patrick.net

SoftShell says

I don't see US troops there....

I see American Capital Managers and ex-USAID/State Dept. Employees given citizenship in under 24 hours with no debate in the Rada posted to high positions.

I bet there are Americans training the Ogres, for what good it will do against battle hardened Chechen police and military used to years of fighting with Wahabi raiders.

The Ukr government will last until the EU/US/IMF package gets way too harsh. Then they will say "Better cold soup with the Russians, then under the bridge frozen with the Americans"

You think the US/EU is going to buy 50% of their exports, mostly heavy equipment, that Russia buys?

This is just Neoconlib deliberate chaos creation.

Well, I can't discount your view as you seem to have more insight into the situation on the ground....ya gotta remember, I'm just a troll coming up every now and then to breathe some legitimate air...

thunderlips11 says

This is just Neoconlib deliberate chaos creation.

I bet these patriots would lay down their AK's if they could rock M16A4's fresh from their American Kamerads.

Nato Nazis.

Robert Sproul says

Nato Nazis.

Want to buy a bridge? I have one slightly used for sale.

Straw Man says

Want to buy a bridge? I have one slightly used for sale.

Sure, I can always use a bridge.

That is the Azov Battalion. They are fucking Nazis.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/azov-far-right-fighters-ukraine-neo-nazis

if they were to use any kind of nukes in ukraine, they'd get their Swift badge revoked faster than dan can post naked dude pix..
Then you would see a true financial meltdown of the old bitch....

bgamall4 says

SoftShell says

so russia will nuke ukraine if they defend themselves with antitank weapons?

thunderlips11 says

"Our words are backed with nuclear weapons."

They have strategic nukes.

Robert Sproul says

Straw Man says

Want to buy a bridge? I have one slightly used for sale.

Sure, I can always use a bridge.

That is the Azov Battalion. They are fucking Nazis.

The picture you've posted has been debunked as a fake. If there are so many nazis running around and with camera in every fucking toaster nowadays, why the fuck do you need to post a Photoshopped image?

I bet if they were russian Yinon Zionist bags draped in false flags you'd be doing the Horah at the titty bar in the Luxor...

bgamall4 says

How many Russian body bags are coming back from the Ukraine? That is insane.

Straw Man says

debunked

Yeah? Show me the debunked part.
Anyway, they are neo-nazi thugs and they are killing civilians.
You have to have your head pretty far up Obama's anus to deny that.

Reagan would know what to do. Accidentally say something stupid on-mic?

Cut and run?

Supply the Chechens with money, weapons and training? Stand there, mouth open wide when they come back and blow YOU up?

Ahhh. That Reagan!

Robert Sproul says

That is the Azov Battalion. They are fucking Nazis.

Straw Man says

The picture you've posted has been debunked as a fake. If there are so many nazis running around and with camera in every fucking toaster nowadays, why the fuck do you need to post a Photoshopped image?

Robert, the Nazi Flag is photoshopped in there. But everything else, including the two guys doing the Heil Hitler Salute and the SS N-rune, is not fake. Azov is full of Nazis and fascists, from Sweden to Italy, all announcing they are "Social Nationalists" to interviewers. As if switching the word order would fool anybody but a Khokhol.

Here's a reburial of SS Nazi Volunteers being reburied with full honors and a priest in West Ukraine.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/55LoMZeJlSQ

So Ukraine sends the worst of their worst, the Donbas, Dnipro and Azov brigades to the front lines to fight and take back territory Russia ( oh i mean the rebels ) have illegally confiscated. These neonazi thugs are probably the toughest out of their mind fighters Ukraine can employ.

They succeed in reclaiming territory for Ukraine, while having their numbers trimmed down in the process by russian ( oh I mean rebel ) artillery.

Sounds like a win/win for Poroshenko..

let em have their funerals...it means one less neonazi to deal with...

thunderlips11 says

Here's a reburial of SS Nazi Volunteers being reburied with full honors and a priest in West Ukraine.

SoftShell says

I don't see US troops there....

Russia is not there according to them...

seems like an internal civil war...

Everybody has stayed out of Donbass.

thunderlips11 says

Stay the hell out of Donbass.

Do you remember the "Bay of Pigs"? Ukraine is exactly same thing, except this time US won unlike Kennedy. It's in the history books, same story, except it's Ukraine and not Cuba.

too early to tell who won...wait to see how much more of Ukraine russkie inhales...if not all of it.

FortWayne says

Do you remember the "Bay of Pigs"? Ukraine is exactly same thing, except this time US won unlike Kennedy. It's in the history books, same story, except it's Ukraine and not Cuba.

SoftShell says

too early to tell who won...wait to see how much more of Ukraine russkie inhales...if not all of it.

FortWayne says

Do you remember the "Bay of Pigs"? Ukraine is exactly same thing, except this time US won unlike Kennedy. It's in the history books, same story, except it's Ukraine and not Cuba.

