patrick.net

Just because it's small batch doesn't guarantee it's good beer. I just know for a fact that I've never had a good macro-brew, and due to low quality, they all taste like piss-water, or no flavor. The damage they've done to the lager style is immeasurable.

I do happen to live in the mecca of beer brewing though in San Diego, so the good ones are REALLY good. Dogfish head is East Coast, they've got some good stuff. Not sure you'll ever see Three Floyd's, but if you do, don't pass it up. Other than that, Trappist Rochefort 8, 10, or 12 is good, Paulner Heferweizen. Try checking out beeradvocate, or ratebeer for good stuff in your area.

Tenpoundbass says

I loathe the term "Micro Brewery" it sounds like a hobbyist farting in a bottle swearing that it adds to the body of the beer.
I avoid them, my daughter's drag me to Micro Breweries, I have never drank any beer at any of them, that made me think I need to go back.
Their names and flavors are always way off in terms of the flavor concurring with the name.

I'm no expert on beer by any means, but I do enjoy trying things that are different and unique, even if it's not "objectively better".

If I'm going to drink a beer that I have to fight back any off tastes, and don't have the flavor of a classic Ale, Pilsner, or Lager.
I would rather then drink my own failed creations, and be brewing my own beer, with the intention of someday nailing the flavor I'm looking for..
Most hipsters operating micro breweries are NOT brew masters by any means. They bought some equipment and go on a generic recipe then get cute and add their own twists. I have talked to a few owners at the micro breweries, they admit they are not classic brew masters.
Youngsters today like beers brewed with orange peels and wheat. It's just not my thing.

Tenpoundbass says

Ale, Pilsner, or Lager.

Pilsner is a bit of a nitch type. If you like that, surprised you don't also mention Kolch, Heferweizen, or Gose.

Tenpoundbass says

Most hipsters operating micro breweries are NOT brew masters by any means.

Absolutely false. The more well known micro-breweries in San Diego all have brewmasters at the helm. It's a title that requires a degree, although I do think quality and expertise are less tied to "experts" than other fields where defenestration is sorely needed.

Tenpoundbass says

Youngsters today like beers brewed with orange peels and wheat.

I believe that's a specific style called Whit beer, that is just as old as the others you've mentioned. Not a fan myself, although I have had one beer of that style I enjoyed.

If you want to complain about stupid trends, why haven't you mentioned the ridiculously high alcohol content of some beers, particularly the triple IPA, where the alcohol flavor is ALL that you taste. There's no skill involved in that. But take something like Speedway Stout, a 13% beer where the alcohol is completely disguised. Great beer, takes TONS of skill, but watch out!
Or complain about how the traditional IPA style that originated in England has been taken over by fruity, flowery, cloudy variations that completely diminish the distinguishing characteristic of the style(bitterness).
Or complain about how macro-brews have completely destroyed people's faith in Lager as a legitimate beer style.
Or how people talk about Becks instead of German beers that have been brewed for nearly a thousand years like Paulner or Spatan.

AmericanKulak says

Who cares, too late.

This would be a good start towards an apology.

NuttBoxer says

Not sure you'll ever see Three Floyd's, but if you do, don't pass it up.

Overrated. They're out of Indiana so they're all over by me. They had cool bottles and that's "why" it's popular. It's not good beer. Think Fear and Loathing type artwork. People bought with their eyes.

It's not even popular in this region. Pretty sure I met an owner at some festival at some point when they were young. Not bad people, but it's definitely a beer snob beer because of their limited production. No different than Spotted Cow in Wisconsin, which only sells in Wisconsin. So it's scarcity as marketing. Three Floyds is no different. They know it won't sell nationally.

NuttBoxer says

Tenpoundbass says

Most hipsters operating micro breweries are NOT brew masters by any means.

Absolutely false. The more well known micro-breweries in San Diego all have brewmasters at the helm. It's a title that requires a degree, although I do think quality and expertise are less tied to "experts" than other fields where defenestration is sorely needed.

10# is right on this one. It's the same argument with BBQ. I can make better BBQ than anyone I know and I get requests for it. I have zero formal training. I've had better home brews from friends. The "brewmaster" title is a pure bullshit title to get you to spend money on bullshit "schooling." Brewing beer is not that complicated. It's about getting flavor YOU want or others if you want to sell to others.

