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24
komputodo
2021 Aug 25, 11:16am
komputodo
2021 Aug 25, 11:16am
WookieMan says
They projected that mileage using current data......lololol...which will eventually be adjusted down.
How is this provable? I'm asking because I don't know anyone who has even 30k miles on their Tesla yet.
They projected that mileage using current data......lololol...which will eventually be adjusted down.
25
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 11:17am
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 11:17am
FuckCCP89 says
Not gonna lie, as long as he's responsible, having a couple of beers sounds fun. 2 hours though is not worth a couple beers in my world and maybe, maybe saving 50% on "fuel" for an overpriced car. Time is money.
The math doesn't and hasn't added up on EV's. I want them to work, as I think performance and acceleration could/is amazing. I/we need distance and ease of refueling. If they don't fix recharge time and distances on a charge (both), I'm out.
WookieMan saysIf you make good money, the fact is EV's are a waste of time. I can fuel up a Sequoia in 3 minutes and be back on the road.
My BIL used to brag how he covers the distance from his house to ours in 6 hours. Now he does it in 8-9 and brags how he is drinking beer and watching Netflix while his Tesla is charging. =))
Not gonna lie, as long as he's responsible, having a couple of beers sounds fun. 2 hours though is not worth a couple beers in my world and maybe, maybe saving 50% on "fuel" for an overpriced car. Time is money.
The math doesn't and hasn't added up on EV's. I want them to work, as I think performance and acceleration could/is amazing. I/we need distance and ease of refueling. If they don't fix recharge time and distances on a charge (both), I'm out.
26
Hircus
2021 Aug 25, 11:18am
Hircus
2021 Aug 25, 11:18am
rocketjoe79 says
Ya, batteries are the key. Without them, if most people had solar, they would still need to maintain base load power plants near today's capacity to deal with the occasional heat wave day with clouds, where power demand is high, but power generation suddenly drops off a cliff due to a cloud. My understanding is this is what causes some of the recent CA brownouts - clouds during heat waves. Batteries can buffer some of that power generation volatility for a while.
A home solar system w/ batts is much more expensive though. But, seems to me maybe one day they will just use the batts in everyone's cars.
Hircus says
Another thing I think about is how right now, they talk about how fragile our grid is, and susceptible to attack. Imagine how much sweeter of a target it will be if 75% of vehicles were electric, with most families only owning electric cars?
It's so easy to take down a power transmission line, or attack other key electric infra, decimating an areas ability to travel.
If you add Solar and Batteries to most houses, the grid becomes much much more distributed and resilient. Problem solved.
Ya, batteries are the key. Without them, if most people had solar, they would still need to maintain base load power plants near today's capacity to deal with the occasional heat wave day with clouds, where power demand is high, but power generation suddenly drops off a cliff due to a cloud. My understanding is this is what causes some of the recent CA brownouts - clouds during heat waves. Batteries can buffer some of that power generation volatility for a while.
A home solar system w/ batts is much more expensive though. But, seems to me maybe one day they will just use the batts in everyone's cars.
27
zzyzzx
2021 Aug 25, 11:23am
zzyzzx
2021 Aug 25, 11:23am
ohomen171 says
At that price I hope that you are generating all or almost all of your electricity.
We are charged 19 cents US per kilowatt-hour of electricity consumed.
At that price I hope that you are generating all or almost all of your electricity.
28
RWSGFY
2021 Aug 25, 11:38am
RWSGFY
2021 Aug 25, 11:38am
zzyzzx says
Believe it or not, this is considered cheap in CA.
ohomen171 saysWe are charged 19 cents US per kilowatt-hour of electricity consumed.
At that price I hope that you are generating all or almost all of your electricity.
Believe it or not, this is considered cheap in CA.
29
Hircus
2021 Aug 25, 11:46am
Hircus
2021 Aug 25, 11:46am
WookieMan says
Local weather permitting, I don't think anything can quite match the energy independence of home solar with batteries. Obviously clouds cut your production 80-90%, and so doesn't work well in some areas. I've heard they have panels that aren't destroyed even in large hail. I imagine polycarbonate sheet, like what they use for greenhouses, would work as a shield, and might be what they use from the factory.
A home w/ solar + batteries is 100% grid independent, long term. No matter what shit show is going on w/ local govt and utilities, you have nice silent energy independence that will not run out, and they cannot "turn you off". Nat gas has been very reliable in recent decades, but the sun is the ultimate. If there is ever a serious nat disaster, or a real pandemic where the gas utility workers refuse to go into work (or are dead), your solar system keeps you running w/ electricity.
I don't have solar yet, but will in the future. I do own a tri-fuel generator, that runs on gasoline, nat gas, and propane, and I stockpile propane. For short term, non-SHTF electricity backup, you cant beat the price and performance of a generator.
rocketjoe79 saysIf you add Solar and Batteries to most houses, the grid becomes much much more distributed and resilient. Problem solved.
Nat gas is better as a backup.
Local weather permitting, I don't think anything can quite match the energy independence of home solar with batteries. Obviously clouds cut your production 80-90%, and so doesn't work well in some areas. I've heard they have panels that aren't destroyed even in large hail. I imagine polycarbonate sheet, like what they use for greenhouses, would work as a shield, and might be what they use from the factory.
