patrick.net

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

Are you REALLY comparing Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine to the US' destruction of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Somalia, and Afghanistan?

Don't strawman me: I'm not comparing anything. I'm not having whataboutism conversation either. You asked for examples and I gave them to you.

richwicks says

I do. They are the go to propaganda of the United States. Anybody that doesn't want to restart the fucking Cold War and end up in a nuclear arms race, is a Russian bot.

I never stated that you are a Russian bot. I may give it some possibility, but to me it seems more likely that your mental process is corrupted: avoiding propaganda from one side, you fell right into the arms of a much cruder version of it on the other side.

I don't CARE about the propaganda.

Look, the US doesn't do anything other than to advance agendas. They don't fucking care if Assad is gassing his own people, they don't give a shit if Israel is wiping out Palestinians, they don't fucking care if Ukraine has a democratic system, and they don't give a damned if Putin is putting journalists in jail or killing political opposition. There's absolutely NO MORALS involved with the actions of United States. It's all strategic.

What are the RESULTS of what the US has been doing with Russia in the last 20 years? Well, Russia has a harder time exporting energy. The US is building an parallel system to supply energy to Europe. They had "freedom gas". The war in Syria, if it was won, would allow a pipeline to go in from the Golan to Turkey. Russia has to keep re-routing their pipelines.

It's obvious this is about energy.

I don't care about the "moral implications" of any of this - NEITHER side does.

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

Most likely shot down by Ukraine in an accident. Some people have pointed out that the MH17 looked a lot like Putin's plane

Of course "some people pointed out". https://euvsdisinfo.eu/mh17-seven-years-of-lying-and-denying/?source=patrick.net - it's right there, right after "They were already dead" and before "Spanish dispatcher Carlos". Kremlin bots worked overtime in those weeks,

I don't care about MH-17. It was used just to demonize Russia, what would be the purpose of Russia blowing this plane up? How did it help Russia to do this?

It was however used to demonize Russia for months and to make yet another excuse to do sanctions. Just like the incident with the Skripal's. British Intelligence fingered two innocent (and probably homosexual) tourists as the perpetrators - it was UTTERLY ridiculous. NOBODY died from that except the Skripal's pets which were left in the house to starve to death - probably die of dehydration. APPARENTLY the people going through the home in hazmat suits didn't notice the two gerbils and 1 cat that were left. In any case, they didn't pull them, the cat DID survive, but it was so fucked up they euthanized it.

There's the 3 victims of the mastermind plot to get Sergei Skripal - but it was an excuse to have MORE sanctions!

It's hilarious. The Skripals have disappeared. Perhaps they are dead. They aren't useful now.

Qui bono? That's the only question I ask. When Putin wants to (supposedly) murder an ex-agent, does he arrange to have a "botched robbery" like with Seth Rich - oh no, not novel enough, find a NERVE AGENT that can ONLY BE TRACED TO RUSSIA to make CERTAIN that Russia, and ONLY RUSSIA, can be blamed.

PUTIN: I want Sergei Skripal eliminated
ASSASSIN: Da. Do you want me to knife him, shoot him, take him out in a "car accident", have him commit "suicide"?
PUTIN: Nyet!
ASSASSIN: How?
PUTIN: Smuggle in a very dangerous nerve agent, and wipe it on his door in the hope he will touch it and maybe die from it.

It's fucking hilarious.

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

If you are referring to Russia's "invasion" of Ukraine, it's not an established fact.

Please. It's not an established fact only to someone who swallows RT hook line and sinker.

Noooo. It's only established fact to anybody that thinks ANYTHING this fucking lying government says should even be considered to be true.

Our "news" media played audio "proof" that Russia shot down MH-17, which was an OBVIOUS forgery. Like, our intelligence agencies are so fucking stupid they allowed this to go on air because they fabricated it, or they are so fucking incompetent they can't spot an obvious forgery. They don't care about their credibility a bit apparently, so they don't have any credibility with me.

There's 500 people in jail right now for an "insurrection" which Antifa and BLM lead. They don't give a shit if you believe them but for some reason, you do. I don't. I don't believe our government bombed Libya to prevent a humanitarian crisis, that they attacked Syria because they believe Assad was using chemical weapons, that they attacked Iraq because Hussein had a secret weapons of mass destruction program. My government is filled with scum. They are obvious liars, why should I believe ANYTHING they say?

When they put Bush in prison for lying us into a war, Clinton into prison for apparently selling classified information and shut down the Clinton Foundation, when they admit the ACTUAL reasons they go to war, and they stop lying to me fucking constantly, AFTER THAT, I'll listen to any of their bullshit explanations. But not until then. They have



credibility with me. Do you think that's unreasonable after 20 years of fucking constant lying? Just they stole an election.

