patrick.net

mell says

You're making a mistake in your thought process here. These 2 are not mutually exclusive

Yes, they are. Progressives are not neocons. Progressives are not hawks. Neocons can adopt a bit of the progressive platform to appeal to the Dem. base, but that doesn't make them a progressive.

socal2 says

- Totally reverse himself on one of his main core issues (H1B Visas) "I'm changing"

Nope.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-position-on-visas

socal2 says

- Denied he praised Putin

Which he never did, only that he accepted Putin's praise and thought it would be great to work with Russia to crush ISIS. TO neocons whose top priority is to suck Saudi Dick and overthrown anti-Radical secular dictators like Assad, this is the same as loving Putin.
socal2 says

- Talked about the size of his dick

The Bottom initiated that BS, Bottom's ass is medium rare and wide as the Intercoastal waterway, and he likes to feel full.
socal2 says

- Proved he knows fuck-all about the size and scope of government spending

But first Term Senators who have missed almost 250 votes and hearings between them are experts. Trump has been the final decision maker on budgets these two have ever come within 0.01% of handling.
socal2 says

- Said he would force the military to commit war crimes "They'll do what I tell them"

Total Twisting.

tatupu70 says

Yes, they are. Progressives are not neocons. Progressives are not hawks. Neocons can adopt a bit of the progressive platform to appeal to the Dem. base, but that doesn't make them a progressive.

Liberal warmongers like Hillary, Nuland, and Powers are "Liberal Interventionists" who selectively apply "Responsibility to Protect" (R2P) to justify military intervention.

We need to honor land borders first, before we get into abstract crap like human rights - and it's easily abused. If it's Human Rights, invading Saudi Arabia should be Job #1.

Ironman says

'd like to see BOTH parties go away and be replaced with the AMERICAN party, that actually serves the people, because we're all in this TOGETHER, but idiots like you love to put "labels" on issues/parties.

Meaningless drivel.

What policies will make it an "AMERICAN" party? Specifics please.

Trump reversed himself on one of his biggest populist promises on immigration last night. "He's changing" as he openly admitted. The problem with the Republican party is that we send Conservatives to DC and they "change" to become Liberals so they can be liked by all of the "Establishment".

thunderlips11 says

Nope.

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/press-releases/donald-j.-trump-position-on-visas

So Trump had a stroke during the debate last night when he said the exact opposite when asked? Another case of having a bad earpiece? The fucker changes his positions every 24 hours now.

www.youtube.com/embed/jTV_nk3nzKU

mell says

You're making a mistake in your thought process here. These 2 are not mutually exclusive. Esp. the hawks on the democratic side use SWJs and progressive left memes to silence their critics - Hillary is all about grrl power and more feminism and now selling herself as the voice for the black people. There is no reason why the progressive left cannot go on a warpath, they may welcome oriental rapefugees, but they are all for battling evil Russia with its conservative anti-gay policies. And they are willing to silence and imprison/oppress anybody not agreeing with their ideology. It would be naive to underestimate their hostility and candid appreciation of fascism (on their terms).

This post made me more excited than Marco Rubio seeing a Bear at a Foam Party. Right on!

thunderlips11 says

- Said he would force the military to commit war crimes "They'll do what I tell them"

Total Twisting.

Dude is a total fascist. I know that is why you swoon for him.

www.youtube.com/embed/QqpvpVEHyBI

socal2 says

So Trump had a stroke during the debate last night when he said the exact opposite when asked? Another case of having a bad earpiece? The fucker changes his positions every 24 hours now.

Bullcrap, You can see his core Trade position from Oprah 30 some odd years ago, hasn't changed. His H1-B visa position is the same - it's not for entry level, not to replace Americans already in the job, have to exhaust all possibilities finding Americans first, and has to be strictly limited to critical shortages.

Considering the Audience, Mods, and of course his competitors were hammering him, he stumbled a bit. The Lion still came out mostly unhurt from his tangle with the Jackals.

socal2 says

Dude is a total fascist. I know that is why you swoon for him.

