patrick.net

Zak says

Robert Sproul says

You are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported

Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?

1) You have to take each individual and establish their risk wrt their co-morbidities (age doesn't matter much unless there are age-related co-morbidities)
2) Establish whether prior infection has occurred - if there is any trace of antibodies it has and the vaccination is unnecessary and dangerous.
3) Given the assumption infection has not occurred yet, calculate the risk of infection (depends a lot on lifestyle)
4) Calculate the risk of death following infection on wrt readyness of effective (also prophylactic) treatments readily available via mail such as Ivermectin, HCQ + Zinc etc. - which will lower ifr drastically since the vast majority of "recorded covid deaths" have not received any treatment in the hospital
5) Match up the calculated probability of infection plus death against the death rate from the vaccine and plus most SAE and the ability of the vaccine to prevent infection plus death (which may be very poor wrt the now dominating mutations)
6) Match up personal preference of risking death by infection instead of suffering from possibly life-long unwanted side-effect (which may or may not be classified as SAE)
7) Come to a final decision

It's different for every individual but makes the vaccine a losing proposition for the majority of individuals imo, esp. an unapproved experimental biological agent. Things may change if ever a traditional real vaccine based on weakened or dead viral strains will be available (if ever), but that's where we're at for now.

And this montage doesn't show our very own Health Secretary Psychopath.

richwicks says

FFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.

Ahahahahaha.. more fail.
not trying to change your mind.. keep refusing to post numbers.
Thog say: "your numbers wrong.. but my numbers secret!"

bwahahaa....

So scared. so easy to call bs on. look at your 3 paragraph story to distract from how scared you are.
haahhahaaha

Tenpoundbass says

And this montage doesn't show our very own Health Secretary Psychopath

ahahhaah more scared... more fail..

more afraid to post a number they can say is accurate

ahhahahahaa.. adults acting like children scared to say what they believe...

ooh a meme!!! way to avoid any commitment with a funny picture.. lol...
You're like a leftist NPC meme

Hey, don't ask me for a hard answer, I'll pout like a reddit teenager with memes!!

LOL!!

@mell

lol
q: how do we adjust this number to account for X

mell: so in paris they have tacos that are mexican tacos, but made by a aprisian, so to understand the temperature of a butterfly fart in bolivia we have to think about the individual circumstances!!!

LOL!!! fucking funny

Let them speak, Patrick! Gas Chamber Guards need love, too!

yay!! hard question gets spam brigaded again

GOGOGO
@mell
@tenpoundbass
@rickwicks

YES, your bloviation is JUST AS GOOD as anything resembling an on topic discussion because you can just spew bullshit and avoid answering a question.

Bravo. You have truly shown that you are intelligent and relevant with your no added value sophomoric commentary!

Don't trust anything! No I can't tell you what is wrong with that, but trust me, it's wrong!

No I can't say how much it is wrong by... it just is! People tell me that!!

Lol.

@Patrick.. is this really what is fanning your flames?

I might just be speaking to an empty house here anyway! Lol.

Zak says

@mell

lol
q: how do we adjust this number to account for X

mell: so in paris they have tacos that are mexican tacos, but made by a aprisian, so to understand the temperature of a butterfly fart in bolivia we have to think about the individual circumstances!!!

LOL!!! fucking funny

Medicine is tailored to the individual. Rarely do blanket vaccinations make sense, notable exceptions are smallpox where a 30% ifr and (back then) a decent risk of infection made sense to vaccinate everyone who never had it. And almost nobody objected. Similarly for tetanus. It's the same reason not everybody is mandated to ride in a car seat, only children. It doesn't make sense for adults, even though they may save a few. All people are saying is inoculation with an experimental biological agent where the math doesn't work out for most should be optional.

Zak says

richwicks says

FFS. If I say "I don't know" fucking believe me.

Ahahahahaha.. more fail.

I print out a lengthy explanation, and you always respond to a single sentence.

Why should I think you are taking any effort in having an honest constructive conversation to me? You've done this twice.

Zak says

YES, your bloviation is JUST AS GOOD as anything resembling an on topic discussion because you can just spew bullshit and avoid answering a question.

Hmm, you're one to talk when you respond this way:

https://www.patrick.net/post/1340310/?comment_id=1770010

To this response:

https://www.patrick.net/post/1340310/?comment_id=1769990

Your only goal is to waste people's time, not to actually think or challenge opinion and you go through the absolute minimum effort to do this.