Does this mean that Russia has more credibility to me than the US Federal government? Nobody has LESS credibility with me than the US Federal government.

richwicks says

I don't CARE about the propaganda.

That's not what it looks like. You don't care about US propaganda. You do seem to care about Russian propaganda, and spread their talking points. Some of the things that you spread here can be found ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY in Russian propaganda sources.

richwicks says

I don't care about MH-17. It was used just to demonize Russia, what would be the purpose of Russia blowing this plane up? How did it help Russia to do this?

Don't strawman me, yet again. I never said that Russia did it on purpose. From the very beginning the only version that made sense was, and still remains, that it was a tragic accident: Russians thought that they were shooting down a transporter. Girkin (their talking head) made an announcement to that effect, which was promptly taken down. You ask "how did it help Russia?" Keeping in mind that mistaken identity is THE version, your question is a tell for detecting a troll. There are other tells too, glad to share if requested.

I have no interest in your diversions away from the topic, so I skipped the parts about how horrible our government is. It only reconfirms my best-case opinion: that trying to escape one propaganda source, you embraced the other. That best-case opinion assumes that, despite the tells, you are not a troll.

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

I don't CARE about the propaganda.

That's not what it looks like.

I cannot control your perceptions.

mostly_reader says

You don't care about US propaganda. You do seem to care about Russian propaganda, and spread their talking points.

I just look at who is benefiting from what has happened. If that HAPPENS to coincide with "Russian propaganda", it might be because Russia is telling the truth. Propaganda when it is done well is difficult to find a contradiction in it. Only really good lies have no contradictions in them and are entirely plausible. US has really shitty propaganda, and if it's Russian propaganda, they have really good propaganda I guess, because I'm independently coming to the same conclusions that they are lying about, because it makes sense - not because I'm listening to RT or reading Pravda and Izvestia.

mostly_reader says

Some of the things that you spread here can be found ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY in Russian propaganda sources.

Hmm, that's interesting!

mostly_reader says

richwicks says

I don't care about MH-17. It was used just to demonize Russia, what would be the purpose of Russia blowing this plane up? How did it help Russia to do this?

Don't strawman me, yet again. I never said that Russia did it on purpose. From the very beginning the only version that made sense was, and still remains, that it was a tragic accident: Russians thought that they were shooting down a transporter. Girkin (their talking head) made an announcement to that effect, which was promptly taken down. You ask "how did it help Russia?" Keeping in mind that mistaken identity is THE version, your question is a tell for detecting a troll. There are other tells too, glad to share if requested.

Oh, OK, I can see it as being a possible accident on the part of the Russian military but I don't see how a commercial airline jet could be mistaken for a military transporter. But maybe. I think it's more likely that Ukraine would make the error since they were in war, and the flight path should have been registered with Russia who WASN'T at war. Ukraine was more likely to make the mistake.

Remember when Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by the USSR? The Soviets claimed it was done because the plane was carrying spy equipment. It quite possible it was. When the Lusitania was sunk, it was sunk because the Germans believed it was carrying arms for WWI - and it was. Our governments have no compunction about putting civilians into danger or even killing them.

mostly_reader says

I have no interest in your diversions away from the topic, so I skipped the parts about how horrible our government is. It only reconfirms my best-case opinion: that trying to escape one propaganda source, you embraced the other.

No, I haven't.

Ever heard the phrase "honesty is the best policy"? Russia appears to make use of this when they can. The US doesn't. They'll lie when it's not even necessary to lie. Lying is the policy of the US government.

Here's a question - try to find a hole in one of Russia's stories. I've pointed out a few of the West's already. The Skripal story is my favorite, because it's so over-the-top ridiculous.

Does the Ukraine have nukes? 💣

richwicks says

But maybe. I think it's more likely that Ukraine would make the error since they were in war

Nope. There were no Ukrainian BUKs within reach.richwicks says

Ever heard the phrase "honesty is the best policy"? Russia appears to make use of this when they can.

You are either extremely naive or intentionally misleading.

All right, this was fun.

MAGA says

Does the Ukraine have nukes? 💣

Nope. Ukraine surrendered it's nukes in exchange for security assurance backed by US, UK, and (wait for it!) Russia. The Budapest Memorandum - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances. Needs to be remembered each time that "Russia could be a partner" thought comes to mind.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

But maybe. I think it's more likely that Ukraine would make the error since they were in war

Nope. There were no Ukrainian BUKs within reach

Well, that's what would be said, even if it weren't true. MH-17 could have been shot down by a Ukrainian plane. Too bad those black boxes that the West confiscated were never made public - doesn't matter if they are now, since so much time has passed they could have been easily doctored by now. I wonder why the secrecy?

