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Illinois ponders pension-fund moonshot: a $107B bond sale
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2018 Jan 30, 7:35am 16,937 views 63 comments
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41
lostand confused
2018 Jan 30, 7:18pm
lostand confused
2018 Jan 30, 7:18pm
Who knows maybe Chinese investors, then they will have 30 billion bonds to pay the interest and raise taxes again.
42
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 30, 7:30pm
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 30, 7:30pm
WookieMan says
Brilliant idea! Just have the insolvent states buy each other's debt. They could do this by kiting checks between themselves for a few years. Think of it as a massive circle that ends where all the participants simultaneously pivot to the left and insert their penis into the ass of the state next to them. State sanctioned sodomy at it's finest!
Unfortunately morons looking for double digit returns that likely won't get paid back. Probably CALPERS? Is that the correct acronym for what I think it is that I'm trying to make a bad joke about?
Brilliant idea! Just have the insolvent states buy each other's debt. They could do this by kiting checks between themselves for a few years. Think of it as a massive circle that ends where all the participants simultaneously pivot to the left and insert their penis into the ass of the state next to them. State sanctioned sodomy at it's finest!
43
WookieMan
2018 Jan 30, 7:55pm
WookieMan
2018 Jan 30, 7:55pm
thenuttyneutron says
I'm on board with the sarcasm, hence my comment. But let's all be honest here, isn't this what is actually going on? Again, I dig the comment, but when does this not become funny anymore? For me in IL the chickens are coming home to roost. I literally have a contingency plan to move out of this state. I'm not kidding at all. Why should I need to do this? Oh wait, borrowing $100B will fix this.
WookieMan saysUnfortunately morons looking for double digit returns that likely won't get paid back. Probably CALPERS? Is that the correct acronym for what I think it is that I'm trying to make a bad joke about?
Brilliant idea! Just have the insolvent states buy each other's debt. They could do this by kiting checks between themselves for a few years. Think of it as a massive circle that ends where all the participants simultaneously pivot to the left and insert their penis into the ass of the state next to them. State sanctioned sodomy at it's finest!
I'm on board with the sarcasm, hence my comment. But let's all be honest here, isn't this what is actually going on? Again, I dig the comment, but when does this not become funny anymore? For me in IL the chickens are coming home to roost. I literally have a contingency plan to move out of this state. I'm not kidding at all. Why should I need to do this? Oh wait, borrowing $100B will fix this.
44
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 30, 8:10pm
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 30, 8:10pm
WookieMan says
I feel empathy for you but Illinois is not my problem. You need to get the hell out of Illinois and make it someone else's problem. This may require you to sell your house at a huge discount. Just don't wait too long because many other people like you are going to be doing the same thing. Hell you may not be able to give the house away when the massive exodus is at its peak.
Look at states like Ohio that have low property taxes and a moderate income tax. Retired people with smaller incomes pay little income tax and this benefits older people.
I'm on board with the sarcasm, hence my comment. But let's all be honest here, isn't this what is actually going on? Again, I dig the comment, but when does this not become funny anymore? For me in IL the chickens are coming home to roost. I literally have a contingency plan to move out of this state. I'm not kidding at all. Why should I need to do this? Oh wait, borrowing $100B will fix this.
I feel empathy for you but Illinois is not my problem. You need to get the hell out of Illinois and make it someone else's problem. This may require you to sell your house at a huge discount. Just don't wait too long because many other people like you are going to be doing the same thing. Hell you may not be able to give the house away when the massive exodus is at its peak.
Look at states like Ohio that have low property taxes and a moderate income tax. Retired people with smaller incomes pay little income tax and this benefits older people.
45
WookieMan
2018 Jan 30, 8:20pm
WookieMan
2018 Jan 30, 8:20pm
thenuttyneutron says
It will be if I think it goes down like I think it will. It will cost you minimal dollars, but make no mistake, I predict IL will need a bailout in some form in the next 5-10 years outside of the Dow going to 60k in that time.
thenuttyneutron says
I'm good here. Strong equity in my house. As I mentioned, I have an exit plan. Sad but true.
thenuttyneutron says
Dear god. You picked probably my least favorite state in this country. It MAYBE beats Mississippi or Alabama. Maybe New Mexico (haven't been). Sooooo many better options when you account for everything.
