patrick.net

WineHorror1 says

Covid has become a religion

They do seem like Covid Fanatics. And if I am Vaccine Hesitant they are Vaccine Zealots.

Zak says

This is the odd thing to me. You say you don't know, but something must be wrong. But you're sure its wrong in one way vs the other??? Why?

"They" have lied to us in the past. Yes.
"They" have also told us the truth in the past.

Why is this time different. What is your evidence that you are saying these numbers are incorrect. What number does the evidence indicate to you IS correct????

Do you believe ANYONE is dying of Covid? So is it 10 people? 100? 100,000???

If you just don't know, and are scared, why are you scared of the jab, and not of the virus?

There are doctors (not just on TV, i know doctors personally) dealing with this virus. Have you asked your doctor??
Trump got Covid... should we not believe that?

Are you just objecting to a number someone puts up because of talk radio or something? Why do you trust that???

I ask this question in this way because it is fucking HARD to think about, and come up with a number...

I have education in a field that is related to biochemistry, and I work in that field. As I said, I don't know the number. I don't have evidence to think one way or another, and as a scientist, I can not just pull numbers out of my ass. I don't know how covid spreads. My friends at top schools in US say that they think that CDC is full of shit with respect to their ideas how covid spreads, and I concur. How will talking to doctors help, let me know? It will be anecdotal, just like my experience. I got covid myself, and it was 25 days AFTER I got a fucking covid shot - how does this correlate with reality from TV and CDC? How does it correlate with fact that 2 months BEFORE I got covid shot, I was in car for 3 hours with my neighbor who went down with covid a day later, and I did not get covid then??? I had 3 students come down with covid last year, and did not get fucking covid then, only AFTER the shot? How does THAT correlate with CDC? Where do you want me to look for the numbers if I KNOW that a lot of PCR tests were false positives due to number of cycles (too many) that they run? Should we just pull numbers out of our asses? And I do not watch TV or listen to radio, but I do try to follow SCIENCE! about this, but SCIENCE! does not provide numbers for illnesses/deaths, that is politics.

Bd6r says

Where do you want me to look for the numbers if I KNOW that a lot of PCR tests were false positives due to number of cycles (too many) that they run?

https://patrick.net/post/1340335/2021-07-29-cdc-quietly-withdraws-emergency-use-aut

CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization for PCR Test Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza

Patrick says

CDC Quietly Withdraws Emergency Use Authorization for PCR Test Due to Inability to Differentiate COVID-19 & Influenza

that explains "lack" of flu deaths last year. But again, due to social distancing this number was likely somewhat lower than in normal years so it is not clear how many flu deaths were counted as covid deaths.

Patrick says

I think there is an incredible amount of leftist anger at the 51% of the country that voted for Trump the first time, and the 52% that voted for him the second time, and they want to make all those millions of people suffer for trying to escape the oppression of the oligarchy.

They don't want anyone to forget their anger and are happy to suppress basic Constitutional rights like freedom of assembly and freedom of speech lest the majority of the country vote to escape the oligarchy once again.

It's NOT leftist anger.

It's authoritarians that are pissed off. The "leftists" are just useful idiots. They don't know, don't condemn them, we are all subject to propaganda and fall victim to it. They are the last true believers. They believe they have control over the government and control it. They are naive, they aren't stupid, they aren't morons, they just don't understand they on on leash by a despotic, out of control, oligarchy. They are simply ignorant.

Zak says

I keep trying to ask this, but what is it about the shot that you think is MORE dangerous than Covid?

There is nothing anyone can do to guarantee they won’t become infected with an airborne virus. In other words no matter what you do, as long as you are breathing you have some non-zero risk of a viral infection.

On the other hand taking a jab is like playing Russian roulette. Eventually someone ends up with a .357 size entry wound, that is unless they refuse the pull the trigger. Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

It is unknown what my real risk of either the jab or another viral infection is, but I can reduce my risk of injury by the jab to zero.

PeopleUnited says

Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

This.

I've heard plenty about people who got blood clots or died from the jab. Then when my wife's co-worker dropped dead, we were both deeply spooked.

I don't know anyone who got seriously ill from the disease.

Zak says

post what numbers you believe

30+ positive tests of close friends and family. Only one got ill and went to a doc (not ER or ICU) and they had him quit the high THC pot here in IL that's legal to help his lungs. He was also fat. He was down for 2 weeks. Boo hoo, cry me a river. The others lost sense of smell and had the sniffles no different than a typical flu. Oh the horror. Let me take some medicine that our own government hasn't approved. Logical solution.... said no one with a brain.