I know we've all had awful BBQ. We've all had awful beer. Some made up title to part you from your money is stupid if you think it means something. Fact is they're salesmen, not brewmasters.

AmericanKulak says

It's been my experience when a memo is released, and they go in great detail to outline who the replacement will now report to.
Then there's going to be huge shake up and lots of people are about to be axed. When that's not the case, they announce the replacement then go on in a cutsie way about their bio, their dog and long walks on the beach. They make sure everyone knows who the new person reports to, so that when the Bobs show up at your desk. You wont question their authority.

90% of all bad beers taste the same(within the same genre). It either takes great skill to craft a recipe that stands out, or it's like catching lightening in the bottle.
For Micro Breweries I think a lot of times, the later happens. They brew a batch of beer that has a great bouquet and hits your throat sweet spot.
The problem is trying to duplicate that batch again, they rarely if ever hit again. In fact patrons of a micro brewery will talk about that batch, while they drink the inferior subsequent batch. One small step in the process can alter the whole batch of beer for better or worse. Sometimes when they make a great batch, they don't realize it was because they let more time lapse between a process than they realized or remembered, or something like that. Even if the ingredient measurements were always precise and exact every time.

WookieMan says

Overrated. They're out of Indiana so they're all over by me. They had cool bottles and that's "why" it's popular. It's not good beer. Think Fear and Loathing type artwork. People bought with their eyes.

It's not even popular in this region. Pretty sure I met an owner at some festival at some point when they were young. Not bad people, but it's definitely a beer snob beer because of their limited production. No different than Spotted Cow in Wisconsin, which only sells in Wisconsin. So it's scarcity as marketing. Three Floyds is no different. They know it won't sell nationally.

I had a Three Floyd's that somehow made it out to the West Coast. It was outstanding. They are consistently highly rated on respected beer rating web sites, where the focus is flavor, fuck the artwork.

I think with you guys who don't like these beers, it's very possible you haven't drank as much as I have, and therefore don't have the same pallet. Or you're exactly what you rail against, beer snobs, who care more about macro-brands than flavor.

I've had more than a few beers I did not like, and wouldn't finish. It's the price I pay for wanting to try new things. But if I didn't do that, I would have missed out on the best beers I've ever had.

WookieMan says

Brewing beer is not that complicated. It's about getting flavor YOU want or others if you want to sell to others.

I'm curious, how many times have you guys brewed 10,000 gallon batches? How often have released the same beer that tastes the same way every time, year after year? How many styles have you brewed?

If it where that easy, then why have we all had bad beer from people who make a career of it?

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/bud-light-marketing-executive-goes-leave-after-disastrous-trans-tiktok-stunt

https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/speechless-saturday-april-22-2023

Miss Heinerscheid, pictured above, is not smiling now. But, before being given some time off to reflect on what went wrong (an inexplicable conundrum she continues wrestling with), she had been working on some more terrific ideas for the beleaguered brand. She was thinking something like maybe a Bud-Light sponsored photoshoot of plus-sized models in micro-bikinis? Wait! It would be even better if they were all bearded! Bold, bearded, blubbery, beachwear beauties hopped up on Bud Light!

That’s six B’s right there!

But for some reason, Miss Heinerscheid’s new marketing pitch failed to grip the corporate imagination, and according to Ad Age, the Big Beer Brewer brought in new brand bosses at Bud Light. ...

Booger says

I confirmed that Pabst is not associated with Bud in any way.

NuttBoxer says

I think with you guys who don't like these beers, it's very possible you haven't drank as much as I have, and therefore don't have the same pallet. Or you're exactly what you rail against, beer snobs, who care more about macro-brands than flavor.

There's not a person on this site that's had more beers than me, I can promise that. Even if you're 70. My semi-roomate during college years would buy a different 6 back every day of the week, each of us. So 14 DIFFERENT beers weekly. We had a beer wall where we cut out the side of the case and pinned it up. I've tried waaaaaaaaaay over a thousand beers. We'd drive 30 minutes each way to different liquor stores.