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Ever heard the phrase "honesty is the best policy"? Russia appears to make use of this when they can.

You are either extremely naive or intentionally misleading.

That doesn't give me any information or pushback to make me consider I'm wrong.

The west confiscated the remnants of the plane, they released doctored audio footage that was obviously faked all over our news that implicated Russia, and they haven't released the black box recordings and they have a known and consistent history of trying to frame Russia over and over again in all sorts of silly plots, the Skripal's being the stupidest one that I know of.

It doesn't mean that because the West is lying that Russia is telling the truth, it's just that I CORRECTLY estimate the credibility of Western media at ZERO. I'm not wrong about that.



If the West wanted credibility, they'd stop being such fucking liars and would stop praising them.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/18/politics/colin-powell-dies/index.html?source=patrick.net

Look at how CNN sucks the shit right out of his dead asshole. POSSIBLY the United States had a justifiable reason to go to war with Iraq? Maybe, but if they did, they've never revealed that reason. My hunch is that if they lied, they HAD to lie, because the truth wouldn't be a justifiable reason for war.

Where's the mix-up in my reasoning?

richwicks says

Sure, that will keep people warm, and well fed!

Yeah, well it did for over a Century in the modern era. The problem, the BIG problem with Europe. If you wanted an Authentic France or Italian experience, you went to Europe and visited those countries. Fast forward to the Global economy and decades of importing refugees from all over Africa. Those Countries are now so diluted, that you get a more authentic European experience walking down your Publix grocery isle, than you do in European countries. They've allowed the Commies and the imported filth to deface and destroy the historical landmarks and destinations to the point, nobody wants to go. Couple that with Covid travel nightmares. And you're right, they don't have any resources.

The European vacation experience, was a real tangible economic resource. I remember moving to South Florida when it catered to Tourist and Snowbirds. Even without building or any other industry, our hospitality industry boomed and flourished. Also as a Flooring contractor back then, we got more work and made more money in the "Season" from November to March, than we did the rest of the year. I made more money back then in just four months, than I ever made all year, when we gave up our Snowbird industry.
We chased them all up North so the Real Estate bidding wars on their property could kick off the RE bubble that gripped the world. Yeah, we did that, we were ground Zero to start flipping 800sqft shit shacks.

Now that's all we've got!

richwicks says

Remember when Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by the USSR? The Soviets claimed it was done because the plane was carrying spy equipment.

No, they shot it down because it strayed over into Soviet airspace. The Soviets had no way of knowing what was carried aboard. At that time airlines navigated primarily by INS (inertial nav) using a series of waypoints. My professional opinion is that the crew missed inputting a waypoint in the navigation system, and thus took a direct route from one waypoint to another across Soviet airspace.

HeadSet says

richwicks says

Remember when Korean Air Lines Flight 007 was shot down by the USSR? The Soviets claimed it was done because the plane was carrying spy equipment.

No, they shot it down because it strayed over into Soviet airspace. The Soviets had no way of knowing what was carried aboard. At that time airlines navigated primarily by INS (inertial nav) using a series of waypoints. My professional opinion is that the crew missed inputting a waypoint in the navigation system, and thus took a direct route from one waypoint to another across Soviet airspace.

I have no opinion on that and I certainly don't have the expertise to make an informed judgement. I have the same view of the USSR's integrity of information as I do with the current US'.

According to the USSR, 007 refused to acknowledge repeated attempts to contact them, but who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if the USSR was completely full of crap. They also had a very bad habit of never admitting error, even when it was obvious they delivered a triple distilled class A fuckup.

Personally, I'm glad to see the USSR on the trash heap, what I'm worried about is a similar system springing up in the United States, Canada, New Zealand, Australia, and Europe.

The creation of the USSR seemed to advantage the lowest economic levels of society in Russia in the early 1900's. Peasants that had no previous access to education suddenly had it, but at a great cost and disruption to their life including loss of their land and centuries of custom. Centralized control is awful, you can see that with Fauci today here. Central assholes are dictating that doctors can't prescribe Ivermectin and Hydroxychloroquine to patients - maybe those drugs DON'T work, but that's for the patient and doctor to decide not some bureaucratic dickhead.

richwicks says

Well, that's what would be said, even if it weren't true.

Positions of all BUKs that were in the vicinity are well documented. You are denying the obvious and the well established.
richwicks says

MH-17 could have been shot down by a Ukrainian plane.

