patrick.net

Bd6r says

Nothing is clear as of yet. It was not a cakewalk with Ukrainians meeting them with flowers as Russians thought,

That's what WE are told they thought.

The operation is clear, Ukraine can't join the EU or become a NATO member.

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians. This war should have never happened.

AmericanKulak says

One thing is clear: ACTORS MAKE THE BEST PRESIDENTS, WORLDWIDE.

Elect more Actors.

Reagan was great actually. Rest are shitheads, even Ukrainian one.

Maybe instead of a dragged out Golan Heights type perpetual rocket war on Donbas et alia, Putin decided to fritter away some newfound oil and gas wealth to take out as much of the military infrastructure as possible, including the biolabs and Globalist strongholds. Zelinsky seems scarcely worried, and even seems to be acting with conspiracy aforethought with Putin. He's likely a double agent.

richwicks says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians.

It should be up to Ukraine what they join or dont join. Russia should have little say in this

Bd6r says

richwicks says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians.

It should be up to Ukraine what they join or dont join. Russia should have little say in this

In an ideal world, I'd agree with you, but not this world.

Russia has real security concerns after 20 years of demonizing by the west. The Skripals were NOT poisoned by the FSB or any Russian intelligence agency for example. Russia didn't hack our elections, Trump isn't a Putin puppet.

Russia doesn't trust the United States, and they are right not to trust the United States.

The encroachment of NATO on the Russian border is seen as a threat, it's not unreasonable.

If the assholes that run the United States have a FUCK about this country, they would align us with Russia, and dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

richwicks says

Bd6r says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians. This war should have never happened.

This is a "F U, propaganda troll" moment. I now have enough data to accurately classify you.

richwicks says

If the assholes that run the United States have a FUCK about this country, they would align us with Russia, and dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

Yup. But as it stands, the two great powers of China and Russia stand United against us.

If we could make friends with Russia it would open many doors for mutually beneficial activities and trade. We could use our knowledge to show Russia how to tap its huge natural resources.
We could build a road to Nome, Alaska, and then a bridge across the Bering Straight linking both continents by road for the very first time ever.
Think of it, you could ROAD TRIP from Caracas to Johannesburg.

richwicks says

dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

How would it be beneficial? This does not make any sense whatsoever

Bd6r says

richwicks says

dump their alliance with Europe. THAT would be beneficial to the United States and its people.

How would it be beneficial? This does not make any sense whatsoever

What does Europe offer the United States?

Russia is filled with natural resources, they are a major nuclear power, and they have a well educated population.

It's psychopathic to betray Europe, but it's logical. Europe is dependent on Russian energy. Instead of making war in the Middle East and Russia to guarantee we are the only suppliers, cooperate. Although I'm not a sociopath, I can think like one. This would be the logical thing to do, HOWEVER, trust would be an issue, and neither side can trust the other.

A Russian/US cooperation imagine it - it would be the most powerful cooperation the world has ever seen. I doubt Russia or the US would give up its commitments to China, that would be required I think.

Size of Russian economy is about same as of Italy. Why not have union with Bangladesh instead...

Bd6r says

Size of Russian economy is about same as of Italy. Why not have union with Bangladesh instead...

The measure of an economy's size is based on GDP, it's a useless metric.

If I pay you $1.00 to mow my lawn, and you pay me $1.00 to make your lunch, the GDP just went up by $2.00. It's a measure of cash exchange, that's all.

If you get cancer, and spend 1/2 million dollars trying to cure it, that's $1 million in GDP because the money you spent is spent elsewhere.

Sure, Russia is great and important because it is great and important

Bd6r says

Sure, Russia is great and important because it is great and important

Russia is filled with natural resources. Period.

If Russia and the United States invaded Afghanistan, it would be conquered. It's filled with natural resources as well.

richwicks says

Russia is filled with natural resources

So is Brazil and South Africa, and also by the way us.

And why would Russians "share" their resources with others?

It does look like the false flag, fake news and disinformation chaff is out in force, so it might take some time to discern something resembling reality on the ground.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

These aren't unreasonable demands, and Ukraine fighting over this, is just killing Ukrainians. This war should have never happened.

This is a "F U, propaganda troll" moment. I now have enough data to accurately classify you.

I probably owe a follow-up explanation to the group. I'll do it in the form of "here's one tell on how to spot propaganda trolls". Here it is:

1. Realize that propaganda trolls follow marching orders.
2. They are low-level yet organized, they have curators, the curators synchronize their activities.
3. As a group, they synchronously change topics and points. Most of the time very passionately, they would promote a point that just yesterday wasn't even on the radar.
4. Most of us follow multiple boards. If you see this behavior happen at about the same time, and in different sources, and in sync, and they promote the same point, and the personalities are already under suspicion - this is your tell.
5. Today, I observed this switch from "it's all a lie, this is not happening, photos are fake, reports are fake" to "Russia is reasonable, resistance is futile, it's just killing of Ukrainians" in more than one source.

Besides my initial point, this is good news. It means that Ukraine is holding up despite the odds, and that Russia is getting worried.

