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Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine against Wuhan virus
invite response
2020 Mar 21, 10:47am 11,968 views 290 comments
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202
rdm
2020 Apr 6, 2:28pm
rd6B says
All this says is that the FDA is now a politicized agency, really it always has been. Because " the totality of [real]scientific evidence available to FDA" is almost zero. Yes, there is the suggestion that it may have some effect, maybe a great effect and maybe no effect and it could simply be the placebo effect which can be significant. And Fauci is walking on eggshells, guarantee if Trump wasn't so gung ho on this he would be much harsher in his characterization of the purported treatment. Now I hear Trump is talking to Dr. Ozz and his trade rep Navaro and Rudi Giuliani as experts on the subject, hmmm doesn't that give one pause? Fortunately there are some real studies going on now, saw a guy from the University of Minnesota was working on two true double blind studies. Preliminary results may be fairly soon. I really hope it is effective as its cheap and available with side effects that are significant but usually tolerable, but will wait for the scientists to make that determination.
Based on the totality of scientific evidence available to FDA, it is reasonable to believe that chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate may be effective in treating COVID-19, and that, when used under the conditions described in this authorization, the known and potential benefits of chloroquine phosphate and hydroxychloroquine sulfate when used to treat COVID-19 outweigh the known and potential risks of such products.
All this says is that the FDA is now a politicized agency, really it always has been. Because " the totality of [real]scientific evidence available to FDA" is almost zero. Yes, there is the suggestion that it may have some effect, maybe a great effect and maybe no effect and it could simply be the placebo effect which can be significant. And Fauci is walking on eggshells, guarantee if Trump wasn't so gung ho on this he would be much harsher in his characterization of the purported treatment. Now I hear Trump is talking to Dr. Ozz and his trade rep Navaro and Rudi Giuliani as experts on the subject, hmmm doesn't that give one pause? Fortunately there are some real studies going on now, saw a guy from the University of Minnesota was working on two true double blind studies. Preliminary results may be fairly soon. I really hope it is effective as its cheap and available with side effects that are significant but usually tolerable, but will wait for the scientists to make that determination.
203
Bd6r
2020 Apr 6, 2:37pm
Bd6r
2020 Apr 6, 2:37pm
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC300808/
BMJ. 2003 Dec 20; 327(7429): 1459–1461.
doi: 10.1136/bmj.327.7429.1459
Objectives To determine whether parachutes are effective in preventing major trauma related to gravitational challenge.
Design Systematic review of randomised controlled trials.
Data sources: Medline, Web of Science, Embase, and the Cochrane Library databases; appropriate internet sites and citation lists.
Study selection: Studies showing the effects of using a parachute during free fall.
Main outcome measure Death or major trauma, defined as an injury severity score > 15.
Results We were unable to identify any randomised controlled trials of parachute intervention.
Conclusions As with many interventions intended to prevent ill health, the effectiveness of parachutes has not been subjected to rigorous evaluation by using randomised controlled trials. Advocates of evidence based medicine have criticised the adoption of interventions evaluated by using only observational data. We think that everyone might benefit if the most radical protagonists of evidence based medicine organised and participated in a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled, crossover trial of the parachute.
BMJ. 2003 Dec 20; 327(7429): 1459–1461.
doi: 10.1136/bmj.327.7429.1459
Objectives To determine whether parachutes are effective in preventing major trauma related to gravitational challenge.
Design Systematic review of randomised controlled trials.
Data sources: Medline, Web of Science, Embase, and the Cochrane Library databases; appropriate internet sites and citation lists.
Study selection: Studies showing the effects of using a parachute during free fall.
Main outcome measure Death or major trauma, defined as an injury severity score > 15.
Results We were unable to identify any randomised controlled trials of parachute intervention.
Conclusions As with many interventions intended to prevent ill health, the effectiveness of parachutes has not been subjected to rigorous evaluation by using randomised controlled trials. Advocates of evidence based medicine have criticised the adoption of interventions evaluated by using only observational data. We think that everyone might benefit if the most radical protagonists of evidence based medicine organised and participated in a double blind, randomised, placebo controlled, crossover trial of the parachute.
