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The War In Ukraine Is Far More Bloody Than We Realize


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2022 Dec 27, 3:55am   2,113 views  32 comments

by ohomen171   ➕follow (2)   💰tip   ignore  

#ukrainewardeadandwounded I am proud to be a lifetime member of the U.S. Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW). To earn membership, one must have served honorably in the US armed services and been present in a war zone for at least 91 days. Their latest member magazine published some authoritative statistics on the Vietnam war that I wish to share with you now:
1) 9,087,000 served on active duty from 1964 to 1973.
2) 8,744,000 were on active duty from August 5, 1964, to March 28, 1973.
3) 3,403,100 men and women including 514,300 offshore personnel served in Vietnam.
4) 2,594,000 men and women served within the border of Vietnam from January 1, 1965, to March 28, 1973. 50,000 US troops served in Vietnam from 1960 to 1964.
5) Total deaths were 58,275. 47,528 men and women died due to hostile action. 10,747 died due to non-hostile actions.
6) 303,704 were wounded. 153,329 required hospitalizations.
7) 75,000 were severely disabled. 23,214 were 100% disabled. 5,283 lost limbs. 1,081 sustained multiple amputations. These disability figures were much higher than in World War II or Korea.
8) The kill rate percentage was 58,275/3,403,100=1.712%. 58,275/2,594,000=2.246%.
9) The wounded rate was 303,704/3,403,100=8.92%.
303,704/2,594,000=11.707%.
Combined statistics for dead and wounded:
58,275+303,704=361,979/3,403.100=10.63% 303,704/2,594,000=11.707%
361,979/2,594,000=13,954% This is not consistent with a model of 5% killed and wounded. There are 5.2 wounded for each man or woman killed. Please bear in mind that during this same time span some 3.25 million Vietnamese military personnel and civilians were killed. Accurate statistics on those wounded are hard to come by.
Now let us go forward to the current war in Ukraine. Accurate statistics on military killed and wounded in battle are hard to come by. Even elite US and European intelligence agencies have a difficult time getting accurate numbers. One of our readers, Denys Davydov spends a lot of time doing in-depth research to develop numbers. He goes to all sorts of obscure sources to get information. A picture emerges as follows:

Ukraine armed forces size: 204,000. Deaths for the last 10 months are roughly 100,000.

Russian military personnel in Ukraine: 200,000. Deaths for the last 10 months are roughly 100,000.

Casualties on both sides could range from 300,000 to 520,000. Massive replacements had to be found to take the place of those lost.

These losses are like those suffered during the Iran/Iraq war during the late 1980s and World War I.

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2   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2022 Dec 27, 1:55pm  

I remember when VFW clubs were exclusive to combat vets and their guests. You couldn't just go strolling into a VFW and order a drink, they would throw you out.
Now civilian walk-in traffic is their biggest patronage.
3   richwicks   2022 Dec 27, 2:00pm  

@ohomen171 - respond to people that respond to you, or stop posting.

I regard you as noise because you don't engage. It's like talking to some asshole at the NY Times that just thinks people want to hear them, and won't listen to anybody.

You're like a boomer aren't you? Around 70 or so I would bet? I'm in X, I'm 51. Many people in my age group, and many more below, do not want to listen to people who won't do the same. You have to engage or people just will ignore you.
4   ohomen171   2022 Dec 27, 2:10pm  

Rich Wicks, I do respond and appreciate input from readers. The Vietnam statistics are 100% solid and originate with the US Army. Ukraine and Russian deaths and casualties are mysteries. I am not sure that Putin and Selenskyy know the true figures. I rely on Denys Davdov whom I have known for a long time. He is an airline pilot by profession in Ukraine. When the war started, he lost his airline job. The Ukraine Air Force declined him because he had no military experience. He reinvented himself as a podcaster reporting on Ukraine. You can find him on YouTube. Denys has over 500,000 subscribers, by the way. He spends his whole working day pouring through hundreds of Russian and Ukraine websites. He got the Russian KIA figure going through a backdoor. Someone in the Russian equivalent of our Department of Treasury got sloppy and released details on payments made to the families of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine. Denys does some brilliant research. In my writing career, I have been sucked in by fake news. I bend over backward to avoid another mistake like this. I trust a few sources without question
5   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Dec 27, 2:49pm  