Three Floyds was one of the first. It's not good. I'm in the 1% of beer drinkers that have had pretty much every thing besides tiny micro brews in Livingston, MT. Any brand that sells national I have 100% had it. I'm 50 miles from the biggest drinking state in the nation. You don't have to believe me but I for sure have had more beers than anyone here.

Also never trust a rating website for anything. People are paid to make negative reviews AND positive reviews. You eat and drink with your eye, so graphics do matter. We travel a lot. I like to go back after the trip and look at the reviews again. They're mostly shit and made up lies. Our brokerage had a Yelp review that was a flat out lie and we could do nothing. NEVER trust a review site. Especially for something soooo subjective like beer. Guys that have had 80 different beers think they're know it alls. They're not.

Also, atmosphere matters. Go to Aruba and have an Amstel Bright on the beach and tell me it wasn't good. That's when you know you're a beer snob if you don't enjoy that. Or a Red Stipe in the Caribbean. Kalik in Bahamas. Presidente in the Dominican. It's just like pairing wine with food. I've probably had 60 beers you can't even get in the states. I've had a lot of beer. I don't drink any hard stuff, mixed drinks, etc. Maybe a mimosa from time to time.

You sound like my brother-in-law. He used to drink craft beer, but at some point he stopped and only buys shitty Mexican macro-brews(live in TJ). I think for him it was peer pressure. Not say that's your reason, but I do know people who have been exposed to good beer and gone back to cheap, poorly made beers just because...

Red Stripe, Amstel, Beck's, Budweiser, they all taste like fizzy sour water to me. Due to the way sugar messes with me know, I don't drink as often as I used to, so I can't afford to waste my drinks.

I've found the ratings on beeradvocate, and ratebeer to be fairly accurate. There are some beers higher than I would rate them, but we all have different tastes. There are also some I will likely never try because they're overhyped, and I won't wait in line that long. Pliny the Younger comes to mind. Although if I had a chance at a Westvelteran, I would take it, even with the line.

In your area, an overrated beer is Goose Island. One you probably have that is really good is Bell's from Michigan. Although Two Hearted is an average IPA for me, way overrated. They have a darker one named the Edmund Fitzgerald, outstanding.

In my area Mike Hess, never had anything from them I really liked. Their beers all taste kind of watered down. Mickkeller however, I've liked almost everything they make.

When we go to the beach I bring good craft beer, and my wife's family always looks forward to it. They mostly stick to IPA's, or Mexican macros, or wine, but whatever I bring, almost any style, they like it. I guarantee I can anyone here the perfect beer with just a little info, even had-it-all's like you. And it would never be a macro brew.

Patrick says

Miss Heinerscheid, pictured above, is not smiling now. But, before being given some time off to reflect on what went wrong (an inexplicable conundrum she continues wrestling with), she had been working on some more terrific ideas for the beleaguered brand.

Look, Dylan Mulvaney was promoting tampons of some sort. This is an old marketing technique, especially for failing or old brands and it works with two assumptions 1) people will buy it anyhow that already buy it 2) it will get chatter about it and possibly include new people.

This is why "Star Wars" was "woke". Fans of the series were going to see it ANYHOW, even if it did suck, and people who were watching all the commotion, wanted to find out what the commotion was about.

Well, the failure here with Budweiser, is everybody knows it's not a good beer. People buy it because it's got a very standard flavor (which Miller does, and Coors, Pabst, etc) and nobody really likes it, but nobody really hates it either. It's not a HARD beer to drink, it's just not very pleasant. So, in this case they immediately associated a beer that was already associated (a bit, jokingly) as a "beer for fags", as a beer for fags, and the people that already didn't drink it, knew the product wasn't going to change - it would be the same stuff it always was, and nearly everybody has tried these beers at one time or another.

I "didn't like beer" when I first had it, well, it's because it was beer like this. When I first had a "real" beer, oh I liked that! They had Pete's Wicked Ale (don't buy it today, they were bought out and they just replaced it with terrible beer with food coloring and flavor additives and still sold it at a markup), Samuel Adams, bunch of beers I don't even remember. They were like $1 or $2 more than a 6 pack of Bud, Miller, whatever. But I actually enjoyed them.

