patrick.net

Dan8267 says

support voter ID laws designed to keep minorities from voting

But the Democrats are exactly as racist, so it evens out.

It's true, I tell you!

Dan8267 says

an we just admit that one third of Americans are just plain stupid and should not be allowed to vote or reproduce?

coming from a Lib like you... too rich!

Dan8267 says

I'm guessing that the further away their guesses were from Ukraine's actual location, the more likely they were to

- be religious

- oppose marriage equality

- reject evolution

- support voter ID laws designed to keep minorities from voting

- want to cut "entitlements" but not the military

Can we just admit that one third of Americans are just plain stupid and should not be allowed to vote or reproduce?

When you place the Ukraine inside the borders of the continental United States, you shouldn't have a voice when it comes to important decisions.

A war with Russia over Ukraine is just not gonna happen.
I would also say some wars to prevent larger wars are necessary. eg. If we had gone to war against Hitler in the 1930's, World War II, which caused unprecedented destruction, and cost 60 million lives could have been prevented.
To say all wars in this day and age are dumb, does not equate.

Not really. Libertarians and libertarian leaning politicians are the only ones who really want to stop the costly (lives and money) incessant meddling of the US military/CIA in affairs/wars they have no business or justification whatsoever to stuff their noses into the first place. Republicans and Democrats = the same.

Strategist says

To say all wars in this day and age are dumb, does not equate.

True, and no one has ever said that.

However, as you pointed out, a war with Russia over Crimea would be stupid.

Strategist says

If we had gone to war against Hitler in the 1930's, World War II, which caused unprecedented destruction, and cost 60 million lives could have been prevented.

If we had NOT gone to WW1 and tipped the scales between two exhausted sides, WW2 wouldn't have happened.

Why would a voter ID law keep minorities from voting?

A driver ID law did not seem to discourage them from driving.

If someone cannot produce a photo id, they should have all their assets confiscated and the booty should be deposited into social security fund.

Dan8267 says

Can we just admit that one third of Americans are just plain stupid and should not be allowed to vote or reproduce?

Based solely on Obama's releection, I can support this.

thunderlips11 says

If we had NOT gone to WW1 and tipped the scales between two exhausted sides, WW2 wouldn't have happened.

I also think we made a mistake going to war to support British ans French colonial expansion, as was the case with WW1.

Peter P says

Why would a voter ID law keep minorities from voting?

Texas Voter ID Law Discriminates Against Women, Students and Minorities

Republicans Admit Voter-ID Laws Are Aimed at Democratic Voters

Voter ID Laws Could Disenfranchise 1 Million Young Minority Voters

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/24/texas-ag-admits-minorities-voted-republican-suppress-votes.html

The entire intention of voter ID laws is to prevent legitimate voters from voting. That's why all the states covered by the Civil Rights Voting Act are exactly the states pushing for these laws.

There is NO OTHER REASON for these laws. It's not to prevent in person voter fraud because that does not happen because there is nothing to gain and everything to lose and it's easy to get caught. What actually happens is absentee ballot voting, but republicans don't want to touch that because they are mostly from republican-voting military personnel.

If you want to stop the little voter fraud that is happening, you have to get rid of absentee ballots. And that means fewer votes for Republicans. End of story.

If someone does not have a photo id it means that they are on the margins of society, so they should at least arrive to voting precinct in style and blast this song:

"Rock N Roll Nigger

Baby was a black sheep. Baby was a whore.
Baby got big and baby get bigger.
Baby get something. Baby get more.
Baby, baby, baby was a rock-and-roll nigger.
Oh, look around you, all around you,
riding on a copper wave.
Do you like the world around you?
Are you ready to behave?

Outside of society, they're waitin' for me.
Outside of society, that's where I want to be.

(Lenny!)

Baby was a black sheep. Baby was a whore.
You know she got big. Well, she's gonna get bigger.
Baby got a hand; got a finger on the trigger.
Baby, baby, baby is a rock-and-roll nigger.

Outside of society, that's where I want to be.
Outside of society, they're waitin' for me.

(those who have suffered, understand suffering,
and thereby extend their hand
the storm that brings harm
also makes fertile
blessed is the grass
and herb and the true thorn and light)

I was lost in a valley of pleasure.
I was lost in the infinite sea.
I was lost, and measure for measure,
love spewed from the heart of me.
I was lost, and the cost,
and the cost didn't matter to me.
I was lost, and the cost
was to be outside society.

Jimi Hendrix was a nigger.
Jesus Christ and Grandma, too.
Jackson Pollock was a nigger.
Nigger, nigger, nigger, nigger,
nigger, nigger, nigger.

Outside of society, they're waitin' for me.
Outside of society, if you're looking,
that's where you'll find me.
Outside of society, they're waitin' for me.
Outside of society. (Repeat)
"

Dan8267 says

The entire intention of voter ID laws is to prevent legitimate voters from voting.

It's to prevent voter fraud, which apparently the Democrats depend on.

If there were any legitimate concern for election integrity, George W. Bush would have never been president.

Also, if there were any legitimacy to needing a standardized photo ID, then
1. The government would pay for it.
2. It would be hand delivered to each voter years before it was required at booths.
3. There would be an election in which the ID was not required to vote but used anyway to get a count of people who didn't have it but should.
4. Those people would be hand delivered an ID and there would be an investigation as to why they weren't delivered an ID before.
5. In each election in which the ID is used, people would still be allowed to vote without it, but their votes would be counted and logged separately to determine after-hand if they were legitimate voters. Only the non-legitimate votes would be discounted and those people prosecuted. All legitimate voters would be hand delivered an ID.

