patrick.net

I read somewhere, " If you want to speak of the nature of God, the best thing you can do is shut your mouth." It's beyond our comprehension.

Bitcoiner says

How can you say this?

I didn’t say it. God did. Romans 8:28

Romans 8:28 does not say “bad things” don’t happen to good people. Don’t be obtuse. It does not say death, murder, sickness, rape, divorce or other injuries never happen to God fearing people. It says when trials come, God uses them to gain the ultimate victory, spiritual victory. It is not what happens to a person that defines them, it is how they respond to God that defines them. One should not dogmatically equate earthly trials with evidence of faithfulness, nor earthly success with evidence of righteousness. Death is not the end for the child of God, nor is earthly success evidence of faith.

Why do you care about Biblical estimates of how old the earth is? Probably only to question them just like Satan always does. So you have created the straw man of a young earth that most likely you will argue against. Congratulations on your straw man! I need not defend your silly straw man, because you know full well why you created it. And since you created it you own it. It is your straw man. What are you going to use it for? To discredit the Word of God? The word of God speaks for itself, it needs no defense. If you doubt that God created the world, or that Jesus can save you from the penalty of your sins, that is where the devil has you trapped. You’ll waste your time arguing with God. Eventually He will win the argument, or you will win your right to disagree with your Creator. The question is what do you want to be? A God fearing man, or a self made man (do you see the irony there). Either you will embrace your Creator, or reject Him and that choice, with its obvious consequences is yours.

personal

Let's see what those Atheists are up to... such as

Richard Dawkins says some rape is better than others: https://www.news.com.au/technology/online/social/richard-dawkins-sparks-twitter-storm-after-posting-some-rapes-are-worse-than-others/news-story/cfe7fb4a2f7e85eae953edea428a17e1

Dawkins, again. This time you should abort your fetus because he says its immoral: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/aug/21/richard-dawkins-immoral-not-to-abort-a-downs-syndrome-foetus

Lawrence Krauss defends Epstein and is accused of rape himself!

https://skepchick.org/2011/04/lawrence-krauss-defends-a-sex-offender-embarrasses-scientists-everywhere/

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/peteraldhous/lawrence-krauss-sexual-harassment-report

Good old Christopher Hitchens admits he lives for pleasure seeking degeneracy (and don't forget he was a huge proponent of the Iraq invasion!): https://dailycaller.com/2010/08/16/christopher-hitchens-to-charlie-rose-id-do-it-again/

Don't forget the millions killed during the Atheist Cultural Revolution and Bolshevik revolutions.

So these aren't just random Atheists picked off the street, or even minor clergy of Atheism. These are the top dogs of Atheism. If we are to judge a group by a few people, then clearly Atheism is the preminent system of rape and immorality on Earth right now.

Bitcoiner says

but with religion and all the BS that comes with religion

I'm trying to explain to you that your problem isn't religion, it is dogmatic psychopaths. You have a problem is psychopaths. We all do. The psychopath has no issue utilizing whatever tools available to gain power over others. Your tunnel vision doesn't allow you to see past religion and view the actual problem. I guarantee you you've met more good religious people than bad in your life. I disagree with many people on patnet, but I would never send their kids to die in war and I would imagine they wouldn't send mine either because we're not all crazy.

Except for you because you're seemingly uninterested in injustice that isn't based on religion. Fascinating.

Bitcoiner says

I can’t ever look at them the same way I did pre-Covid.

This is how I feel. I have a difficult time actually thinking of some people as "human" now. Smart intelligent people that I once respected, I now have absolutely no respect for. I can't trust their thinking and I don't even trust they think at this point.

I had a coworker insist I put on a mask because his wife was "immunocompromised". His wife wasn't at the office and I wasn't sick. My best from from college said this to me as well. My friend from college lives in Rochester, and my coworker is in Silicon Valley. I'm hearing the television through them.

They repeat what is on the television like its their own thoughts.