My worries that this will lead to a full scale war. And that's dangerous, if WW3 will occur, we'll die out worse than dinosaurs.

SoftShell says

So Ukraine sends the worst of their worst, the Donbas, Dnipro and Azov brigades to the front lines to fight and take back territory Russia ( oh i mean the rebels ) have illegally confiscated. These neonazi thugs are probably the toughest out of their mind fighters Ukraine can employ.

Novorussiya was given to Ukraine by the Soviets after the 1920s.

Here's a poster from before it was undemocratically shifted into Ukraine by the Communists (to balance out the industry/proles in Donbass/Left Bank Ukraine with the peasant farmer rednecks in the west of Ukraine):

Donbass is the Heart of Russia.

Most cities in Donbass were founded by the Tsars. Lugansk, Odessa, etc. The population is overwhelmingly Russian speaking.

They don't want to live in a country that worships villains like Stepan Bandera, where their kids will learn that murderers like Roman Shukhevych are "National Heroes". It would be like waking up tomorrow and finding out Benedict Arnold was a "National Hero".

SoftShell says

Sounds like a win/win for Poroshenko..

Word on the street is that Porky doesn't mind who he sells to.

SoftShell says

too early to tell who won...wait to see how much more of Ukraine russkie inhales...if not all of it.

If Russia is wise it will reject Galicia-Volyhnia. I promise lots of chortles over the laws that country would pass if independent. Mel Gibson's Dad would feel right at home there, and so would most Sedevacantists.

Russia may not have to do jack. It may just sit back and wait for the IMF/EU/US pressure to work it's magic on the already shitty living standards of Ukraine.

Of course, when the Ukies finally realize they have a government of foreign bankers (they already know they're Oligarchs, but they're "Full of Hope and Change", thinking it will somehow work out if the EU/US is involved hahahaha), any unrest will be blamed on you-know-who.

and therein lies the cause of most wars. land grabs, grants, tranfers, ....all boils down to change of ownership that segments of population can't handle.
If you are justifying russian reoccupation of novorussiya because some people don't think it's legit after 94 years and counting....well that brings into play just about every piece of real estate on the planet...

thunderlips11 says

Novorussiya was given to Ukraine by the Soviets after the 1920s.

If we had a representative government, we wouldn't be in this conflict, or have started it. This was began by the CIA who engineered a coup, then the Russian side of Ukraine couldn't handle the new nazi government that illegally seized power, so they turned to Russia for help. Russia came to their rescue, they voted to join Russia, and then the nazis invaded, a jetliner was downed under extremely suspicious circumstances, and the USA shows up to openly condemn Putin for opposing tyranny, and declares tha it will kill the Russian economy in retaliation.
Makes me proud to be an American...

How much did the CIA pay Yanukovych to shoot his own people?

Do you think Obama would be president today if he ordered ferguson protesters to be shot?

Quigley says

This was began by the CIA who engineered a coup

a tiny segment of the government, which you've blown way out of proportion. not unlike the communist and nazi parties of america. why do you hate political freedom?

Quigley says

then the Russian side of Ukraine couldn't handle the new nazi government that illegally seized power

they are all ukrainians, as of 1920's...
there is no 'russian' side...

Quigley says

then the Russian side of Ukraine

actually, russia is not involved at all. didn't you hear??

Quigley says

Russia came to their rescue,

i'll grant you this part. smart of ukraine to put the skinhead segment of the population front and center...they are vicious and will fight well, and they will have their numbers paired down by russian ( oh i mean rebel ) artillery.

Sounds like a win/win for Poroshenko..

Quigley says

and then the nazis invaded

kinda like texas voting to secede...illegal bullshit.
but hey, that never stopped the bluenecks...

Quigley says

they voted to join Russia,

nothing suspicious about this. all damning evidence points to rebels shooting russian provided antiaircraft missiles at it.

Quigley says

a jetliner was downed under extremely suspicious circumstances,

Don't forget the other 98% of the world showing up too...

Quigley says

and the USA shows up to openly condemn Putin for opposing tyranny,

SoftShell says

If you are justifying russian reoccupation of novorussiya because some people don't think it's legit after 94 years and counting....well that brings into play just about every piece of real estate on the planet...

Not reoccupation, correcting a tyrannical land transfer. There was no "reoccupation" because Russia didn't "Occupy" the Crimea anymore than the US "occupies" Texas or California.

As for Donbass, Putin has stated he prefers it to be part of a federal Ukraine that respects the vote, and where Lvov SS collaborators don't have a shit fit and overthrow the government with US help everytime they don't get what they want (which will be often, given the larger population in the east).

SoftShell says

How much did the CIA pay Yanukovych to shoot his own people?

Yankovytch's police were shot at by ultranat/nazi elements within the protesters. Then, snipers of unknown origin - and Yats/Porky don't seem very interested in investigating this mystery - shot protesters on both sides, just like in another US backed coup in 2004.

There's a reason you have seen the "Victims" of the police being paraded around on TV, it's because they are covered in tattoos, and not of flowers and butterflys.

