patrick.net

None of this would have happened if Russia would have just built a nice Olympic Fort like they were told to do.

darlag says

Blowback! EU upset that Russia would dare fight back over Ukraine sanctions

If you blow someone, it's only fair they blow you back.

You wanna be the Bully's little helper, Europe? Pay the Price!

This is another great Putin Judo/Chess move.

The EU countries most dependent on Agricultural exports are the PIGS - Portugal, Italy, Greece, and Spain. They're also still struggling to recover from the Great Recession. They're also the ones that are pushing for loosening the Euro and debt rules. Also in big trouble are the Baltic states, where the vast majority of the fish haul is sold to Russia, and they're also not doing so great these days.

This further drives a wedge within the EU, and it's pressure on Germany for sure.

Suck on some Fruit, Obama

http://www.l7iPnao3zqU

So... correct me if I'm wrong... but it almost appears that some of you guys are Putin cheerleaders?

Ah man that video was only 1:28 they cut out the best part.

edvard2 says

but it almost appears that some of you guys are Putin cheerleaders?

No it's just refreshing to see a world leader for a change. This monkey dance has been going on for far long enough. And I would be calling this a Monkey dance if McCain or Romney was in charge. I am making a reference to dancing monkeys in a circus and not the Liberal view that any reference to a primate when a minority is concerned is a racial slur. But that's not the fucked up part. The fucked up part is I had to write three times more than was necessary to preemptive address the Liberal race baiters. Which all goes to my original assessment. We're in serious leadership deficit in this country.

Leader number 1 is more interested in keeping his peanut gallery entertained than being the the leader of the free world.

edvard2 says

So... correct me if I'm wrong... but it almost appears that some of you guys are Putin cheerleaders?

Putin is the ideal conservative candidate. He's doing in Russia exactly what conservatives want done in America:

1. Establish a state religion, Christianity.
2. Ban gays.
3. Suppress women rights groups.
4. Use the military to take over land and national resources that belong to other nations.
5. Always be the aggressor.
6. Ride around like a gay cowboy. Reagan played a cowboy. Putin is a cowboy.

Why American Social Conservatives Love Anti-Gay Putin

in a strange twist of historical fate, many of those self-same religious conservatives who cheered wildly when Ronald Reagan denounced the “Evil Empire,” are citing Russia as the world's foremost defender of traditional values. Their turnaround is oblivious to the country's broader political climate; after all, Russia today under the heel of President Vladimir Putin is arguably less free than it was in the late stages of the Soviet Union under Mikhail Gorbachev. Rather, their newfound enthusiasm for the men inside the Kremlin has everything to do with the Russian government’s anti-gay crackdown, a crackdown they relish seeing take place here in America.

Conservatives are a bunch of pinko commie scumbags. Now J. Edgar Hoover has two reason to prosecute their asses.

CaptainShuddup says

No it's just refreshing to see a world leader for a change. This monkey dance has been going on for far long enough.

A world leader? I assume you are not referring to Putin... right? Because I mean you know, since his return to office the amount of foreign investment in Russia has fallen dramatically, freedom of the press and freedom of speech has been heavily reduced, the average life expectancy of the average Russian male is something like 60 due to an out of control nation-wide alcohol consumption problem ( vodka) that would make the worst typical alcoholic blush, and then decides to intervene in another country's affairs because the ( how dare they!) decided they wanted to join the EU and not stay with them?

Please correct me if I'm mistaken. I just surely assumed you must have meant Obama because I can't imagine anyone thinking that Mr Putin is exactly a "World leader"...

...and is any body laughing?

Are they? You tell me. I certainly wasn't. I wouldn't think that comparing Putin to a "world leader" in any sort of a positive spin would make for great comedic material. So I suppose to answer directly- no. Nobody is laughing.

So then you tell me who you would rather lead. The class Clown that everyone is laughing at, or the guy dolling out "Oh Shit"'s.

CaptainShuddup says

So then you tell me who you would rather lead. The class Clown that everyone is laughing at, or the guy dolling out "Oh Shit"'s.