I feel empathy for you but Illinois is not my problem.
It will be if I think it goes down like I think it will. It will cost you minimal dollars, but make no mistake, I predict IL will need a bailout in some form in the next 5-10 years outside of the Dow going to 60k in that time.
thenuttyneutron says
Hell you may not be able to give the house away when the massive exodus is at its peak
I'm good here. Strong equity in my house. As I mentioned, I have an exit plan. Sad but true.
thenuttyneutron says
Look at states like Ohio that have low property taxes and a moderate income tax
Dear god. You picked probably my least favorite state in this country. It MAYBE beats Mississippi or Alabama. Maybe New Mexico (haven't been). Sooooo many better options when you account for everything.
46
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 31, 7:23am
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 31, 7:23am
Why is Ohio your least favorite state? I think that it is a very good state to live in.
My income tax is reasonable ~5%. My property taxes are low at about $2600 per year for a house that cost me $300 k to build. The sales tax is about 6%.
Ohio is also a state that respects civil rights.
The only thing that sucks are the winters. The summers however more than make up for it.
My income tax is reasonable ~5%. My property taxes are low at about $2600 per year for a house that cost me $300 k to build. The sales tax is about 6%.
Ohio is also a state that respects civil rights.
The only thing that sucks are the winters. The summers however more than make up for it.
47
Goran_K
2018 Jan 31, 8:14am
Goran_K
2018 Jan 31, 8:14am
Booger says
I was thinking the same thing. It's literally junk. $100 billion of junk.
What moron is going to buy these bonds?
I was thinking the same thing. It's literally junk. $100 billion of junk.
48
Goran_K
2018 Jan 31, 8:27am
Goran_K
2018 Jan 31, 8:27am
socal2 says
Or those Democrats who created the problem in the first place just get voted out. Better to cut the cancer out than let it remain IMO.
Illinois citizens are going to get raped in higher taxes, your services (infrastructure, education, welfare spending) will be cut, and bond holders are going to lose. But the pain can be alleviated somewhat if the government employees, Democrat politicians/judges and their unions agree to some pension reform.
Or those Democrats who created the problem in the first place just get voted out. Better to cut the cancer out than let it remain IMO.
50
lostand confused
2018 Jan 31, 8:33am
lostand confused
2018 Jan 31, 8:33am
thenuttyneutron says
OH is not bad-just the toll roads are a killer. At least in IL only some roads are tolls and you can go around them. WI has no toll roads-so cool. But I don't think there is much of a difference ebtween OH, IN, IL. once you go past the youth stage-you don't need big cities!
IL the proeprty taxes keep raising and looks like next term that dem frontruner might win. He wants universal healthcare, loves illegals, not a word on obscene proeprty taxes-oh yeah he wants progressive taxes-why do people making 300k ayear-village managers-live off people who make 30-40k a year- dems, dems. They are so off.
Why is Ohio your least favorite state? I think that it is a very good state to live in.
My income tax is reasonable ~5%. My property taxes are low at about $2600 per year for a house that cost me $300 k to build. The sales tax is about 6%.
Ohio is also a state that respects civil rights.
The only thing that sucks are the winters. The summers however more than make up for it
OH is not bad-just the toll roads are a killer. At least in IL only some roads are tolls and you can go around them. WI has no toll roads-so cool. But I don't think there is much of a difference ebtween OH, IN, IL. once you go past the youth stage-you don't need big cities!
IL the proeprty taxes keep raising and looks like next term that dem frontruner might win. He wants universal healthcare, loves illegals, not a word on obscene proeprty taxes-oh yeah he wants progressive taxes-why do people making 300k ayear-village managers-live off people who make 30-40k a year- dems, dems. They are so off.