ohomen171 says

Rich Wicks, I do respond and appreciate input from readers. The Vietnam statistics are 100% solid and originate with the US Army. Ukraine and Russian deaths and casualties are mysteries. I am not sure that Putin and Selenskyy know the true figures. I rely on Denys Davdov whom I have known for a long time. He is an airline pilot by profession in Ukraine. When the war started, he lost his airline job. The Ukraine Air Force declined him because he had no military experience. He reinvented himself as a podcaster reporting on Ukraine. You can find him on YouTube. Denys has over 500,000 subscribers, by the way. He spends his whole working day pouring through hundreds of Russian and Ukraine websites. He got the Russian KIA figure going through a backdoor. Someone in the Russian equivalent of our Department of Treasury got sloppy and released details on payments made to the families of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine. Denys does some brilliant research. In my writing career...


bloody war man, very bloody. and our government keeps encouraging it more and more, we fund it well. now i know how vietnam war protesters felt. they too were against a war and yet government didn’t care. life is gonna turn me into a government hating hippie one day if im not one yet.
6   richwicks   2022 Dec 27, 3:04pm  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

bloody war man, very bloody. and our government keeps encouraging it more and more, we fund it well. now i know how vietnam war protesters felt. they too were against a war and yet government didn’t care. life is gonna turn me into a government hating hippie one day if im not one yet.


The boomer generation protested stupid wars when they were drafted, and the cheered on the stupid wars or Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya.

I once thought they had solid principles. They don't. We've been in 20 fucking solid years of war and now these same people are cheering on the Ukraine war, which very well may lead to World War 3. They're insane.
7   richwicks   2022 Dec 27, 3:12pm  

richwicks says

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says


bloody war man, very bloody. and our government keeps encouraging it more and more, we fund it well. now i know how vietnam war protesters felt. they too were against a war and yet government didn’t care. life is gonna turn me into a government hating hippie one day if im not one yet.


The boomer generation protested stupid wars when they were drafted, and the cheered on the stupid wars or Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya.

I once thought they had solid principles. They don't. We've been in 20 fucking solid years of war and now these same people are cheering on the Ukraine war, which very well may lead to World War 3. They're insane.


Look, Russia CLAIMS that Ukraine being taken over by the west is an "existential threat".

If this is true, if Russia is actually threatened by this, they can simply drop a nuclear weapon on Kiev, and that's the end of it. As far as I can see, provided Russia is telling the truth, is that IF this is a life and death situation for them, they can trivially win the war.

That's the actual situation. IF Russia wants to win this war at all costs, they will. They are simply playing with kid gloves at this point.

Now that's just me working with what governments say, claim, and they lie all the time. However, I know my government lies endlessly and they use children like Bana al-Abed, to fictional fighter pilots like the "Ghost of Kyiv" to promote bullshit. I wouldn't put too much faith in "Denys Davdov" unless you have known him personally, and before 2014.
8   Al_Sharpton_for_President   2022 Dec 27, 3:14pm  

richwicks says

The boomer generation protested stupid wars when they were drafted

Don't draft you, don't draft me. Draft that illegal alien behind the tree.
9   Ceffer   2022 Dec 27, 4:04pm  

Takes about two seconds to see that Denys Davdov is the CNN of Ukraine, pure propaganda organ. Try "The Duran" on for size, much more balanced and reliable commentary.
10   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Dec 27, 4:17pm  

richwicks says

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says


bloody war man, very bloody. and our government keeps encouraging it more and more, we fund it well. now i know how vietnam war protesters felt. they too were against a war and yet government didn’t care. life is gonna turn me into a government hating hippie one day if im not one yet.


The boomer generation protested stupid wars when they were drafted, and the cheered on the stupid wars or Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya.

I once thought they had solid principles. They don't. We've been in 20 fucking solid years of war and now these same people are cheering on the Ukraine war, which very well may lead to World War 3. They're insane.


they arent bad man, its just media is a great manipulator
11   Onvacation   2022 Dec 27, 5:23pm  

richwicks says

The boomer generation protested stupid wars when they were drafted, and the cheered on the stupid wars or Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya

Your generalizing based on an age range.
12   Shaman   2022 Dec 27, 5:40pm  

I suppose it’s too much to hope that the OP changed his mind about supporting and promoting this awful war when he considered the extreme toll on human life.
Changing who sits at the top of a fascist dictatorship shouldn’t have to cost 200,000 human lives.
Personally, I would rather line up Zelenskyy and his whole family and shoot them if that would bring peace again. Putin is no worse than that asshole with his own war crimes and crimes against humanity. Why should we care which dictator rules in an Eastern European country halfway across the world?
13   richwicks   2022 Dec 27, 11:50pm  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

they arent bad man, its just media is a great manipulator


In 1975 there was the Church Committee. That revealed the existence of Operation Mockingbird. The Pentagon Papers came out in 1971 - that proved the Gulf of Tonkin Incidence never happened and that the nation was lied into the Vietnam War.