Bitcoiner says

But my hate for religion comes from the many people I’ve met who are religious and all act in a similar fashion.
....
A lot of people showed their true face during the crazy Covid times. I can’t ever look at them the same way I did pre-Covid.

It's clear you don't actually have an understanding of what I've told you because of your biases. You claimed that religions are, at their core, the reason for bad events, which is simply untrue once you understand how people really work. It's too bad trauma prevents people from growth.

Bitcoiner says

“I guarantee you you've met more good religious people than bad in your life.”

Disagree. I wish that was true. Have you?? Maybe you don’t know them well and they are “good” on the surface? Mormons are the nicest people on the outside. Just make sure you never go to one of their meetings. Yes, there are absolutely a few great people in my life that are Christians. But my hate for religion comes from the many people I’ve met who are religious and all act in a similar fashion.

Most religious people don't know their peers to be honest. You don't know what you don't know behind closed doors. Non-religious people get a glimpse into the world because the religious person is unsuspecting. Basically we won't tell it to the congregation so we get to see things that other members of the church won't see.

I've seen plenty of "religious" people act unruly and outright unlawful. That said as a non-religious person I don't care. Guess what "god" doesn't either. If you want to be "gods" robot go ahead and live your life that way. It's not fun at all. IF "god" put me on this earth it was to have fun. Meet people. Help people when and where I can. It's not complicated. I don't need a thick book with a bunch of shit it in it.

Religion has and always will be a manipulation tool. Go to the south side of Chicago where there's a high probability of getting shot going to church. Religion seems to be working super well there as the pastor rolls up in a $70k car to a dilapidated church storefront. I've walked people through some of these churches for sale in Chicago. Your religion is not what you think it is.

I hope religious people do realize it's probably the number 1 money laundering technique as well. If we taxed churches the same as business, watch membership plummet. Don't hate the messenger, but this is fact. Read up on tax laws and how churches operate. You'll have a different perspective. Freedom of state and religion was a back door to funnel illicit gains. Hell the Catholic church is one of the worlds largest owner of valuable real estate. It's also a business: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/vatican-reveals-property-holdings-first-time-transparency-drive-2021-07-24/

Bitcoiner says

>Gaslight - turn it around on the one asking questions ( “satan, ill-intended, straw man, …”) to manipulate and distract.
>Fear-mongering - “it’s a sin, punishment will come, ….”
>generic answer - “(…) is above your understanding, (…) punishes sinners, it’s (…) word”
>Blame the victim - “maybe you didn’t pray enough. You must have sin in your life”

Happy Independence Day Bitcoiner.

It is my hope for you, and Gods desire, that when He reaches out to you, that you respond. If He has not reached out to you, He will. Your response at that time is what will determine who you are. Not what I say, not what anyone else who accuses or fear mongers, but how you respond to God is what you are.
Acts 17 :27
God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us.

Bitcoiner says

Since Covid my life got a lot easier because my circle of relatives got A LOT SMALLER. Fuck em. Burn in hell :)

It's worse for me. I literally am having a difficult time seeing some people as human. I know NPC is a joke, and I don't think I'm in a computer simulation, or that I'm talking to computer character - however, what I am talking to is more robot than human.

These "people" believed that a 99.9% survival rate was a "pandemic" and they were about to die, they believed a disposable mask was printed on the packet "will not prevent airborne viruses" would prevent airborne viruses, they got vaccinated got covid and then told me "Well, that covid was awful, I'm going to get a booster so I don't have THAT again".

NOW I understand why people think we "must support Ukraine". NOW I understand why people believe Hussein had a weapons of mass destruction program. NOW I understand why they believe "inflation is good", NOW I understand why they think it's fine to have a spy device like Alexa or Google Home in their home.

It's because they can't think at all. It's not that they don't think, although they don't, they are incapable of it.