Let me get this straight... are you seriously asking me whether I would want Putin or Obama to lead the US? You've got to be fucking kidding me! Really?! Jesus Christ...

The only people calling the President a "class clown" are right wingers removed from reality and if any of the above comments indicate anything, that reality seems to be getting further and further away from them.

It would be a fantasy of mine to have some of you guys sit in front of my grandparents, great uncles and others who served in WW1, WW2 and Vietnam and see what they thought. Pretty sure they wouldn't exactly have kids words for you folks.

edvard2 says

It would be a fantasy of mine to have some of you guys sit in front of my grandparents, great uncles and others who served in WW1, WW2 and Vietnam and see what they thought. Pretty sure they wouldn't exactly have kids words for you folks.

I would after you explained your self. I would be happy to. I was warned about people like you by those folks. I think they would be glad to see me keeping the fort. And wonder how in the Russia become the smartest man in the room.

CaptainShuddup says

I would after you explained your self. I would be happy to. I was warned about people like you by those folks. I think they would be glad to see me keeping the fort. And wonder how in the Russia become the smartest man in the room.

I can tell you that I come from a background of highly patriotic people who stand up for their country and would have NEVER in a million years proclaimed a man who stands against the principles of American freedom as being a "world leader" No- I can tell you that you'd probably get about half a sentence in before you would be politely asked ( we are polite Southerners) to leave or they would ask what the fuck you were talking about.

But seriously- were you really asking me whether I'd want Putin or Obama to lead? I want a direct "Yes" or "No" because I want everyone on this forum to see that was the case.

I'm impressed that he's leading his country with out getting sucked into the Liberal mental "Gimmie all your fucking money!" Eurozone, and the Do as we say not as we do Americans. Would I want him to lead this country. Well no, I don't want ANY foreigner to lead this country. Unlike you and the millions of other idiots that voted for a Kenyan.

You seriously need to do some hardcore reading if that's what you think. The entire economy there is totally corrupt. Either way this conversation is an embarrassment. Anytime I assume that I've read perhaps the dumbest statement online I find yet another and I'm not sure whether to be depressed, amazed, amused, or to be laughing my ass off.

I've wasted enough time on this already. If some of you guys think Putin is so great then move to Russia then.

I will after you move to Iowa.

edvard2 says

So... correct me if I'm wrong... but it almost appears that some of you guys are Putin cheerleaders?

Let's see:

Afghanistan
Iraq
Syria
Libya
Egypt

Bahrain
Pakistan
Yemen
Sudan

All these countries are in worse shape, with more deaths, often with Islamists nut jobs MORE powerful than they were before we interfered (certainly in Iraq, Syria, and Libya) because people don't like to be bombed, anymore than Americans would like it if French drones decided to bomb the KKK and occasionally hit the Junior High School, Trailer Park BBQ, or Outdoor Wedding instead by Mistake

This is a complex idea that Ivy League International Relations School graduates, Columbia University Community Organizers, MBA/Law School Corporate Lobbyists, and other "Very Serious" People at the New York Times like Tom Friedman and Roger Cohen and David Brooks have a hard time understanding.

Or, they simply don't care because they feel the end justifies the means, even though there is no end in sight. Whatever explanation works with Occam's Razor.

None of these are Russia's fault.

Which country sends hundreds of thousands of troops, hundreds of tanks, fighter jets, ships, etc. to invade other countries to the tune of trillions of USD, or spends billions alternately overthrowing and supporting dictators and "Democracies" in the last few years?

The sooner the American Empire ends, the sooner we can spend money on Americans.

Imagine the several trillion spent on the Hyperinterventionism had been spent instead on the Space Program, Infrastructure and Bridge Repair, School Modernization, and basic Research and Development instead.

In their annual End of Year poll, researchers for WIN and Gallup International surveyed more than 66,000 people across 65 nations and found that 24 percent of all respondents answered that the United States “is the greatest threat to peace in the world today.” Pakistan and China fell significantly behind the United States on the poll, with 8 and 6 percent, respectively. Afghanistan, Iran, Israel and North Korea all tied for fourth place with 4 percent.

thunderlips11 says

The sooner the American Empire ends, the sooner we can spend money on Americans.

