patrick.net

Patrick says

While it looks like Chauvin did use excessive force:

1. Floyd likely would not have died had he not OD'd on fentanyl.
2. To be self-consistent, Democrats must classify his death as a "covid" death like all the others who died with a positive test.

The same exact thing - "I can't breathe" happened with different officers and Floyd in 2019. Except in 2019, the cops dumped him off at the ER and the DA didn't prosecute so he just walked out.

A lifetime of coke, steroid abuse, and now opiates did a job on his cardiovascular system. No 40-something bouncer with a lifetime of drug abuse has that kind of body without chemical assistance.

The audience distracting Chauvin by yelling at him also played a role and they should have been charged with obstructing an officer or sued for contributing to Floyd's death

richwicks says

Chauvin was trained by the IDF, this is what they do to Palestinians constantly. What you are observing is what Chauvin was taught to do.

The Poor Victim Permarefugee Palestinians abducted a Druze kid from a car accident last night at a hospital. Took him off life support and abducted him, in the name of social justice for the oppressed. Or for $$$ to buy more Brooklyn and Stockholm apartments to lease.

I don't think the IDF/Mossad will be able to hold the Druze back. The Paleban are about to see what happens when they fuck with the clannish mountain people, AGAIN because it didn't work out the other 50 times they got into it with the Druze. Even the Glorious Savior Alawite House of Assad never gets it, no matter how many beatings they get because they can't leave well enough alone and FAFO.

Patrick says

While it looks like Chauvin did use excessive force:

1. Floyd likely would not have died had he not OD's on fentanyl.
2. To be self-consistent, Democrats must classify his death as a "covid" death like all the others who died with a positive test.

It is possible 1 is true, it is listed as a contributing factor but not primary. I will dismiss 2. as snark.

Lets just type out the Medical examiners determinations in full glory so we dont argue which words are more important.
Cause of death; Immediate: Cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression
Other contributing conditions: Arteriosclerotic and hyptertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use
Manner: Homicide

The medical examiner puts "neck compression" in the immediate cause of death section. But he did not put drug overdose. Many people on this site are somehow concluding drug overdose was the cause of death.. (that was patricks original claim before i went and dug up the facts and posted the death certificate). But the death certificate does NOT say drug overdose is the cause of death.

Is there some ambiguity in the meaning that the medical examiner meant to convey by putting "neck compression" into the cause of death, but not drug use? well maybe someone should ask him to clarify the meaning..... Oh wait, they did.. Under oath during the trial. What did he say?
_______________
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/medical-examiner-who-ruled-george-floyd-s-death-homicide-blames-n1263670

"My opinion remains unchanged," Baker said as his testimony concluded. "It's what I put on the death certificate last June. That's cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression."

"That was my top line then," he added. "It would stay my top line now."

Blackwell asked him whether he considered the other contributing conditions as direct causes of Floyd's death, and Baker said, "They are not direct causes of Mr. Floyd's death, that's true. They are contributing causes."
___________________

People can imagine different facts but it doesnt make them true. This is what the medical examiner actually wrote on the death certificate and what he actually said in testimony. There is no ambiguity what he meant.

DeficitHawk says

People can imagine different facts but it doesnt make them true. This is what the medical examiner actually wrote on the death certificate and what he actually said in testimony. There is no ambiguity what he meant.

It's also the case that the Free Morphine level in Chauvin Floyd (edit: my goof) was barely below the level at which the Examiner was legally compelled to put Overdose as the cause of Death.

Instead, he was pressured to allow space for it to be a potential choking event, when had it not been politicized, the Examiner would have put "Opiate abuse and 80% pre-existing arterial blockage leading to hypertension crisis"

AmericanKulak says

richwicks says

Chauvin was trained by the IDF, this is what they do to Palestinians constantly. What you are observing is what Chauvin was taught to do.

The Poor Victim Permarefugee Palestinians abducted a Druze kid from a car accident last night at a hospital. Took him off life support and abducted him, in the name of social justice for the oppressed.

Look, you're a fool if you take sides.

Israel will eventually take over the entire West Bank, and once they have they will take over Gaza, and then they will continue to expand, probably into Syria and the Suez.

