patrick.net

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2

Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19: results of a randomized clinical trial

Aims: Studies have indicated that chloroquine (CQ) shows antagonism against COVID-19 in vitro. However, evidence regarding its effects in patients is limited. This study aims to evaluate the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) in the treatment of patients with COVID-19. ... Significance: Among patients with COVID-19, the use of HCQ could significantly shorten TTCR and promote the absorption of pneumonia.

Fake News because Orangemanbad no matter what he does, @Patrick
I note that more TDS individuals above tried to argue against clinical evidence by desperate doctors who used the drug only because anything orange man says is uncritically assumed to be wrong

"Let's give out Free Needles, allow the homeless to shit and poop in the street, and decriminalize thefts under $900. Also, Hydrochloroquinine is untested and should not be recommended for a year until double blind tests have been carried out according to normal FDA procedure on this ancient, generic drug that is manufactured and used all over the planet for the better part of a century."

FUNNY HOW they disparage 'anecdotal evidence'...was good science for thousands of years..worked long B4 double blind studies.

https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-treated-with-hydroxychloroquine-hopes-he-still-dies-of-covid-19-to-prove-trump-is-stupid

Florida woman...
You write the rest:
- Nearly dies taking Trump pills
- Felt stabbing pain in her lungs fighting reaction to off label usage of drugs
- Is saved by hydroxychloroquine
Her tests results came back the next day and confirmed she had coronavirus. Doctors put her on several medications, including hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malaria drug that President Donald Trump has touted as a potential medication to treat coronavirus, despite medical experts saying more testing needs to be done to determine that.
On Wednesday, she was put on oxygen.
“I felt like someone was grabbing my lungs with their nails and just squeezing them so tight. The pain, it just felt like stabbing pain in my lungs,” Griffin said.
She spent three days having a hard time breathing, but then, on Friday, she was able to be taken off oxygen.

Tenpoundbass says

FUNNY HOW they disparage 'anecdotal evidence'...was good science for thousands of years..worked long B4 double blind studies.

Yeah, but what does anecdotal evidence even mean when people have a 98% chance of getting better without any medicine ?

I know you won't answer, but I can't help but wonder if you even understand the question.

" I treated a dozen people with this and they all got better." Meanwhile the chance of a dozen people getting better (when the individual probability is .98), assuming independence is .7847. So treat a dozen people, treat another dozen, treat another dozen, treat another dozen and do that 100 times. All 12 are supposed to get better in about 79 of those of those dozens.

You actually kind of need experiments, statistical sampling.

Was it though ?

leeches ?

marcus says

Yeah, but what does anecdotal evidence even mean when people have a 98% chance of getting better without any medicine ?

not 98% of ones who end up in hospital

:
According to the expert in that video, 2% of the symptomatic die. I'll grant you it's more complicated.

marcus says

:
According to the expert in that video, 2% of the symptomatic die. I'll grant you it's more complicated.

it is, no doubt.
Philosophically, the problem is that for 30% of population trump is right no matter what he says. For another 30% he is wrong no matter what he says or does. People on this thread were arguing back and forth that HCQ does not work, just because trump said that it works. Appears that trump was very right, and it was easy to see that this is not a topic in which he can bullshit like he usually does - it is a yes/no issue, and him being a used car salesman, he is skillful enough to see where truth can be stretched to extreme and where not. he probably had some advance report from CDC or FDA or NIH and then he touted "this works!" as a good used car salesman would do.

https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/anti-malaria-drug-being-used-to-treat-texas-city-coronavirus-patients/285-8ada8747-c624-4c8a-8651-64a762086a37

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has announced that 83 patients at a nursing facility in Texas City, Texas, have tested positive for coronavirus, and 30 of those are being administered the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine.

“As of today, about 30 patients are being tested with the hydroxychloroquine to determine whether it will be a successful treatment for the patients,” Abbott said on Monday. “They are in the second day of this testing regimen that will last several more days.”

“We look forward to updating you as the week progresses about how this drug is aiding or not these patients,” Abbott said.