Still, as a matter of principle, I very rarely place anybody on ignore.

mell says

Rarely do blanket vaccinations make sense,

Keep going.. This is super entertaining watching you try to spew complete bullshit and sound like you have some relevant reason to not talk about the numbers.
Yes.. Car seats!! I won't give numbers because Car seats!!

Once you see it its fucking hilarious.

Zak says

mell says

Rarely do blanket vaccinations make sense,

Keep going.. This is super entertaining watching you try to spew complete bullshit and sound like you have some relevant reason to not talk about the numbers.
Yes.. Car seats!! I won't give numbers because Car seats!!

Once you see it its fucking hilarious.

Why do you trust your government, your media, and "authorities" promoted by them?

Zak says

So scared

We're not scared. This is why we view the vaccine as pointless at best, detrimental at worst.

Are you sars-cov2-19 positive? Let's have a beer while you cough and hack in my face. I'm pretty certain I'll survive.

I'm still waiting to see that weapons of mass destruction program in Iraq that we couldn't wait for the final proof to come in the form of a mushroom cloud. They murdered between 100,000 and 1 million people over that - we don't know because Rumsfeld famously stated "we don't do body counts". These are the assholes you are telling me to listen to.

Why do you continue to listen to them? We have had Sars, Mers, a bunch of fake pandemics, for 20 years - why should I believe this is the real deal, when they've lied to me so many times before? They have no credibility with me. Why do you consider them credible?

But I expect you won't read this, you will simply respond to my first sentence: "Why do you trust your government, your media, and "authorities" promoted by them?"

Zak says

Robert Sproul says

You are assuming here that the risks from the vaccine are only the short term risks we have heard about so far, and which are pretty obviously grossly underreported

Ok Robert: How should we modify the assumptions?

Yeah well, MY assumptions are going to be that doing away with animal challenge studies (which apparently all previous mRNA “vaccines” failed) and cutting the development time from years to months, and providing the felonious drug companies complete immunity from liability, creates the conditions for an inherently unsafe product.
They will have to prove otherwise to me over the course of the next several years.

"Operation Warp Speed" it sounds like an 80's Metallica tour.

richwicks says

This "pandemic" is cover for something. I suspect economic reset, but engh, I don't know. I'll find out in time, but it's not about a disease.

You are dead right about that.

Zak says

Also, you are hearing that "the vaccine isn't safe" . How do you know that's not a lie? How unsafe is it? Shouldn't the people you are listening to telling you that the CDC is lying and there is no reason to take the vaccine do this bare minimum step to show you what these numbers are?

Zak,

Covid has become a religion. How do you combat people's beliefs? The fact that we've experienced so many lies plus all the censoring should be enough to simply forget about the whole thing and celebrate freedom. What's so bad about freedom? This is what the whole point is imo.

I think there is an incredible amount of leftist anger at the 51% of the country that voted for Trump the first time, and the 52% that voted for him the second time, and they want to make all those millions of people suffer for trying to escape the oppression of the oligarchy.

They don't want anyone to forget their anger and are happy to suppress basic Constitutional rights like freedom of assembly and freedom of speech lest the majority of the country vote to escape the oligarchy once again.

WineHorror1 says

Covid has become a religion

They do seem like Covid Fanatics. And if I am Vaccine Hesitant they are Vaccine Zealots.

Zak says

This is the odd thing to me. You say you don't know, but something must be wrong. But you're sure its wrong in one way vs the other??? Why?

"They" have lied to us in the past. Yes.
"They" have also told us the truth in the past.

Why is this time different. What is your evidence that you are saying these numbers are incorrect. What number does the evidence indicate to you IS correct????

Do you believe ANYONE is dying of Covid? So is it 10 people? 100? 100,000???

If you just don't know, and are scared, why are you scared of the jab, and not of the virus?

There are doctors (not just on TV, i know doctors personally) dealing with this virus. Have you asked your doctor??
Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?

Are you just objecting to a number someone puts up because of talk radio or something? Why do you trust that???

I ask this question in this way because it is fucking HARD to think about, and come up with a number...