This is the generation who once said "don't trust anybody over 30", and they are by far, the absolutely most gullible generation ever, and they have no excuse.


My parents are from the Silent Generation - they know all this, why is the Boomer generation so FUCKING oblivious, when by all means, they should know better and best?

They are the ones that broke into the FBI and revealed 1/2 of this shit.

So goddamned frustrating that it falls on X and Y to fix the fucking government, while the boomers "can't see anything is wrong? What are you talking about???".

It's the do nothing generation.
14   richwicks   2022 Dec 27, 11:54pm  

Onvacation says

richwicks says


The boomer generation protested stupid wars when they were drafted, and the cheered on the stupid wars or Iraq, Afghanistan, Iraq again, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Libya

Your generalizing based on an age range.


Yes, I know I am.

The younger a person I talk to, the MORE they know what is going on, and it should be the opposite.

Julian Assange is in my generation. He's 1 month younger than I am. Edward Snowden is Generation Y, he was born in 1983. Name somebody similar in the boomer generation? Perhaps Gary Webb, murdered and forgotten.
15   Misc   2022 Dec 28, 12:11am  

He did respond this time.
16   Onvacation   2022 Dec 28, 6:18am  

richwicks says

Onvacation says

Your generalizing based on an age range.

Yes, I know I am.

That's called prejudice.

Call them as you see them. Don't prejudge based on race, color, creed, or age.
17   Shaman   2022 Dec 28, 6:20am  

It’s a rare Boomer who can see what’s really going on. 90% of them are just cheerleaders for their red or blue team and have no clue, and believe whatever Fox or MSNBC tells them to believe.
It’s really fucking pathetic.
18   richwicks   2022 Dec 28, 6:27am  

Onvacation says


That's called prejudice.


It's not prejudice to notice patterns. Stereotypes exist not because they are entirely untrue and completely divorced from reality.

It would be prejudice if I took the attributes of a group and applied it to individuals uncritically. I can't assume that person A has attribute X just because that person is in group Y that commonly has those attributes.

I'm not being personal when I say that the boomer generation has really dropped the ball. They have. We have a hell of a mess to cleanup as a result, and I'm not certain we can clean it up. I knew the country needed serious reform 20 years ago, but in the last 6 years, I've learned just how fucked up it is, and the boomers are largely silent about it and complacent about it.

I don't know why. JFK was murdered by our intelligence agencies - it's obvious now. The intelligence agencies are DIRECTLY interfering with free speech, they're largely silent about it. It's maddening their indifference.
19   RayAmerica   2022 Dec 28, 7:08am  

All 'generations' have been dumbed down, to an incredible extent. As a consequence, their thoughts and actions are being controlled. As long as they are part of the 'crowd,' and not an outsider, they seem perfectly happy. Even the arts, including 'music,' which most of it isn't even, is fed to them by those that wish to control everything. The mainstream ministry of propaganda, along with academia, provide the icing on their delusional cake. Life itself is defined by our masters. Sports has become the new
religion for many, whereby grown adults are rendered into a lengthy state of emotional depression if THEIR ('my team') loses. (Side bar; I have a highly educated brother in law that is one of the stupidest people I have ever known. For one, he lives and dies for his sports teams. One day, I asked him, if your baseball 'team' won the world series, how exactly would your life be better? He couldn't provide an answer. The question must have bothered him, because an entire year went by when, at a family gathering, he said: "I've been thinking about that question, and I can't honestly say that my life would improve." I guess there is a glimmer of hope, but I have my doubts.)

Many Americans are too worried about making their payments to their slave masters, who have cleverly maneuvered just about everyone into a lifestyle of 'enjoy now, pay later,' all at exorbitant interest rates.

By the way, which 'generation' does this represent?

Gender Identity: Can a 5'9, White Guy Be a 6'5, Chinese Woman?