51
Goran_K
2018 Jan 31, 8:40am
Goran_K
2018 Jan 31, 8:40am
Margaret Thatcher — 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'
Illinois, and California in a nutshell.
Illinois, and California in a nutshell.
52
MrMagic
2018 Jan 31, 8:52am
MrMagic
2018 Jan 31, 8:52am
Goran_K says
and New Jersey, not far behind.
Margaret Thatcher — 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.'
Illinois, and California in a nutshell.
and New Jersey, not far behind.
55
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 31, 10:08am
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 31, 10:08am
lostand confused says
The only toll road that I am aware of is the Ohio Turnpike. It was cheap to use as well with an EZ pass. Chicago has toll roads all over the place. I commuted between Ohio and Chicago for a few years and there is only one complaint from me about Ohio. They enforce the speed limits so you had better not get caught speeding.
I just moved back to the DFW area and it reminds me of Shitcago. I think Dallas is just the "Chicago" of Texas. Dallas is also in trouble with pensions. Thus is why I plan to live in Tarrant County.
OH is not bad-just the toll roads are a killer.
The only toll road that I am aware of is the Ohio Turnpike. It was cheap to use as well with an EZ pass. Chicago has toll roads all over the place. I commuted between Ohio and Chicago for a few years and there is only one complaint from me about Ohio. They enforce the speed limits so you had better not get caught speeding.
I just moved back to the DFW area and it reminds me of Shitcago. I think Dallas is just the "Chicago" of Texas. Dallas is also in trouble with pensions. Thus is why I plan to live in Tarrant County.
56
WookieMan
2018 Jan 31, 10:54am
WookieMan
2018 Jan 31, 10:54am
thenuttyneutron says
I was exaggerating a bit about OH. I just honestly don't get a good vibe when I'm there, which isn't that often. I was there last summer for a wedding just south of Cleveland. It was fine. It reminded me too much of IL though. Taxes and all that other BS aside, if I'm going to leave IL, I really don't want to move to a similar climate. OH is ultimately fine by me, just not my cup of tea with the 48 other options besides OH & IL (I'm not moving to any US territory, get that thought out of your head).
Plus every two years and especially every 4 years OH becomes a political shit hole. I can't even imagine the tv, radio, phone calls, etc. Whether I like it or not, IL is at least not a battle ground state so I don't have to deal with the nonsense that comes with that.
thenuttyneutron says
Texas has always intrigued me, but again, bad vibe. Haven't been to Dallas or Houston since I was a kid. Been to Austin in my 20's maybe 5-6 times and not a fan. Just don't think I could pull the trigger on that state and that's even with the no income tax.
I love the outdoors, including good cold weather activities, so pretty much any state with even somewhat mountainous geography is on my list. CA is too expensive. I love it there, not a fan of the people though, sorry guys. That includes everyone here at Patnet from CA, I don't like you ;)
I'm looking more at AZ, CO, WY, MT, UT, TN, SC, NC and maybe GA north of Atlanta closer to the Smokies. I like weed so CO would probably be number 1 on my list right now.
I'd very likely pick all those states before OH. If I'm going to be cold, I need fucking 11,000' of mountains I can snowboard on. After that I need larger rolling hills or small mountains. 34 years in IL and I'm done with flat land if I'm moving.
The only toll road that I am aware of is the Ohio Turnpike. It was cheap to use as well with an EZ pass. Chicago has toll roads all over the place. I commuted between Ohio and Chicago for a few years and there is only one complaint from me about Ohio. They enforce the speed limits so you had better not get caught speeding.
I was exaggerating a bit about OH. I just honestly don't get a good vibe when I'm there, which isn't that often. I was there last summer for a wedding just south of Cleveland. It was fine. It reminded me too much of IL though. Taxes and all that other BS aside, if I'm going to leave IL, I really don't want to move to a similar climate. OH is ultimately fine by me, just not my cup of tea with the 48 other options besides OH & IL (I'm not moving to any US territory, get that thought out of your head).
