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Regarding a UBI


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2021 Mar 5, 12:54pm   2,763 views  45 comments

by Zak   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

"Some people will take the money and sit around and do nothing, but so what?"

I was thinking about this, and came up with the following. Tldr : eliminate income tax, and create a prosperity dividend instead of a UBI
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For UBI, the money doesn't magically come from nowhere. You have to take it from someone to give it to someone else. If you "print" it, then you take it from everyone equally, but it then gets spent and redistributed into the hands of business owners who benefit from the spending. This therefore hurts people who are not in the capitalist class through inflation. You can see this is true, because of our current minimum/living wage fight. If increasing GDP over time with inflation is supposed to help everyone, then the minimum wage shouldn't continue to be an issue, as more economic output distributed equally would tend to create additional higher paying jobs. Instead what we see is a reversion to a low paying service economy with more and more people bouncing off the minimum wage floor. At the same time, the wealth disparity is increasing, and the richest 1% have gained substantially more than the 99% below them over the previous 40 years. This can't be blamed on republicans, or democrats, or taxes, as taxes only take further from incomes, and don't ADD to people's incomes. Additionally, the trend has been consistent over both republican and democrat led presidencies and congresses.

So again, currently with a UBI, you will get inflation, which hurts savers, and benefits the 1%, as they get the money. So the bottom 10% will be marginally better off, the middle 89% will be markedly WORSE off, and the 1% will consolidate further wealth (as always). So what's the answer?

In my very humble opinion, a start to the answer is to eliminate the w-2 income tax, and instead gather that tax from income and wages paid by corporations. With the middle class no longer worried that every tax proposed will fiscally damage them, they will be willing to vote for social programs that come from tax revenues instead of from inflation. The tax code will be more fair, as corporations with actual lobbying power will fight amongst themselves to equalize taxes paid. Corporations will be the first to rat each other out from these double irish sandwich tax loops if it means they can lower their own tax burden, instead of jus relying on income taxes to fuel the government, and weasleing their way out of their fair share.

Then, we can do a UBI, but instead of a fixed base income, it can be a prosperity dividend. If the country does well, and GDP goes up, you get a bigger payout. If we have a bad year, your payout won't be as big, but we won't create inflation to erode your savings. Additionally, we eliminate 90% of the IRS having to focus on individual tax returns, and they can focus on corporate compliance. This also saves billions of dollars in paperwork and tax return costs each year.

A side benefit, all the government conspiracy theorist/haters will have a massive reduction in anti-government sentiment, as they are no longer under the gun from the IRS. And instead of people being against corporations (big AND small), we will be cheering for them to earn massive profits, and earn us a higher prosperity dividend.

Additionally, I could see the rich actually lobbying for HIGHER capital gains taxes, and lower wage taxes, as wage taxes would need to be paid every year, but capital gains can occur much less frequently.

What do you guys think?

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41   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Feb 1, 10:48am  

AD says

Mish Talk website posted about the House of Representatives passing child tax credits bill today which is essentially universal basic income (UBI).


Really? How come I don't get the credits then?

If it ain't universal then it ain't universal.
42   Misc   2024 Feb 3, 11:30am  

The government is trying to improve the domestic fertility rate. Raising kids is enormously expensive. The increase to the child tax credit is nowhere even close to the cost of raising a child, but it does add a little incentive for heterosexual couples to have children and marry.

Looks to me a step in the right direction.
43   HeadSet   2024 Feb 3, 2:49pm  

AD says

Mish Talk website posted about the House of Representatives passing child tax credits bill today which is essentially universal basic income (UBI).

No, that child tax credit is another form of welfare that is paid through the IRS system.
44   UkraineIsTotallyFucked   2024 Feb 3, 4:48pm  

Misc says

The government is trying to improve the domestic fertility rate. Raising kids is enormously expensive. The increase to the child tax credit is nowhere even close to the cost of raising a child, but it does add a little incentive for heterosexual couples to have children and marry.

Looks to me a step in the right direction.


How about...oh, I dunno...doing something else like fixing the root cause of the problem instead?


45   HeadSet   2024 Feb 3, 6:01pm  



Yes, because:
That car was built in Detroit
That suite was made in New York
The home radio and record player were made in Illinois
The TV was made in Ohio
The family clothes were made in North Carolina
The washing machine was made in a midwest city
The house was built with American contractors using American labor and American make materials
Even the telephone was an American made Western Electric device

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