Short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho

And 'richwicks' actually thinks that this 'generation' will have the fortitude to 'fix the ... government?' Really?
21   richwicks   2022 Dec 28, 7:42am  

RayAmerica says

By the way, which 'generation' does this represent?

Gender Identity: Can a 5'9, White Guy Be a 6'5, Chinese Woman?

Short video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho

And 'richwicks' actually thinks that this 'generation' will have the fortitude to 'fix the ... government?' Really?


Do you think the average millennial gives a shit about this gender identity, CRT, BS?

Talk to a few. It's an ancient trick, to either cherry pick responses, or to just outright fake them.

All this BS is coming from the top down, NOT the bottom up. Every kid is a moron, that's ALWAYS been true, talk to somebody who is 30.

Television viewership is in decline. That's the propaganda box. People try to escape it, and fall into Twitter, Youtube, and Facebook but people figure it out quickly, longer than I would have hoped, but they are figuring it out.

Don't confuse what you see on a screen as a reflection of reality. All corporate products are designed to influence people, not to educate them or inform them. It's been this way for a LOOOOONG time, probably my entire lifetime, but finally, people are figuring it out.

I would say fully 50% of the population recognizes that our propaganda is propaganda, and not information. I would say less than 5% of people recognized that 20 years ago - so of course, there's progress. Censorship is not a sign of strength, it's a sign of weakness. What used to be clandestine censorship is now overt and out in the open. The more "the powers that be" scream, they weaker they are.

20 years ago I could post ANYWHERE and say "George W. Bush lied us into the Iraq War, the Downing Street memos prove it, and the FBI knew about but did not prevent the bombing of the WTC in 1993 - Emad Salem has proved that" - and I wouldn't be censored because nobody would care what some asshole on the Internet said. It just didn't matter, but today, "news" organizations don't even dare to have a commenting area, all the major tech companies are ceaselessly policed to remove "misinformation" - you can lose your ability to talk at all if you're over target.

It's not the boomers that are challenging the system either. It's my generation and younger. Kids don't use Facebook, and they don't bother with Twitter. Ever seen 4chan? People don't like being controlled, but the boomer generation seems resigned to it.
22   Onvacation   2022 Dec 28, 9:28am  

richwicks says

the boomer generation has really dropped the ball

But they're not half as bad as the X and Y generation. Don't get me started with the millennials.
23   FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden   2022 Dec 28, 9:55am  

Ceffer says



https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/12/retired-usmc-colonel-andy-milburn-surprisingly-tells-truth-ukraine/


@richwicks its funny andrew millburn is on linkedin advertising their war services in Ukraine. clearly has enough time for internet.
24   richwicks   2022 Dec 28, 9:56am  

Onvacation says


richwicks says


the boomer generation has really dropped the ball

But they're not half as bad as the X and Y generation. Don't get me started with the millennials.



Every generation has some awful people in them but I have much more hope with the younger generations than the older one.

Many in the younger generations KNOW their government uses propaganda, KNOWS that their "news" media is garbage, KNOWS that there's a two tiered system. Hardly any boomer does, or at least will admit to it. At least they recognize the glaring problem, no boomer helped me see these problems - silent generation helped a bit though. I got my start in real knowledge by my aunt - she's 80 now. She is the one to blame for getting me interested in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. She was the one that didn't just tell me that what was being reported in our media was misleading if not outright false, she PROVED it to me.

It was very disorienting for some time to realize we really had straight up propaganda in 1992 about ONE issue, but it's ALL issues. Took me another 8 years to figure that out.

If tried to discuss this with somebody that was slightly older than me, say 20-30 years older than me, I was just dismissed as crazy, and was frequently told that. I could talk to somebody that was 40 years older about it though. The boomers weren't interested in data, they openly dumped on my opinion, I wasn't treated well at all by them, even though I was correct. You have any idea how frustrating it was to KNOW that binLaden couldn't have worked with Saddam Hussein, and have people just write you off as crazy time and time again? Meanwhile, we were being lied into a war in Iraq, a war that should have never happened.

It's however, quite easy to talk to MANY in my generation about this now, and the younger generation is even more keyed in than mine ever was. It's encouraging. Our worst problem this nation has had, is delusion. You can't make good choices if you have bad information. It's garbage in - garbage out.

I ALMOST think that there's sabotage going in to our "news" agencies right now. How much do they have to fuck up with "errors" before people realize it's just BS?