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/04/06/denver-doctor-coronavirus-hydroxycholoroquine/

A Denver family physician has been prescribing a controversial medication to his patients, sick with coronavirus, and believes it is yielding positive results. Dr. Constantine Tsamasfyros, who has been a primary care doctor in Denver for nearly 50 years, told CBS4 Investigator Brian Maass he has prescribed a combination of hydroxychloroquine (also known as Plaquenil) and an antibiotic called azithromycin to about a dozen patients over the last few weeks.

“They all did well. They seemed to reverse their symptoms in a day or two,” said Tsamasfyros, who said he “absolutely” believed the medication was working.

“If they’re drowning, you either pull them out of the water or at least throw them a rope to come out,” he said while explaining his decision to prescribe the medication.

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

Heraclitusstudent says

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

@Heraclitusstudent : https://patrick.net/post/1331299?offset=0#comment-1660332

Trump's "stake", lol.

https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-treated-with-hydroxychloroquine-hopes-he-still-dies-of-covid-19-to-prove-trump-is-stupid

NEW YORK, NY—When Jeffrey Walton tested positive for COVID-19, he hoped for a speedy recovery. But since he has been treated with hydroxychloroquine, the experimental treatment President Donald Trump has been touting, he now hopes he dies quickly to help prove that Trump is an idiot.

So Chris Cuomos wife gave an update on his condition and how she's treating it.

"“Since this particular virus has no proven remedy… she assigned oxygenated herbs, natural remedies and homeopathics to boost Chris’ immune system for the battle ahead,” Cristina wrote. As for food, Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals"

That's right, screw those anti-virals. Since those are unproven, we've gone with herbs, natural remedies, and chicken soup. Remember Steve Jobs trying to cure his cancer with juice? I guess innovation has its limits.

So instead of a medication with a 60 year proven track record, she’s going with homeopathic remedies based on folklore because DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES!!! ZOMG!

Heraclitusstudent says

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

That is total bullshit. If you weren’t so fucking blinded by hate you’d see this as the fake news story that it is. Part of a mutual fund worth maybe $100 is invested in that company. Fuck! I probably have investment in that one too via my own mutual funds! I don’t even know. So how the fuck would Trump know? And he wipes his ass with $100 dollar bills.
Time to grow up and start thinking critically.

Shaman says

So instead of a medication with a 60 year proven track record, she’s going with homeopathic remedies based on folklore because DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES!!! ZOMG!

So he has a higher probability of dying.... who cares. Remember, people eat Tide Pods....

Life is finite no matter what. Try and live as long as possible, but the absolute fear of death from this cold was hysterical at first. Now it's just pure stupidity from the media. We all end up 6' under, burned or thrown in the woods or ocean. You will die. Enjoy life. Very difficult to enjoy life when you're told to stay in your house because of fat, old sick people.

theoakman says

Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals

I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.

rd6B says

theoakman says

Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals

I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.

AF jokes about the paid actors. I generally don't believe that tin foil hat stuff. This is 1,000% a case of that though. Not sure if he's being told to do this or he's doing it on his own. ALL interviews I've seen of him he seems perfectly healthy. Shows no symptoms of anything. Whatever though, I'll just get called crazy and people will trust some media mouth piece that needs to, really needs to sell ads right now.

WookieMan says

AF jokes about the paid actors. I generally don't believe that tin foil hat stuff. This is 1,000% a case of that though. Not sure if he's being told to do this or he's doing it on his own. ALL interviews I've seen of him he seems perfectly healthy. Shows no symptoms of anything. Whatever though, I'll just get called crazy and people will trust some media mouth piece that needs to, really needs to sell ads right now.

Reelection - I am so brave, I survived corona, re-elect me even though I trashed NY economy! No false flag, but posturing.

rd6B says

Reelection - I am so brave, I survived corona, re-elect me even though I trashed NY economy! No false flag, but posturing.

They just put all their faith in Biden... LOL. Based on the coverage I feel like Cuomo's big bro and Prickzer are battling for something. Anyone can call me out later, but I'm about 95% convinced that Biden WON'T be the Dem nominee by the time we get to November. It's going to be one of the two aforementioned governors. We'll see. Quote this if anyone wants to beat me up later....

rd6B says

theoakman says

Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals

I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.