No, it couldn't. Analyzes of the projectiles demonstrated beyond shadow of doubt that they came from BUK, even to the extent of pointing out the exact model (they changed the shape of the elements from version to version slightly)

There is a reason why Russia fought tooth and nail to deny the obvious. That reason goes well beyond public image or compensations to the relatives. Presence of that type of BUK and of personnel trained to operate that type of BUK completely destroyed their narrative of the war in Ukraine being a civil war. Ukraine didn't have that type AFAIR, and "farmers and miners" couldn't have learnt to operate it in the field. It was, and still is, damning evidence of Russia invasion into Ukraine.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

Well, that's what would be said, even if it weren't true.

Positions of all BUKs that were in the vicinity are well documented. You are denying the obvious and the well established.

Documented by whom? What makes you think that the "documentation" wasn't altered? It's entirely conceivable records would be altered in the event of an error that killed hundreds of people, and it certainly would have happened if it was actually intentional murder.

mostly reader says

richwicks says

MH-17 could have been shot down by a Ukrainian plane.

No, it couldn't. Analyzes of the projectiles demonstrated beyond shadow of doubt that they came from BUK

Again, this is from these same fucking assholes:



They aren't credible. They aren't fucking credible. Stop telling me "well, the liars who fucking lie us into wars, and lie about the Skripals and lie about coups, they're not lying this time" - maybe they aren't - but they have no credibility. They've cried wolf hundreds of times, not just twice.

The United States and Europe in general have told some of the stupidest, fucking most moronic, childish lies EVER about Russia. Just stuff that is so fucking stupid, just insulting to anybody with any sense of intelligence or self awareness.

WRT Ukraine, there's no question there was a coup there. We know because Victoria Nuland when she said "Fuck the EU" was telling the EU that they had NO SAY in who the next "leader" of Ukraine was going to be - that was going to be an American decision a MONTH before Viktor Yanukovych was removed from power. They were caught RED HANDED in doing that coup, and still insist it was a "revolution". They lie even when they are fucking caught dead to rights.

They have ZERO CREDIBILITY when it comes to ESPECIALLY Ukraine.

I don't fucking listen to these people. They are compulsive liars, anything they say I simply ignore. They will tell you water is dry, and black is white, Trump is a Putin Puppet, Hillary Clinton didn't know that "C" stood for classified, and Hunter Biden is selling artwork and is a real artist, that there was an "insurrection" on January 6th, that Joe Biden is the most popular presidential candidate in all of history, we are facing the most deadly pandemic ever, and that the vaccines work, but unvaccinated people are a threat to the vaccinated. Fuck them, they have no credibility, I don't give a single thought as to what they say. I don't waste ANY OF MY TIME listening to them. They can be, and SHOULD be entirely ignored.

> richwicks
Arguing via doctored images now, are we? Google (or duckduckgo) "russia mh17 doctored photos" and enjoy. From their version of BUK locations (debunked) to the doctored image of an airplane which (by their version) took down MH17. Trouble is, it turned out that the airplane would've been several miles long on that scale. The fcukers couldn't even produce a decent forgery.

And now here you are, offering some of your own. Same training?

mostly reader says

> richwicks
Arguing via doctored images now, are we?

Here, prefer the real one?



See, what we're supposed to believe is that Colin Powell brought in a deadly chemical weapon into the UN in a glass vial to present to the ambassadors there, and nobody saw a problem with that. Holding it with two fingers, good thing he didn't slip, or the world would be a better place, OR we would have found out that the vial was filled with Dick Cheney's cum.

mostly reader says

Google (or duckduckgo)

Haha. It's an open secret in Silicon Valley, where I live, that Google is basically a disinformation arm at this point of the intelligence agencies.



Find a source that doesn't fucking lie to my face.

I only go off on "who benefits" and my nation has no qualms whatsoever about sacrificing people's lives to promote an agenda.

I know:

1) a plane was shot down
2) the US disseminated doctored audio that supposedly proved Russia did it, audio that was proven to be falsified
3) the West confiscated everything from the plane and would not allow any Russian involvement
4) they didn't immediately release the recording of the black box, and today it's only available as a transcript
5) blaming Russia for the downing of the plane advantages US interests.
6) the United States engineered a coup in Ukraine, they didn't have a revolution.

That's it. I can draw a reasonable conclusion from that.

HunterTits says

None of that translates I into military capacity to stop Putin from rolling into Ukraine.

But that too, is not our problem.

Second part is absolutely true - in grand scheme of things Ukrainian problems are not US problems (other than losing ephemeral prestige of guaranteeing Budapest agreements). However, I liked Trump politics - sell arms to Ukraine. US gets $$$ and Ukraine can defend themselves. WIN-WIN!

I specifically pointed out duckduckgo. Why did you ignore it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17?source=patrick.net
"The responsibility for investigation was delegated to the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) and the Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT), who concluded that the airliner was downed by a Buk surface-to-air missile launched from pro-Russian separatist-controlled territory in Ukraine."