I mean: look at this shit:


original link

Here is the original video on youtube, view the comments, and keep in mind, youtube has censorship on comments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x0l6rSAtrM
25   richwicks   2022 Dec 28, 10:49am  

FortwayeAsFuckJoeBiden says

richwicks its funny andrew millburn is on linkedin advertising their war services in Ukraine. clearly has enough time for internet.

It's kind of fucked up that LinkedIn has mercenaries listing their rescume.
26   Onvacation   2022 Dec 28, 10:52am  

richwicks says

I have much more hope with the younger generations than the older one.

Me too.

They have more years left.
27   Onvacation   2022 Dec 28, 10:53am  

richwicks says

I got my start in real knowledge by my aunt - she's 80 now

Boomer?
28   richwicks   2022 Dec 28, 10:59am  

Onvacation says


richwicks says


I got my start in real knowledge by my aunt - she's 80 now

Boomer?



No, she's from the Silent Generation. She was a little girl when WWII was raging.

She's kind of lost it now, she's now an MSNBC addict. I suppose it will happen to me as well, if I live long enough.

You know what I think the break was? Television. When my aunt and parents were little kids, television simply didn't exist - not really. Television took off in the 1950's, and by the 1960's it was a major medium. People who avoided that in their formative years, stayed sane.

When I was a kid in my teens, my parents made a bet with me that I couldn't stop watching television for a year so I took them up on it. I actually lost the bet and only got 6 months into it, but having been away from it so long, I really didn't enjoy it when I started watching it again. By the time I hit college I didn't have time for it anyhow, and when I got out of college, I developed a hatred for it. When Fox news started lying constantly to start the Iraq War I really really developed a true hatred for it although I laughed along with friends watching the Daily Show which made its mark just making fun of all the "news" media during that time.

I detest the goddamned propaganda box. I'm even beginning to hate "films" and I was a huge film buff for a long long time. Now I can hardly sit through one.
29   AmericanKulak   2022 Dec 28, 11:24am  

richwicks says


By the time I hit college I didn't have time for it anyhow,

Yep, sounds like my experience.

I slowly stopped watching TV in HS, and by College I didn't watch at all, just movies on VHS once in a while. Movies in the movie theater too, if I think about it I could probably list every movie I watched since around 1995, maybe a dozen, and half of them were on dates. I haven't darkened the door of a theater in about a decade AT ALL.

The last movie I saw in the theater was Stone's movie about the Cuban Missile Crisis, Thirteen Days
30   richwicks   2022 Dec 28, 11:37am  

AmericanKulak says

The last movie I saw in the theater was Stone's movie about the Cuban Missile Crisis, Thirteen Days


The last film I saw was Mad Max: Fury Road - it was... OK.

Now if I have any interest in a film, I read the synopsis of it. I haven't even heard of a film with any deep meanings or anything like that for a while. I saw Dr. Sleep which was sort of the sequel to The Shining - it was relatively well done.

I don't expect to ever go to a movie theater again. I saw two episodes of Star Trek Discovery to see if it was really as bad as it was being claimed - yes, it was. It's astounding that it's still on the air.

Since I just watching fiction, when I try to consume it now, I just see actors, bad dialogue - I no longer have "suspension of disbelief" at all. At the end of my ability to enjoy films I found myself predicting the plot, and picking out plot holes for my amusement. There's a HANDFUL of films I would consider watching again. Memento was fun, I'd recommend that - that had maybe one plot hole, and I completely didn't foresee the ending of the film.
31   Shaman   2022 Dec 28, 12:06pm  

Once you learn how to write fiction, you’ll be able to predict most plot lines in movies just based on the literary devices they’re using. It’s kind of annoying. I have to purposely ignore all the turning points and Chekhov’s Guns and old mentors dying to be able to enjoy a film.

I did watch Avatar 2 yesterday and that was entertaining. I’d call it a family film because the importance of family was the most recognizable theme to that movie. The promotion of traditional fatherhood was unite refreshing to see in a modern movie!
32   richwicks   2022 Dec 28, 12:08pm  

Shaman says

I did watch Avatar 2 yesterday and that was entertaining. I’d call it a family film because the importance of family was the most recognizable theme to that movie. The promotion of traditional fatherhood was unite refreshing to see in a modern movie!


The plot seems really thin. I'll read a synopsis at some point, but the first film although it was incredible visually, was really boring from a plot line.

I actually think that the age of entertainment films might be closing.

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