Who cares? Morality nothing to do with it, and it's just dumb to argue about people and I'm sick of trying to explain the situation without somebody pretending I'm some weeping liberal about the subject. You don't know anything about the history other than what our "reliable news" has told you about it. Talking about this subject with 99% of the population is like trying to talk about vaccines and masking to a died in the wool liberal.

Yep, possession is 90% of the law.

Same reason Indians aren't getting North America back or why Byzantium will probably never be Greek again.

I'm tired of hearing about Levantine Arabs with 2-3 full citizenships/residencies and property in all 3 countries being call "Refugees", or the 8th Fattest People in the world stuffing their mouths with Soda, Pizza, Knafeh, and Figs being called "Starving Refugees" while 100s of Fat Euro Bureaucrats living in Geneva and NY make 6 figure salaries to handle their "Crisis" at the UN as they all have gangbangs with each other and turn a blind eye to corruption while hiring all their academic-corporate-ex EU bureaucrat friends as "Consultants" for 6 figs. As they get more money and UN staff than all the world's refugees combined.

And after all, if Jericho, Bethlehem, and Judea aren't under Jewish, WTF bother with Israel at all. As soon as the world is distracted, they should Ethnically Cleanse.

None of the Euro Wise types or the Human Rights People gave two shits when Kosovar Serbs were purged from cities 90% Serbian by KLA Terrorists. In fact Croatia, Italy, Germany, Turkey, the Ba'athists, and Austria were all happy that their former National Socialist SS Handschar Auxillaries were killing Serbs.

Just like EU one-Europe one-king one-Church HRE types nagged Britain for making IRA thugs stand in their underpants in the corner, but turned up their nose at any investigation of the thousands of disappeared CATHOLICS that ended up in bogs, often without a lick of evidence they were colluding with anybody. Simply victims of an angry neighbor making up lies.

Patrick says

AmericanKulak says

It's also the case that the Free Morphine level in Chauvin was barely below the level at which the Examiner was legally compelled to put Overdose as the cause of Death.

You must mean Floyd there, not Chauvin.

Fixing.

DeficitHawk says

The medical examiner puts "neck compression" in the immediate cause of death section. But he did not put drug overdose.

Since you're being technical, you have to admit the death certificate you posted says "cardioplumonary arrest" first.

DeficitHawk says

It is possible 1 is true, it is listed as a contributing factor but not primary.

It's not just "possible". If it were about anyone else, it would be considered pretty damn certain. But in this case, there is a big motive to ignore the obvious lest reality force a whole cascade of uncomfortable thoughts.

DeficitHawk says

I will dismiss 2. as snark.

It's snark, but it's also truth and should not be dismissed.

The number of Wuhan Virus deaths was artificially pumped up by fraudulently classifying all deaths with a positive test as from the virus in order to instill fear to sell more vaxxing for the sake of Pfizer profits.

https://patrick.net/post/1347601/2022-09-28-deaths-from-wuhan-virus-continue-to-be

AmericanKulak says

I'm tired of hearing about Levantine Arabs with 2-3 full citizenships/residencies and property in all 3 countries being call "Refugees", or the 8th Fattest People in the world stuffing their mouths with Soda, Pizza, Knafeh, and Figs being called "Starving Refugees" while 100s of Fat Euro Bureaucrats living in Geneva and NY make 6 figure salaries to handle their "Crisis" at the UN

Are your serious?

Zelenskyy is a tripple citizen. Israel gets $2 billion dollars a year in US "aid".

Government is corrupt, DUH. It's not just "one side". UN workers were raping kids in exchange for food years ago. It's a fucking joke. That's where UNICEF really goes to, exploitation.

AmericanKulak says

None of the Euro Wise types or the Human Rights People gave two shits when Kosovar Serbs were purged from cities 90% Serbian by KLA Terrorists. In fact Croatia, Italy, Germany, Turkey, the Ba'athists, and Austria were all happy that their former National Socialist SS Handschar Auxillaries were killing Serbs.

Just like EU one-Europe one-king one-Church HRE types nagged Britain for making IRA thugs stand in their underpants in the corner, but turned up their nose at any investigation of the thousands of disappeared CATHOLICS that ended up in bogs, often without a lick of evidence they were colluding with anybody. Simply victims of an angry neighbor making up lies.