I have education in a field that is related to biochemistry, and I work in that field. As I said, I don't know the number. I don't have evidence to think one way or another, and as a scientist, I can not just pull numbers out of my ass. I don't know how covid spreads. My friends at top schools in US say that they think that CDC is full of shit with respect to their ideas how covid spreads, and I concur. How will talking to doctors help, let me know? It will be anecdotal, just like my experience. I got covid myself, and it was 25 days AFTER I got a fucking covid shot - how does this correlate with reality from TV and CDC? How does it correlate with fact that 2 months BEFORE I got covid shot, I was in car for 3 hours with my neighbor who went down with covid a day later, and I did not get covid then??? I had 3 students come down with covid last year, and did not get fucking covid then, only AFTER the shot? How does THAT correlate with CDC? Where do you want me to look for the numbers if I KNOW that a lot of PCR tests were false positives due to number of cycles (too many) that they run? Should we just pull numbers out of our asses? And I do not watch TV or listen to radio, but I do try to follow SCIENCE! about this, but SCIENCE! does not provide numbers for illnesses/deaths, that is politics.

Bd6r says

Where do you want me to look for the numbers if I KNOW that a lot of PCR tests were false positives due to number of cycles (too many) that they run?

https://patrick.net/post/1340335/2021-07-29-cdc-quietly-withdraws-emergency-use-aut

CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization for PCR Test Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza

Patrick says

CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization for PCR Test Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza

that explains "lack" of flu deaths last year. But again, due to social distancing this number was likely somewhat lower than in normal years so it is not clear how many flu deaths were counted as covid deaths.

Patrick says

I think there is an incredible amount of leftist anger at the 51% of the country that voted for Trump the first time, and the 52% that voted for him the second time, and they want to make all those millions of people suffer for trying to escape the oppression of the oligarchy.

They don't want anyone to forget their anger and are happy to suppress basic Constitutional rights like freedom of assembly and freedom of speech lest the majority of the country vote to escape the oligarchy once again.

It's NOT leftist anger.

It's authoritarians that are pissed off. The "leftists" are just useful idiots. They don't know, don't condemn them, we are all subject to propaganda and fall victim to it. They are the last true believers. They believe they have control over the government and control it. They are naive, they aren't stupid, they aren't morons, they just don't understand they on on leash by a despotic, out of control, oligarchy. They are simply ignorant.

Zak says

I keep trying to ask this, but what is it about the shot that you think is MORE dangerous than Covid?

There is nothing anyone can do to guarantee they won’t become infected with an airborne virus. In other words no matter what you do, as long as you are breathing you have some non-zero risk of a viral infection.

On the other hand taking a jab is like playing Russian roulette. Eventually someone ends up with a .357 size entry wound, that is unless they refuse the pull the trigger. Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

It is unknown what my real risk of either the jab or another viral infection is, but I can reduce my risk of injury by the jab to zero.

PeopleUnited says

Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

This.

I've heard plenty about people who got blood clots or died from the jab. Then when my wife's co-worker dropped dead, we were both deeply spooked.

I don't know anyone who got seriously ill from the disease.

Zak says

post what numbers you believe

30+ positive tests of close friends and family. Only one got ill and went to a doc (not ER or ICU) and they had him quit the high THC pot here in IL that's legal to help his lungs. He was also fat. He was down for 2 weeks. Boo hoo, cry me a river. The others lost sense of smell and had the sniffles no different than a typical flu. Oh the horror. Let me take some medicine that our own government hasn't approved. Logical solution.... said no one with a brain.

There's really not much discussion to be had here on this topic. You have no solid ground to stand on.

WookieMan says

There's really not much discussion to be had here on this topic. You have no solid ground to stand on.

If this is so then post what death numbers you think are attributeable to covid, and what are attributable to the vaccine. I'm not hiding behind anything. I put out there what I believe.

Why are you scared?

Patrick says

This.

I've heard plenty about people who got blood clots or died from the jab.

So you believe all these people are dying from the jab, and none from covid.. fine.. put up the numbers you believe.

How many people do you believe died from covid in the US?

From the jab?

WookieMan says

30+ positive tests of close friends and family.

So your numbers are you think 30 people in the country got sick and no one died from Covid?

Is that your belief? If not, please correct me.

How many do you think died from covid?

How many from the jab?

PeopleUnited says

Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

Perfect. I agree with this. So given that, how many people do you believe have died from covid?

How many people do you believe have died from the jab?

I don't get it. It's not like I'm asking any of you to sign a contract stating you will leave the internet if your numbers are wrong. Just estimate.

How many people do you think have died from covid, and how many from the jab!?!

It's a very straightforward question. You all are eager to tell me that the numbers I put up are incorrect. Fine! What do you think the correct numbers are!?!!?

I'm not even asking you to JUSTIFY what you think your numbers are... just whatever anecdotal claptrap you feel has any sort of realness to it in your head!

What are you afraid I will tell you you're wrong????