A home w/ solar + batteries is 100% grid independent, long term. No matter what shit show is going on w/ local govt and utilities, you have nice silent energy independence that will not run out, and they cannot "turn you off". Nat gas has been very reliable in recent decades, but the sun is the ultimate. If there is ever a serious nat disaster, or a real pandemic where the gas utility workers refuse to go into work (or are dead), your solar system keeps you running w/ electricity.
I don't have solar yet, but will in the future. I do own a tri-fuel generator, that runs on gasoline, nat gas, and propane, and I stockpile propane. For short term, non-SHTF electricity backup, you cant beat the price and performance of a generator.
30
socal2
2021 Aug 25, 12:53pm
GreaterNYCDude says
As others have pointed out, the Tesla battery will last longer than most of the components in the car. I believe Tesla is shooting for a million mile battery.
In terms of maintenance, the only thing to do is rotate tires and replace windshield wiper fluid. No oil changes, no transmission work, brakes last forever since EV's use regen most of the time to stop.
How often do you need to replace the battery? Are there any other maintained costs for an electric vehicle that you would not have for a gasoline powered one (or vice versa) to get a true comparison, look at the total cost of ownership. Purchase price, tax credits, depreciation, fuel (or electric costs), maintance costs, etc.
As others have pointed out, the Tesla battery will last longer than most of the components in the car. I believe Tesla is shooting for a million mile battery.
In terms of maintenance, the only thing to do is rotate tires and replace windshield wiper fluid. No oil changes, no transmission work, brakes last forever since EV's use regen most of the time to stop.
31
komputodo
2021 Aug 25, 12:57pm
komputodo
2021 Aug 25, 12:57pm
ohomen171 says
How to get the purchase of EVs cars to make sense?...subsidize the purchase cost and registration fees... raise purchase prices and fees on gas fueled cars...maybe create special lanes and parking spaces for EVs. Have social media promote them 24/7 so buyers can earn VS points.
Electric Cars Are Starting To Make Sense
How to get the purchase of EVs cars to make sense?...subsidize the purchase cost and registration fees... raise purchase prices and fees on gas fueled cars...maybe create special lanes and parking spaces for EVs. Have social media promote them 24/7 so buyers can earn VS points.
32
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 12:59pm
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 12:59pm
HunterTits says
Yep, they have a huge problem with solar over-production already. Theoretically, you can size you batteries just right to not need the grid connection at all. There is some Oracle VP guy who did exactly that when faced with $20K bill from P&G for running a line to his house in the mountains off Skyline Blvd. He decided to go fully off-grid and paid ~$300K for a system to power his 2500 sq.f. house. The numbers might be slightly off but they are in the ballpark.
UPD. Found it: https://patrick.net/post/1338203/2021-02-20-what-it-really-takes-to-be-off-the-grid
rocketjoe79 saysIf you add Solar and Batteries to most houses, the grid becomes much much more distributed and resilient. Problem solved.
No it doesn't. That extra juice you sell back to the utility? Just gets bled off as heat at the local substation. The grid was not designed at all for it to handle reverse distribution.
Yep, they have a huge problem with solar over-production already. Theoretically, you can size you batteries just right to not need the grid connection at all. There is some Oracle VP guy who did exactly that when faced with $20K bill from P&G for running a line to his house in the mountains off Skyline Blvd. He decided to go fully off-grid and paid ~$300K for a system to power his 2500 sq.f. house. The numbers might be slightly off but they are in the ballpark.
UPD. Found it: https://patrick.net/post/1338203/2021-02-20-what-it-really-takes-to-be-off-the-grid
33
BoomAndBustCycle
2021 Aug 25, 1:00pm
HunterTits says
Model 3 costs about $40k before tax breaks… find me a car that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds and has 1/4 the tech a model 3 has for less? Seriously, name a similar ICE in that price range that has the capabilities of the Tesla? I’m shopping for a car in the next year so I would like to know!
Anything in the $30-40k range is inferior, if you don’t need a large SUV and have a normal to long commute. I was looking for a car for my wife in that range and Tesla kicks all their butts. Test drove the model 3 recently and it makes all other vehicles in that range feel like dinosaurs.
I honestly feel like they must be losing money on the lowest priced model 3. Or breaking even at best. They make their profit selling EV credits and the from the high end Tesla’s. That’s why a 3 year old Model 3 sells for the same as one that is new. That and you can’t get a model 3 until January now due to chip shortage.
First, the high end Caddy is a straw man argument. Nobody HAS to purchase a $75k - $100,000 ICE vehicle. But if you want a Tesla, you do.
Model 3 costs about $40k before tax breaks… find me a car that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds and has 1/4 the tech a model 3 has for less? Seriously, name a similar ICE in that price range that has the capabilities of the Tesla? I’m shopping for a car in the next year so I would like to know!
Anything in the $30-40k range is inferior, if you don’t need a large SUV and have a normal to long commute. I was looking for a car for my wife in that range and Tesla kicks all their butts. Test drove the model 3 recently and it makes all other vehicles in that range feel like dinosaurs.