The Islamic empire would take over the world if the American empire ended. No thanks.

Strategist says

The Islamic empire would take over the world if the American empire ended. No thanks.

No chance. The Arabs can't design and make a tank or even a rifle by themselves. Nor washing machines, toilets, or cars.

They're just about at the point that they can make mass production carbonated beverages and imitation fried chicken restaurants.

And even if by magic they could, they lack something else: Unified Population. Saudi Arabia can't take over the world because their population is too small. Even if they united with all the other Gulf States in one empire.

To be a world hegemon, you need more than just oil.

Thanks Putin!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/07/russias-ban-on-american-food-imports-is-going-to-hit-the-u-s-poultry-pork-and-nut-industries-the-hardest/

Looks like Beef, Pork and Chicken just got cheaper for Americans.

Brazil poultry companies excited about Sanctions, looking forward to replacing American and European Companies supplying Russia

Brazil poultry farms quite easily can meet the demand for chicken on the Russian market in connection with the Russian decision to halt agriculture imports from some countries, Brazilian Animal Protein Association President Francisco Turra said on Wednesday.

The Brazilian capacities allow supplying additional 150,000 tonnes of chicken to Russia to fully make up for the U.S. quota. The 150,000 tonnes may be Brazilian, Turra said.

Brazil supplied 60,000 tonnes of chicken to Russia last year, and the South American country have exported a total of more than 300,000 tonnes to Russia, the association president said.

Recently, the Russian veterinary control service permitted 20 chicken suppliers in Brazil to enter the Russian market, he added.

By increasing supplies to Russia, Brazil already this year may reach the level of four million tonnes, a record for it, the vice-president and the head of the poultry sector of the association, Ricardo Santin, said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin decreed on August 6 to ban or halt for a year agriculture imports from the countries that supported economic sanctions against Russia.

Russia has escalated an economic battle set off by the crisis in Ukraine with a ban on all food imports from the United States and on fruit and vegetables from the European Union, dropping any pretence these might be for food safety reasons.

Remember, the US spied the fuck out of Petrobras, the Government, and other companies in Brazil.

The only US/UK you can get these stories is in the business section that the Proles don't read. In the Prolefeed "News" Section, none of this will be mentioned. Only re-written press releases about how all the Russians are going to starve to death.

Russian Food Company's stock prices skyrocketing.

Shares in one of Russia’s biggest agricultural holdings Razgulay shot up 39.87 percent by Friday afternoon, according to Moscow Stock Exchange data.

Stocks in the Russian Sea fish and Seafood producer surged 34.85 percent, GlavTorgProduct stocks also rose 35 percent.

Meat manufacturer Cherkizovo saw an 8.25 percent rise, the Ostankino meat processing plant had an 18.5 percent boost.

This increase has far outpaced the overall dynamics of Russia’s key indices, the RTS and MICEX, which were up 0.92 percent and 0.38 percent respectively.

This ain't your momma's Russia. Sanctions are great because they give domestic Russian companies a chance to expand and develop without competing with Western Firms.

thunderlips11 says

Which country sends hundreds of thousands of troops, hundreds of tanks, fighter jets, ships, etc. to invade other countries to the tune of trillions of USD, or spends billions alternately overthrowing and supporting dictators and "Democracies" in the last few years?

You seem to be making a logical error here. US mistakes don't make Putin any better.

CaptainShuddup says

Thanks Putin!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/07/russias-ban-on-american-food-imports-is-going-to-hit-the-u-s-poultry-pork-and-nut-industries-the-hardest/

Looks like Beef, Pork and Chicken just got cheaper for Americans.

Gonna have to do some bbq this weekend.

tatupu70 says

You seem to be making a logical error here. US mistakes don't make Putin any better.

When has Putin gone halfway around the world and invaded or destabilized a government, only to leave it worse off than it was?

And mistakes? More like Deliberate Policy.