204
socal2
2020 Apr 6, 2:47pm
*Detroit Democrat rep says hydroxychloroquine, Trump helped save her life amid COVID-19 fight*
LANSING — A Democratic state representative from Detroit is crediting hydroxychloroquine — and Republican President Donald Trump who touted the drug — for saving her in her battle with the coronavirus.
State Rep. Karen Whitsett, who learned Monday she has tested positive for COVID-19, said she started taking hydroxychloroquine on March 31, prescribed by her doctor, after both she and her husband sought treatment for a range of symptoms on March 18.
"It was less than two hours" before she started to feel relief, said Whitsett, who had experienced shortness of breath, swollen lymph nodes, and what felt like a sinus infection. She is still experiencing headaches, she said.
Whitsett said she was familiar with "the wonders" of hydroxychloroquine from an earlier bout with Lyme disease, but does not believe she would have thought to ask for it, or her doctor would have prescribed it, had Trump not been touting it as a possible treatment for COVID-19.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/04/06/democrat-karen-whitsett-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-trump/2955430001/
LANSING — A Democratic state representative from Detroit is crediting hydroxychloroquine — and Republican President Donald Trump who touted the drug — for saving her in her battle with the coronavirus.
State Rep. Karen Whitsett, who learned Monday she has tested positive for COVID-19, said she started taking hydroxychloroquine on March 31, prescribed by her doctor, after both she and her husband sought treatment for a range of symptoms on March 18.
"It was less than two hours" before she started to feel relief, said Whitsett, who had experienced shortness of breath, swollen lymph nodes, and what felt like a sinus infection. She is still experiencing headaches, she said.
Whitsett said she was familiar with "the wonders" of hydroxychloroquine from an earlier bout with Lyme disease, but does not believe she would have thought to ask for it, or her doctor would have prescribed it, had Trump not been touting it as a possible treatment for COVID-19.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2020/04/06/democrat-karen-whitsett-coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-trump/2955430001/
205
EBGuy
2020 Apr 6, 2:52pm
The last part of the story if interesting too. If State Rep. Whitsett makes a full recovery, she'll likely have a lot of visibility as she is able to move about freely.
She said too many people in Detroit are still not taking the virus seriously, and that needs to change.
"I see it in my own community — not being quarantined and still having house parties," she said.
Asked what she thinks of Trump's handling of the pandemic more generally, Whitsett said she credits Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan's relationship with Trump for helping to get the city what it needs to fight the virus.
She said too many people in Detroit are still not taking the virus seriously, and that needs to change.
"I see it in my own community — not being quarantined and still having house parties," she said.
Asked what she thinks of Trump's handling of the pandemic more generally, Whitsett said she credits Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan's relationship with Trump for helping to get the city what it needs to fight the virus.
206
marcus
2020 Apr 6, 2:55pm
marcus
2020 Apr 6, 2:55pm
rd6B says
Two things, one, thats 9 days ago, and yes they approved it for use.
The other is that stories have come out since questioning it's efficacy. They are small tests, and several tests before questioned it. The ones that were hopeful, like the one by the french hippy were just silly. A high percentage were not even symptomatic.
socal2 says
Right, but we know that 98% get better anyway.
Maybe with zinc alone it's 99.5% that get better, and 95% if you're over 80%. We just don't know.
I know, in these times, given the greed of big pharma it's easy to wish that neither science or statistics were a thing (talkng to tpb) .
Also, FDA says differently: https://www.fda.gov/media/136534/download
Two things, one, thats 9 days ago, and yes they approved it for use.
The other is that stories have come out since questioning it's efficacy. They are small tests, and several tests before questioned it. The ones that were hopeful, like the one by the french hippy were just silly. A high percentage were not even symptomatic.
socal2 says
"Every patient I've prescribed it to has been very, very ill and within 8 to 12 hours, they were basically symptom-free," Cardillo told Eyewitness News. "So clinically I am seeing a resolution."
Right, but we know that 98% get better anyway.