Eric Holder says

What?

This is just another nothing burger. NATO isn't going to do anything,

What is NATO has to do with the fact that you were caught lying about Russians "not claiming to be liberators"?

When did I ever claim that Russia was liberating Ukraine? You are mistaken.

I don't have emotional involvement with conflicts any more, and I know the people that start these conflicts don't. Russia has an ultimatum, it has NOTHING to do with the quality of life of the peasants of Ukraine. They are exactly like our government, although our government engages in conflicts for corporate profits, not national benefit.

Eric Holder says

Can you even have a cogent conversation without jumping around like a fucking flea on meth from one topic to another? Sheeesh. What a fucking joke.

You mean coherent, not cogent. I often made this error myself.

Do not strawman me.

You want to talk, talk, but don't waste my time trying to force me to defend a position I do not hold.

mostly reader says

Besides my initial point, this is good news. It means that Ukraine is holding up despite the odds, and that Russia is getting worried.

There are rumors that russians want talks. This means they are not winning. Advice from Chechens - talk only about how Russians will surrender with short time frame and in ultimatum form. Otherwise russians will use talk time to regroup and recuperate.

Bd6r says

mostly reader says

Besides my initial point, this is good news. It means that Ukraine is holding up despite the odds, and that Russia is getting worried.

There are rumors that russians want talks. This means they are not winning. Advice from Chechens - talk only about how Russians will surrender with short time frame and in ultimatum form. Otherwise russians will use talk time to regroup and recuperate.

In war, all sides lie.

mostly reader says

Besides my initial point, this is good news. It means that Ukraine is holding up despite the odds, and that Russia is getting worried.

No it means like all involved have said since the beginning. That it is a Civil War between Pro NATO/EU Ukraine, vs the Russian Separatists. 50% of the country is holding up against the other 50%. If that other 50% actually had the might of Putin behind it, it would look more like every US invasion in the Gulf from Kuwait to Iraq and Afghanistan it would be nonstop pressure.
If anyone is getting worried is Zelenski the US offered him an air lift out the country. But Zelinski turned it down. If it's true Putin wants him dead, Biden Needs him dead.
He's got all of the receipts.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/02/leadership-us-offered-ukrainian-president-zelensky-flight-country-save-life-refused-says-wants-stay-defend-country/?source=patrick.net


My friend who is a good guy and means well, listens to the MSM propaganda horse shit and is under the full understanding that Zelenski is in hiding cut off from escaping and Russian troops are going house to house looking for him. My guess is, those reports are bullshit, and Zelenski knows it, and the last thing he should do is get in car that the Godfather of the world's biggest and most open Crime family sent him. Especially knowing he's got the goods on the criminal thug, and they are worried he might sing.

"I'll take my chances with Pootie Poo, thanks but no thanks!"

Smiley Miley; "deploy Drag Team 6!"

Tenpoundbass says

No it means like all involved have said since the beginning. That it is a Civil War between Pro NATO/EU Ukraine, vs the Russian Separatists. 50% of the country is holding up against the other 50%. If that other 50% actually had the might of Putin behind it, it would look more like every US invasion in the Gulf from Kuwait to Iraq and Afghanistan it would be nonstop pressure

I'm not parsing. Do you suggest that this is a Civil War and that there's no Russian invasion in Ukraine?

Bd6r says

mostly reader says

Besides my initial point, this is good news. It means that Ukraine is holding up despite the odds, and that Russia is getting worried.

There are rumors that russians want talks. This means they are not winning. Advice from Chechens - talk only about how Russians will surrender with short time frame and in ultimatum form. Otherwise russians will use talk time to regroup and recuperate.

Thinking a bit more, here's one likely course of events:
- Russians have no infantry worth a damn. Which is why they'll have to employ armored vehicles.
- Those vehicles will be destroyed, but Putler will want results. That will take it to the next step - massive artillery shelling, because the concept of precise hits doesn't exist there in the practical sense.
- The shelling will cause massive civilian casualties.
- Russia may take Kyiv, but at such cost and with such consequences that no number of trolls will help Putler to mitigate the damage. The type of damage which will cause severe financial repercussions.

Lose-lose.

mostly reader says

Russians have no infantry worth a damn. Which is why they'll have to employ armored vehicles.
- Those vehicles will be destroyed, but Putler will want results. That will take it to the next step - massive artillery shelling, because the concept of precise hits doesn't exist there in the practical sense.
- The shelling will cause massive civilian casualties.
- Russia may take Kyiv, but at such cost and with such consequences that no number of trolls will help Putler to mitigate the damage. The type of damage which will cause severe financial repercussions.

Lose-lose.

Reasonable possibility.
Another one - if he will feel that he is losing, Putler will pull out and declare victory. In that case, Ukrainians would be stupid not to attack Donbass.
What worries me is that there is something unpredictable Putler can pull off if he does not get what he wants.