If the media and the government say "white nationalists are the greatest threat to the United States", I laugh at this, but they believe it. No matter how ridiculous the claim is, they will accept it. Trans-women are women. You must support gender-affirming care for 7 year old children or they will die. Better get that HPV vaccine for your BABY. Toxic Sludge is good for you.

They believe THIS:



https://foodfix.co/wait-did-we-get-a-new-food-pyramid/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11110767/Why-Cheerios-better-coffee-breakfast-new-study-claims.html

I completely understand the intense DISDAIN that the ruling class has for "people" and it's made me tempted to go to the dark side, which I was once absolutely certain I would never, could never, possibly do. How is it possible to respect these people around me?

1 out of 10 people I know personally can think and it's surprising who CAN think, and who CAN'T - it's not any of my colleagues..

They are cattle. The really, actually are cattle. I don't think they are sentient, I literally don't think they are sentient.

The government has done to me what I thought never could be done. It has dehumanized the majority of the population to me.

Wookieman, you are not wrong about corrupt churches and hypocrites, including the Church of Rome. I’m glad you are having fun on this earth. I am as well, but I also look forward to eternity which will be free of hypocrites, free of suffering. It is what we were created for, not this world, but the eternal realm.

Bitcoiner says

scholars looked

Cuz that's what scholars do.

Bitcoiner says

I stay away from religion

Do you still believe in bitcoin, COVID-19, the vax, and the big bang?

Not expecting a cogent answer?

richwicks says

The government has done to me what I thought never could be done. It has dehumanized the majority of the population to me.

This is the result of lies. People believe lies, and are corrupted. But they (some of them) can still be redeemed. They are victims, to be pitied. That is what humans are, people who need a savior.

Onvacation says

Do you still believe in .... the big bang?

Not your question to me, but I give it a possibility of being true although I know many of the problems with the theory. Could be there are localized big bangs, happening all the time.

Super weird to think that anything exists at all. That does make me contemplate if existence isn't eternal, what a nightmare THAT would be.

Bitcoiner says

Since Covid my life got a lot easier because my circle of relatives got A LOT SMALLER. Fuck em. Burn in hell :)

Thought you got the shot?
Must have been some other bitcoin true believer.

So you believe in hell? Or just being facetious?

PeopleUnited says

This is the result of lies. People believe lies, and are corrupted. But they (some of them) can still be redeemed. They are victims, to be pitied. That is what humans are, people who need a savior.

No offense to you, and I don't want to argue this, because I'm done with that 10 years ago before I met you.

I put religious faith into the same basket as government faith. To me, they are the same. I don't have faith, I can't have faith, I'm incapable of it. I'm not precisely an atheist, but I do not believe any religion is correct, or even close to being correct. I believe Christianity is just as real and factual as Roman mythology.

I do not want to argue about the contradictions of the Bible, the supposed "you just don't understand it, it means THIS" type of arguments. For one example, Job is a faithful believer in God and so Satan makes a bet, and God takes away everything from him, tortured him, just to test him. What's the lesson? The lesson I get from it, is God is one sadistic fuck and there is no reward in faith. This is a logical conclusion, I'm not being irrational, I'm not misunderstanding it or misinterpreting it - I'm not trying to fit a narrative around my conclusion, I have my conclusion because I have my conclusion based on what God supposedly did to Job.

The more I learned about the Bible, the less faith I had, until I had none, looked at other religions, wore off very quickly, became a materialist atheist for a long time, and now I'm coming in on "well, how does matter even exist?" and "How is it we can't make a thinking machine, if we're just meat robots?". There's more data capacity in my computer than there is in my brain. It SHOULD be able to have the capacity to "think". Really, it should, you'd need to code it, maybe run evolutionary algorithms through it for a long long time, maybe it would be VERY SLOW in doing it, but it certainly has more storage than my brain does.

And we see these clever AI programs. They can answer questions given information, but they can't be creative at all. IF they could be creative, they wouldn't make them public, they would keep them secret, and put them to work inventing a bunch of new things. They are clearly not alive nor sentient. At least not yet.