Yah I made this argument a bunch of times after I got my BS in Chemistry... People never appreciated it. The titration is real.

rd6B says

HCQ does not work, just because trump said that it work

I never thought that it doesn't work. Only that it's very difficult to tell, when recovery rates are over 90% anyway, and that many studies say there is little good evidence that it does. I was wishing that it does, and couldn't care less whether Trump get's credit for pushing it.

Even my personal self interest in California not going broke due to a deep recession, not to mention my more altruistic self interest that you may project to not exist, is in favor of such treatments working and far outweighs my not liking Trump and his getting some political credit for whatever works.

Also note there there is a big difference in side effects between plain chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine

The media of course stresses the side effects of chloroquine, because they have an agenda, and it's not truth. It's stirring up as much hate as possible to prevent Trump from bringing back manufacturing from China.

Shaman says

blinded by hate

It's kind of sad how liberals nurture and propagate their hate above all else. They would be much happier if they could rationally say "well, Trump is kind of sketchy, but he's right that we should not outsource all our antibiotic production to China, giving them the power to cut off life-saving drugs at any time."

“Having practiced medicine for nearly 30 years, I have seen how foreign dependence, specifically on imports from China, harms the medical supply chain and our readiness for an outbreak firsthand . . . The COVID-19 pandemic has exacerbated problems that were already festering,” Rep. Roger Marshall (R-KS)

- from a White House email.

WookieMan says

Very difficult to enjoy life when you're told to stay in your house because of fat, old sick people.

It seems likely that the rich and the people with political power (usually the same) are mostly old, and afraid for their own health. Most people end up with one "comorbidity" or another by the age of 75. So they burn down the economy out of fear.

It seems likely that the rich and the people with political power (usually the same) are mostly old, and afraid for their own health. Most people end up with one "comorbidity" or another by the age of 75. So they burn down the economy out of fear.

I do not know any mega-rich old people, but all the old people I do know seemed more concerned with their kid's and grand kid's welfare than themselves. Many even make sacrifices because they want to leave inheritances. It seems the mindset of old, rich policy makers may be different than their counterparts in the middle/working classes.

Shaman says

Heraclitusstudent says

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

That is total bullshit. If you weren’t so fucking blinded by hate you’d see this as the fake news story that it is. Part of a mutual fund worth maybe $100 is invested in that company. Fuck! I probably have investment in that one too via my own mutual funds! I don’t even know. So how the fuck would Trump know? And he wipes his ass with $100 dollar bills.
Time to grow up and start thinking critically.

And being a top international drug company, it's in Pharma based ETFs which means that a lot of the unaware investing public has some exposure to it, not just Trump & Co.

And given the fact that it's a generic, the profit margins are already low so it's not even a target novel agent for a major cap gains which is why places like Vertex are always searching tor a more patent-able and thus, more expense new drug lines.

marcus says

I never thought that it doesn't work. Only that it's very difficult to tell, when recovery rates are over 90% anyway, and that many studies say there is little good evidence that it does. I was wishing that it does, and couldn't care less whether Trump get's credit for pushing it.

I'm not pointing at you, @marcus, I feel that you can be argued with rationally for most

Rin says

Shaman says

Heraclitusstudent says

Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....

Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html

I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.

That is total bullshit. If you weren’t so fucking blinded by hate you’d see this as the fake news story that it is. Part of a mutual fund worth maybe $100 is invested in that company. Fuck! I probably have investment in that one too via my own mutual funds! I don’t even know. So how the fuck would Trump know? And he wipes his ass with $100 dollar bills.
Time to...

100% agreed it's so cheap with such low margins that cos literally give it away. The pump and dump is in "novel" drugs and vaccines.

Patrick says

It seems likely that the rich and the people with political power (usually the same) are mostly old, and afraid for their own health. Most people end up with one "comorbidity" or another by the age of 75. So they burn down the economy out of fear.

Hence why I've recommended age limits for politicians. We have floors age wise for House reps, Senators and POTUS. For some reason it's okay to work until you're completely fucking senile. Term limits and old age limits would be a massive step in the right direction.