In a Democracy, you have to put up with governments you don't like until the next elections. The Western-Ukrainians can't win an election without US interference. Yankuvytch won the last real election fair and square and certified by international observers.

Even more, Yankuvytch promised to hold early elections just a few weeks after he was ousted.

Duly elected Yankovytch's removal was a coup, and the people who voted for him have every right to oppose the coup regime. As for successive elections, they were done by replacing the Constitution, intimidating the opposition by beatings, and "Lustrations" - banning the opposition from government.

Just google it. There are countless incidents of elected officials being beaten by crowds of ultranats.

bad choice of word by me. not 'reoccupy', but 'reclaim'
as for 'correcting a tyrannical land transfer' that can be applied to most territorial changes....after how many years does a transfer of land become 'valid'?...who gets to make that decision???

I don't see any tyranny in russia 'granting' the territory to Ukraine...it wasn't back then, but people today who don't agree will call it tyranny...
again, this approach can be applied to most countries today.

It would be an everlasting world war....you could have 10 different armies fighting over the same territory, each with a different claim to the land based on some point in history.

Bottom line: possession is all that really matters.

thunderlips11 says

SoftShell says

If you are justifying russian reoccupation of novorussiya because some people don't think it's legit after 94 years and counting....well that brings into play just about every piece of real estate on the planet...

Not reoccupation, correcting a tyrannical land transfer.

So where did you get this information?
The BBC report does not coincide with yours at all...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26868119

He identified Maj Dmytro Sadovnyk as commander of a unit suspected of shooting dead at least 17 protesters.

"From the side of the the Zhovtnevy Palace, a special squad from the riot Berkut police, wearing yellow armbands, opened fire at the protesters. Much of this fire was targeted. We are carrying out ballistics tests on the weapons," Mr Avakov said.

thunderlips11 says

Yankovytch's police were shot at by ultranat/nazi elements within the protesters. Then, snipers of unknown origin - and Yats/Porky don't seem very interested in investigating this mystery - shot protesters on both sides, just like in another US backed coup in 2004.

"Bottom line: possession is all that really matters."

If that's true, then why should we interfere with possession or any transfer of possession? Why not let Kim Jong Un possess the Crimea? Who gives a shot what the people there want. Why should they get the government they want when Americans don't even get that?
Have I made your point, Softshell?

No. You've missed it completely.
my point is that it is foolish to use 'correcting a 90 year old tyrannical land transfer' as an excuse to invade another sovereign country as that same claim can be made for just about any country on earth, be it by 'land transfer', 'by force', or whatever...

Now, taking action against a country invading another one is a different subject matter and is what you are referring to below.

Quigley says

"Bottom line: possession is all that really matters."

If that's true, then why should we interfere with possession or any transfer of possession? Why not let Kim Jong Un possess the Crimea? Who gives a shot what the people there want. Why should they get the government they want when Americans don't even get that?

Have I made your point, Softshell?

this can be argued ad nauseam either way. it all boils down to which source of information you believe..

thunderlips11 says

Yankovytch's police were shot at by ultranat/nazi elements within the protesters. Then, snipers of unknown origin - and Yats/Porky don't seem very interested in investigating this mystery - shot protesters on both sides, just like in another US backed coup in 2004.

SoftShell says

this can be argued ad nauseam either way. it all boils down to which source of information you believe..

Who cares who is right or wrong? Wars are never about right or wrong, it always turns into millions of innocent people dying for the causes of the wealthy aristocracy.

When I was young, nobody wanted wars, nobody liked wars except for governments. Today, I see way too many with very adolescent view of bloody conflicts, they see it as a video game, they don't understand the misery these things cause to human race at the end.

Merry Christmas from the Donbas.

Stevie Wonder, as sung by a Siberian "Polite Green Man" Volunteer.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/qfwo7JHvLMM

And the causes of the wealthy aristocracy are either right or wrong.
you are employing circular logic.

FortWayne says

Who cares who is right or wrong? Wars are never about right or wrong, it always turns into millions of innocent people dying for the causes of the wealthy aristocracy.

They better be prepared to wait a long, long time.

bgamall4 says

SoftShell says

if they were to use any kind of nukes in ukraine, they'd get their Swift badge revoked faster than dan can post naked dude pix..

They are setting an alternative system to swift, and they can wait.

UnionPay is rolling out, the SWIFT alternative is being placed, and there's going to be yet another system introduced for the Shanghai Cooperation Organization next year (China, SE Asia, Central Asia, Russia and I believe, New Zealand).

No, they are never right. Ends justifying the means are nazi and modern politics philosophy, none of that is right. sacrificing poor for political plots of entrenched aristocracy is not human.

SoftShell says

And the causes of the wealthy aristocracy are either right or wrong.

you are employing circular logic.

FortWayne says

Who cares who is right or wrong? Wars are never about right or wrong, it always turns into millions of innocent people dying for the causes of the wealthy aristocracy.