PeopleUnited says

I am as well, but I also look forward to eternity

What is your interpretation of the passage, "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."

It always confused me because I love my life. Do you have to hate life to go to heaven?

Onvacation says

Thought you got the shot?
Must have been some other bitcoin true believer.

That was @Bitcoin -

https://patrick.net/post/2/2005-04-12-thread-for-orphaned-comments?start=115858#comment-1837337

I seriously think it's possible he's dead. I've pinged him several times asking about his state of health but he may have dropped off the face of the planet after bitcoin collapsed from 70,000 to whatever, 12 was it?

Bitcoiner says

Onvacation says

Bitcoiner says

I stay away from religion

Do you still believe in bitcoin, COVID-19, the vax, and the big bang?

Not expecting a cogent answer?

And not disappointed.

richwicks says

I seriously think it's possible he's dead.

They posted pretty consistently for two years then poof. He did say he'd let you know about his booster. You don't think he forgot his internet promise, do you?

Onvacation says

What is your interpretation of the passage, "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."

Oh my god! That means I'm going to have eternal life! And that would be hell to me. Wow, god is a fucking bastard. :)

DhammaStep says

richwicks says

I seriously think it's possible he's dead.

They posted pretty consistently for two years then poof. He did say he'd let you know about his booster. You don't think he forgot his internet promise, do you?

I think he was probably paid by a company to boost investment in bitcoin. He might just be done.

Common thing for people to promote an investment until they are "done" doing it. I think that is more probable.

richwicks says

The lesson I get from it, is God is one sadistic fuck and there is no reward in faith. This is a logical conclusion, I'm not being irrational, I'm not misunderstanding it or misinterpreting it - I'm not trying to fit a narrative around my conclusion, I have my conclusion because I have my conclusion based on what God supposedly did to Job.

How is your conclusion be based on logic? Are you saying you believe God repayed Job’s faith with evil?

richwicks says

There's more data capacity in my computer than there is in my brain.

Some have estimated that the smartest most capable among us still only use 10% at best of the capacity of their brain.

PeopleUnited says

richwicks says

There's more data capacity in my computer than there is in my brain.

Some have estimated that the smartest most capable among us still only use 10% at best of the capacity of their brain.

It's a myth. We use all of it, we just don't use all of it all the time. Out body doesn't waste energy maintaining cells it doesn't use. We use every cell in our body, including fat.

Bitcoiner says

And when you find GOD I hope he can show you he is not that guy that threatens you with hell and calls you satan just because you put a genealogical timeline together based on what is written in the Bible. I don’t believe for a second that a god so powerful to create the earth and all of us can’t handle a question about the age of the earth. I rather think he wants us to ask and think instead of blindly follow.

I find God everywhere I look. And He most certainly warns (not threatens, there is a huge difference) every man to escape the judgement to come, by turning Away from their sin and Towards Jesus as their savior.

Don’t be so sensitive, nobody said you were Satan. But Satan does discredit and question Gods word. If you want to talk about genealogy that might be interesting. If you want to talk about the age of the earth, my question is why? Does the age of the earth change with our discussion? Does the age of the earth change what you think about God?

Are you a follower of God?

PeopleUnited says

richwicks says

The lesson I get from it, is God is one sadistic fuck and there is no reward in faith. This is a logical conclusion, I'm not being irrational, I'm not misunderstanding it or misinterpreting it - I'm not trying to fit a narrative around my conclusion, I have my conclusion because I have my conclusion based on what God supposedly did to Job.

How is your conclusion be based on logic? Are you saying you believe God repayed Job’s faith with evil?

I'm saying that I think of Christianity as a mythology.

I think I've told you many times, if there is a god, it's innate in all of us, and we don't need a book to know it - we know it instinctively.