Just say what you think the numbers are.. Its easy.. the number keys are right above all those letters you relentlessly press while avoiding the question.
reach up there and press a few digits that indicate how many you think are dead due to either cause. Guess! What FEELS right to you!?!?

Zak says

PeopleUnited says

Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

Perfect. I agree with this. So given that, how many people do you believe have died from covid?

How many people do you believe have died from the jab?

https://youtu.be/4EgcQz6SRLU

You must ask the right questions. (And of course we need to seek honest answers to these questions if we are to make educated choices)

1. Where did this virus originate?
2. Are there effective treatments and preventative measures that reduce morbidly and mortality?
3. How many of those who died could have been saved with effective medical treatment?
4. Why do we need a risky injection if there are other effective preventative measures and therapeutics?
5. Instead of promoting risky injections why not focus on reducing risk by focusing efforts and spending to promote healthy lifestyles, nutritious food, exercise etc...?
6. Instead of promoting risky injections to people who do not want them, why not focus on developing an injection with zero risk, that actually works?
7. Do health officials think we will trust their recommendations when they lied about the efficacy of masks and continue to do so?
8. When will this so called pandemic be over?
9. How many people have suffered morbidity and mortality because of lockdowns, loss of work, jabs and other questionable policies implemented to “stop the spread?”
10. If we had just let the virus run it’s course, used known therapeutics as needed and gone on with our lives in January 2020 with essentially no changes In lifestyle, rules or regulations, could we have had a better result than what we have now?
11. Why is it ok for a woman to refuse to carry a baby to term, but not ok to refuse to take an experimental injection?
12. When did COVID become an emergency?
13. When will the so called emergency be over?
14. Is it possible that production and EUA of the experimental injections are motivated by some other reason than reducing morbidity and mortality?
15. Why are producers of vaccines exempt from liability for injuries caused by the use of vaccines?
16. Is this virus mutating and if so what factors are influencing these mutations?
17. With the rate of mutation is this virus becoming more dangerous or less dangerous over time?
18. With the rate of mutation is it even possible to develop a safe and effective vaccine?

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus, and I think about 50,000 have died from the jab so far (number from both Dr. McCullough and from that deposition by the programmer with access to government stats).

But I suspect that the number dying from the jab directly may be greatly eclipsed by ADE.

Looks like all the forefingers dying for Chinese vaccine as per CCP rap song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7iBoIU6ppE
Get jabbed .. with Chinese vaccine...feel lucky..

Patrick says

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus,

How many of those deaths could have been prevented by use of therapeutics such as Ivermectin and HCQ/zinc?

Patrick says

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus, and I think about 50,000 have died from the jab so far

Patrick.. Thank you. I respect that you can actually put up the data you think is appropriate.

Does anyone else agree or disagree with patrick?

As a reminder, the numbers I put up were 400-700k covid and 5,000-50,000 for the jab.

Do you agree with the assessment that about 30 million - 40 million people have been infected in the US?

Do you agree that about 160 million have been vaccinated?

Zak says

Patrick says

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus, and I think about 50,000 have died from the jab so far

Patrick.. Thank you. I respect that you can actually put up the data you think is appropriate.

Does anyone else agree or disagree with patrick?

As a reminder, the numbers I put up were 400-700k covid and 5,000-50,000 for the jab.

It is hard to know. We can always find a case:
1) The person would have been saved if he had vaccine.
2) A person would have lived longer if didn't have vaccine.

The biggest issues behind vaccine is that most here think that "virus and vaccine" were both created for profit and now vaccine is forced down our collective throats to increase profits.
The vaccine didn't go through proper trials and released hastily for profits and nobody knows the long term impacts. Why do this in urgency when you can wait and study its long term impacts properly.

farmer2021 says

It is hard to know. We can always find a case:
1) The person would have been saved if he had vaccine.
2) A person would have lived longer if didn't have vaccin

I don't disagree. But CDC numbers have been called out as false. CDC says 600k . I say for safety lets assume only 500k, or as low as 400k.

Patrick takes it a step further and says 1/3 of CDC cases reported are valid, and 2/3 are invalid. I'm making no judgement call on that whatsoever, just noting that is the viewpoint.

What do you think?

For arguments sake you are allowed to your own numbers. What is the point?

Do you have some logic or math to present regarding these numbers?
Is a 90 year old or an obese diabetic chain smoker who supposedly dies with COVID equal in weight in your calculations to a healthy 13 year old who dies or suffers permanent damage following experimental injection?
What difference does comparing the numbers make when people are being injured by experimental injections?
Every single experimental injection adverse event was preventable.