I honestly feel like they must be losing money on the lowest priced model 3. Or breaking even at best. They make their profit selling EV credits and the from the high end Tesla’s. That’s why a 3 year old Model 3 sells for the same as one that is new. That and you can’t get a model 3 until January now due to chip shortage.
34
Zak
2021 Aug 25, 1:01pm
Hircus says
This is the other great thing.. I can use the solar on my roof to recharge the car while I'm swimming in the pool. Even if the power is out and gas stations can't pump gas!
It's so easy to take down a power transmission line, or attack other key electric infra, decimating an areas ability to travel.
This is the other great thing.. I can use the solar on my roof to recharge the car while I'm swimming in the pool. Even if the power is out and gas stations can't pump gas!
35
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 1:02pm
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 1:02pm
Zak says
Not if CA regulator declares a "flex alert", lol. Tesla's software will shut off charging. And they will if some part of the grid is down, be sure of that.
Hircus saysIt's so easy to take down a power transmission line, or attack other key electric infra, decimating an areas ability to travel.
This is the other great thing.. I can use the solar on my roof to recharge the car while I'm swimming in the pool. Even if the power is out and gas stations can't pump gas!
Not if CA regulator declares a "flex alert", lol. Tesla's software will shut off charging. And they will if some part of the grid is down, be sure of that.
36
socal2
2021 Aug 25, 1:03pm
WookieMan says
There are already Tesla models with 400+ mile range. Believe you can get 80% charge in 20 minutes at a super charger.
The vast majority of drivers in the US drive less than 30 miles a day, so EV charging is not a problem at all provided you can charge at a home garage. If you have to rely on public charging, I agree that EV's can be inconvenient.
I've been driving an EV for nearly 3 years now and can't imagine ever going back to old fashioned internal combustion engines again. I can't stand driving my wife's new SUV. Even without the gas savings I've been getting by charging at home (@$200 a month for me) the acceleration and deacceleration performance is just night and day and so much more fun to drive compared to ICE cars IMO. I have never driving a car that is faster and more responsive - and I just have a crappy Chevy Bolt which is not nearly as fast as the base Tesla models.
I plan on getting a Model Y first of the year.
Probably not going to happen anytime soon to hit 300k. To drive that much you'd have to charge constantly. My wife puts on 40k miles a year on her car. Can't do that with a Tesla without losing money and time.
Until you can get a full charge in 5 min and 400 mile range, we're not touching full electric.
There are already Tesla models with 400+ mile range. Believe you can get 80% charge in 20 minutes at a super charger.
The vast majority of drivers in the US drive less than 30 miles a day, so EV charging is not a problem at all provided you can charge at a home garage. If you have to rely on public charging, I agree that EV's can be inconvenient.
I've been driving an EV for nearly 3 years now and can't imagine ever going back to old fashioned internal combustion engines again. I can't stand driving my wife's new SUV. Even without the gas savings I've been getting by charging at home (@$200 a month for me) the acceleration and deacceleration performance is just night and day and so much more fun to drive compared to ICE cars IMO. I have never driving a car that is faster and more responsive - and I just have a crappy Chevy Bolt which is not nearly as fast as the base Tesla models.
I plan on getting a Model Y first of the year.
37
mell
2021 Aug 25, 1:12pm
Never liked automatic transmissions. So only convertibles with manual transmission.
38
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 Aug 25, 1:13pm
fdhfoiehfeoi
2021 Aug 25, 1:13pm
ohomen171 says
So your Tesla is an SUV? The gas mileage on those is pretty terrible, how many miles/kw are you getting? You should especially look at performance at higher mileage, as I've yet to hear of an electric car that's more efficient than a gasoline powered car at 55mph+. What are you repair/maintenance costs for that vehicle? We drive Honda's for the specific reason that we don't want to spend our lives paying for our cars. Lastly, what's the average lifespan of your vehicle? My current one is a 1998, about 160k miles, still running strong.
And I know you didn't mention the environment, but just a reminder that electricity is not produced by sucking up lightening bolts. It's comes from converting fossil fuels, which from a physics perspective means, you will never generate the same amount of energy for the same costs.
Lastly, was your Tesla battery made from blood-cadmium?
There is a piston engine car that is the analog of the Model X. It is far more expensive than the Model X to operate. Electric cars make sense.
So your Tesla is an SUV? The gas mileage on those is pretty terrible, how many miles/kw are you getting? You should especially look at performance at higher mileage, as I've yet to hear of an electric car that's more efficient than a gasoline powered car at 55mph+. What are you repair/maintenance costs for that vehicle? We drive Honda's for the specific reason that we don't want to spend our lives paying for our cars. Lastly, what's the average lifespan of your vehicle? My current one is a 1998, about 160k miles, still running strong.
And I know you didn't mention the environment, but just a reminder that electricity is not produced by sucking up lightening bolts. It's comes from converting fossil fuels, which from a physics perspective means, you will never generate the same amount of energy for the same costs.
Lastly, was your Tesla battery made from blood-cadmium?