It's dishonest to mention the falsified audio and not to mention LOADS, LOADS, and MORE LOADS of bullshit that Russia threw into the mix - from open forgeries to false witnesses. You are as far from "reasonable" as it gets. Your 6 points, particularly their selectivity, are damning. But not in a way that you seem to think.

richwicks says

Who cares what is "internationally recognized"? Why do YOU think this is relevant? Every fucking government is run by a criminal syndicate. Oh, the criminal syndicates don't "recognize" the country. As if anybody, including you, should give a shit about their dumb fucking "opinion".

By that logic, US invasion of Iraq and Syria is perfectly fine. Kurds wanted US troops there, they wanted US attack, so bombing Saddam and Assad was all fine and dandy...you apply different logic to Russia vs. USA.

richwicks says

Ukraine because the Donetsk region has a high number of Russians living there, S. Ossetia to repel invading Georgians at the request of the S. Ossetian government.

Kurds in Syria and Iraq, Albanians in Kosovo, etc. US behaves in exactly the same way as Russia.

richwicks says

Explain the logic. Being able to read Russian makes no difference, anymore that being able to read English makes any difference in understanding MY nation.

A lot of information about Russia is exclusively in Russian.

richwicks says

Really? Name the 7 wars.

Ukraine, Georgia twice, Moldova, CAR, Syria (they did not start but they participate), Libya (did not start but participate), Chechnya twice. Probably something else that I have forgotten.



richwicks says

No, a strong nationalistic Poland disadvantages the EU which in turn disadvantages the United States. A strong nationalistic anything in the EU is a disadvantage to the EU. They intend to become a singular political bloc. We all know that.

No we don't know that. Poland is extremely pro-American, and is widely hated in Europe for that. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to EU and an advantage to US as in they buy a lot of US weapons. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to Russia as in they will help Ukraine.

richwicks says

I'm pretty quick in spotting logical fallacies at this point.

Did you spot logical fallacies in your own reasoning, for example in all US invasions bad, all Russian invasions good?

About Malaysia airlines, the likely explanation is so-called "monkey with a grenade" or in Russian "obez'jana s granatoi". Russians gave local Donbass alcoholics an advanced weapon system and they fired at SOMETHING, which turned out to be a civilian aircraft. There is a snippet of local Donbass separatist news where an hr after downing the airplane they boasted about shooting down Kiev regime transport plane. One of Donbas separatist leaders (Girkin) admitted to shooting down the plane.

But of course all of this information is in Russian, and knowledge of Russian is not necessary for some to come to conclusions about anything happening in former USSR...

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Who cares what is "internationally recognized"? Why do YOU think this is relevant? Every fucking government is run by a criminal syndicate. Oh, the criminal syndicates don't "recognize" the country. As if anybody, including you, should give a shit about their dumb fucking "opinion".

By that logic, US invasion of Iraq and Syria is perfectly fine. Kurds wanted US troops there, they wanted US attack, so bombing Saddam and Assad was all fine and dandy...you apply different logic to Russia vs. USA.

No, the invasions didn't do anything for the United States. It has only hurt the United States. My definition of the "United States" doesn't mean "the government of the United States", it's the people of the United States.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Ukraine because the Donetsk region has a high number of Russians living there, S. Ossetia to repel invading Georgians at the request of the S. Ossetian government.

Kurds in Syria and Iraq, Albanians in Kosovo, etc. US behaves in exactly the same way as Russia.

Russia is free to waste as much money as they want.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Explain the logic. Being able to read Russian makes no difference, anymore that being able to read English makes any difference in understanding MY nation.

A lot of information about Russia is exclusively in Russian.

I'd just be hearing hearsay anyhow.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Really? Name the 7 wars.

Ukraine, Georgia twice, Moldova, CAR, Syria (they did not start but they participate), Libya (did not start but participate), Chechnya twice. Probably something else that I have forgotten.

A short incursion is not the same thing as years upon years of wars, and trillions of dollars spent.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

No, a strong nationalistic Poland disadvantages the EU which in turn disadvantages the United States. A strong nationalistic anything in the EU is a disadvantage to the EU. They intend to become a singular political bloc. We all know that.

No we don't know that. Poland is extremely pro-American, and is widely hated in Europe for that. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to EU and an advantage to US as in they buy a lot of US weapons. Strong Poland is a disadvantage to Russia as in they will help Ukraine.

"Pro-American" can mean many things. I'm pro-American, which is why I'm anti Federal government, because my government is anti-American. I don't confuse this shit government with this nation. I don't think the Poles do either.

