patrick.net

drB6 says

Take a guess - do Asians need substantially higher scores than the rest to get in, and which races/population groups need the lowest scores to get in?

We all know the answer to that question.

Goran_K says

We all know the answer to that question.

Yes, but some of us will pretend that they do not know the answer, and anyway that is not discrimination unless the same thing would be done to other racial groups.

There are some interesting Asian-American lawsuits now pending. Also, this article is interesting: http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article196035824.html

Advocates also point to a 2009 study by a Princeton University professor that concluded an Asian American applicant would need to score 140 points higher than a white applicant on the 1600-point SAT, 270 points higher than a Latino applicant and 450 points higher than a black applicant to have the same odds of being admitted to 10 elite colleges that he examined.

Who is being discriminated against?

Racism against asians is okay because Democrats need Hispanic and Black votes, not really asian votes.

Goran_K says

Racism against asians is okay because Democrats need Hispanic and Black votes, not really asian votes.

Asians are often independent and successful so it is hard to sway their vote with favorable admission and other advantageous discrimination. However many Asians also work in govt/municipal jobs with good pensions (post office, schools etc.) and Dems know that they already got those votes . I assume the Asian vote is fairly steady and can't be swayed either way much.

mell says

Asians are often independent and successful so it is hard to sway their vote with favorable admission and other advantageous discrimination. However many Asians also work in govt/municipal jobs with good pensions (post office, schools etc.) and Dems know that they already got those votes . I assume the Asian vote is fairly steady and can't be swayed either way much.

It's also very small. I think 2-3% of the national total. Less meaty by Dem standards.

drB6 says

Would you have some quantification as to white privilege?

No, I don't, but I have a feeling if they had a good way to measure it, it would be non-trivial.

I was simply defining what it is, and stating that I think it's just a new word (albeit, a racially charged one) for the same age old thing - stereotyping. I don't really think it implies that whites overall have it better, just that they enjoy certain specific benefits, which is undeniable IMO. But, doesn't everyone enjoy their own specific privileges?

I also agree with the general sentiment in this thread that "white privilege" is invoked mostly by lames as a way to attack, or to justify their own failures / misery. IMO the concept of white privilege is sound and accurate, but the way it gets used in practice is a clever attack on whites that somehow passes under the racism radars and is not only allowed, but strangely encouraged. Just like it's prejudice/racist to assume someone will perform poorly in college because they're black, it's prejudice/racist to tell a white that their success is due to their skin color, not their merit. It may or may not be true, but it's racist because they don't actually know.

Goran_K says

the fact that they benefit despite there being 0 information to suggest that this specific person is deserving of it (aside from their whiteness)

That's called excuse making,

No, it's not. The concept & definition of white privilege has nothing to do with excuse making.

However, the way many people wield & abuse the concept as a way to justify their failings - that is excuse making.

Reality says

So long as the admission standards are tilted, it's also reasonable for employers to assume that White and Asian graduates are more competent than Black graduates.

Yes!

I've always wondered if the very programs meant to help certain classes of people actually harm them more (in other ways).

Lets say an employer hires based purely on merit, and applies the same standards to hiring regardless of color. Now, lets say that they end up with 2.5% black, but they want to get to 5%, so they lower their standards slightly just for black people.

So, compared to the other employees who were hired based on an objective merit standard, 2.5% of the black employees aren't up to standard, and likely to under perform. I think this will lead to other employees seeing this under performance, and developing biases that blacks in general under perform (because, after all, that is truly their personal experience). These people then carry that negative bias with them for a period of time, maybe their whole life, and its breeds the "silent racist".

On the other hand, I think no/less bias would manifest if they stuck to pure merit, because then the employee experience's would have been "my black coworkers perform just as well".

I think this effect happens in software jobs with women - not a ton of female applicants, but employers seem to strive in the direction of hiring equal male / female numbers (although, they don't usually get quite that far). And, this lowered average competence negatively affects the women who are truly great.

I also think this effect happens in college due to race based admissions / affirmative action.

goat says

The concept & definition of white privilege has nothing to do with excuse making.

Okay, so what is it?

If Oprah runs for President, she can give everyone a car.

goat says

So, compared to the other employees who were hired based on an objective merit standard, 2.5% of the black employees aren't up to standard, and likely to under perform. I think this will lead to other employees seeing this under performance, and developing biases that blacks in general under perform (because, after all, that is truly their personal experience). These people then carry that negative bias with them for a period of time, maybe their whole life

This makes perfect sense in both directions (for Asians in other direction). Also, getting rid of an incompetent black female is impossible; incompetent white/Asian male is comparatively easy to fire. Which also makes one think if they should hire that female unless they are absolutely sure she is competent.