Plus every two years and especially every 4 years OH becomes a political shit hole. I can't even imagine the tv, radio, phone calls, etc. Whether I like it or not, IL is at least not a battle ground state so I don't have to deal with the nonsense that comes with that.
thenuttyneutron says
I just moved back to the DFW area and it reminds me of Shitcago. I think Dallas is just the "Chicago" of Texas. Dallas is also in trouble with pensions.
Texas has always intrigued me, but again, bad vibe. Haven't been to Dallas or Houston since I was a kid. Been to Austin in my 20's maybe 5-6 times and not a fan. Just don't think I could pull the trigger on that state and that's even with the no income tax.
I love the outdoors, including good cold weather activities, so pretty much any state with even somewhat mountainous geography is on my list. CA is too expensive. I love it there, not a fan of the people though, sorry guys. That includes everyone here at Patnet from CA, I don't like you ;)
I'm looking more at AZ, CO, WY, MT, UT, TN, SC, NC and maybe GA north of Atlanta closer to the Smokies. I like weed so CO would probably be number 1 on my list right now.
I'd very likely pick all those states before OH. If I'm going to be cold, I need fucking 11,000' of mountains I can snowboard on. After that I need larger rolling hills or small mountains. 34 years in IL and I'm done with flat land if I'm moving.
57
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 31, 11:56am
thenuttyneutron
2018 Jan 31, 11:56am
WookieMan says
I don't mind these ads. I get bored with the drug commercials and the political attack ads are a welcome distraction from the usual shit on TV.
I can't even imagine the tv, radio, phone calls, etc
I don't mind these ads. I get bored with the drug commercials and the political attack ads are a welcome distraction from the usual shit on TV.
58
WookieMan
2018 Jan 31, 12:24pm
WookieMan
2018 Jan 31, 12:24pm
thenuttyneutron says
What? Who doesn't like a good drug commercial with all the side effect fast talk? This drug will help your pancreas, but it could also cause pancreatitis, which can kill you. Talk to your doctor if you have abdominal pain and your other internal organs are failing.
WookieMan saysI can't even imagine the tv, radio, phone calls, etc
I don't mind these ads. I get bored with the drug commercials and the political attack ads are a welcome distraction from the usual shit on TV.
What? Who doesn't like a good drug commercial with all the side effect fast talk? This drug will help your pancreas, but it could also cause pancreatitis, which can kill you. Talk to your doctor if you have abdominal pain and your other internal organs are failing.
59
lostand confused
2018 Jan 31, 12:27pm
lostand confused
2018 Jan 31, 12:27pm
WookieMan says
Yeah I miss the mountains. In CA if you bought a house for 300k you pay 1% of it for evah with very small increases. So it helps in planning. I don't mind income taxes-you only pay on what you make. But high property taxes-you get cancer and your family is out because you can't pay taxes. And for what-so some guy making 300k a year can live off his pension??
CO is very expensive now though-looked into it. I cna move to Salt lake city-I hear it is very polluted though? Phoenix sumers are brutal-but N AZ is a few hours away.
Geograpy wise CA is ideal for me-especially coastal CA. I loved it-beautiful weather, oceans, deserts, mountains and up north temperate rain forests, lava beds, active volcanoes, caves etc etc-just beautiful. But I just can't deal with the SJW types anymore-losing patience as I grow older. TX is nice, but I really don't like the weather-IL is better, winters you just hibernate.
Utah maybe my next move.
'm looking more at AZ, CO, WY, MT, UT, TN, SC, NC and maybe GA north of Atlanta closer to the Smokies. I like weed so CO would probably be number 1 on my list right now.
Yeah I miss the mountains. In CA if you bought a house for 300k you pay 1% of it for evah with very small increases. So it helps in planning. I don't mind income taxes-you only pay on what you make. But high property taxes-you get cancer and your family is out because you can't pay taxes. And for what-so some guy making 300k a year can live off his pension??