Canned beer back in the day also picked up flavor from the can back then. They fixed that sometime in the last decade, with a plastic coating on the interior. I was surprised to try a beer out of a can and find I actually enjoyed it, because that wasn't the case in 2005. I would say there is no difference between beer in a can and beer in a bottle now.

Patrick says

Not only will I never drink a Bud again, I will find out all related brands and avoid them, and tell everyone I know for the rest of my life to avoid them. I will not even remain in the presence of anyone drinking any of them. That's how much I loathe Bud now.

https://www.anheuser-busch.com/brands

AVOID:

10 Barrel
Beck's
Blue Point
Bon & Viv Spiked Seltzer
Breckenridge Brewery
Bud Light
Budweiser
Busch
Corona
Devils Backbone Brewing
Elysian Brewing
Fordham Brewing
Four Peaks Brewery
Golden Road Brewing
Goose Island Brewery
Green Valley Brewing
Hoegaarden
Hurricane
Johnny Appleseed
Karbach Brewing
King Cobra
Kona Brewing
LandShark Lager
Michelob
Modelo
Natural
Natural Light
Old Dominion Brewing
Omission Beer
Quilmes
Redbridge
Redhook
Rolling Rock
Shock Top
Spykes
Square Mile...

You’re going to have to boycott a lot more then that if you want to boycott every abinbev beer.

Just boycott bud light specifically. It’s much more effective. Not only is it shitty beer with lots of alternatives, but right now there’s a cultural momentum.

Sitting at a bar with your buddy he’s not going to give a shit that corona is also made by the same company and so we shouldn’t drink that either.

But if a little ribbing can get him to order a yingling over the bud light, at least while he hangs out with you, that’s huge.

These companies are leveraged out the ass. If we can drop bud light sales 5% they are out of business.

We need an easy, funny derogatory name for bud light you can rib your buddy with when you see him drink one.

I’m thinking “balls light”. “How’s that balls light tasting?”

https://www.barrons.com/articles/bud-light-exec-takes-leave-after-boycott-calls-15a86829

Two Bud Light Execs Leave After Calls to Boycott

Alissa Heinerscheid is taking a leave of absence as marketing vice president for Anheuser-Busch InBev’s Bud Light brand after calls to boycott the brand over its work with transgender social media influencer Dylan Mulvaney.

Heinerscheid’s boss Daniel Blake, who oversees marketing for Anheuser-Busch’s mainstream brands Budweiser and Bud Light, also took a leave of absence, a company spokeswoman told The Wall Street Journal.

NuttBoxer says

In your area, an overrated beer is Goose Island

Any Goose Island is absolute shit. We used to play shows at the Wrigleyville (Cubs park/gayvile) and got free beer. I'd bring my own... that's how bad that shit is.

I've been to Stone in Escondido about 6 years ago. I wouldn't call it bad for beers I've tried, but it was too hipster for me. They had food at the brewery and of course that's not what they do. But as someone that likes to cook and knows good food, it wasn't good. I do like Stone though.

NuttBoxer says

One you probably have that is really good is Bell's from Michigan.

Yup, have had kind of a lot of Bells. I think we did a month or two of only local(ish) beers during those college years. As in a previous comment the labeling of the package is what intrigued us to buy it. Packaging is probably 70-80% of the decision. 5% might be some rating and 5% might be a referral. The remain percentage is just fuck it I want to try something new.

Two Brothers is another regional brand that might sell national. Again we played shows there many times. Their beer sucks ass. Main brewery is in Warrenville, IL but everyone knows the Roundhouse in Aurora, IL. Walter Payton owned it at one point.

My issue with micro brews is idiots that can pick up cheap equipment and brew trash. But just happen to know enough people that like them to make it successful. It's not about actual flavor. That's how most Amazon resellers that are successful at start up. 100+ five star reviews from friends and family even though it's cheap Chinese trash.

I'm not saying you have bad taste in beer. It's different for everyone. Beer is an environment for me. I associate it with what I was doing at the time. Not worried about flavor necessarily, unless it was absolute trash. Location matters too. Hence why I went to Stone out in CA. It's a cool property, just over the top CA hipster vibe.