I'm not even super tech savvy, but I'd doubt most 50 year olds could even set up a domain name and wordpress themed site without having to hire someone. If you don't understand what the fuck you're legislating to some extent, we've got a god damn problem.

For some reason it's okay to work until you're completely fucking senile.

Because at the time this was set up, the founders figured the voters would not elect a senile type like Biden. Remember, voting was limited to property owners who were electing one of their own to do a temporary job and then get back to farm or business. Since we now have universal voting rights, where even an illiterate can cast a ballot, we do need term limits and maximum age.

HeadSet says

For some reason it's okay to work until you're completely fucking senile.

Because at the time this was set up, the founders figured the voters would not elect a senile type like Biden. Remember, voting was limited to property owners who were electing one of their own to do a temporary job and then get back to farm or business. Since we now have universal voting rights, where even an illiterate can cast a ballot, we do need term limits and maximum age.

lol straight outta idiocracy.

I'm not even super tech savvy, but I'd doubt most 50 year olds could even set up a domain name

I remember going to Vandenburg AFB where I got to watch satellites being prepared prior to being set atop rockets. There was not a single guy working directly on those satellites that was under 60. Lots of intellect in the oldsters that do not go senile. And by the way, setting up a domain name is kind of a specialized task, even if not hard. How many 30 year olds do you think can set up a network using IPv6?

:
Maximum age for starting a first term should be somewhere about 66 or 67. And even that old should be discouraged, it's a demanding job, that required boatloads of golf.

Shaman says

rd6B says

theoakman says

Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals

I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.

Yah I made this argument a bunch of times after I got my BS in Chemistry... People never appreciated it. The titration is real.

I feel your pain. When I was a grad student in Chemistry, I sold hot sauce I made on the side at a farm. I grew all the peppers and fermented them myself. I literally had 4 ingredients. Peppers, vinegar, salt, xanthan gum. The product was a far superior texture with just a tiny pinch. Every granola fuck would question me adding a "chemical". I would literally explain to them the biological process that creates xanthan gum and they didn't listed because they didn't like the name. I would just tell them not to buy it because I sold out every day anyway. The best part was...once they realized I didn't need their business, then they would buy...the fucks.

Another time, I was in whole foods and this girl is looking at a bag of chips with her friend and says "I would never put a poison like maltodextrin in my body". She's covered from her neck down in fucking tattoos. What, ink in your skin for life is fine but anything you don't like the name of cannot pass through your digestive track?

That's the thing that really pisses me off with these people. They are always all inked up but so conscious of what they put into their body. They all smoke weed too (not that I'm against that but just have a set of values consistent with each other).

As far as homeopathic shit goes....all the females at my workplace run workshops where they claim if you spray lavender oil on god knows what....it cures everything! Oh you have allergies...try lavender oil. Oh you are depressed...try lavender oil. Oh you have a fever? Try lavender oil. Oh you have Wuhan Flu? Here...spray the lavender oil in your throat. I'm sure Chris Cuomo fucking reeks of lavender oil right now.

These are the same people probably badmouthing the potential of anti-virals....medications that literally are designed to interfere with viral replication!

ok end rant...

When I was a grad student in Chemistry, I sold hot sauce I made on the side at a farm.
Every granola fuck would question me adding a "chemical".

Tell them the xanthan gum was only added to stop the pepper sauce from melting the bottle....

theoakman says

Shaman says

rd6B says

theoakman says

Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals

I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.

Yah I made this argument a bunch of times after I got my BS in Chemistry... People never appreciated it. The titration is real.

I feel your pain. When I was a grad student in Chemistry, I sold hot sauce I made on the side at a farm. I grew all the peppers and fermented them myself. I literally had 4 ingredients. Peppers, vinegar, salt, xanthan gum. The product was a far superior texture with jus...

I don't take any advice from any chick that isn't A) very hot and B) not tattoed/pierced. Back in the days a lot of those trends and miracle cures where still fake fads but at least the chicks were hot. These days they're being sold by slobs. lol