Maybe with zinc alone it's 99.5% that get better, and 95% if you're over 80%. We just don't know.
I know, in these times, given the greed of big pharma it's easy to wish that neither science or statistics were a thing (talkng to tpb) .
207
Shaman
2020 Apr 6, 4:03pm
Shaman
2020 Apr 6, 4:03pm
rdm says
Bullshit! If you had the Rona and couldn’t fucking breathe, you’d suddenly develop an appreciation for fast tracking medical use of a prescription drug that’s been in use for 70 fucking years!
STFU about double blind methodology when it absolutely MANDATES that we kill a few hundred people whom we could have saved.
. I really hope it is effective as its cheap and available with side effects that are significant but usually tolerable, but will wait for the scientists to make that determination.
Bullshit! If you had the Rona and couldn’t fucking breathe, you’d suddenly develop an appreciation for fast tracking medical use of a prescription drug that’s been in use for 70 fucking years!
STFU about double blind methodology when it absolutely MANDATES that we kill a few hundred people whom we could have saved.
208
rdm
2020 Apr 6, 4:40pm
Shaman says
Just because you are hysterical dont project that on me. If I get to the point of needing a ventilator my directive says no. But of course being hysterical you probably haven't studied what can happen when you get put on a ventilator. It is really something to avoid. And there are worse things than dying. As to the drug don't know whether I would take it or not. Like I said I hope it works. But by dissing double blind studies you only show your ignorance.
As scientists search for effective meds many things need to be tested, why put all your eggs in this basket? Antivirals are difficult to develop, did we get lucky and have a drug that works on this particular novel virus? Of course it's possible but most reputable scientists say it would be a huge stroke of luck, the odds are very much against it.
Bullshit! If you had the Rona and couldn’t fucking breathe, you’d suddenly develop an appreciation for fast tracking medical use of a prescription drug that’s been in use for 70 fucking years!
Just because you are hysterical dont project that on me. If I get to the point of needing a ventilator my directive says no. But of course being hysterical you probably haven't studied what can happen when you get put on a ventilator. It is really something to avoid. And there are worse things than dying. As to the drug don't know whether I would take it or not. Like I said I hope it works. But by dissing double blind studies you only show your ignorance.
As scientists search for effective meds many things need to be tested, why put all your eggs in this basket? Antivirals are difficult to develop, did we get lucky and have a drug that works on this particular novel virus? Of course it's possible but most reputable scientists say it would be a huge stroke of luck, the odds are very much against it.
209
mell
2020 Apr 6, 7:10pm
It's interesting how people (leftoids) insist on year long double blinded trials to prove a drug in use for almost a century which most likely does help with Covid-19, but then trumpet out lout projections of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people dying based on mathematically/statistically completely unsound assumptions where they have the luxury and the time to look for factual data instead. When projecting that millions die confidence intervals and hazard ratios suddenly don't matter, only when someone is on the fritz and makes a conscious choice then it's cool to deny them their wish based on not-carried out double-blinded studies.
210
Bd6r
2020 Apr 6, 7:33pm
Bd6r
2020 Apr 6, 7:33pm
marcus says
Desperate times require desperate measures. If they would not have at least some indications that it works, they would not have approved. How efficient this thing is, is a whole another question.
Two things, one, thats 9 days ago, and yes they approved it for use.
Desperate times require desperate measures. If they would not have at least some indications that it works, they would not have approved. How efficient this thing is, is a whole another question.
213
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 8:25am
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 8:25am
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.22.20040758v2
Efficacy of hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19: results of a randomized clinical trial
Aims: Studies have indicated that chloroquine (CQ) shows antagonism against COVID-19 in vitro. However, evidence regarding its effects in patients is limited. This study aims to evaluate the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) in the treatment of patients with COVID-19. ... Significance: Among patients with COVID-19, the use of HCQ could significantly shorten TTCR and promote the absorption of pneumonia.