No, the fascists are the GOPe and Clinton wing: The blending of Corporate Power with State Power and Endless War.

A guy who brags that he will win more Minority Votes than anyone in recent memory, who wants to work with other Great Power Rivals, etc. is no Fascist.

We haven't seen an American nationalist in so long, anything that isn't total Cuck to Corporations Open Borders and One-sided Trade looks Extreme.

Trump's positions, if in the US, Canada, UK 1930-1990, would be boringly bourgeois.

thunderlips11 says

Bullcrap, You can see his core Trade position from Oprah 30 some odd years ago, hasn't changed. His H1-B visa position is the same - it's not for entry level, not to replace Americans already in the job, have to exhaust all possibilities finding Americans first, and has to be strictly limited to critical shortages.

Trump "exhausted" all opportunities to hire Americans for his Mar-a-lago resort?

"Since 2010, nearly 300 United States residents have applied or been referred for jobs as waiters, waitresses, cooks and housekeepers there. But according to federal records, only 17 have been hired."
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/26/us/politics/donald-trump-taps-foreign-work-force-for-his-florida-club.html?_r=0

The man is a living breathing fraud.

socal2 says

Trump "exhausted" all opportunities to hire Americans for his Mar-a-lago resort?

Job is 50-60 hours per week, and peak season is October-March, the exact opposite of when College Students are available - unlike other areas where the peak resort season in the Summer time.

He created 17 jobs for Americans - how many have Rubio and Cruz employed outside Government or Politics?

Lifetime Government officials criticizing a Billionaire who employs 22,000 people - unbelievable.

"Not a real Conservative" - INDEED!

mell says

And they are willing to silence and imprison/oppress anybody not agreeing with their ideology. It would be naive to underestimate their hostility and candid appreciation of fascism (on their terms).

Bullcrap. Who has ever been imprisoned for not agreeing with liberal ideology?

Anybody hardcore for either side of the establishment are blind shit wolves....
When it's ok for the leaders to cut the books in half concerning federal law as to
what applies to them and the pubic acts like it is no problem.... You definitely have
problems... And when nothing changes..... nothing changes....

PS Marriott Hotels, Club Med, and others aggressively shift their employees around internationally, for the purposes of maximizing hospitality. It's par for the course.

But that's something that a GOP official wouldn't understand, not being in any kind of productive enterprise.

BTW, I think Trump was suckered a little bit last night. With the article about Ailes dumping Rubio, articles about the GOPe accepting Reality, etc. he may have thought he wasn't going to get Megyn'd, and walked into an ambush. Even so, he fired both sides of the ship and kept moving forward, which is the correct strategy.

Ironman says

He specifically referenced this last night saying they were part time, seasonal jobs and many Americans who applied were looking for full time jobs.

300 Americans applied for the part time jobs. But Trump chose foreign labor over Americans so he could make more money on their slave wages. So I guess you can argue that these 300 Americans were too stupid to know what they were applying for, or that the jobs Trump was offering were "Jobs Americans won't do".

But as Thundercommie just said - it's just "par for the course". Everyone does it. Trump can't be expected to live by the campaign promises he tells his cult followers.

People thinking Trump will reform shit are high on crack. He will go along to get along as he has done his entire life.

I'm just messing with you ducky.....got to have a sense of humor.... Your ok,
Don't take yourself to serious now.....

thunderlips11 says

BTW, I think Trump was suckered a little bit last night. With the article about Ailes dumping Rubio, articles about the GOPe accepting Reality, etc. he may have thought he wasn't going to get Megyn'd, and walked into an ambush. Even so, he fired both sides of the ship and kept moving forward, which is the correct strategy.

Oh FFS. Trump thought maybe he wouldn't be asked some tough questions? Otherwise he would have ran away like he did on the last Fox debate?

What questions were out of bounds?