39
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 1:15pm
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 1:15pm
BoomAndBustCycle says
Funny thing is: I never see anyone doing 0-60 in 5 seconds anywhere. Everybody drives like they have a fucking lawnmower engine in their 4,000 lbs car, taking forever to get up to a speed limit from a stop or traffic light. Same for taking fucking turns: you fucking German-engineered wonder can take that fucking off-ramp @50mph, why the fuck are you crawling it at 20?
find me a car that goes 0-60 in 5 seconds
Funny thing is: I never see anyone doing 0-60 in 5 seconds anywhere. Everybody drives like they have a fucking lawnmower engine in their 4,000 lbs car, taking forever to get up to a speed limit from a stop or traffic light. Same for taking fucking turns: you fucking German-engineered wonder can take that fucking off-ramp @50mph, why the fuck are you crawling it at 20?
40
socal2
2021 Aug 25, 1:55pm
Eric Holder says
I gun it at every chance I get. The torquey and smooth buttery acceleration NEVER gets old. No waiting for a turbo to wind up or dicking around with gears and transmissions.
No obnoxious engine noise or tire squealing and I can quickly slow down without using friction brakes recouping alot of that energy back into my battery with the electric motor regen.
Funny thing is: I never see anyone doing 0-60 in 5 seconds anywhere.
I gun it at every chance I get. The torquey and smooth buttery acceleration NEVER gets old. No waiting for a turbo to wind up or dicking around with gears and transmissions.
No obnoxious engine noise or tire squealing and I can quickly slow down without using friction brakes recouping alot of that energy back into my battery with the electric motor regen.
41
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 1:59pm
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 1:59pm
socal2 says
I'm yet to meet you on SFBA roads. =))
Every fucking EV is fucking crawling like the fucking Prius their owner used to have before it.
Eric Holder saysFunny thing is: I never see anyone doing 0-60 in 5 seconds anywhere.
I gun it at every chance I get.
I'm yet to meet you on SFBA roads. =))
Every fucking EV is fucking crawling like the fucking Prius their owner used to have before it.
42
socal2
2021 Aug 25, 2:03pm
Eric Holder says
Here in SoCal, I've noticed 2 types of EV drivers.
Type 1 - Old ladies, Liberal tree huggers and Asians who drive like grandma
Type 2 - Dudes like me who got an EV just for the performance
I'm yet to meet you on SFBA roads. =))
Every fucking EV is fucking crawling like the fucking Prius their owner used to have before it.
Here in SoCal, I've noticed 2 types of EV drivers.
Type 1 - Old ladies, Liberal tree huggers and Asians who drive like grandma
Type 2 - Dudes like me who got an EV just for the performance
43
EBGuy
2021 Aug 25, 2:13pm
Anyone else excited about the new Ford Maverick? I know, not an EV, but we could use a slight diversion. The inverters look kinda wimpy (2, 400W 110v outlets), though.
44
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 2:27pm
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 2:27pm
socal2 says
Non-starter in my world. 20 minutes isn't acceptable. I've been in and driven Teslas. It's not a knock on the car or the tech. They're fun. But I don't need acceleration which is literally its only benefit if I was into that. I need space and towing power. A Tesla can't remotely compete on any major category outside of acceleration for a family of 5.
I live in a rural area where it's probably 20 miles to the nearest super charger. Or I have to install a dedicated line in my home that would probably be $2k for it to be to code. My panel has space, but if someone doesn't it's probably closer to $5k to have the whole damn thing swapped out. I have no issue not pulling permits for electric work, but if you don't think municipalities aren't going to notice the new $40-100k car that needs to be plugged in, you're crazy.
Tesla may or may not last. I don't think they're bad cars. The market for them is pretty small though. It's a novelty and status thing. At some point they will reach market saturation. Just because there is a wait list just means their production situation is shitty. Kind of always has been with Tesla. I don't hate on anyone that wants one, just being realistic about what the average person needs. Tesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.
Believe you can get 80% charge in 20 minutes at a super charger.
Non-starter in my world. 20 minutes isn't acceptable. I've been in and driven Teslas. It's not a knock on the car or the tech. They're fun. But I don't need acceleration which is literally its only benefit if I was into that. I need space and towing power. A Tesla can't remotely compete on any major category outside of acceleration for a family of 5.
I live in a rural area where it's probably 20 miles to the nearest super charger. Or I have to install a dedicated line in my home that would probably be $2k for it to be to code. My panel has space, but if someone doesn't it's probably closer to $5k to have the whole damn thing swapped out. I have no issue not pulling permits for electric work, but if you don't think municipalities aren't going to notice the new $40-100k car that needs to be plugged in, you're crazy.
Tesla may or may not last. I don't think they're bad cars. The market for them is pretty small though. It's a novelty and status thing. At some point they will reach market saturation. Just because there is a wait list just means their production situation is shitty. Kind of always has been with Tesla. I don't hate on anyone that wants one, just being realistic about what the average person needs. Tesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.
45
socal2
2021 Aug 25, 2:47pm
WookieMan says
It's definitely not a utility vehicle if you need something bigger to haul people and stuff around. Should be interesting to see how the Cybertruck competes with the F150's when it comes out next year.
WookieMan says
If you have to rely on charging away from your home, I wouldn't recommend an EV right now. I have a 220V 30amp outlet in my garage for my dryer where I can plug into that using the stock charger that came with the car. It is so nice and convenient plugging in at my garage and having a full tank in the morning.