Note that the military intervention in Serbia was very controversial in Germany, in fact most of the left, incl. greens were initially against it, siding with the majority of the population. But then "suddenly/miraculously" a (manufactured) "shift in thinking" happened favoring the "realpolitik" greenies and warmongers from other parties, similar to the uniparty here, and somehow vox populi didn't matter anymore. German government has been coopted for a very long time, similar to others.

richwicks says

Zelenskyy is a tripple citizen. Israel gets $2 billion dollars a year in US "aid".

Israel gets $3B in gift certificates to Taxmoney-Fartin and General Dynamics. The PA and Hamas get billions in flat out cash to spend as they please, what little isn't freely given to them to spend as they will, goes to UN Bureaucrats who hire former colleagues from EU Bureaucracies, or high end escorts/mistresses as 6 figure do nothing consultants.

UKRAINE has gotten more aid in the past year than Israel got in decades from the USA. I think it's over $80B before the latest $5B.

Zelensky voted with the UN to condemn Israel's occupation of Jew-dea a few months ago, and in return Israel abstained on a mandated apology vote for Ukraine from Russia. The relationship with Putin and Israel is fairly warm and has been for decades.

The "DaJoos" narrative conveniently forgets facts that don't match their puzzle piece pattern seeking. Such as Soros funding Indymedia and Palestinian Causes and bashing Zionism as a form of evil nationalism incompatible with his World Government crap.

Onvacation says

Many have run screaming from this site because they couldn't handle the cognitive dissonance of their propagandized world view and the truth.

Yes, it's a threat to their comfortable corporate religion which tells them over and over that they are the good guys for going along with whatever the mega-corporations and their wholly owned government tell them to do.

There is a big hump of discomfort to get over to free yourself, and even then it's unpleasant to realize how naive and used you were in the service of pure corporate evil, including murder for profit.

Nobody likes discomfort, and so it is easier to just go along and close one's eyes and ears to anything which contradicts the corporate narrative.

Patrick says

Since you're being technical, you have to admit the death certificate you posted says "cardioplumonary arrest" first.

Absolutely it does. Cardiopulmonary arrest means his heart and lungs stopped functioning. No dispute that his heart and lungs stopped functioning. But the question is Why? Was it caused by a drug overdose? or was it caused by neck compression?

The medical examiner was explicit on the death certificate and in testimony. Neck compression was the primary cause. Drugs was a contributing factor.

You may apply your own medical judgment and reach a different conclusion... but you are not the medical examiner who examined him, and you did not write the official death certificate. The official cause of death is stoppage of heart and lungs due to neck compression. NOT drug overdose.

Patrick says

It's not just "possible".

Again, you may have an opinion that is different from the medical examiner... but according to the medical examiner, drugs were not the direct cause of death.

This entire discussion of cause of death is in response to this question:
Patrick says

Wasn't his official cause of death fentanyl overdose?

I've provided the official documentation and testimony by the official who wrote it removing any ambiguity as to the intent of the document.

The answer to this question, literally, is: "No, it was not".

AmericanKulak says

richwicks says

Zelenskyy is a tripple citizen. Israel gets $2 billion dollars a year in US "aid".

Israel gets $3B in gift certificates to Taxmoney-Fartin and General Dynamics. The PA and Hamas get billions in flat out cash to spend as they please, what little isn't freely given to them to spend as they will, goes to UN Bureaucrats who hire former colleagues from EU Bureaucracies, or high end escorts/mistresses as 6 figure do nothing consultants.

MAN - the money is just wasted.

You don't get there isn't a "good" side. There is no good side. It's just money laundering, ALL THE WAY AROUND, by EVERYBODY involved.

Fucking SICK of talking about this. Unless you spend MONTHS to understand what is going on, you have no idea what is going on, and that's the problem.

I have a memory that initially it was indeed listed as fentanyl overdose, but can't find the article.

In any case, the denial that the massive amount of fentanyl and meth in his system were likely involved seems like "hard cope" as I've heard it put. The obvious explanation is usually the correct explanation.

AmericanKulak says

Bureaucrats living in Geneva and NY make 6 figure salaries to handle their "Crisis" at the UN as they all have gangbangs with each other and turn a blind eye to corruption while hiring all their academic-corporate-ex EU bureaucrat friends as "Consultants" for 6 figs. As they get more money and UN staff than all the world's refugees combined.