Europe's governments are strongly pro American federal government, and anti-American.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

I'm pretty quick in spotting logical fallacies at this point.

Did you spot logical fallacies in your own reasoning, for example in all US invasions bad, all Russian invasions good?

OK, the US has bombed Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Iraq, Libya, Yemen, and Somalia in the last 20 years.

Name all the ways this has helped this country - NOT OUR CRIMINALS IN POWER (I know the Sackler family did well in Afghanistan, Halliburton did well in Iraq, a bunch of other criminals were HOPING to do well in Syria, etc) - how have 20 years of wars improved this nation?

I don't care of Russia destroys itself. Wars are neither "good" nor "bad" - they are beneficial or detrimental. I don't see in any way how any of the last 20 years of wars the US has engaged in have been beneficial to this nation in any way, and several ways they have been detrimental.

Bd6r says

There is a snippet of local Donbass separatist news where an hr after downing the airplane they boasted about shooting down Kiev regime transport plane. One of Donbas separatist leaders (Girkin) admitted to shooting down the plane.

But of course all of this information is in Russian, and knowledge of Russian is not necessary for some to come to conclusions about anything happening in former USSR...

Find the clip or it doesn't matter.

If it's worthwhile, I'll find somebody that can translate it.

If the clip can't be found, then it may as well not exist.

I used to collect lies of our "news" media, but it's pointless at this point because 1) I have so much 2) everything is a lie.

richwicks says

No, the invasions didn't do anything for the United States. It has only hurt the United States. My definition of the "United States" doesn't mean "the government of the United States", it's the people of the United States.

Russians invading neighboring countries also did not do much positive things for Russia. These changed relatively pro-Russian Ukrainians into anti-Russian ones. Basically, Russians made enemies all around their country...
richwicks says

Russia is free to waste as much money as they want.

That is absolutely true. But we should not say that this Russian waste of money is different from US waste of money...other than not being our business
richwicks says

I'd just be hearing hearsay anyhow.

You would be able to, for example, listen to what Doneck separatist leaders say etc. Much more information available, including about the Malaysian airlines that you make statements above.
richwicks says

A short incursion is not the same thing as years upon years of wars, and trillions of dollars spent.

Russian troops are in Moldova since 1992, for example. I believe this does not qualify as a "short intrusion"
richwicks says

Name all the ways this has helped this country

I have never claimed that any of these wars have benefitted USA.
richwicks says

I don't care of Russia destroys itself. Wars are neither "good" nor "bad" - they are beneficial or detrimental. I don't see in any way how any of the last 20 years of wars the US has engaged in have been beneficial to this nation in any way, and several ways they have been detrimental.

Agreed, but then I don't understand your whitewashing of Russian aggressions. They are not much if any of US business, but one should not say that US attacking someone is wrong while at the same time excusing nearly identical Russian attacks. That does not make any logical sense.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

No, the invasions didn't do anything for the United States. It has only hurt the United States. My definition of the "United States" doesn't mean "the government of the United States", it's the people of the United States.

Russians invading neighboring countries also did not do much positive things for Russia.

Well, I don't live in Russia. It's not my problem. That's the Russians problem.

I no longer look at this from a moral point of view. I object to raping a nation, I'm against that, however raping and nation and getting nothing out of that, that's worse.

Bd6r says

These changed relatively pro-Russian Ukrainians into anti-Russian ones. Basically, Russians made enemies all around their country...

Yeah, they would deserve that. That's what US invasions have done - made enemies. Don't believe me? Take a vacation in Syria, Iraq, or Libya - and make certain everybody knows you're an American...

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Russia is free to waste as much money as they want.

That is absolutely true. But we should not say that this Russian waste of money is different from US waste of money...other than not being our business

It IS different, Russia wasting money doesn't harm my nation. It harms their nation.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

I'd just be hearing hearsay anyhow.

You would be able to, for example, listen to what Doneck separatist leaders say etc. Much more information available, including about the Malaysian airlines that you make statements above.

Everybody has an agenda. I'd have to look into their past statements to ascertain their credibility. I've done that with US generals that show up on the propaganda. They are complete liars, they have no credibility.

It would be considerable work to learn the language just to find out their viewpoint.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

A short incursion is not the same thing as years upon years of wars, and trillions of dollars spent.

Russian troops are in Moldova since 1992, for example. I believe this does not qualify as a "short intrusion"

This is Maldova today:

https://goo.gl/maps/E3K51zbajZdQvvZ3A?source=patrick.net

This is Syria today:

https://goo.gl/maps/rxDxHxbkjeVnpoN26?source=patrick.net

Look around. Doesn't seem Russia is fucking up Maldova. I might have to look around more.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

Name all the ways this has helped this country

I have never claimed that any of these wars have benefitted USA.