Hey, has Obama sanctioned the military coup leaders in Egypt yet for overthrowing democratic elections? When do the sanctions against Saudi Arabia start - they execute Gays, "Witches and Sorcerers", and just sent a lawyer to prison for 15 years for writing an internet blog. Love the commitment to Human Rights. Or are these just more "Mistakes"?

I'm really Puzzled, what has Putin done? Has he reopened the Gulags?

And don't give me Pussy Riot. If you can blame Putin for Pussy Riot, over which Moscow cops and judges had authority, then you can blame Obama for the spray peppering of Occupy Protesters. Putin spoke many times about the need for leniency. Did Obama ask for leniency for Celicy McMillian (who should have had the charges dropped AND been paid for damages by the NYPD)?

As for corruption...

PCGyver says

edvard2 says

the average life expectancy of the average Russian male is something like 60 due to an out of control nation-wide alcohol consumption problem

Actually it is more something like 65%. Which by the way is highest level since the fall of the Soviet Union. Just sayin.

Nope, not even close.

If alcoholism really were immutable, the inevitable result of Russian culture or even some sort of genetic predisposition to booze, then you would expect the broad economic improvements of the past decade to have had no impact. They would have washed over society without any real changes. In reality, though, Russian drinking patterns have improved substantially. Just since 2010 per-capita consumption of alcohol has fallen by 25% from 18 liters per year to 13.5. That’s a very significant change in behavior over a very short period of time.

This is part of the US 1950s era level of growth in the standard of living for Russians, which all started until Evil Putin(tm).

How's Obesity and Diabetes doing in the United States?

Yeltsin and Princeton Neoliberal Economists aren't running Russia anymore like in the 90s, and the difference is stunning.

thunderlips11 says

tatupu70 says

You seem to be making a logical error here. US mistakes don't make Putin any better.

When has Putin gone halfway around the world and invaded or destabilized a government, only to leave it worse off than it was?

He does it every day. Proxy wars in Syria, Iran, Israel, and Iraq to name a few.
You see Putin is a lot smarter then us, he does his thing cheaply and without boots. We do things with a lot of fanfare, boots and money, only to achieve nothing.

Strategist says

He does it every day. Proxy wars in Syria, Iran, Israel, and Iraq to name a few.

Israel? Pretty strange that Israel and Russia have such a great relationship, then. Russia does not fund Hamas.

Syria? You mean Russia is selling weapons to Assad to use against Muslim Rebel Fanatics ISIS, that John Kerry and Obama wanted to support, and who are now also butchering people in Iraq?

Iran? What wars is Iran fighting?

Iraq? He sent military aircraft to Iraq's leader Maliki - a government we ourselves helped install - weeks ago. We're just now sending help.

Strategist says

We do things with a lot of fanfare, boots and money, only to achieve nothing.

You mean we make it worse. Christians, Druze, Alawites, Yezadi, Sunni-not-sunni-enough and others weren't butchered in Iraq or Syria, until the Muslim Radicals came along, because of the chaos we created.

How about we mind our own business?

thunderlips11 says

Strategist says

He does it every day. Proxy wars in Syria, Iran, Israel, and Iraq to name a few.

Israel? Pretty strange that Israel and Russia have such a great relationship, then. Russia does not fund Hamas.

Syria? You mean Russia is selling weapons to Assad to use against Muslim Fanatics.

Iran? What wars is Iran fighting?

Iraq? He sent military aircraft to Maliki - a government we also support - weeks ago. We're just now sending help.

You are good at comebacks thunderlips. I'll respond after I get back this afternoon, especially on Syria and Iran.

Strategist says

You are good at comebacks thunderlips. I'll respond after I get back this afternoon, especially on Syria and Iran.

Join the Dark Side! Together you and I shall redirect the F-35 money into the SuperHornet, and spend the savings putting a man on Mars!

thunderlips11 says

When has Putin gone halfway around the world and invaded or destabilized a government, only to leave it worse off than it was?

Is it better if you destabilize the government of a country next door?

thunderlips11 says

And mistakes? More like Deliberate Policy.