All living things would know this.. entity - it would be born knowing it. If I had a gun pointed to my head with somebody demanding that I declare my religion, I would declare pantheism, or perhaps atheism and have my brains blown out.

I cannot deny there's a real existence of "evil" at this point, but I cannot say with any confidence this is a supernatural force. It may be emergent in any species or a conceptual construct of mankind. Is it evil for a cat to play with, and torture, a mouse before it kills it to eat it? It would be evil for a human being to torture a lamb before it kills it to eat it.

With the cat and mouse, I can forgive the cat, with a human being and a lamb, I consider that "person" a monster - and I would NOT forgive IT. I'm a lot more judgmental when it comes to so-called "human beings".

I have a neighbor that said his grandfather would take a chicken, and dunk it into boiling water, because when it was killed this way, it was easier to remove the feathers, when I expressed shocked he responded "well, it's just an animal". Well, perhaps, but it can still experience agony. "Well, it's just an animal." I do question his humanity just because of this, certainly he lacks compassion and/or empathy.

richwicks says

PeopleUnited says

richwicks says

There's more data capacity in my computer than there is in my brain.

Some have estimated that the smartest most capable among us still only use 10% at best of the capacity of their brain.

It's a myth. We use all of it, we just don't use all of it all the time. Out body doesn't waste energy maintaining cells it doesn't use. We use every cell in our body, including fat.

Don’t be obtuse. Here is the example: a body builder maximizes (or seeks to) their muscle power.
Similarly we can work to maximize our intellectual power. But they estimate that even those who seek to maximize their intellectual power still never tap the majority of their biological potential.

It’s not a myth, but it is an estimate. For example, people before the flood had longer lives, it would stand to reason they had increased ability to access and utilize their brains than we do today.

PeopleUnited says

For example, people before the flood had longer lives, it would stand to reason

There was no flood. This is a myth.

I do not want to argue your religion. If we go down that path, I'll either completely alienate you, or I'll turn you into an atheist like me. This advantages neither of us. You cannot change my mind about this. I didn't decide to become an atheist one day and find ways to justify it, I started as a Christian and as I learned more and more and more about natural science, it was stripped from me.

I didn't become an atheist because it was "the cool hip thing to do". It's an inescapable conclusion for me and if you continue to press on this, I will be forced to explain why, in inescapable completely logical detail. I want to drop this.

richwicks says

The lesson I get from it, is God is one sadistic fuck and there is no reward in faith. This is a logical conclusion, I'm not being irrational, I'm not misunderstanding it or misinterpreting it - I'm not trying to fit a narrative around my conclusion, I have my conclusion because I have my conclusion based on what God supposedly did to Job.

How is your conclusion be based on logic? Are you saying you believe God repayed Job’s faith with evil?

I'm saying that I think of Christianity as a mythology.

So exercising “logic” you accuse the God that you call mythological of not rewarding faith and essentially label this god that you claim does not exist as a psychopath. I fail to see the logic in this. It seems more like you are making up justification to ignore Gods word.

richwicks says

I want to drop this.

That’s fine. But I think I know what your problem is, someone once gave you the advice to reject any idea that causes “cognitive dissonance.” What if science and God are compatible?

PeopleUnited says

That’s fine. But I think I know what your problem is, someone once gave you the advice to reject any idea that causes “cognitive dissonance.” What if science and God are compatible?

They aren't, but your conception of god, is incompatible with science.

I keep telling you, if there's a god, it's innate within all living things. I'm sure you've had a pet, you MUST have realized it could think and feel, had emotion, affection, hatred, and endured pain. You must have, if you had a pet. If you've had a pet and never realized this, that's incomprehensible to me. A COW can experience this, a crow or a mouse can.

You could argue they aren't sentient, and I've said I no longer consider more than 1/2 of humanity sentient. That doesn't mean I don't think they have a soul, if such a thing exists, I just don't consider them sentient.