I know you've said you lived in Michigan, not sure if you snuck over to Wisconsin. I'm a supper club type person. Or dive bar feeling places. All food I've had in CA is crap. Of probably 20 meals I've yet to have anything that beats areas around me. Not the healthiest of food but it's actually good. I've yet to find a good meal in CA. I've had solid beers from there, but somehow food is lacking bigly.

Goose Island makes some wonderful stuff.

I don’t need to boycott BUd Light, because I don’t drink horse piss. Never have, never will.

PeopleUnited says

Goose Island makes some wonderful stuff.

I don’t need to boycott BUd Light, because I don’t drink horse piss. Never have, never will.

Beer is always going to be a debate. Goose Island is not good beer from my region. Nutt was correct with Bell's. There's much better in IL, WI, IN and MI. Haven't tried newer stuff in the last 5 years, but anything made in the last 20 years in this region I've had. Goose is not good beer. Again I go back to branding and marketing. That's what Goose was good at. Not beer making.

They make a lot of other brands under the ANHEUSER-BUSCH label as Patrick listed. Goose is generally speaking controlled by ANHEUSER-BUSCH. They own the brand. So by default you support Bud Light by buying Goose products. I drink Busch Light as my go to for quantity and price, willing to admit that and it supports bud, just isn't trans or gay is all.

At some point average is fine so I'm not breaking the bank on an unnecessary purchase is my take. I also don't want high percentage alcohol beers. I'm good at 4-4.5%. Anything higher is when I get hungover if I have 6 or more. Outside of mixing with other substances, I haven't been truly hung over in a decade. If you enjoy Goose go for it. Same with Three Floyds. Just not my jam.

WookieMan says

If you enjoy Goose go for it.

I rarely drink any brands main lineup. That includes goose, in fact all I recall I’ve had from them is their special seasonal stuff. Usually has higher alcohol content which usually means more flavor. Their 2022 Christmas IPA was amazing and I don’t even like IPA. Their beer hug sampler had some good stuff in it too. back to the Christmas IPA it was more malty than hoppy and I’d drink that again, but of course it was a season beer so may never see it again. I generally drink flavorful beers, not lagers and the like. But beer is so interesting, it really makes a difference what mood you are in, where you are at, what foods you pair it with. My guess is that since they got bought out in 2011 their mainline beers are just like everyone elses. That’s what my relatives tell me and they drink more beer than me. They say that Alaskan has been ruined since they were bought out. Perhaps the same is true for Kona? I don’t know because I rarely drink a beer brands mainstay beers. But I do like lime and Corona, and even Blue moon and an orange wedge, something special about fresh fruit just brings out something that was missing otherwise. Might sound strange but Corona and lime is just perfect for me at the beach.

Another excellent brewery from your region is Central Waters out of Amherst. But I don’t drink their main line stuff either. Just the seasonal special releases. They have some beers they release at the same time every year that are near perfection. I think maybe goose island does that too. Founders does the same I believe. Founders has a dark one called Dirty Bastard that is good depending on your mood and what you pair it with That is one of the few main line beers I kinda like. I’ve been to a few beer sampling’s which is a fun way to try a lot of stuff. But most beers are pretty boring, which is why I gravitate toward the special releases.

But hey, we agree: if you like it drink it!

WookieMan says

I've been to Stone in Escondido about 6 years ago. I wouldn't call it bad for beers I've tried, but it was too hipster for me. They had food at the brewery and of course that's not what they do. But as someone that likes to cook and knows good food, it wasn't good. I do like Stone though.

That is actually one of my favorite places to eat. But we don't live close, so doesn't happen often. They have a duck pot pie right now that is really good. Didn't have a lot of good beers last time, I got something bottled. Karl Strauss Queen of Tarts, natural sour, really good.

WookieMan says

Packaging is probably 70-80% of the decision. 5% might be some rating and 5% might be a referral. The remain percentage is just fuck it I want to try something new.

Packaging can pull your eye to a beer, but I usually go by breweries I really like, and style. Prefer natural sours(no kettle), Belgium's, or anything where the ingredients catch my eye.

WookieMan says

I've yet to find a good meal in CA. I've had solid beers from there, but somehow food is lacking bigly.