There's really not much discussion to be had here on this topic. You have no solid ground to stand on.

WookieMan says

There's really not much discussion to be had here on this topic. You have no solid ground to stand on.

If this is so then post what death numbers you think are attributeable to covid, and what are attributable to the vaccine. I'm not hiding behind anything. I put out there what I believe.

Why are you scared?

Patrick says

This.

I've heard plenty about people who got blood clots or died from the jab.

So you believe all these people are dying from the jab, and none from covid.. fine.. put up the numbers you believe.

How many people do you believe died from covid in the US?

From the jab?

WookieMan says

30+ positive tests of close friends and family.

So your numbers are you think 30 people in the country got sick and no one died from Covid?

Is that your belief? If not, please correct me.

How many do you think died from covid?

How many from the jab?

PeopleUnited says

Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

Perfect. I agree with this. So given that, how many people do you believe have died from covid?

How many people do you believe have died from the jab?

I don't get it. It's not like I'm asking any of you to sign a contract stating you will leave the internet if your numbers are wrong. Just estimate.

How many people do you think have died from covid, and how many from the jab!?!

It's a very straightforward question. You all are eager to tell me that the numbers I put up are incorrect. Fine! What do you think the correct numbers are!?!!?

I'm not even asking you to JUSTIFY what you think your numbers are... just whatever anecdotal claptrap you feel has any sort of realness to it in your head!

What are you afraid I will tell you you're wrong????

Just say what you think the numbers are.. Its easy.. the number keys are right above all those letters you relentlessly press while avoiding the question.
reach up there and press a few digits that indicate how many you think are dead due to either cause. Guess! What FEELS right to you!?!?

Zak says

PeopleUnited says

Refusing the jab means your risk of injury from the jab is zero.

Perfect. I agree with this. So given that, how many people do you believe have died from covid?

How many people do you believe have died from the jab?

https://youtu.be/4EgcQz6SRLU

You must ask the right questions. (And of course we need to seek honest answers to these questions if we are to make educated choices)

1. Where did this virus originate?
2. Are there effective treatments and preventative measures that reduce morbidly and mortality?
3. How many of those who died could have been saved with effective medical treatment?
4. Why do we need a risky injection if there are other effective preventative measures and therapeutics?
5. Instead of promoting risky injections why not focus on reducing risk by focusing efforts and spending to promote healthy lifestyles, nutritious food, exercise etc...?
6. Instead of promoting risky injections to people who do not want them, why not focus on developing an injection with zero risk, that actually works?
7. Do health officials think we will trust their recommendations when they lied about the efficacy of masks and continue to do so?
8. When will this so called pandemic be over?
9. How many people have suffered morbidity and mortality because of lockdowns, loss of work, jabs and other questionable policies implemented to “stop the spread?”
10. If we had just let the virus run it’s course, used known therapeutics as needed and gone on with our lives in January 2020 with essentially no changes In lifestyle, rules or regulations, could we have had a better result than what we have now?
11. Why is it ok for a woman to refuse to carry a baby to term, but not ok to refuse to take an experimental injection?
12. When did COVID become an emergency?
13. When will the so called emergency be over?
14. Is it possible that production and EUA of the experimental injections are motivated by some other reason than reducing morbidity and mortality?
15. Why are producers of vaccines exempt from liability for injuries caused by the use of vaccines?
16. Is this virus mutating and if so what factors are influencing these mutations?
17. With the rate of mutation is this virus becoming more dangerous or less dangerous over time?
18. With the rate of mutation is it even possible to develop a safe and effective vaccine?

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus, and I think about 50,000 have died from the jab so far (number from both Dr. McCullough and from that deposition by the programmer with access to government stats).

But I suspect that the number dying from the jab directly may be greatly eclipsed by ADE.

Looks like all the forefingers dying for Chinese vaccine as per CCP rap song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7iBoIU6ppE
Get jabbed .. with Chinese vaccine...feel lucky..

Patrick says

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus,

How many of those deaths could have been prevented by use of therapeutics such as Ivermectin and HCQ/zinc?

Patrick says

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus, and I think about 50,000 have died from the jab so far

Patrick.. Thank you. I respect that you can actually put up the data you think is appropriate.

Does anyone else agree or disagree with patrick?

As a reminder, the numbers I put up were 400-700k covid and 5,000-50,000 for the jab.

Do you agree with the assessment that about 30 million - 40 million people have been infected in the US?

Do you agree that about 160 million have been vaccinated?