WookieMan says
I know I live in EV Mecca in an affluent community in SoCal where Tesla's are everywhere biasing my view, but I saw a bunch while I was in Indiana last month visiting family.
I just don't see the future in ICE cars. Can't stand all the nerfed 4 cylinder engines, even the ones with Turbos don't hold a candle to my Bolt and the cheapest Tesla blows away the Bolt in terms of performance.
Non-starter in my world. 20 minutes isn't acceptable. I've been in and driven Teslas. It's not a knock on the car or the tech. They're fun. But I don't need acceleration which is literally its only benefit if I was into that. I need space and towing power. A Tesla can't remotely compete on any major category outside of acceleration for a family of 5.
It's definitely not a utility vehicle if you need something bigger to haul people and stuff around. Should be interesting to see how the Cybertruck competes with the F150's when it comes out next year.
WookieMan says
I live in a rural area where it's probably 20 miles to the nearest super charger. Or I have to install a dedicated line in my home that would probably be $2k for it to be to code. My panel has space, but if someone doesn't it's probably closer to $5k to have the whole damn thing swapped out. I have no issue not pulling permits for electric work, but if you don't think municipalities aren't going to notice the new $40-100k car that needs to be plugged in, you're crazy.
If you have to rely on charging away from your home, I wouldn't recommend an EV right now. I have a 220V 30amp outlet in my garage for my dryer where I can plug into that using the stock charger that came with the car. It is so nice and convenient plugging in at my garage and having a full tank in the morning.
WookieMan says
Tesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.
I know I live in EV Mecca in an affluent community in SoCal where Tesla's are everywhere biasing my view, but I saw a bunch while I was in Indiana last month visiting family.
I just don't see the future in ICE cars. Can't stand all the nerfed 4 cylinder engines, even the ones with Turbos don't hold a candle to my Bolt and the cheapest Tesla blows away the Bolt in terms of performance.
46
TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter
2021 Aug 25, 3:03pm
TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter
2021 Aug 25, 3:03pm
There's EV chargers at almost every Wawa here in Central Florida.
For Cybertruck, it might be great for contractors dragging a heavy trailer mostly locally, in a 20-30 mile radius. It wouldn't be great for somebody who operates in a larger, rural area.
For Cybertruck, it might be great for contractors dragging a heavy trailer mostly locally, in a 20-30 mile radius. It wouldn't be great for somebody who operates in a larger, rural area.
47
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 3:13pm
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 3:13pm
socal2 says
It can't. I've got a Sequoia which sits on a Tundra chassis, which is better than an F-150. I just towed ~3k with my trailer and almost got into an accident forgetting it was attached. Cybertruck won't come out of the gate able to do that. 100%
Tesla has a long way to go regarding hauling. And no, obviously I haven't driven a Cybertruck, but payload alone will drain the battery at a much faster rate. I don't think there's much debate there.
I don't dislike Teslas, but it's a niche market. It's a status symbol thing or urban dwellers that don't travel but want a car. People are moving out of urban areas at a clip not seen since the 50's. I don't play individual stocks and have done zero research on TSLA as a stock, but my gut says shorts might win the day. When a town the size I live in is adding fiber internet to a subdivision you take note. A Tesla is not practical where I live if you have to go to work.
I also think we've talked before about this. I'm an A to B guy. I give zero shits if it's fast or not. Power windows, AC/heat and a radio are all I need. My Versa was manual and fun to drive honestly. I've got the Armada now and we have a new Sequoia with V8's. They're fast enough for how big they are. ICE vehicles will never go away in our lifetime. Tesla had the advantage of 90% of parts already being engineered. They're still in the Model T phase of battery making though. Just because they're top dog doesn't mean it's good.
Should be interesting to see how the Cybertruck competes with the F150's when it comes out next year.
It can't. I've got a Sequoia which sits on a Tundra chassis, which is better than an F-150. I just towed ~3k with my trailer and almost got into an accident forgetting it was attached. Cybertruck won't come out of the gate able to do that. 100%
Tesla has a long way to go regarding hauling. And no, obviously I haven't driven a Cybertruck, but payload alone will drain the battery at a much faster rate. I don't think there's much debate there.
I don't dislike Teslas, but it's a niche market. It's a status symbol thing or urban dwellers that don't travel but want a car. People are moving out of urban areas at a clip not seen since the 50's. I don't play individual stocks and have done zero research on TSLA as a stock, but my gut says shorts might win the day. When a town the size I live in is adding fiber internet to a subdivision you take note. A Tesla is not practical where I live if you have to go to work.
I also think we've talked before about this. I'm an A to B guy. I give zero shits if it's fast or not. Power windows, AC/heat and a radio are all I need. My Versa was manual and fun to drive honestly. I've got the Armada now and we have a new Sequoia with V8's. They're fast enough for how big they are. ICE vehicles will never go away in our lifetime. Tesla had the advantage of 90% of parts already being engineered. They're still in the Model T phase of battery making though. Just because they're top dog doesn't mean it's good.
48
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 3:29pm
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 25, 3:29pm
socal2 says
Point being: 0-60 time is practically irrelevant to the most of the buying public. Even for car enthusiasts really. Sure there are some who value it (and quarter mile time) above all else, but then there are Miata/Lotus/BRZ people who value light weight and handling characteristics which come with it over acceleration alone.