Sounds like a standard bureaucratic pork barrel feedback cycle. A similar ethos exists in places like Santa Cruz, where the homeless are coddled with social services, but their main economic benefit is they are avid customers of drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes, making locals and cartels rich. The social services become corrupted and even part of the drug sales enterprise, and they 'need' the homeless to grow. Eventually, the dealers realize they could use friends on the city council, so they recruit some corrupt ghetto type on the knee jerk sympathy libby Netlix ticket to infiltrate the local politics and keep the circular scam going. The homeless are an enterprise opportunity for them, so they just grow in population.

The problem is never solved and just grows because the bureaucrats and graft crooks nest on it.

DeficitHawk says

You may apply your own medical judgment and reach a different conclusion... but you are not the medical examiner who examined him

It seems to me that you are overriding your own better judgement in order to avoid uncomfortable thoughts.

Argument by appealing to authority has been permanently discredited by the actions of the CDC, FDA, and NIH in the last few years. Somehow questioning authority is now taboo among Democrats, a 180 degree reversal from their traditional position.

Patrick says

It seems to me that you are overriding your own better judgement in order to avoid uncomfortable thoughts.

Why would a person I've never met dying of a drug overdose be an uncomfortable thought to me?

Patrick says

Argument by appealing to authority

I am not appealing to authority. You asked a specific factual question, and I gave you clear evidence as to the answer. I have no personal stake in this. I'm just getting tired of checking your facts and finding them to be wrong.

Patrick says

The obvious explanation is usually the correct explanation.

I agree with this statement, and so did the medical examiner and the chief of police and the jury. The obvious explanation WAS the correct explanation.

Onvacation says

cisTits says

You can't 'debate' ppl brainwashed with bullshit,

it's true

I have to hope that there is still some independent thought left in people who watch corporate media. Maybe they do suspect, at least a little bit, that they are being used.

And @DeficitHawk I have to say I'm impressed you're still here.

Patrick says

And DeficitHawk I have to say I'm impressed you're still here.

Happy to be here! could use a little help though... anyone? anyone?

DeficitHawk says

Patrick says

Argument by appealing to authority

I am not appealing to authority. You asked a specific factual question, and I gave you clear evidence as to the answer.

Uh, no, you are still simply dismissing the overwhelmingly obvious answer that Floyd died primarily from the massive amount of fentanyl in his system, not to mention the meth.

Patrick says

I have to hope that there is still some independent thought left in people who watch corporate media. Maybe they do suspect, at least a little bit, that they are being used.

I don't think so. Consider all the lies we've heard from corporate media in just the last 5 years. Donald Trump is a racist, a warmonger, rapist, and misogynist. The Steel Dossier was real, George Floyd was just a totally innocent man that was brutally murdered, the "mostly peaceful protests", the vaccine is "safe and effective", we're in a "pandemic".

These were all pushed, HARD by our "news" media. It's just pure propaganda, and it's EVERYWHERE - did Fox news ever direct their viewership to the bodycam video of his arrest, or demonstrate Floyd was resisting arrest? Did Fox news cover the January 6th protests accurately? They could do a lot to inform their viewers, but they don't. They're not better.

DeficitHawk says

Patrick says

And DeficitHawk I have to say I'm impressed you're still here.

Happy to be here! could use a little help though... anyone? anyone?

Why did you misrepresent my statement?

https://patrick.net/post/1377632/2022-11-10-can-anyone-find-some-democrats-willing?start=447#comment-1900264

I pointed that out, and you ignored it. I would like to know why you did that.

richwicks, when you talk about wiping people along with progeny to destroy their gene pool, its frankly over the line, and I don't think I can have productive discourse with you on the topic any further.

I don't care the rationale why you think this kind of talk is reasonable. It's not. I don't want to use the ignore feature on you yet because I think maybe you will have something productive to say on a different topic and Im willing to wait and see.

DeficitHawk says

richwicks, when you talk about wiping people along with progeny to destroy their gene pool,

PROVIDED they have created a mass genocide event among the human population. Like a 10% or more cull of the population.

That will be the worst genocide in human history, and you think it's appropriate to do nothing about that?

IF this was done, there are 2 choices

1) allow sociopaths that created a genocide to benefit from it
2) wipe them out and remove them from the gene pool, or at least, severely limit that.

IF this was a genocide our world will be in chaos. It will overthrow governments, it will destroy corporations. EVERYBODY will know somebody that was killed by the injection.