214
Bd6r
2020 Apr 7, 9:41am
Bd6r
2020 Apr 7, 9:41am
Fake News because Orangemanbad no matter what he does, @Patrick
I note that more TDS individuals above tried to argue against clinical evidence by desperate doctors who used the drug only because anything orange man says is uncritically assumed to be wrong
I note that more TDS individuals above tried to argue against clinical evidence by desperate doctors who used the drug only because anything orange man says is uncritically assumed to be wrong
215
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Apr 7, 9:43am
MisdemeanorRebel
2020 Apr 7, 9:43am
"Let's give out Free Needles, allow the homeless to shit and poop in the street, and decriminalize thefts under $900. Also, Hydrochloroquinine is untested and should not be recommended for a year until double blind tests have been carried out according to normal FDA procedure on this ancient, generic drug that is manufactured and used all over the planet for the better part of a century."
216
Tenpoundbass
2020 Apr 7, 11:09am
Tenpoundbass
2020 Apr 7, 11:09am
FUNNY HOW they disparage 'anecdotal evidence'...was good science for thousands of years..worked long B4 double blind studies.
218
EBGuy
2020 Apr 7, 5:21pm
Florida woman...
You write the rest:
- Nearly dies taking Trump pills
- Felt stabbing pain in her lungs fighting reaction to off label usage of drugs
- Is saved by hydroxychloroquine
Her tests results came back the next day and confirmed she had coronavirus. Doctors put her on several medications, including hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malaria drug that President Donald Trump has touted as a potential medication to treat coronavirus, despite medical experts saying more testing needs to be done to determine that.
On Wednesday, she was put on oxygen.
“I felt like someone was grabbing my lungs with their nails and just squeezing them so tight. The pain, it just felt like stabbing pain in my lungs,” Griffin said.
She spent three days having a hard time breathing, but then, on Friday, she was able to be taken off oxygen.
You write the rest:
- Nearly dies taking Trump pills
- Felt stabbing pain in her lungs fighting reaction to off label usage of drugs
- Is saved by hydroxychloroquine
Her tests results came back the next day and confirmed she had coronavirus. Doctors put her on several medications, including hydroxychloroquine, an anti-malaria drug that President Donald Trump has touted as a potential medication to treat coronavirus, despite medical experts saying more testing needs to be done to determine that.
On Wednesday, she was put on oxygen.
“I felt like someone was grabbing my lungs with their nails and just squeezing them so tight. The pain, it just felt like stabbing pain in my lungs,” Griffin said.
She spent three days having a hard time breathing, but then, on Friday, she was able to be taken off oxygen.
219
marcus
2020 Apr 7, 7:31pm
marcus
2020 Apr 7, 7:31pm
Tenpoundbass says
Yeah, but what does anecdotal evidence even mean when people have a 98% chance of getting better without any medicine ?
I know you won't answer, but I can't help but wonder if you even understand the question.
" I treated a dozen people with this and they all got better." Meanwhile the chance of a dozen people getting better (when the individual probability is .98), assuming independence is .7847. So treat a dozen people, treat another dozen, treat another dozen, treat another dozen and do that 100 times. All 12 are supposed to get better in about 79 of those of those dozens.
You actually kind of need experiments, statistical sampling.
Was it though ?
leeches ?
FUNNY HOW they disparage 'anecdotal evidence'...was good science for thousands of years..worked long B4 double blind studies.
Yeah, but what does anecdotal evidence even mean when people have a 98% chance of getting better without any medicine ?
I know you won't answer, but I can't help but wonder if you even understand the question.
" I treated a dozen people with this and they all got better." Meanwhile the chance of a dozen people getting better (when the individual probability is .98), assuming independence is .7847. So treat a dozen people, treat another dozen, treat another dozen, treat another dozen and do that 100 times. All 12 are supposed to get better in about 79 of those of those dozens.
You actually kind of need experiments, statistical sampling.
Was it though ?
leeches ?