But that's why I oppose them.

I oppose war with Russia not because this will harm Russia, but because it will harm the United States. The psychopaths that run this country don't CARE if they harm the United States.

Bd6r says

richwicks says

I don't care of Russia destroys itself. Wars are neither "good" nor "bad" - they are beneficial or detrimental. I don't see in any way how any of the last 20 years of wars the US has engaged in have been beneficial to this nation in any way, and several ways they have been detrimental.

Agreed, but then I don't understand your whitewashing of Russian aggressions.

Because nuclear war with Russia isn't only bad for Russia, it's also bad for the United States. Our government's bitching and moaning about "Russian aggression" is nothing more than an excuse for the US to engage in aggression against Russia.

At one point, LONG LONG AGO, the US had "diplomacy" and wasn't constantly trying to piss off every fucking nation on the planet. I'd like to return to that. If Russia is doing BAD THINGS, fine, talk about the actual bad things they are doing - but my criminal government just makes shit up all the fucking time. Russia isn't a boogeyman. It seems to me our criminal establishment is afraid of Russia's rising power and expanding freedom and want to put an end to that.

Bd6r says

They are not much if any of US business, but one should not say that US attacking someone is wrong while at the same time excusing nearly identical Russian attacks. That does not make any logical sense.

The US government doesn't CARE about "Russian aggression" nor do they care about "freedom" or "civil rights". The conflict with Russia is over energy, and they seemingly are willing to go to WWIII over that. I'm not. This would be bad for everybody in the world, including people in the United States.

If the US was ADVANTAGED by these dumb fucking conflicts they engage in, I could at least see reasoning it it, but all the wars the US engages in isn't just looting a foreign nation of its resources, but looting the US of its resources. The wars against Libya, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and Somalia aren't just wars against them, they are wars against US as well.

It's a complete misallocation of resources and these wars harm 99.9% of the country. That's the principle reason I oppose these stupid, fucking wars.

1 year ago, the US was energy independent so what excuse does the US have to be at war?

It doesn't matter anyhow, the US' fate is sealed. We're going to go the way of the USSR. We can't change it through protests, voting, anything - the federal government has to be dissolved, and that's going to cause a lot of chaos when it happens. This is bad for the nation, but it will be worse if we allow these fucking psychopaths to continue to run it, because that's bad for the nation too. The longer it goes on, the worse it will be when we revert to the mean.

richwicks says

We're going to go the way of the USSR

USSR. An Atheist's paradise.

B.A.C.A.H. says

richwicks says

We're going to go the way of the USSR

USSR. An Atheist's paradise.

Nope.

I was a hard atheist, and once would argue with you about your false faith - and even then I recognized the USSR was no paradise. They had a religion - worship of the state.

I have a bunch of clocks from the USSR - most of them have Stalin or Lenin on the clockface.

Favorable View of US Rankings:
https://stacker.com/stories/132/countries-most-and-least-favorable-views-us?source=patrick.net
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2018/10/01/trumps-international-ratings-remain-low-especially-among-key-allies/?source=patrick.net#interactive

The Gooks, The Hussars, the Mail Order Asian Brides, and DA JOOS are in the lead. Krauts, Conquistadors, Le Baguettes, and the Canuckistanis don't like the US much.

I would say that the standard array of Globalist foreign leaders would only show approval for a weak President or as we have now a President who is actively destroying and selling out the country. If Trump has a low approval rating amongst this bunch, that counts highly in his favor.

richwicks says

your false faith

Ahem,

yes I know, you are so smart that you know what's inside the mind of others. I did not profess any faith on this website nor elsewhere.

Just because I am open minded and agnostic does not mean more than that, even though you seem to think so. Did it ever occur to you to have humility enough to know, that you don't know?

"Biden Made a 180 Degree Reversal With Ukraine - Something Else Is At Play Here"
Illuminati in Switzerland/Geneva on the run? Klaus Barbie Schwab in Antarctica with other Globalist Criminals? What the fuck is in Antarctica that it a favorite destination of Globalists and Skull and Bones puppets?
https://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=188817&source=patrick.net
"When you add that fact to Biden’s most recent comments saying that the US was not going to send troops to Ukraine, and it was not on the table. And, that full membership for Ukraine into NATO was still not possible for a decade of so. Those three things completely changed the war footing in Ukraine and the possibility of going to war with Russia.

Unfortunately, with a senile Biden, that could change overnight. But it appears if Russia doesn’t invade Ukraine and simply stands down from the conflict, it is highly likely this situation could be genuinely defused. Judging from the former war talk and European rhetoric that was being spread for months - for that build up to a confrontation - it would appear that all of the players involved in this massive, orchestrated operation may find themselves highly disappointed that it didn’t end up in a real war."