Zak says

Patrick says

I think about 200,00 actually died of the virus, and I think about 50,000 have died from the jab so far

Patrick.. Thank you. I respect that you can actually put up the data you think is appropriate.

Does anyone else agree or disagree with patrick?

As a reminder, the numbers I put up were 400-700k covid and 5,000-50,000 for the jab.

It is hard to know. We can always find a case:
1) The person would have been saved if he had vaccine.
2) A person would have lived longer if didn't have vaccine.

The biggest issues behind vaccine is that most here think that "virus and vaccine" were both created for profit and now vaccine is forced down our collective throats to increase profits.
The vaccine didn't go through proper trials and released hastily for profits and nobody knows the long term impacts. Why do this in urgency when you can wait and study its long term impacts properly.

farmer2021 says

It is hard to know. We can always find a case:
1) The person would have been saved if he had vaccine.
2) A person would have lived longer if didn't have vaccin

I don't disagree. But CDC numbers have been called out as false. CDC says 600k . I say for safety lets assume only 500k, or as low as 400k.

Patrick takes it a step further and says 1/3 of CDC cases reported are valid, and 2/3 are invalid. I'm making no judgement call on that whatsoever, just noting that is the viewpoint.

What do you think?

For arguments sake you are allowed to your own numbers. What is the point?

Do you have some logic or math to present regarding these numbers?
Is a 90 year old or an obese diabetic chain smoker who supposedly dies with COVID equal in weight in your calculations to a healthy 13 year old who dies or suffers permanent damage following experimental injection?
What difference does comparing the numbers make when people are being injured by experimental injections?
Every single experimental injection adverse event was preventable.

The point is to figure out what action to take given the propaganda trying to confuse the issue.

the next numbers we need are what % of deaths the vaccine/ jab stops.

Zak says

farmer2021 says

It is hard to know. We can always find a case:
1) The person would have been saved if he had vaccine.
2) A person would have lived longer if didn't have vaccin

I don't disagree. But CDC numbers have been called out as false. CDC says 600k . I say for safety lets assume only 500k, or as low as 400k.

Patrick takes it a step further and says 1/3 of CDC cases reported are valid, and 2/3 are invalid. I'm making no judgement call on that whatsoever, just noting that is the viewpoint.

What do you think?

Because people have very low trust on how they behaved.
It can be anything. If You follow CCP lead, Nobody believes you.... CDC should have known before.

PeopleUnited says

What difference does comparing the numbers make when people are being injured by experimental injections?

That is the WHOLE point: to see if it makes sense to subject people to the risk of the jab compared to their risk of dying from covid.

Not is it safe. It is NOT safe. Neither is driving a car. 50,000 people per year die in car accidents, it is NOT safe.

The question is: is it worth the risk?

To know if its worth the risk, you first have to be able to estimate the risk. This is why I ask people for what numbers THEY believe... especially if they have issues with CDC numbers. If we can evaluate risk using the numbers THEY provide, especially if they are being conservative, then they can have faith that the risk we identify isn't a lie or propaganda.

Zak says

the next numbers we need are what % of deaths the vaccine/ jab stops.

What difference does it make if 100% of the fat elderly diabetics could have been saved by the jabs to live another miserable year or two if 40,000 healthy younger people are injured or killed by the experimental injections?

What percentages would justify the risk of injury from the experimental injection? This is why every person needs to asses their own risk and decide for themselves what the right choice for them is with no pressure or coercion from government, employer, schools or business owners.

If you’re healthy and not overweight by much, the Covid poses almost no risk at all. However, the jab poses significant risk.
The choice is super easy if you’re healthy. Harder if you’re not. If you’re a fat blob of human pudding like Zak, you have to decide if you trust the government and big pharma enough to try their experimental jab. Is it a preventative treatment or is it an undercover agent of destruction? How much do you think the globalists love you?

Given patrick's numbers (and I'm not holding him to them) if he thinks 50,000 people have died from the vaccine, and agrees that 150 million have been vaccinated, this is a 1 in 3000 chance of dying from the vaccine. It might be more or less depending on age and other health factors, but roughly speaking, that is the risk.

There are other risks too! Guille barre syndrome, (or whatever the name is) heart inflamation and damage (vascular in general), etc.

Am I trying to sugar coat this?? No!

I'm trying to do what engineers do: Establish data that we can use to compare and make decisions with, even if it is ugly. I try to show all the work and calculations so that you can see it with me. Transparency will show that I'm not pushing an agenda. If the data comes out and says fuck no don't take the vaccine!, then that is what it says!