CO is very expensive now though-looked into it. I cna move to Salt lake city-I hear it is very polluted though? Phoenix sumers are brutal-but N AZ is a few hours away.
Geograpy wise CA is ideal for me-especially coastal CA. I loved it-beautiful weather, oceans, deserts, mountains and up north temperate rain forests, lava beds, active volcanoes, caves etc etc-just beautiful. But I just can't deal with the SJW types anymore-losing patience as I grow older. TX is nice, but I really don't like the weather-IL is better, winters you just hibernate.
Utah maybe my next move.
60
Booger
2018 Feb 1, 6:51pm
Booger
2018 Feb 1, 6:51pm
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-01/its-baaaaack-illinois-privilege-tax-bill
Illinois Democrats are pushing again for passage of the “privilege tax”
Illinois Democrats are pushing again for passage of the “privilege tax”
61
WookieMan
2018 Feb 1, 7:05pm
WookieMan
2018 Feb 1, 7:05pm
lostand confused says
I know. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeed! Humans dig it, can still function and will move to where it's available. CO wouldn't crash necessarily, but if ganja was legalized nationwide the growth would stop and maybe see a 10% decline in GDP, real estate, etc. in CO. I'm waiting for their mini crash and hope it aligns with the most definite IL crash.
Booger says
This line caught my eye: "It was sponsored by Senator Dan Biss (D-Evanston), who is also a genuine contender for governor."
I don't recall if you've stated where you live in past postings, but if you live in IL as I do, this line is fucking comical from the article. Dan Biss has ZERO chance of getting the nod from the Dems to be their horse in the race. There's a fucking chapstick Kennedy in the race as well. No neck, JB Prickzer will be the Dem nominee. Fuck, this state is really doomed as I read what I'm typing.
CO is very expensive now though-looked into it
I know. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeed! Humans dig it, can still function and will move to where it's available. CO wouldn't crash necessarily, but if ganja was legalized nationwide the growth would stop and maybe see a 10% decline in GDP, real estate, etc. in CO. I'm waiting for their mini crash and hope it aligns with the most definite IL crash.
Booger says
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-01/its-baaaaack-illinois-privilege-tax-bill
Illinois Democrats are pushing again for passage of the “privilege tax”
This line caught my eye: "It was sponsored by Senator Dan Biss (D-Evanston), who is also a genuine contender for governor."
I don't recall if you've stated where you live in past postings, but if you live in IL as I do, this line is fucking comical from the article. Dan Biss has ZERO chance of getting the nod from the Dems to be their horse in the race. There's a fucking chapstick Kennedy in the race as well. No neck, JB Prickzer will be the Dem nominee. Fuck, this state is really doomed as I read what I'm typing.
62
Strategist
2018 Feb 1, 7:16pm
Strategist
2018 Feb 1, 7:16pm
Booger says
Looks like the Illinois government spends most of it's time trying to figure out how to sneak in new taxes without anyone noticing.
That's OK, it's all for a good cause. $300K pensions at 55.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-02-01/its-baaaaack-illinois-privilege-tax-bill
Illinois Democrats are pushing again for passage of the “privilege tax”
Looks like the Illinois government spends most of it's time trying to figure out how to sneak in new taxes without anyone noticing.
That's OK, it's all for a good cause. $300K pensions at 55.
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If this goes down, we might see our first bankrupt state in our country. I don't get how they expect to produce income on the spread of the borrowed money vs. what they invest. IL already basically borrows at some of the highest rates in the country for a government body.
This is literally the equivalent of taking a cash advance on your credit card at 20% interest and then expecting returns of 30%. There's almost no scenario where this works out of IL citizens or the bond holders.
This is another reason I hate the back and forth on Trump. In the next 3 or 7 years if Trump is elected again, he will not even remotely have as much impact on my finances as my state legislative branch does. Next stop on the IL tax train is double digit income taxes. That will literally cost me $10k+ if we go 10% plus on IL income taxes. This is a when not if conversation. Thank god if it gets bad enough I can easily leave.