Remember the last Fox Debate that Trump bailed on where both Cruz and Rubio were presented with videos of their flip flops on immigration and other issues? Just imagine if Trump was made to explain his massive hypocrisy and flip-flops at that debate based on all of the video they have on Trump's past statements? In retrospect, it was smart for Trump to run away from that debate to keep his cult in the dark.

socal2 says

thunderlips11 says

- Said he would force the military to commit war crimes "They'll do what I tell them"

Total Twisting.

Dude is a total fascist. I know that is why you swoon for him.

When Trump talks of taking out a few families, it's a "war crime", but of course when Cheney supports torture it isn't. When Obama drones weddings parties, it isn't.
Instead of taking out the few right people, you prefer the US army to go in respect the rules and leave a trail of 100,000s bodies full of American shrapnel. Because at least it's not a "war crime".
This shows how the US doesn't really have what it takes to impose its will in a region like the middle east. The US army goes in and you can't even control the road from the airport to Baghdad. The Wehrmacht would have done it. And there aren't 50 ways to go about it.

Heraclitusstudent says

Cheney supports torture it isn't. When Obama drones weddings parties, it isn't.

The U.S. has lost its will to hold the executive accountable. And now some voters actively support a candidate promising to commit war crimes and wips his tiny shrivelled penis with the Constitution.

Heraclitusstudent says

When Trump talks of taking out a few families, it's a "war crime", but of course when Cheney supports torture it isn't. When Obama drones weddings parties, it isn't.

Instead of taking out the few right people, you prefer the US army to go in respect the rules and leave a trail of 100,000s bodies full of American shrapnel. Because at least it's not a "war crime".

Do you consider the brother of a terrorist one of the "right people"? His crime being born into the wrong family?

Heraclitusstudent says

When Trump talks of taking out a few families, it's a "war crime", but of course when Cheney supports torture it isn't.

Trump wasn't just talking about collateral damage. He was talking about PURPOSEFULLY killing terrorist families to deter terrorists.

tatupu70 says

Do you consider the brother of a terrorist one of the "right people"? His crime being born into the wrong family?

socal2 says

Trump wasn't just talking about collateral damage. He was talking about PURPOSEFULLY killing terrorist families to deter terrorists.

Funny. You guys think this is about justice? Judging who is guilty or not?
This is exactly why the US is totally impotent in this kind of cases.

Heraclitusstudent says

Funny. You guys think this is about justice? Judging who is guilty or not?

This is exactly why the US is totally impotent in this kind of cases.

And what do you think?

socal2 says

Trump wasn't just talking about collateral damage.

The term collateral damage is totally specious btw. Who is to know what information was present when the decide to shoot a wedding. Who is to know what was overlooked, and who gives a damn about it. It's like "oh I killed your family? oops sorry, my bad."

tatupu70 says

And what do you think?

I think if this is what you think you're better off staying off the middle east and focusing on defenses in the US.

These are not criminals carrying an id plate. They are bands of people acting for ideological reasons. You kill one, some other one immediately replaces him. There is no id, there is no notion of culpability. All you can do is set incentives at a very general level.

Heraclitusstudent says

I think if this is what you think

And by "this" -- you are referring to the thought process of "innocent until proven guilty"? Pretty much the core belief of the US system of government?

Heraclitusstudent says

you're better off staying off the middle east and focusing on defenses in the US.

I don't disagree with this statement. We've pretty much screwed up every time we've tried to do anything there.

Heraclitusstudent says

The term collateral damage is totally specious btw. Who is to know what information was present when the decide to shoot a wedding. Who is to know what was overlooked, and who gives a damn about it. It's like "oh I killed your family? oops sorry, my bad."

There is a big moral and legal difference in knowingly harming or killing an innocent person in YOUR CUSTODY to get after a bad guy.

As opposed to one of our soldiers in Afghanistan getting shot at by the Taliban who throws a grenade into a window and accidentally kills the Jihadi's wife.

Oh well - Trump just reversed himself on torture. All is well.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-reverses-his-stance-on-torture-1457116559

This fucker changes his positions every few minutes.