So lets look at the virus: assume we agree that 30 million people have been infected, and we use Patrick's number of 200k virus deaths.
In our population of 300 Million, this means overall you have about a 10% chance of contracting the virus. Your SPECIFIC chance could be MUCH lower or higher! If you live isolated in North Dakota, you have almost zero chance of catching the virus!

But on average, we have a 10% chance so far. Out of those 30 million so far, we are saying 200k have died. This means if you catch the virus, you have about a 1 in 150 chance of dying. Again, could be much lower or higher based on your risk factors like age, weight, health, etc... But ON AVERAGE it's about 1 in 150... using Patrick's numbers!

Now you have your risk factors for the averages. So now you can apply your risk factors to YOUR situation.

If you think you are younger and in better general health, then you are probably lower than 1 in 150 of dying if you catch it.

Note I am not saying you SHOULD take it, or SHAMING you if you say you won't. I'm not encouraging you to even do one thing or another! All I am doing is showing you risk factors based on numbers that Patrick at least has put forth... You can take your beliefs and plug them in here also. In fact, a wise thing to do is to give yourself a range.

If the cdc is fudging a lot like patrick thinks.. this is what the numbers look like.. If they are accurate, then the numbers look differntly like this... and if they are underestimating or missing, then the risk would be X...

Now I will tell you MY take based on patrick's numbers.

1 in 150 on average is probably skewed older. So if I was over 55 looking at something like a 1 in 50 shot of dying if I get this disease, it would be a no-brainer, even with the fudged cdc numbers. This is vs 1 in 3600, or lets say 1 in 1000 odds of dying from the vaccine. It still isn't safe, but at the relatively high risk of death, and likely higher risk of complications not causing death, like heart issues, or lung issues, I would consider it the safer option.

Based on patricks numbers, age 40-55, I'm probably looking at a 1 in 400-500 chance of dying from covid if I get it.Still pretty risky, but much better odds. My covid vaccine risk is probably closer to average at 1 in 3000 - 5000 of dying. So less risky than getting covid, but still 100% chance I am taking that risk vs I only MIGHT get Covid. Still, if 10% of people caught covid so far, the number is going to keep rising, so it's a pretty fair chance I will catch it. So this might be a toss up. I might be on the fence. I might lean in the direction of getting the vaccine in the interest of not accidentally passing on the virus to one of my kids.

Under 40, my risk of dying of covid is much smaller. Likely so is my vaccine risk. I'm probably down to 1/1000 chance of covid death, and 1 in 10,000 chance of vaccine death.
But with such a low risk of problems with the vaccine (1/10000) to ME it is worth it to be vaccinated.

Now all of this is with PATRICK's numbers. If I use CDC numbers, the virus is fucking ravaging. that 1 in 150 chance of death is more like 1 in 50 ON AVERAGE (600k deaths in 30M people infected). Over 55 should be avoiding public like the plague, and pleading to get hands on vaccine. Its probably more like 1 in 40, or even 1 in 30 or 20 if you are 70+... Fuck masks, the elderly should be self isolating like a motherfucker. If I was 65, I would have armed guards around my perimeter until I got the vaccine. I'd be wearing a respirator and pressure washing delivered groceries in a hazmat suit if I could. This is just what the numbers tell me.... This is why I tend to underplay CDC numbers a bit.. It's what the evidence seems to suggest that its not quite that bad.

I've never seen the CDC numbers suggest anything greater than 1% chance of infection or death. Did you ever refactor any of your figures to account for the many discrepancies I mentioned, especially when it comes to VAERS?

My personal experience from first hand accounts also lines up with this, as we only know three who got covid in over a year, two where in poor health, and one got it after their shot, and zero deaths.

Interested to hear what you find, and what your personal experience has been.

Death is death, but I am certainly more concerned about living with deteriorating co-morbidities over a period of time. The couple of people who got very sick that we know of didn't report it. For some reason, they had Stockholm syndrome where they thought getting really sick was just part of becoming 'permanently' immune.

That, and not trusting the bullshit the fucking lying liars have lied about, and continue to lie about, making up fantasies to get people to do this and stoking fear. Why would anybody take anything from these vicious fools? You really think there is going to be an upside?

Zak,

I believe you to be a dishonest person. The numbers cannot be known. Don't you get it yet? Endless tail chasing is what TPTB have everyone doing. Wake up man.

Zak says

So your numbers are you think 30 people in the country got sick and no one died from Covid?

Is that your belief? If not, please correct me.