Bd6r says

mostly reader says

Russians have no infantry worth a damn. Which is why they'll have to employ armored vehicles.
- Those vehicles will be destroyed, but Putler will want results. That will take it to the next step - massive artillery shelling, because the concept of precise hits doesn't exist there in the practical sense.
- The shelling will cause massive civilian casualties.
- Russia may take Kyiv, but at such cost and with such consequences that no number of trolls will help Putler to mitigate the damage. The type of damage which will cause severe financial repercussions.

Lose-lose.

Reasonable possibility.
Another one - if he will feel that he is losing, Putler will pull out and declare victory. In that case, Ukrainians would be stupid not to attack Donbass.
What worries me is that there is something unpredictable Putler can pull off if he does not get what he wants.

When Georgia attacked South Ossetia back in 2008, and S. Ossetia asked Russia for help, Russia was in an out in 24 hours. Georgia is a lot smaller than Ukraine, but Ukraine has ONLY recently broken ties with Russia and only did so because of a US led coup back in 2014.

This stupid, pointless war, won't last long. I'd be quite surprised if it was still going on next Friday.

The United States and NATO has fucked Ukraine by putting them into corner by falsely promising them backup and egging them on into a war.

But in a week, I will know if I'm full of shit or not. I expect the resolution will be what Putin demanded in the beginning, making the war entirely pointless for Ukraine. All this war will result in, is a bunch of deaths. Just fucking stupid.

I'd like to see some competent ambassadors again instead of trans-sexual POC twats running this nation. Not to say trans-sexual POC twats aren't necessarily competent, but when you select from only that group of assholes, it's a pretty shallow bowl and slim pickins..

richwicks says

Well educate me.

Russia is a uniquely evil country in the Dark Woods.

If you don't approach Russia like ancient Romans approached the Dank Dark Forest of the Teutonics aorund 30BC, you are a fool.

All Russians do is plot evil against Europe.

The West just wants to bring Russia love and democracy, which is why in the 90s Wall Street firms ran wild in the country and enjoyed laughing Mafia Chaos

But the moment somebody restored a semblance of order, Russia became dark Teutonberg forest again, esp. when the Current Leader of Mordor stopped Wall Street from running wild with shock capitalism.

Refusing to work with any Russian leader who reimposes a semblance of order and doesn't bend over to Wall Street is Correct and Just.

Russia has no Reason to be fearful of Europeans, who only want the best for Russia, the the Orthodox Heretic Slaying Teutonic Order, the Grand Marshal of the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth, Napoleon, Greedy Swedish Kings, Expansive Hapsbergs, and Hitler.

Kick in Ze Door and Der Whole Verrotten Thing Vill Collapse. All ze Nickel, Gold, und Oil be Ours! - Every European State Expanding East into Russia.

Literally the FIRST ACT of 2nd Republic Poland in the 1910s was to invade Russia, and while the excuse is "Bolshevism", they attacked and annexed parts of the East under Whites, Greens, or Ukrainian Ersatz Governments, not just the Reds because they wanted to recreate the Glorious Commonwealth. No Causus Belli, just got up and attacked one day. The ink was not dry on their independence documents, and the territory was way beyond their assignment in the post War Treaties.

Thus, there is no reason for Russia to fear Poland or Europeans generally, but only Europeans are allowed to fear Russians.

Russia must submit to better, smarter, Western rule, recognize the Men can Be Women and Have Lady Penises like Modern People - not Barbarian Nazis do, and open it's resources for purchase by German and City and Wall Street firms.

richwicks says

The United States and NATO has fucked Ukraine by putting them into corner by falsely promising them backup and egging them on into a war.

As predicted 25 years ago by Kennan and over the last decade hammered endlessly by Mearsheimer.

Literally every single step, including the goading against Russia after interfering with domestic Ukrainian politics to select only the most Russophobic leaders right up to the holding out of EU/NATO membership carrots, down to the Last Minute Abandonment when Russia "Did Something."

The other great stupid is the Baltics. The little pipsqueaks are all trouble, no reward.

So many stupid wars started by a Great Power guaranteeing a little Pipsqueak like Andorra or Latvia or San Marino, only to find a huge war when the pipsqueak acts the shit towards another Great Power because he feels he's hanging with the Big Dog, and then runs crying to it's Big Dog demanding military action when the other big guy gets mad and swats it. Even though both have nothing to gain by fighting each other.

But we have Financiers and Georgetown Idealist Kids in charge, whose knowledge of actual geopolitics and history is limited to a half-baked conception of WW2.

Sure would be nice if somebody used a different analogy, like the 30 Years War or the 2nd Anglo-Dutch War or something instead of WW2.

"Ghaddafyi is like Hitler..." "Well, Turkey is like Vichy France... "

If you think Zelenskyy is good now, just wait and see if he signs a deal with Putin.

He'll go from Hero to Zero in the Western Press in a second.

There's a reason Biden wants him to flee to the USA -- so he can't talk to Putin without US approval:

"Blinken, Zelensky is on the phone Putin!"
"Shut it down, Vicky!"

London

Switzerland

Estonia

Poland

Prague

Moscow

Saint Petersburg