Now, if the injections prove to be 100% fatal (or even 50%) fatal or say just 10% fatal, what is to be done? Nothing?

DeficitHawk says

I don't care the rationale why you think this kind of talk is reasonable.

To prevent any future genocide ever again. You don't quite understand the time we live in. What you record on a phone today, can be viewable in equal quality in 2,000 years. Most people don't grasp the enormity of where we are today. History is no longer going to be written by the victors, since it can be recorded permanently, by anybody. The idiots in charge have FINALLY figured this out, which is why there is censorship and attempts to curb free speech.

If we had the technology today, of 1990, but the same nations, the same political landscape, if Russia had invaded Ukraine today, there would be nobody at all in the West capable of explaining the nuance of the situation, and it's a lot more likely we'd be in a real war with Russia by now. If all we had were dial up phones, no internet, just television, chemical film and video tape, nearly nobody would be able to understand the situation. We wouldn't know (for certain) that Victoria Nuland was picking out the next puppet leader in 2014 for Ukraine, the "Russian propaganda" of Ukrainian Nazis would be entirely a myth here.

The common, everyday, jerk can record history today. We can record all the lies of the mainstream "news", we can (and do) catch our elected "leaders" lie to us all the time, we can record it all, and review it, and future generations can review it. If there's a genocide that was committed, we will absolutely know.

Patrick says

you are still simply dismissing the overwhelmingly obvious answer that Floyd died primarily from the massive amount of fentanyl in his system

It seems to me you are dismissing the obvious answer that some guy had a knee on his neck for 9 minutes.

Look, I dont think cops are bad guys or inherently racist. I like cops. I work with the cops in my town all the time, and I wish they had stronger enforcement on a number of problems I have in my neighborhood. AND I review controversies like officer involved shootings, and I do NOT often come to the conclusion that the officer was in the wrong. In fact, I have not seen a case where I thought the officer was in the wrong in my town at all, despite controversial cases where our city council came out against the police department... I mentioned above that I voted against local government officials for wrongly embracing the 'racist cops narrative' in the most recent election... and this was the reason why.

I dont believe the narrative that cops are racist murderers. I dont believe that everyone who gets themselves killed fighting with cops was innocent or should be glorified. Most of the time its very much the opposite. I dont believe that people should be let go if they resist arrest because 'you wouldnt want it to escalate'... I think the police should escalate force proportionally to the resistance until they subdue and arrest the perp. Its a hard job, and some allowance is due for honest errors with good intentions.

But I do not ignore facts and information that I can see, and I don't have such an entrenched political viewpoint that I have to side with a tribe each time there is a controversy. I just look at the facts. 9 minutes with a knee on the neck. Medical examiner says the neck compression killed him. There was no reason for this.

Even if I side with the cops 99% of the time, this one was wrong.

DeficitHawk says

Patrick says

you are still simply dismissing the overwhelmingly obvious answer that Floyd died primarily from the massive amount of fentanyl in his system

It seems to me you are dismissing the obvious answer that some guy had a knee on his neck for 9 minutes.

The media lied about him not resisting arrest, they lied about the drugs that were in his system, they never reported that a year before he did the same stunt (ingesting all the drugs he had on him to prevent a possession charge) a year before, they never revealed what actually happened, they lied about a 2nd autopsy (that never happened, just some pathologist that never inspected the body making claims).

Floyd didn't have any damage done to him by Chauvin. I gave you the video because you can see that he restrained him and didn't crush him.

Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe BEFORE he was pinned. He was having a reaction to his over dose then.

Floyd has been arrested multiple times, he was lying about having claustrophobia.

richwicks says

The media lied about him not resisting arrest, they lied about the drugs that were in his system, they never reported that a year before he did the same stunt (ingesting all the drugs he had on him to prevent a possession charge) a year befo

I am not the media. I am not defending or arguing in support of any media report you heard. I did not say Floyd didnt resist arrest... I know he did, I watched the video. The whole video... bodycams and bystander cams. He was being very difficult and was definitely resisting arrest.

I dont care what happened the previous year, or what drugs the guy took... I dont care if he falsly said he had claustrophobia... all of those background stories dont change the facts of the event itself. None of this changes the fact that the officer kept a knee on the neck of a man for 9 minutes, even continuing after he knew the person wasnt moving and wasnt breathing.