1 of 30 ended up with flu like symptoms. The others didn't know they had anything and we tested due to work or they went and got a test because someone near them tested positive. These are people I personally know.

I'm arguing that it's not a remotely severe illness/virus in the vast majority of people. I know a semi-pro hockey player, his entire team god covid (he's only one of 30 I personally know). Everybody. Not one of them felt sick outside of the no smell issue.

I'm not anti-vax, but there's almost zero point in most of the population getting the vax. I don't care about the deaths. The 3 I've heard of, from friends of friends, were all pretty much dead with major illness or unhealthy. Basically at deaths door anyway. Honestly this virus is putting people out of their misery. Frankly, I think it's a good thing instead of letting mostly dead people live out a horrible end to their life.

Government is weaponizing the fear of death to take your tax dollars and buy hundreds of millions of vaccines to inject into you. Give free money to people that make up to and over $150k depending on how you file taxes. If you don't see the problem with that, I'm not sure what else to tell you. My anecdotal evidence is just that, but it's enough for me to realize this virus is mostly bull shit.

There are 100's of things more deadly that we could regulate and try to protect people from more dangerous than covid. We've shut down the world from a mundane, very mundane flu bug. Yet we allow people to drink and smoke. Both more deadly than covid. But hey, whatever. You've bought the narrative and it doesn't seem like anyone here will change your mind. Enjoy living in fear.

I do know one person, well knew I should say at this point, he died 2 weeks after getting vaccine couple of month back. We think it's vaccine related, he wasn't unhealthy, just average.

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

I do know one person, well knew I should say at this point, he died 2 weeks after getting vaccine couple of month back. We think it's vaccine related, he wasn't unhealthy, just average.

I've only heard of bad reactions from the jab from my anecdotal knowledge, the jab is worse than the actual virus. This included people that had already gotten Covid that I mention in my previous comment.

Haven't heard of deaths from the jab yet in my personal sphere. Or at least any suspicious deaths after recent vaccination. Doesn't much matter. Covid is mundane and I'm not taking a shot not approved by the FDA, that could make me sick for a week plus and have potential long term effects that we know nothing about. There hasn't been proper clinical trial, the media push on this is frankly alarming and should make everyone question WTF is going on. Some people are smarter than others though. Oh well.

WookieMan says

Haven't heard of deaths from the jab yet in my personal sphere. Or at least any suspicious deaths after recent vaccination. Doesn't much matter. Covid is mundane and I'm not taking a shot not approved by the FDA, that could make me sick for a week plus and have potential long term effects that we know nothing about. There hasn't been proper clinical trial, the media push on this is frankly alarming and should make everyone question WTF is going on. Some people are smarter than others though. Oh well.

What makes me question all this shit they are pushing is their insane levels of censorship of early treatment and insane level of censorship of failed vaccines (they call that now breakthrough cases). Forcing people to stay home, they are fucking killing us. Fucking Republicans better go get jobs at Quiznos like Tucker said, if they don't start speaking up, fucking cowards.

FortWayneAsNancyPelosiHaircut says

Fucking Republicans better go get jobs at Quiznos like Tucker said, if they don't start speaking up, fucking cowards.

How would you know if they are speaking up, since they are getting censored?

zzyzzx says

How would you know if they are speaking up, since they are getting censored?

They are, just not on sources most people would visit. Not a knock on Patrick, as it's probably not his fault, but I'm sure sites like this are censored on the major search engines or buried on page 20. You have to take extra steps to find places like this.

Social media has changed the game. The majority of 40 and under are using those site like Twitter and Facebook (I'm sure there are newer ones too). They're censoring people that question what's going on. Older people also use those sites. We have what I'd call a vocal minority OF the majority because of social media and they get news from the MSM.

All my high school buddies and college buddies besides one hasn't and won't get the jab. Some are pretty left leaning too. We're all under 45 though. I think 3 from our core group of about 15-20 have gotten Covid. Big fat nothing burger for them. I don't even think those guys lost sense of smell. Were just tested for work or potential "exposure" to someone with Covid.

No one is taking Covid seriously. Half of the people I know that got the vaccine did it against their own choice. Work or thought it would protect grandma or mom. We come to find out it doesn't protect you from spreading it, as is the case with any flu bug. AND you can still get sick yourself. When you call it a vaccine, I was thinking more along the lines of measles, small pox, polio, etc.

Covid won't and can't go away. It's a virus. We just have to hope when we get it a 2nd or 3rd time our immune system does it's work. Which it will and we won't notice a thing. Hell, the first time most don't even know it without being required to test for it or thinking you were around someone that was positive.