Eric Holder saysI'm yet to meet you on SFBA roads. =))
Every fucking EV is fucking crawling like the fucking Prius their owner used to have before it.
Here in SoCal, I've noticed 2 types of EV drivers.
Type 1 - Old ladies, Liberal tree huggers and Asians who drive like grandma
Type 2 - Dudes like me who got an EV just for the performance
Point being: 0-60 time is practically irrelevant to the most of the buying public. Even for car enthusiasts really. Sure there are some who value it (and quarter mile time) above all else, but then there are Miata/Lotus/BRZ people who value light weight and handling characteristics which come with it over acceleration alone.
49
socal2
2021 Aug 25, 3:46pm
WookieMan says
I think the Cybertruck will blow most trucks away in terms of towing capacity and keeping up speed, but you are right about battery depletion. They claim that the extra weight of towing something will increase the regen to help replenish the battery. Will be interesting to see. I wager over 98% of the pickups I see on the road aren't hauling anything heavier than the gas tank. My company has a fleet of F150's, E250's and Sprinter vans doing day trips through SoCal (less than 200 miles a day). And we spend a fortune on maintenance for transmission work, brakes, fuel pumps, and then all of the maintenance with frequent oil and filter changes.
WookieMan says
I am not sure about this. Tesla designed their own chips, engineered their own metal alloys, developed never before cooling systems with the "Octo-valve" and are revolutionizing manufacturing using the biggest casting machines ever built eliminating thousands of individual parts and hours of labor. Not to mention they will be the biggest battery manufacturer in the world owning their own lithium mines. They don't outsource much being almost completely vertically integrated and are now likely the biggest AI company in the world with all of their software development for self driving cars.
Tesla has a long way to go regarding hauling. And no, obviously I haven't driven a Cybertruck, but payload alone will drain the battery at a much faster rate. I don't think there's much debate there.
I think the Cybertruck will blow most trucks away in terms of towing capacity and keeping up speed, but you are right about battery depletion. They claim that the extra weight of towing something will increase the regen to help replenish the battery. Will be interesting to see. I wager over 98% of the pickups I see on the road aren't hauling anything heavier than the gas tank. My company has a fleet of F150's, E250's and Sprinter vans doing day trips through SoCal (less than 200 miles a day). And we spend a fortune on maintenance for transmission work, brakes, fuel pumps, and then all of the maintenance with frequent oil and filter changes.
WookieMan says
Tesla had the advantage of 90% of parts already being engineered.
I am not sure about this. Tesla designed their own chips, engineered their own metal alloys, developed never before cooling systems with the "Octo-valve" and are revolutionizing manufacturing using the biggest casting machines ever built eliminating thousands of individual parts and hours of labor. Not to mention they will be the biggest battery manufacturer in the world owning their own lithium mines. They don't outsource much being almost completely vertically integrated and are now likely the biggest AI company in the world with all of their software development for self driving cars.
50
EBGuy
2021 Aug 25, 4:06pm
socal2 says
Ford Maverick truck will get 40mpg in city and will be able to tow 2,000 lbs. Towing capacity goes to 4,000 lbs when you move away from the hybrid model. Will be interesting see if they have any fleet interest. Not bad for under $20k.
My company has a fleet of F150's, E250's and Sprinter vans doing day trips through SoCal (less than 200 miles a day). And we spend a fortune on maintenance for transmission work, brakes, fuel pumps, and then all of the maintenance with frequent oil and filter changes.
Ford Maverick truck will get 40mpg in city and will be able to tow 2,000 lbs. Towing capacity goes to 4,000 lbs when you move away from the hybrid model. Will be interesting see if they have any fleet interest. Not bad for under $20k.
51
TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter
2021 Aug 25, 5:37pm
TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter
2021 Aug 25, 5:37pm
Cybertruck pulls about 10,000lb. in the double motor model, which has pre-sold the most. 7500 in the single motor.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery
52
Booger
2021 Aug 25, 5:40pm
Booger
2021 Aug 25, 5:40pm
MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says
They have Wawa in Florida?
There's EV chargers at almost every Wawa here in Central Florida.
They have Wawa in Florida?
53
TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter
2021 Aug 25, 5:49pm
TheAntiPanicanLearingCenter
2021 Aug 25, 5:49pm
Booger says
They didn't have any/many about a decade ago. Now They're widespread, at least in Central Florida.
Publix Subs are still the main ingredient for "Florida Man", though.
They have Wawa in Florida?
They didn't have any/many about a decade ago. Now They're widespread, at least in Central Florida.
Publix Subs are still the main ingredient for "Florida Man", though.
54
RandalRay
2021 Aug 25, 5:56pm
Add in the cost factor of around $1400. For replacing tires every 11,000 miles due to the weight of a Tesla and your cost benefit analysis is greatly reduced.
55
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 6:15pm
WookieMan
2021 Aug 25, 6:15pm
MisdemeanorRebellionNoCoupForYou says
We'll see what the government regulates safety wise. Towing shit is a dangerous game as the average person has no clue what they're doing. They just buy a trailer or camper and throw shit in/on it with no regards to the people behind them or themselves. Overweight trailers and undersized tow vehicles fuck people up everyday. Can't go off Tesla specs until they start getting Cybertruck on the road in mass quantities.