Again--who cares. If you want to argue the US government sucks, I might disagree, but it doesn't mean Putin is good.

thunderlips11 says

I'm really Puzzled, what has Putin done? Has he reopened the Gulags?

Seriously? OK, I'll compile a list for you.

tatupu70 says

Is it better if you destabilize the government of a country next door?

I'm sure the US would just sit back if Russia sponsored a Putsch in Mexico, and wouldn't dream of funding "Patriots" in Mexico against the "Coup".

We've been here before: The Syrian elections are invalid, because of fighting. The Ukrainian elections are valid, despite the fighting (and despite the banning of opposition parties and the terrorizing of Opposition Party MPs and public media figures by ultranat thugs).

tatupu70 says

Again--who cares. If you want to argue the US government sucks, I might disagree, but it doesn't mean Putin is good.

You said they were mistakes, not me.

tatupu70 says

Seriously? OK, I'll compile a list for you.

Looking forward to it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/us/23prison.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Dan8267 said, "Putin is the ideal conservative candidate. He's doing in Russia exactly what conservatives want done in America:
1. Establish a state religion, Christianity.
2. Ban gays.
3. Suppress women rights groups.
4. Use the military to take over land and national resources that belong to other nations.
5. Always be the aggressor.
6. Ride around like a gay cowboy. Reagan played a cowboy. Putin is a cowboy."

I mostly agree. Putin is a conservative! Let's break down your list.
1. This is not quite true. It is true that he have state preference to the Russian Orthodox Church, and listens to their suggestions. However you are still free to be any other religion in Russia. Since Putin made this move, Russians have gone from being hardcore drug and alcohol users, suicides, and depressives to being productive church goers. No longer do tens of thousands of abandoned babies languish in orphanages. Russians are drinking less and living longer.
2. Gays aren't welcomed, but it's not criminal to be one. They aren't getting rights or a parade though, which conservatives like. Duh!
3. Women have all the rights they need. The right to perform naked sexual perversions in church doesn't exist and never should exist. If they did that shit in America, they'd still be in jail. But hey, congrats on swallowing Neocon anti-Russia propaganda!
4. I'd argue they've used their military conservatively to support the rights of Russians who are under governments of adjoining nations.

I was thinking about this last night. Maybe its because I don't have Television anymore, but up until yesterday I was totally unaware that there were American conservatives who seemed to have some admiration Putin or something.

To me its simply about the most ironic thing possible. Ironic because for YEARS we Democrats ( I consider myself a moderate to even more conservative-leaning Democrat) have been told that we're a buncha' communist-socialists and anytime that Obama even whispers a hint of anything like healthcare, any environmental regulation, raises in the minimum wage and so on- why conservatives just about go ape-shit claiming that Obama is some sort of reincarnation of Joseph Stalin, a socialist, or whatever else conveniently works for them and their continued portrayal of the Democratic party as being otherwise communist in general.

But oh, what do we have here? Apparently a lot of conservatives who have this apparent love affair with Vladmir Putin. Like I said, I wondered how in the hell that could be. So I did a quick little search online and ta-da... This supposed love affair wasn't something the typical conservative just up with on their own. Nope. It- like most of the things conservatives like to say- came from the typical who's who of the conservative media ( talk shows, cable news, ect etc...) So in other words they're just repeating what they heard and not bothering to question the reasoning.

But that's enough of that nonsense. Let's talk a little about reality. The reality of the situation is that Putin has greatly reduced the amount of freedom in Russia, basically taking back control of the media and severely limiting free speech. That's a fundamental freedom we in the US enjoy. If anything Putin is coming closer and closer to returning Russia to the Soviet Union. So I find it ironic that some of the people on this site seem to be suggesting that things are sooooo much better there than here in the US? Can I ask what planet you're from? And secondly, any of you conservatives who called Democrats communists now have zero credibility. if you guys are going to sing Putin's praises then you have no business accusing Democrats of being communists when at the same time basically showing admiration to a guy who in reality IS actually trying to return his country to a communist state.