Floyd wasnt a threat, he was face down and unconscious. The knee on neck was a risky/life threatening restraint, which was not appropriate for the situation according to his chief. The officer knew the person was unconscious, but persisted in keeping the knee on the neck. I can definitely make an allowance for a police officer who was just in a difficult struggle to take some time to calm down and realize the resistance/threat is removed and take a moment to adjust his level of force... but the officer kept the restraint on for way way longer than is reasonable even giving generous allowance for 'cooling down'.

DeficitHawk says

I dont care what happened the previous year, or what drugs the guy took... I dont care if he falsly said he had claustrophobia... all of those background stories dont change the facts of the event itself.

It gives you an idea of what is most likely to have killed him.

Same thing happened to him a year before, but he survived his OD that time and this time, he didn't.

You're ignoring data. It's not PROOF that he died of a drug overdose, it's just circumstantial evidence he did and you insist it's not worthy of even considering.

DeficitHawk says

I am not the media. I am not defending or arguing in support of any media report you heard. I did not say Floyd didnt resist arrest...

I have a good advantage over you. I haven't seen "mainstream media" except in snippets in 2 decades. I completely gave up on it when the "mistook" our way into the Iraq War. It took me to about 2005 or so to realize it's not making "errors", it's just lying. You know how I hear the "mainstream media" today? People mindlessly repeat it. Word for word sometimes, but always the same idea.

DeficitHawk says

He hadnt been resisting arrest for a long time, he was face down and unconscious. He wasnt a threat, he was face down and unconscious. The knee on neck was a risky/life threatening restraint,

Again, blame the police department for that. Chauvin was just following his training.

How do YOU know it was a "risky/life threatening restraint"?

When I first heard about the death of Floyd, I remember thinking "well, he was handcuffed! Why restrain him? What was he going to do? Run away?"

Yes, he would have. The police should have released the video ASAP, not weeks later. The corner was correct as well. Floyd has OD many times before, he just got unlucky on this one.

DeficitHawk says

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

Of the three court cases I mentioned, Im only catching flack for the first one. Does everyone agree on the other two?

DeficitHawk says

Of the three court cases I mentioned, Im only catching flack for the first one. Does everyone agree on the other two?

Floyd they got wrong, but we're already talking about that.

Kyle Rittenhouse I think was correct, in fact, there shouldn't even have been a trial.

I don't know enough about the Ahmaud Arbery case. There was a lot of misinformation with regard to that case, to the point I just got sick of trying to figure out what was true.

DeficitHawk says

DeficitHawk says

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

Of the three court cases I mentioned, Im only catching flack for the first one. Does everyone agree on the other two?

1) drug addled thug who died of his drug addiction, got what he deserved after pointing a gun onto a pregnant woman's belly during a home invasion and many more crimes.
2) self defense
3) thug who messed with the wrong people. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes

DeficitHawk says

some guy had a knee on his neck for 9 minutes.

Would that have killed him without all the drugs in his system?
DeficitHawk says

I am not defending or arguing in support of any media

Actually, you are.

Chauvin was a victim of politics. Floyd was a thug. Chauvin did not intend to kill Floyd.
https://spectator.org/chauvin-floyd-evidence/

If justice were the goal, prosecutors would have taken two critical steps to assure that the medical testimony supported the charge of murder. The first was to run a controlled experiment to see if Chauvin’s actions could possibly have resulted in the death of George Floyd. The second was to make the court and the defense aware of the potential compromise of its star medical witness, Hennepin County Medical Examiner Dr. Andrew Baker.

Dr. John Dunn did run such an experiment, and he made a video of the same. Dr. Dunn comes well credentialed. He is a former member and chair of the medico-legal committee for the American College of Emergency Physicians, board certified in legal medicine, and co-author with a pathologist of a chapter on forensics for a text published by the American College of Legal Medicine. He has followed the case from the beginning, studied the videos, and reviewed Floyd’s autopsy report.

Not content to speculate, Dr. Dunn enlisted the help of two men to determine whether or not the prone restraint used by Chauvin on Floyd could have asphyxiated and killed him. He recruited a 230-pound man to play the role of Floyd and a 170-pound man to play Chauvin’s role. At the time of the incident, Floyd weighed 223 pounds, and Chauvin, with his gear, weighed about 170.