220
Bd6r
2020 Apr 7, 7:32pm
Bd6r
2020 Apr 7, 7:32pm
marcus says
not 98% of ones who end up in hospital
Yeah, but what does anecdotal evidence even mean when people have a 98% chance of getting better without any medicine ?
not 98% of ones who end up in hospital
221
marcus
2020 Apr 7, 7:35pm
marcus
2020 Apr 7, 7:35pm
:
According to the expert in that video, 2% of the symptomatic die. I'll grant you it's more complicated.
According to the expert in that video, 2% of the symptomatic die. I'll grant you it's more complicated.
222
Bd6r
2020 Apr 7, 7:45pm
Bd6r
2020 Apr 7, 7:45pm
marcus says
it is, no doubt.
Philosophically, the problem is that for 30% of population trump is right no matter what he says. For another 30% he is wrong no matter what he says or does. People on this thread were arguing back and forth that HCQ does not work, just because trump said that it works. Appears that trump was very right, and it was easy to see that this is not a topic in which he can bullshit like he usually does - it is a yes/no issue, and him being a used car salesman, he is skillful enough to see where truth can be stretched to extreme and where not. he probably had some advance report from CDC or FDA or NIH and then he touted "this works!" as a good used car salesman would do.
:
According to the expert in that video, 2% of the symptomatic die. I'll grant you it's more complicated.
it is, no doubt.
Philosophically, the problem is that for 30% of population trump is right no matter what he says. For another 30% he is wrong no matter what he says or does. People on this thread were arguing back and forth that HCQ does not work, just because trump said that it works. Appears that trump was very right, and it was easy to see that this is not a topic in which he can bullshit like he usually does - it is a yes/no issue, and him being a used car salesman, he is skillful enough to see where truth can be stretched to extreme and where not. he probably had some advance report from CDC or FDA or NIH and then he touted "this works!" as a good used car salesman would do.
223
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 9:55pm
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 9:55pm
https://www.khou.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/anti-malaria-drug-being-used-to-treat-texas-city-coronavirus-patients/285-8ada8747-c624-4c8a-8651-64a762086a37
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has announced that 83 patients at a nursing facility in Texas City, Texas, have tested positive for coronavirus, and 30 of those are being administered the antimalarial drug hydroxychloroquine.
“As of today, about 30 patients are being tested with the hydroxychloroquine to determine whether it will be a successful treatment for the patients,” Abbott said on Monday. “They are in the second day of this testing regimen that will last several more days.”
“We look forward to updating you as the week progresses about how this drug is aiding or not these patients,” Abbott said.
224
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 9:58pm
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 9:58pm
https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/04/06/denver-doctor-coronavirus-hydroxycholoroquine/
A Denver family physician has been prescribing a controversial medication to his patients, sick with coronavirus, and believes it is yielding positive results. Dr. Constantine Tsamasfyros, who has been a primary care doctor in Denver for nearly 50 years, told CBS4 Investigator Brian Maass he has prescribed a combination of hydroxychloroquine (also known as Plaquenil) and an antibiotic called azithromycin to about a dozen patients over the last few weeks.
“They all did well. They seemed to reverse their symptoms in a day or two,” said Tsamasfyros, who said he “absolutely” believed the medication was working.
“If they’re drowning, you either pull them out of the water or at least throw them a rope to come out,” he said while explaining his decision to prescribe the medication.
225
Heraclitusstudent
2020 Apr 7, 10:07pm
Heraclitusstudent
2020 Apr 7, 10:07pm
Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....
Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html
I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.
Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html
I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.
226
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 10:17pm
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 10:17pm
Heraclitusstudent says
@Heraclitusstudent : https://patrick.net/post/1331299?offset=0#comment-1660332
Trump's "stake", lol.
Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....
Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html
I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.
@Heraclitusstudent : https://patrick.net/post/1331299?offset=0#comment-1660332
Trump's "stake", lol.
227
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 11:47pm
Patrick
2020 Apr 7, 11:47pm
https://babylonbee.com/news/liberal-treated-with-hydroxychloroquine-hopes-he-still-dies-of-covid-19-to-prove-trump-is-stupid
NEW YORK, NY—When Jeffrey Walton tested positive for COVID-19, he hoped for a speedy recovery. But since he has been treated with hydroxychloroquine, the experimental treatment President Donald Trump has been touting, he now hopes he dies quickly to help prove that Trump is an idiot.