Trump will totally be solid on immigration and trade once he gets into the White House. Dude is solid like a rock!

I'm all for limiting Muslim Immigration except to highly Westernized, very secular ones in small doses. Like Britain in the 1960s, only the Train Conductors, the Dentists, all of whom went to English Language Secular Schools.

Eventually a large Muslim population will use political pressure and we can say goodbye to Israel's top supporter. Only hope would be to get the Poles and Hungarians to realize Israel is the Acre against the Jihad. Also, I see what is happening in Europe and I can do without.

SCOTUS has never challenged the right of Congress to discriminate against national origin and refuse those it believes are incompatible with modern secular democracy.

socal2 says

This fucker changes his positions every few minutes.

The meat of politics.... All the fuckers do-it.... naive to think otherwise isn't it?

socal2 says

As opposed to one of our soldiers in Afghanistan getting shot at by the Taliban who throws a grenade into a window and accidentally kills the Jihadi's wife.

It's more likely solely using Cell SIMs to track Terrorists. In third world countries, everything is PAYGO, some terrorist lends a phone to a grandma who has nothing to do with jack shit, she goes over to the next village to a wedding, and BOOM! hellfire attack. No terrorists are killed, government claims every male 12-100 is a "military age male", but it's all civilians.

Just FYI - Clinton was for torture, before she was against it, with the "Ticking Time Bomb" bullshit.

Polifact: Obama Claims Clinton Changed on Torture - TRUE

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/feb/01/barack-obama/clinton-changed-on-torture/

Just like she bashed Obama for being pro-gun control in 2008; now she bashes Bernie for not being very interested in Gun Control now.

Graybox says

The meat of politics.... All the fuckers do-it.... naive to think otherwise isn't it?

Within 24 hours? And then back again?

And on key campaign promises like H1B Visas?

thunderlips11 says

Just FYI - Clinton was for torture, before she was against it, with the "Ticking Time Bomb" bullshit.

Clinton was for the Iraq war before being against it.
Clinton was against gay marriages before being for it.
Clinton was for trade deals before being against them.
etc etc

Is that the new argument for Trump? Yes, he lies--but so does Clinton. Yes, he flip flops--but so does Clinton. Pretty soon it will be, yes he has a small package, but look at Hillary--she doesn't have anything.

By the way - notice the SJWs Socal dislikes - as do most of us - aren't going to the little tiny meetings Cruz and Rubio are having with the True Believers. The SJWs are targeting Trump and Bernie, of all people. BLM all over Bernie, not Hillary very much. "Bernie Bros" say the Rad Fems.

Anti-Trump GOPe Crack Force

"We gotta stop this guy - he'll stop our buddies from Outsourcing all the Jobs! He'll endanger our Corporate Inversions!"

socal2 says

There is a big moral and legal difference in knowingly harming or killing an innocent person in YOUR CUSTODY to get after a bad guy.

Sure and once you start a war, morality takes the back sit, doesn't it?
Let me give a few examples:

- If some resistant killed an officer, what would the Wehrmacht do? Round up the first 10 (civilian) men they can find and execute them. That sets "general incentives" and expectations.

- Remember Lebanon, how many western hostages were taken there? How many Russians? There was a Russian hostage once. But Russian services captured the wife of one of the men involved and proceeded to ship her back piece by piece. There wasn't too many Russian hostages after that.

You want to be all "fair" and "moral", I strongly recommend not going to war. War is about imposing yourself violently with all the ferocity you can muster. Being half-assed about it just gets more people killed.

Heraclitusstudent says

Remember Lebanon, how many western hostages were taken there? How many Russians? There was a Russian hostage once. But Russian services captured the wife of one of the men involved and proceeded to ship her back piece by piece. There wasn't too many Russian hostages after that.

You want to be all "fair" and "moral", I strongly recommend not going to war. War is about imposing yourself violently with all the ferocity you can muster. Being half-assed about it just gets more people killed.

That's crap. Killing the wife will make 100 more terrorists.