Ceffer says

"Biden Made a 180 Degree Reversal With Ukraine - Something Else Is At Play Here"

Simple Cold War politics are extinct, they don't matter.
Number two, the Biden regime does not want to expose just how weak and feckless Miley and Loyd Austin has neutered our Armed forces with their Woke nonsense.

I'm more scared of the unknown reason they have done so, than I am from any military threat out there.

Tenpoundbass says

I'm more scared of the unknown reason they have done so, than I am from any military threat out there.

Ahhh, Gen Rall Mirrey, you do vely fine work. Much job consultant for Boeing, you come China help after Retirement. Half a million for a few years, no show job, you work from home. So very good.

AmericanKulak says

Ahhh, Gen Rall Mirrey, you do vely fine work. Much job consultant for Boeing, you come China help after Retirement. Half a million for a few years, no show job, you work from home. So very good.

LOL!

Russia taking Ukraine and halting the wilful criminal state of money laundering, drug sales, trafficking etc. established by Soros/Biden/Obama color revolution wouldn't be the worst thing, except one bite taken would just whet their appetite for everything from the Black/Caspian Seas back to the Baltic States.

Strange, if you draw a semicircle from Moscow to Ukraine, Belarus, Baltic States etc., their borders are all from about 250 miles to 350 miles from Moscow. That's about the distance from San Francisco to Pismo Beach/ Santa Barbara, so no wonder in addition to ports in Black Sea/Crimea they want that buffer zone.

Strange, Russia owns a small area on the Baltic Sea between Lithuania and Poland called Kalliningrad Oblast granted after WWII. They have tried to sell it back to adjoining countries, but nobody wants it, so they park a bunch of military equipment and bases there.

Ceffer says

Strange, Russia owns a small area on the Baltic Sea between Lithuania and Poland called Kalliningrad Oblast granted after WWII. They have tried to sell it back to adjoining countries, but nobody wants it, so they park a bunch of military equipment and bases there.

That's the homeland of my great-grandfather going back many generations.

F*ckin' Nazis ruined it by creating a situation that the Soviet Union expelled the Germans. We cannot blame the Russians for doing that, but now there's no residual German cultural sites for folks like me to visit. :(

F*ckin' Nazis.

My maternal grandmother was from the area around Poznan.

B.A.C.A.H. says

richwicks says

your false faith

Ahem,

yes I know, you are so smart that you know what's inside the mind of others. I did not profess any faith on this website nor elsewhere.

I intended to point out that I'm far, FAR less astringent on my convictions than I once was. My atheism was absolute at one point. I now consider this a severe character fault. There was a point where if a person mentioned their belief in religion X, I would dismiss anything else they would say, and attack their religious belief. My naive, and childish assumption, was that if they were wrong about one thing, they were wrong about everything because my entire thinking system is built all atop a pillar, and if you can knock down one (major) pillar of mine, you'll mostly collapse my reasoning process and make me start over.

My reasoning is built either on top of a foundation of stone or sand. So far, I've found stone - but it's all tightly interlinked. If you successfully show me to be wrong in a foundational belief, you'll see me disappear for days, maybe weeks or even months, as I rebuild. I cannot deny when I'm wrong when I'm proven to be, but proof - that's a difficult thing to demonstrate, even when I am wrong.

I've found that many religious people have good reasoning although I believe their basic assumptions about existence are incorrect. I no longer place my atheism as a foundation. Religious people and atheist people often and quite frequently come to the same conclusion and their viewpoint of existence is irrelevant in their reasoning process although it was a foundation for me for a long time.

B.A.C.A.H. says

That's the homeland of my great-grandfather going back many generations.

F*ckin' Nazis ruined it by creating a situation that the Soviet Union expelled the Germans. We cannot blame the Russians for doing that, but now there's no residual German cultural sites for folks like me to visit. :(

F*ckin' Nazis.

@B.A.C.A.H.
depends where exactly he was from. A small piece of former Prussia is now in Lithuania and it is perfectly safe and enjoyable to visit (when/if covid crap ends). This is Klaipeda/Memel district. Has a rather pretty seashore, Curonian Strip.

Ceffer says

They have tried to sell it back to adjoining countries

I don't think it's true. Russia never cedes any territory unless forced to.

Maybe they were just asking too much for it. Adjacent countries know Russia could just steam roller them, anyway, why buy something from them.

Ceffer says

Maybe they were just asking too much for it. Adjacent countries know Russia could just steam roller them, anyway, why buy something from them.

I never heard about them even asking anything for it. When did it allegedly happen? After WWII? After collapse of Eastern Block?