228
theoakman
2020 Apr 8, 7:41am
So Chris Cuomos wife gave an update on his condition and how she's treating it.
"“Since this particular virus has no proven remedy… she assigned oxygenated herbs, natural remedies and homeopathics to boost Chris’ immune system for the battle ahead,” Cristina wrote. As for food, Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals"
That's right, screw those anti-virals. Since those are unproven, we've gone with herbs, natural remedies, and chicken soup. Remember Steve Jobs trying to cure his cancer with juice? I guess innovation has its limits.
"“Since this particular virus has no proven remedy… she assigned oxygenated herbs, natural remedies and homeopathics to boost Chris’ immune system for the battle ahead,” Cristina wrote. As for food, Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals"
That's right, screw those anti-virals. Since those are unproven, we've gone with herbs, natural remedies, and chicken soup. Remember Steve Jobs trying to cure his cancer with juice? I guess innovation has its limits.
229
Shaman
2020 Apr 8, 7:45am
Shaman
2020 Apr 8, 7:45am
So instead of a medication with a 60 year proven track record, she’s going with homeopathic remedies based on folklore because DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES!!! ZOMG!
230
Shaman
2020 Apr 8, 7:56am
Shaman
2020 Apr 8, 7:56am
Heraclitusstudent says
That is total bullshit. If you weren’t so fucking blinded by hate you’d see this as the fake news story that it is. Part of a mutual fund worth maybe $100 is invested in that company. Fuck! I probably have investment in that one too via my own mutual funds! I don’t even know. So how the fuck would Trump know? And he wipes his ass with $100 dollar bills.
Time to grow up and start thinking critically.
Ahh republican ethics in 2020.....
Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html
I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.
That is total bullshit. If you weren’t so fucking blinded by hate you’d see this as the fake news story that it is. Part of a mutual fund worth maybe $100 is invested in that company. Fuck! I probably have investment in that one too via my own mutual funds! I don’t even know. So how the fuck would Trump know? And he wipes his ass with $100 dollar bills.
Time to grow up and start thinking critically.
231
WookieMan
2020 Apr 8, 7:58am
WookieMan
2020 Apr 8, 7:58am
Shaman says
So he has a higher probability of dying.... who cares. Remember, people eat Tide Pods....
Life is finite no matter what. Try and live as long as possible, but the absolute fear of death from this cold was hysterical at first. Now it's just pure stupidity from the media. We all end up 6' under, burned or thrown in the woods or ocean. You will die. Enjoy life. Very difficult to enjoy life when you're told to stay in your house because of fat, old sick people.
So instead of a medication with a 60 year proven track record, she’s going with homeopathic remedies based on folklore because DOUBLE BLIND STUDIES!!! ZOMG!
So he has a higher probability of dying.... who cares. Remember, people eat Tide Pods....
Life is finite no matter what. Try and live as long as possible, but the absolute fear of death from this cold was hysterical at first. Now it's just pure stupidity from the media. We all end up 6' under, burned or thrown in the woods or ocean. You will die. Enjoy life. Very difficult to enjoy life when you're told to stay in your house because of fat, old sick people.
232
Bd6r
2020 Apr 8, 8:05am
Bd6r
2020 Apr 8, 8:05am
theoakman says
I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.
Cristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals
I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.
233
WookieMan
2020 Apr 8, 8:16am
WookieMan
2020 Apr 8, 8:16am
rd6B says
AF jokes about the paid actors. I generally don't believe that tin foil hat stuff. This is 1,000% a case of that though. Not sure if he's being told to do this or he's doing it on his own. ALL interviews I've seen of him he seems perfectly healthy. Shows no symptoms of anything. Whatever though, I'll just get called crazy and people will trust some media mouth piece that needs to, really needs to sell ads right now.
theoakman saysCristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals
I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.