I'm being entirely honest with you. I'm not exaggerating, I'm certainly not boasting. This is a huge disappointment to me, it's a crushing disappointment as it took me so long to recognize it although I've long suspected it.

The more I learn, the more warped I become. I wanted to know, long ago, now I do, and now I'm on an unmarked trail. I'm OK with that.

Bitcoiner says

Richwicks,
I can relate to a lot of what you say about religion and Bible.
“There was no flood. This is a myth.” I never really looked into this. Do you mind elaborating on “there was no flood”. Curious what you found.
Thanks

A literal world-wide flood is just impossible - 40 days and 40 nights wasn't it? 2 and 7 animals of "each kind"? We'd see this in genetics - every species would be like the cheetah, which are all practically clones of one another - they had an evolutionary bottleneck somewhere and they are INCREDIBLY inbred - you can transplant skin from one to another - no problem.

Graham Hancock thinks there may have been a comet strike that caused a massive flood, but even that wouldn't have been worldwide, but could possibly be an echo of the event. He might just be a nut, but it's a fun and enjoyable conspiracy theory. Basically, he claims (with soem convincing charts, but how do you verify them?) that there was a comet strike during an ice age that destroyed an advanced civilization - not advanced like we currently are, but advanced, as it had been a worldwide civilization. It's a compelling tale.

richwicks says

your conception of god, is incompatible with science.

What is my conception of God?

richwicks says

A literal world-wide flood

https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/bryan-osborne/2016/06/17/rock-layers-evidence-millions-years-or-global-flood/

PeopleUnited says

richwicks says

your conception of god, is incompatible with science.

What is my conception of God?

You're Christian.

Doesn't this mean you believe that Jesus was literally the son of god from a virgin birth that performed miracles?

My concept of this is that he was an amalgam of several legends, one being Hercules.

The story of the Great Flood is very similar to the story of Gilgamesh.

The Jewish religion appears to be an offshoot of the Babylonian religion, where they took the God of War as their one and only god, Jehovah. Judaism was founded in 700 BC or so. There was no exodus, there was no King David. It's all myth. We have records from this time. NOBODY in Rome or Egypt or Greece recorded a Jewish state - even THAT is a myth - Israel never existed, at least it didn't 2000 years ago.

I see no point in challenging your religion. At one point, I saw religion as a "great evil", well, maybe it is, but the government is far worse and I now see it as a balancing force against that. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that...

PeopleUnited says

richwicks says

A literal world-wide flood

https://answersingenesis.org/blogs/bryan-osborne/2016/06/17/rock-layers-evidence-millions-years-or-global-flood/

FINE! Want a mind bender?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw5oEeJdHNg

Their hypothesis, if you can even call it that, is like 100 thousand years ago and the Biblical flood is an echo of that event.

I do NOT WANT TO ARGUE against your religion. It's tedious, and it's not productive. When I lost my religion, it left me aimless for a long time. 15 years ago, I would have relished doing that to you, but not today. It doesn't help you, and your religion is a bulwark against government abuse. Neither of us comes out ahead if I change your mind and I guarantee with certainty you can't change my mind back.

Onvacation says

"He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."

Love and hate are making a distinction between those that want to retain selfish motives, vs those that will pursue Gods will (namely repentance and turning from their own selfishness and turning toward God). Hating life, just means hating the sin that abounds in the world and even Christians sin more than they want to.

PeopleUnited says

richwicks says

your conception of god, is incompatible with science.

What is my conception of God?

@richwicks did answer pretty much.
Try to understand that the people who believe in God, DO have conclusions for everything related to god and trying to find the facts to support the conclusions. Where as rational/atheist people look at the data, facts and come to conclusions.
Perhaps its hard for you to understand that its a one way path to become atheist.
When it comes to morality, atheist are much more nice compare to religious people.
I'd suggest do not waste your time to convince rational people to believe God stuff.
Do not feel guilty that you are not able to convince either, just be happy for your self.