But anyway, I'm baffled. So far the only arguments I've seen can be boiled down to the following:

" Oh yeah? Well the US did some not so great stuff too, so that means whatever Putin does is ok!" Sure- nobody is arguing that we- the US- haven't also had our hands buried deep in the muck. But does that mean that things are all peachy-keen in Russia? Does it mean that all of the crap they've been up to as of late is excusable? of course not.

thunderlips11 says

Nope, not even close.

Yep- and here's a report that's a year newer than yours:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/russian-men-losing-years-to-vodka

Quigley says

1. This is not quite true. It is true that he have state preference to the Russian Orthodox Church, and listens to their suggestions.

Yep - Nobody complains about Roman Catholicism as the official state religion of Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Ireland, and Austria.

Or Lutheranism in Scandinavia.

With the official state religion getting various government subsidies.

Or British religious schools that get funding from Parliament.

It's only bad when Russia does it.

edvard2 says

I was thinking about this last night. Maybe its because I don't have Television anymore, but up until yesterday I was totally unaware that there were American conservatives who seemed to have some admiration Putin or something.

If this is directed at me, I'm not a conservative. I'm a Social Democrat, who believes the best mix of Socialism and Capitalism was achieved in the 50s and 60s in the USA.

The Democrats have moved to the right, both socially, economically, and foreign policy-wise. They are to the right of a 50/60s era liberal Republican on Economic issues.

edvard2 says

Yep- and here's a report that's a year newer than yours:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/russian-men-losing-years-to-vodka

This study tracks alcohol consumption in only three cities over 11 years. It does not track alcohol mortality across Russia over 20 years like mine did. It's now lower than since the collapse of the Soviet Union. You'll note the peak of alcoholism occurred under the Neoliberal American Economist Adviser's reign of terror in the mid 90s, the same people who proposed Bank Deregulation and "Destroying the Chinese Wall" between investment and commercial banking.

How many Americans die from Obesity? Is that number declining, or skyrocketing? What real steps, beyond Ad Council PSAs, is the US government taking?

thunderlips11 says

This study tracks alcohol consumption in only three cities over 11 blah blah blah..years. It does not blah blah blah..

Ok, if we're going down to the granular details in typical pissing contest fashion, lets remove the subject of alcohol in general and simply look up some simple stats: what is the average life expectency of the typical Russian male? Here is the result: Somewhere around 63 years. Granted there has been some improvement, but that's still shockingly low. So you have to ask yourself the reasons why its that low. Nuff' said.

But either way, let me ask you something: Would you rather live in Russia or the US and for whichever choice you provide, explain why.

Some other things that are bandied about Russia in this century as if it was the last:

Population Shrinking/Emmigration.

Population just become more naturally stable than Germany's
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2012/07/06/germanys-demographic-crisis-is-now-worse-than-russias/

PCGyver says

Interesting chart. I had a feeling after looking at the mortality rates that a lot of drinking took place right after dissolution of the Soviet Union.

When people say things that are easily shown to be BS it is hard to believe anything else they have to say.

It's an ill wind that blows no minds.

Yep. Russia is just great. I thought I'd heard it wasn't that hard to immigrate there.

edvard2 says

Ok, if we're going down to the granular details in typical pissing contest fashion, lets remove the subject of alcohol in general and simply look up some simple stats: what is the average life expectency of the typical Russian male? Here is the result: Somewhere around 63 years. Granted there has been some improvement, but that's still shockingly low. So you have to ask yourself the reasons why its that low. Nuff' said.

Fine, I accept that.

How fast do you want Russia to recover from the USSR and the 90s Shock Capitalism? Is a near-doubling of the GDP per head in just 12 years not enough? From Sri Lankan levels to Polish levels in a decade?

Poland got billions of USD and Euros in outright cash, low-interest loans, and trade subsidies, post-Soviet Russia is much larger than Poland in both population and land area, yet got a fraction of what Poland got in aid (or loans, unlike EU/US aid to Poland were high-interest and non-guaranteed).

And Poland STILL has mass emmigration, the highest in the EU.