I've lived in San Diego area for 20 years. Pizza Port is one of our favorite places, along with Dumpling Inn. Stone it depends on what you get, tacos no, but that pot pie, very good. Spice Lounge is outstanding(Indian Food). Sovereign Thai is a newer place we've tried that's also very good. George's at the Cove for a fancier place with a nice view, and really good reasonably priced food. Mexican is mostly shit, except Lucha Libre by Old Town, and Tuetano Taqueria is the most authentic to what you get in TJ.

PeopleUnited says

Founders does the same I believe.

Grand Rapids right? We went to the brewpub there, those guys go HEAVY on the alcohol. Not my favorite, but they had some decent stuff.

WookieMan says

I'm a supper club type person. Or dive bar feeling places.

The best bar in San Diego was Hamilton's. They closed down during scamdemic. Super divy, in the South Park neighborhood, so definitely had hipsters in attendance, but felt like your neighborhood bar. And by "your" I mean everyone's. Doesn't matter where you're from, what you do, you go there, and it feels like you're down the street from you house, wherever that may be. Closest thing to Cheers I've ever experienced.

Another great bar was Toronado. Lots of wood, big booths, felt like an East Coast bar. Another reason I won't miss San Diego, they've killed every great bar I ever liked, and the best BBQ in town.

Booger says

NuttBoxer says

I've lived in San Diego area for 20 years.

I might be out there in August/September. We'll see. Wife is going for sure for work, I just don't know if we're going to turn it into a family trip since the hotel costs can be written off. My dad had 3 cousins out there. One passed about 2 years after we last visited, pre-covid, was cancer. Still two left. Given their age I'd like to visit one more time and hit them up.

Might see if the wife is okay making it a no kid trip. She does work and I fuck around in CA for 5-6 days. Work involves drinking and entertaining 20 hours a day for her. Was looking to finally meet Patrick. I know it's a haul to the Bay Area but the wife won't need the car and I'm not sitting in a hotel room all day. Definitely would golf a couple times.

If it works out I'd be open to meeting up with any CA guys. I'll drive distances and grab a hotel. Warning though I'm nice, have a raspy shit voice, and can occasionally be an ass hole/smart ass. Drink copious amounts of beer, but haven't been in a fight since I was a kid. So not an angry drunk. If I meet up with anyone I'm a mega introvert in person. Unless drinking. I really do want to get out there. Last time was a layover in LAX which was gay.

NuttBoxer says

PeopleUnited says

Founders does the same I believe.

Grand Rapids right? We went to the brewpub there, those guys go HEAVY on the alcohol. Not my favorite, but they had some decent stuff.

Yes, Grand Rapids, though I’ve never been there, I find their stuff at better bottle shops. They probably are higher ABV than your standard brews, and I’m not a big drinker but I find the higher ABV tends to have more flavor. Lower ABV often tastes watery or lacks fullness. I have never been there but supposedly German beer, not the stuff that is imported but the local stuff, is also tending towards higher ABV as well.

Strong Belgian ales, Scottish Ales, and Porters and Stouts are usually what I look for, but I’ve had good beers in just about any style. You just never know until you try it, but again I mostly avoid the boring everyday stuff that are the main beers in everyone’s line up. It seems they just want something that is easy to pound and that’s not my thing.

WookieMan says

If it works out I'd be open to meeting up with any CA guys.

Ring me up when you are in town. There are a bazillion cool places and breweries in San Diego that are great for meeting up.

Sales only dropped 17% from the fiasco.

I wonder how many employees they are gonna have to let go.

https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2023/04/24/bud-boycott-slashes-sales-17-percent/

PeopleUnited says

I’m not a big drinker but I find the higher ABV tends to have more flavor. Lower ABV often tastes watery or lacks fullness

I think that's because the process to make those full bodied beers, that has color and richness, creates the alcohol content.

It's definitely NOT the alcohol. My Buddy drinks Bud Light Platinum, it has a much higher content than almost any other beer at the corner store display cooler. I call the shit "Wife Beater Beer". It taste like ass, I don't care for Budweiser or Bud Light, but that Platinum beer the alcohol makes it taste like you're drinking Hobo Armpit Sweat.

I saw a YouTube and the people called Bud Light "tranny fluid".