10k pounds is likely not realistic. Batteries are heavy, but from what I've seen it's not that long of a truck. You need heavy weight up front or a longer wheel base. I don't see it towing 10k lbs. I also don't think it's being made for people that want to tow anything anyway. You'd be lucky to get 150 miles on a full charge with a legit load of even 5k lbs. Most people tow heavy stuff or a camper. It's not practical for the cost either even if it potentially could tow 10k. Gas could hit $5 and it still wouldn't make sense for the cost and time lost charging. Electric has a ways to go.
socal2 says
Yes, it was all engineered before them and they're doing it in house. Good for them. The 5% of work they had to do was nice as 95% of previous automotive engineers did the work for them and they copied it. No different than Apple. Doesn't make them a bad company, but they're not doing groundbreaking stuff. Musk was able to market the brand and publicly sell shares and use OPM to make himself wealthy. Business 101.
Cybertruck pulls about 10,000lb. in the double motor model, which has pre-sold the most. 7500 in the single motor.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery
We'll see what the government regulates safety wise. Towing shit is a dangerous game as the average person has no clue what they're doing. They just buy a trailer or camper and throw shit in/on it with no regards to the people behind them or themselves. Overweight trailers and undersized tow vehicles fuck people up everyday. Can't go off Tesla specs until they start getting Cybertruck on the road in mass quantities.
10k pounds is likely not realistic. Batteries are heavy, but from what I've seen it's not that long of a truck. You need heavy weight up front or a longer wheel base. I don't see it towing 10k lbs. I also don't think it's being made for people that want to tow anything anyway. You'd be lucky to get 150 miles on a full charge with a legit load of even 5k lbs. Most people tow heavy stuff or a camper. It's not practical for the cost either even if it potentially could tow 10k. Gas could hit $5 and it still wouldn't make sense for the cost and time lost charging. Electric has a ways to go.
socal2 says
I am not sure about this. Tesla designed their own chips, engineered their own metal alloys, developed never before cooling systems with the "Octo-valve" and are revolutionizing manufacturing using the biggest casting machines ever built eliminating thousands of individual parts and hours of labor.
Yes, it was all engineered before them and they're doing it in house. Good for them. The 5% of work they had to do was nice as 95% of previous automotive engineers did the work for them and they copied it. No different than Apple. Doesn't make them a bad company, but they're not doing groundbreaking stuff. Musk was able to market the brand and publicly sell shares and use OPM to make himself wealthy. Business 101.
56
HeadSet
2021 Aug 25, 6:23pm
HeadSet
2021 Aug 25, 6:23pm
EBGuy says
Thanks for the Ford Maverick tip. I'll need to check one out when they hit the dealers.
Anyone else excited about the new Ford Maverick? I know, not an EV, but we could use a slight diversion. The inverters look kinda wimpy (2, 400W 110v outlets), though.
Thanks for the Ford Maverick tip. I'll need to check one out when they hit the dealers.
57
Tenpoundbass
2021 Aug 25, 9:52pm
Tenpoundbass
2021 Aug 25, 9:52pm
Booger says
We have them down here. It's apparently a destination for a gas station sandwich. If you ever hanker for that sorta thing.
They have Wawa in Florida?
We have them down here. It's apparently a destination for a gas station sandwich. If you ever hanker for that sorta thing.
58
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 26, 1:05pm
Eric_Holder
2021 Aug 26, 1:05pm
Looks like somebody is getting a brand new battery:
GM announced that it has issued a recall on every single Chevy Bolt made to date due to the battery fire risk. The move comes after two previous recalls, which were aimed at specific models.
The Bolt was first recalled in November after five cars that hadn’t been in crashes caught fire. After investigating the problem further, Chevy recalled a second batch in July. The problem was traced to two manufacturing defects that could occur simultaneously. The defects—a torn anode tab and a folded separator—created conditions that could lead to a short in affected cells. So far, the company has identified 10 fires that involve faulty batteries, according to an AP report.
This third and latest recall includes 73,000 Bolts made from 2019 to 2022, the current model year, and brings the total recall to nearly 142,000 cars, with over 100,000 having been sold in the US. GM estimates that the initial recalls will cost $800 million, and it expects the new one to add $1 billion to the total. GM said it will be seeking reimbursement from LG. […]
Until replacement batteries are ready and service appointments can be scheduled, GM has recommended that Bolt owners park their vehicles outside and limit their battery’s state of charge to 90 percent or lower. The company also recommended not letting the estimated range dip below 70 miles. GM says it is working with LG Chem to ramp up production of the replacement cells.
Earlier this month, President Biden signed an executive order that sets a goal of making half of all new cars sold by 2030 electric.
more here:
https://www.consumerreports.or...oncerns-a3566085147/
59
BoomAndBustCycle
2021 Aug 26, 4:04pm
WookieMan says
We only use a car for pleasure and commuting. But absolutely need easy to clean pleather seats vs fabric..(we are messy and have a messy kid). I also am into convenience and tech features. I would imagine a lot of people fit that mold. In that case, Tesla model 3 is best bang for your buck. Try pricing out a new Honda Civic with pleather and the same features a Tesla Model 3. Who wouldn’t prefer the Tesla when your talking a $5k difference.
Tesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.
We only use a car for pleasure and commuting. But absolutely need easy to clean pleather seats vs fabric..(we are messy and have a messy kid). I also am into convenience and tech features. I would imagine a lot of people fit that mold. In that case, Tesla model 3 is best bang for your buck. Try pricing out a new Honda Civic with pleather and the same features a Tesla Model 3. Who wouldn’t prefer the Tesla when your talking a $5k difference.
60
Eman
2021 Aug 26, 4:12pm
Eman
2021 Aug 26, 4:12pm
RandalRay says
What kind of Tesla do you have, or is this hearsay? I own a Model S for 4 years now. Replaced the tires twice at around 25k miles.
Add in the cost factor of around $1400. For replacing tires every 11,000 miles due to the weight of a Tesla and your cost benefit analysis is greatly reduced.
What kind of Tesla do you have, or is this hearsay? I own a Model S for 4 years now. Replaced the tires twice at around 25k miles.
61
Eman
2021 Aug 26, 4:18pm
Eman
2021 Aug 26, 4:18pm
FuckCCP89 says
He’s getting ripped off at 19 cents. We get billed 13.6 cents for off-peak charging from PG&E here. I also get free charge from Tesla here and there when it’s convenient.
zzyzzx saysohomen171 saysWe are charged 19 cents US per kilowatt-hour of electricity consumed.
At that price I hope that you are generating all or almost all of your electricity.
Believe it or not, this is considered cheap in CA.
He’s getting ripped off at 19 cents. We get billed 13.6 cents for off-peak charging from PG&E here. I also get free charge from Tesla here and there when it’s convenient.
62
WookieMan
2021 Aug 26, 4:21pm
WookieMan
2021 Aug 26, 4:21pm
BoomAndBustCycle says
Seat covers and floor mats exists. You're not factoring in charging. Realistically if you drive the thing it needs a 220 connection outside or in the garage. Not common. If you don't think your city or municipality is watching you, wrong. Permits and fees for a licensed electrician will run you $3k in almost any muni for a 60' run and box. Everyone always gets there take. EV's are not cheaper. This has been proven.
WookieMan saysTesla only delivers for a small percentage of the population.
We only use a car for pleasure and commuting. But absolutely need easy to clean pleather seats vs fabric..(we are messy and have a messy kid). I also am into convenience and tech features. I would imagine a lot of people fit that mold. In that case, Tesla model 3 is best bang for your buck. Try pricing out a new Honda Civic with pleather and the same features a Tesla Model 3. Who wouldn’t prefer the Tesla when your talking a $5k difference.
Seat covers and floor mats exists. You're not factoring in charging. Realistically if you drive the thing it needs a 220 connection outside or in the garage. Not common. If you don't think your city or municipality is watching you, wrong. Permits and fees for a licensed electrician will run you $3k in almost any muni for a 60' run and box. Everyone always gets there take. EV's are not cheaper. This has been proven.
63
socal2
2021 Aug 26, 4:23pm
Eric Holder says
My Bolt is leased and it is up in December. So I am not going to bother.
I'm thinking about leasing a Tesla for the next 3 years to make sure they got all the bugs flushed out. I get a car allowance for work and they don't want us keeping cars beyond 5 years if we get both the monthly stipend and mileage reimbursement for work travel.
Looks like somebody is getting a brand new battery:
My Bolt is leased and it is up in December. So I am not going to bother.
I'm thinking about leasing a Tesla for the next 3 years to make sure they got all the bugs flushed out. I get a car allowance for work and they don't want us keeping cars beyond 5 years if we get both the monthly stipend and mileage reimbursement for work travel.
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From twelve midnight until 3:00 PM (15:00) we can charge electric cars, run the dishwasher, wash clothes, etc. We are charged 19 cents US per kilowatt-hour of electricity consumed.
I focused on the recent charging of our Tesla Model X that consumed roughly 100-kilowatt hours of electricity. We were able to charge the battery all the way up and give the vehicle a range of 355 miles for a cost of $19.00 US. I pointed out to Elena that if we had a large piston engine, the cost to fill the tank with gasoline (petrol) would have been over $50.00. We are saving $31.00 with each full charge to the Tesla batteries.
Elena has a rare talent for asking brilliant questions and finding holes in arguments. She argued that this electric vehicle was much more expensive than a similar gas-powered vehicle. She asked how long it would take to make up the cost difference.
I accepted her argument at first. I thought about it long and hard. The Tesla Model X started life with a price tag of $160,000 in the US. By the time we bought this car last December, the price had dropped to $75,000 US stripped. The model we bought came in at $100,000 US.
I am quite familiar with the high-end SUVs sold by Cadillac. They are the same size, passenger capacity, and cargo hauling capacity as the Model X. Their prices range from $87,000 US to $100,000 US. There is a piston engine car that is the analog of the Model X. It is far more expensive than the Model X to operate. Electric cars make sense. Please watch the passage of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. I am hearing serious talk of a $12,000 US tax credit when one buys a new electric vehicle.