars, trucks and buses fine on it. We have all natural gas buses in my city, and Honda sells a natural gas car today.
Since Americans spend about the same on energy as we do on all taxes (8-9% GDP) we should buy energy from American companies. This will 1. employ Americans 2. help our balance of trade 3. enrich our treasury with taxes 4. enrich ourselves as shareholders.
If you refuse out of spite to own Exxon, then you are just a nut and should put a windmill on your roof, to match the propeller on the top of your hat.

These are people who can locate spots thousands of feet deep in rock under thousands of feet of water and can actually GET it into pipes, onto land, and into refineries. If you have ever done ANYTHING related to machines and nature and the ocean, you would appreciate this tremendous feat of technology and brains.

yup, which is why I say the return they get from labor and capital is good return.

That's not all of their return, or even much. Much of their return is just rent-collection on windfall profits.

American oil companies selling us oil is good for the USA for several reasons. The first is that they pay taxes

True enough, and I think they should pay more.

the second is they employ Americans

This is not a net win if their inflated salaries are coming from extortionate prices at the pump.

the third is they often pay dividends to their shareholders

The secret socialists up in Alaska pay dividends to everyone. That's a better model, though the Norwegians sequester this money flow by directing it into their pension fund -- their pension fund has $100,000 per capita, all from oil royalties plus accumulated market gains. The US could have done that starting 100 years ago, but we are not as smart as the Norwegians.

If you refuse out of spite to own Exxon

Exxon is ripping us off blind. They have a 2.5% dividend rate. Your advice to buy XOM is like recommending to German Jews that they buy stock in IG Farben and Hugo Boss.

The best fix is to do what Norway is doing. Socialize it.