AF jokes about the paid actors. I generally don't believe that tin foil hat stuff. This is 1,000% a case of that though. Not sure if he's being told to do this or he's doing it on his own. ALL interviews I've seen of him he seems perfectly healthy. Shows no symptoms of anything. Whatever though, I'll just get called crazy and people will trust some media mouth piece that needs to, really needs to sell ads right now.
234
Bd6r
2020 Apr 8, 8:22am
Bd6r
2020 Apr 8, 8:22am
WookieMan says
Reelection - I am so brave, I survived corona, re-elect me even though I trashed NY economy! No false flag, but posturing.
AF jokes about the paid actors. I generally don't believe that tin foil hat stuff. This is 1,000% a case of that though. Not sure if he's being told to do this or he's doing it on his own. ALL interviews I've seen of him he seems perfectly healthy. Shows no symptoms of anything. Whatever though, I'll just get called crazy and people will trust some media mouth piece that needs to, really needs to sell ads right now.
Reelection - I am so brave, I survived corona, re-elect me even though I trashed NY economy! No false flag, but posturing.
235
WookieMan
2020 Apr 8, 8:34am
WookieMan
2020 Apr 8, 8:34am
rd6B says
They just put all their faith in Biden... LOL. Based on the coverage I feel like Cuomo's big bro and Prickzer are battling for something. Anyone can call me out later, but I'm about 95% convinced that Biden WON'T be the Dem nominee by the time we get to November. It's going to be one of the two aforementioned governors. We'll see. Quote this if anyone wants to beat me up later....
Reelection - I am so brave, I survived corona, re-elect me even though I trashed NY economy! No false flag, but posturing.
They just put all their faith in Biden... LOL. Based on the coverage I feel like Cuomo's big bro and Prickzer are battling for something. Anyone can call me out later, but I'm about 95% convinced that Biden WON'T be the Dem nominee by the time we get to November. It's going to be one of the two aforementioned governors. We'll see. Quote this if anyone wants to beat me up later....
236
Shaman
2020 Apr 8, 9:36am
Shaman
2020 Apr 8, 9:36am
rd6B says
Yah I made this argument a bunch of times after I got my BS in Chemistry... People never appreciated it. The titration is real.
theoakman saysCristina said she put her hubby on a diet of whole, organic meals, like chicken soup and dishes low in chemicals
I wonder how this idiot came to conclusion that chicken soup does not contain chemicals...water is a chemical, proteins are chemicals, and so on. Revoke er high school diploma.
Yah I made this argument a bunch of times after I got my BS in Chemistry... People never appreciated it. The titration is real.
237
marcus
2020 Apr 8, 10:53am
marcus
2020 Apr 8, 10:53am
rd6B says
I never thought that it doesn't work. Only that it's very difficult to tell, when recovery rates are over 90% anyway, and that many studies say there is little good evidence that it does. I was wishing that it does, and couldn't care less whether Trump get's credit for pushing it.
Even my personal self interest in California not going broke due to a deep recession, not to mention my more altruistic self interest that you may project to not exist, is in favor of such treatments working and far outweighs my not liking Trump and his getting some political credit for whatever works.
HCQ does not work, just because trump said that it work
I never thought that it doesn't work. Only that it's very difficult to tell, when recovery rates are over 90% anyway, and that many studies say there is little good evidence that it does. I was wishing that it does, and couldn't care less whether Trump get's credit for pushing it.
Even my personal self interest in California not going broke due to a deep recession, not to mention my more altruistic self interest that you may project to not exist, is in favor of such treatments working and far outweighs my not liking Trump and his getting some political credit for whatever works.
238
Patrick
2020 Apr 8, 11:41am
Patrick
2020 Apr 8, 11:41am
Also note there there is a big difference in side effects between plain chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine
The media of course stresses the side effects of chloroquine, because they have an agenda, and it's not truth. It's stirring up as much hate as possible to prevent Trump from bringing back manufacturing from China.
Shaman says
It's kind of sad how liberals nurture and propagate their hate above all else. They would be much happier if they could rationally say "well, Trump is kind of sketchy, but he's right that we should not outsource all our antibiotic production to China, giving them the power to cut off life-saving drugs at any time."