The Chauvin proxy applied the handcuffs and placed the “suspect” in the prone restraint position. For a 10-minute period, he put his left knee on the man’s neck and shoulder, matching the pressure Chauvin put on Floyd. Throughout the experiment, Dunn used a pulse oximeter to monitor the oxygen level and pulse of the man being held in this prone restraint.

As Dunn attests and the video shows, “The results were that there was no impact on the oxygen level or the pulse of the restrained man for the full 10 minutes, and no ill effects at the time or two days later when he was interviewed.” Arguably, Dunn’s experiment has more evidentiary value than any contrary proof offered by the State.

Dunn believes that Floyd died from cardiac arrhythmia — a lethal heart rhythm. He observes that Floyd was suffering from severe cardiac disease aggravated by the drugs in his system including methamphetamine and fentanyl. “Exertion and excitement from intoxication and the arrest situation along with the amphetamine stimulant drug effects increase the arrhythmia risk,” says Dunn.

As the State’s charging documents make clear, even the officers on the scene were aware that Floyd may have been suffering from the severe effects of intoxicants. While restraining Floyd, rookie officer Thomas Lane said to Chauvin, “I am worried about excited delirium or whatever.” Chauvin responded, “That’s why we have him on his stomach.” Chauvin was acting in the interest of Floyd’s safety in his positioning, not acting to kill him.

DeficitHawk says

1) George Floyd case
2) Kyle Rittenhouse case
3) Ahmaud Arbery case

I think the juries got all three exactly right. Gives me some confidence in the justice system.

I don't think the jury ever needed to see these three cases. They were all politically motivated prosecutions meant to perpetuate the myth that innocent blacks are being killed for no reason.

Onvacation says

I don't think the jury ever needed to see these three cases. They were all politically motivated prosecutions

I dont agree. I think its important to have laws and enforce them.

Rittenhouse didnt commit a crime, but he did kill people, and it is not uncommon to have a trial in self defense cases that kill people. The facts supported the self defense claim and the jury agreed. Though, I do understand the opinion of some who thought this should not have gone to trial... the particular video evidence of Rittenhouse running away from the first person he would shoot was pretty strong evidence that self defense would be justified... and if I had been the prosecutor I would not have brought the case after seeing that.

The other two cases I think definitely needed to go to trial, and I think the juries got all three right.

DeficitHawk says

Absolutely it does. Cardiopulmonary arrest means his heart and lungs stopped functioning. No dispute that his heart and lungs stopped functioning. But the question is Why? Was it caused by a drug overdose? or was it caused by neck compression?

The medical examiner was explicit on the death certificate and in testimony. Neck compression was the primary cause. Drugs was a contributing factor.

So the phrase that a cop cannot be judge, jury and executioner is valid right? I agree with it. Therefore how can one person determine cause of death 100% factually as in the medical examiner? Sure he can be trained. So was Chauvin. Who had better training? Chauvin made a mistake. Maybe the medical examiner made a mistake? Maybe the ME had someone in his ear hoping to make this go away? Maybe he feared for his own life if he gave his honest and educated opinion.

We have ZERO clue if any of what I just said happened. So it's not just fact because a single medical examiner says so. Our judicial system puts so many innocent people behind bars which is something I think you'd agree with. A jury is unlikely to have any medical experts in it. So that doesn't even matter. They're just going to believe what ONE medical examiner testified. The video was damning obviously, BUT both Chauvin and the medical examiner were EXPERTS in their respective field. You cannot discount that the ME was wrong. And don't bring up the past. Did the ME's past get looked into and factored in?

Fact is his lungs and heart stopped working. No way an ME could determine it wasn't the Fentanyl. If he was actually choking him out in the state he was already in, he'd have been dead or out in a minute. People die not moving sitting on a couch from Fentanyl. He was resisting arrest. His BP and heart rate had to be through the roof leading up to the knee. It's a high probability if they let him go he'd collapse dead 10 minutes later.

No single person can prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt in this case. It was an unfortunate case. Dealing with the criminal element on a daily basis is not a glorious job. Fact is, Floyd should not have been taking illegal substances. I have myself. Never been arrested. There are ways to have fun with stuff, but he was on a highly dangerous drug and freaked out. Your heart explodes and you stop breathing. He was likely having a heart attacked before the knee if you've witnessed one.