WookieMan says
It seems likely that the rich and the people with political power (usually the same) are mostly old, and afraid for their own health. Most people end up with one "comorbidity" or another by the age of 75. So they burn down the economy out of fear.
The media of course stresses the side effects of chloroquine, because they have an agenda, and it's not truth. It's stirring up as much hate as possible to prevent Trump from bringing back manufacturing from China.
Shaman says
blinded by hate
It's kind of sad how liberals nurture and propagate their hate above all else. They would be much happier if they could rationally say "well, Trump is kind of sketchy, but he's right that we should not outsource all our antibiotic production to China, giving them the power to cut off life-saving drugs at any time."
“Having practiced medicine for nearly 30 years, I have seen how foreign dependence, specifically on imports from China, harms the medical supply chain and our readiness for an outbreak firsthand . . . The COVID-19 pandemic has exacerbated problems that were already festering,” Rep. Roger Marshall (R-KS)- from a White House email.
WookieMan says
Very difficult to enjoy life when you're told to stay in your house because of fat, old sick people.
It seems likely that the rich and the people with political power (usually the same) are mostly old, and afraid for their own health. Most people end up with one "comorbidity" or another by the age of 75. So they burn down the economy out of fear.
239
HeadSet
2020 Apr 8, 12:25pm
HeadSet
2020 Apr 8, 12:25pm
It seems likely that the rich and the people with political power (usually the same) are mostly old, and afraid for their own health. Most people end up with one "comorbidity" or another by the age of 75. So they burn down the economy out of fear.
I do not know any mega-rich old people, but all the old people I do know seemed more concerned with their kid's and grand kid's welfare than themselves. Many even make sacrifices because they want to leave inheritances. It seems the mindset of old, rich policy makers may be different than their counterparts in the middle/working classes.
I do not know any mega-rich old people, but all the old people I do know seemed more concerned with their kid's and grand kid's welfare than themselves. Many even make sacrifices because they want to leave inheritances. It seems the mindset of old, rich policy makers may be different than their counterparts in the middle/working classes.
240
Rin
2020 Apr 8, 1:50pm
Rin
2020 Apr 8, 1:50pm
Shaman says
And being a top international drug company, it's in Pharma based ETFs which means that a lot of the unaware investing public has some exposure to it, not just Trump & Co.
And given the fact that it's a generic, the profit margins are already low so it's not even a target novel agent for a major cap gains which is why places like Vertex are always searching tor a more patent-able and thus, more expense new drug lines.
Heraclitusstudent saysAhh republican ethics in 2020.....
Donald Trump Has Stake In Hydroxychloroquine Drugmaker
https://www.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-stake-company-hydroxychloroquine-112913777.html
I love it when my company makes me take a class on conflict on interests every 2 years.
That is total bullshit. If you weren’t so fucking blinded by hate you’d see this as the fake news story that it is. Part of a mutual fund worth maybe $100 is invested in that company. Fuck! I probably have investment in that one too via my own mutual funds! I don’t even know. So how the fuck would Trump know? And he wipes his ass with $100 dollar bills.
Time to grow up and start thinking critically.
And being a top international drug company, it's in Pharma based ETFs which means that a lot of the unaware investing public has some exposure to it, not just Trump & Co.
And given the fact that it's a generic, the profit margins are already low so it's not even a target novel agent for a major cap gains which is why places like Vertex are always searching tor a more patent-able and thus, more expense new drug lines.
241
Bd6r
2020 Apr 8, 3:07pm
Bd6r
2020 Apr 8, 3:07pm
marcus says
I'm not pointing at you, @marcus, I feel that you can be argued with rationally for most
I never thought that it doesn't work. Only that it's very difficult to tell, when recovery rates are over 90% anyway, and that many studies say there is little good evidence that it does. I was wishing that it does, and couldn't care less whether Trump get's credit for pushing it.
I'm not pointing at you, @marcus, I feel that you can be argued with rationally for most
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see https://twitter.com/MichaelCoudrey/status/1241354642417577986
Trump retweeted this.