The fact that these provisions are not advocated by voter ID proponents reveals their intentions clearly. There is no reason why using the above provisions we can't guarantee every legal voter an ID that proves they can vote. But doing so completely defeats the sole purpose of voter ID laws: to circumvent voting laws to rig elections.

I see Dan is projecting again...

Are dead people automatically registered as democrats? I would think the photo ID might expose this corrupt activity, as certainly at least some, of the dead people would register as republicans?

indigenous says

I see Dan is projecting again...

Are dead people automatically registered as democrats? I would think the photo ID might expose this corrupt activity, as certainly at least some, of the dead people would register as republicans?

I call bullshit.

1. Votes by dead people are extremely rare. Two known such voters. Contrast that to the million people who would be denied their right to vote (see previous linked evidence) and it's clear that the intent of the voter ID laws isn't to make elections more honest.

Math for republicans: 1,000,000 is greater than 2. Much, much greater.

2. The zombie voters "Ten out of 16 times... voted by absentee ballot."

Evidence
Maryland Reporter

At least two dead voters showed up to vote at least once in a Maryland general election between 2004 and 2008, according to a voter registration watchdog group that has reviewed thousands of voter records this year, 1% of the rolls in the largest counties.

That's right, 2 out of thousands.

Mary Dowling, 67, who currently resides in a nursing home in Timonium, has two voter registration numbers. The latest voting records that are available show Dowling has been voting twice in almost every even-year election since 2002, in both the general and the primary. Ten out of 16 times Dowling voted by absentee ballot.

The last election Dowling said she remembered voting in was the 2006 gubernatorial election, when she said she voted for Republican candidate Robert Ehrlich. Beyond that, Dowling said she doesn’t believe she voted in either the 2008 or 2010 elections, or that she ever voter twice.

Once again, to attack what little fraud there is, remove all absentee voting.

Remember, the one election in our history that was altered by election fraud was the false election of Bush. Allowing him to be president was the worst endorsement of election fraud. If we were serious about ending election fraud, we would undo all of his policies to prevent the moral hazard of rewarding election fraud.

Oh, and that election fraud was committed by the vote counters, not the voters.

Dan8267 says

I call bullshit.

I see your bullshit and raise you one fact:

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

I find it interesting that this pivotal swing state says, "The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents."

"Dumbest Americans Support war"
You mean like Obama bombing Libya and wanting us to go to war in Syria?

Call it Crazy says

That doesn't count because it was decided by the Dems... They get a 'pass"....

AKA the projection rule/phenomenon

indigenous says

I find it interesting that this pivotal swing state says, "The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents."

I don't -- it just means they aren't purging voter rolls when people move.

The actual amount of voter fraud prevented by these voter ID acts is almost non-existent, as has been shown numerous times. It's solely about voter suppression/voter intimidation, and the people who want these laws have admitted it as such.

clambo says

"Dumbest Americans Support war"

You mean like Obama bombing Libya and wanting us to go to war in Syria?

Yes, Obama is black bush. Hilary is Bush with a penis.

They don't.
You don't.
Corporations do.

Dan8267 says

When you place the Ukraine inside the borders of the continental United States, you shouldn't have a voice when it comes to important decisions.

indigenous says

I see your bullshit and raise you one fact:

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-facts-figures

I have to question the so-called facts on a political site. How many invalid, in-person votes have been cast? Practically none. How many invalid, absentee ballets been cast? Orders of magnitudes more than in-person, yet still small.

How many legal votes would be prevented by voter ID laws? Over a million. What scumbag believes that preventing a handful of illegal votes justifies preventing a million legal votes? Which has a greater impact on elections.

People who propose these voter ID laws are lying scumbags who do not want elections to be ran fairly and accurately. That is the bottom line.

prodigy says

They don't.

You don't.

Corporations do.

Dan8267 says

When you place the Ukraine inside the borders of the continental United States, you shouldn't have a voice when it comes to important decisions.

Although corporations have far more sway over government than the common man, when it comes to war the opinion of a hundred million Americans, dumb as they may be, has an impact.

Anyone who doesn't have an ID is not a functional citizen.

However, I agree absentee ballots can be abused. I never understood this concept but it should be abolished except for military of course.

The line must and will be drawn at NATO borders, wherever they lie.
The big question is: Will Putin test this line via Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.
Not that he has much to gain, except probing the limits of a weak America.

Dan8267 says

Strategist says

To say all wars in this day and age are dumb, does not equate.

True, and no one has ever said that.

However, as you pointed out, a war with Russia over Crimea would be stupid.

Yes, Most corporations are vulnerable to product boycotts.

Dan8267 says

Although corporations have far more sway over government than the common man, when it comes to war the opinion of a hundred million Americans, dumb as they may be, has an impact.

clambo says

Anyone who doesn't have an ID is not a functional citizen.

The solution to that problem is not to violate people's most basic civil rights, but rather to ensure that everyone has a legal ID and to pay the costs with taxes on the rich.

Ending poverty enriches us all in the long run.

corntrollio says

I don't -- it just means they aren't purging voter rolls when people move.

The actual amount of voter fraud prevented by these voter ID acts is almost non-existent, as has been shown numerous times. It's solely about voter suppression/voter intimidation, and the people who want these laws have admitted it as such.

Since the only way a vote can be fair and true is to actually be able to verify that who is voting is a registered voter.

In Mexico they have far more stringent voter id cards required.

Eric Holder has decided that the voter roles cannot be purged for whatever bullshit reason he pulls out of his ass. This happened in Fla. and Ohio, not a coincidence that these are crucial swing states.

There was an incident in Minnesota where they kept having recounts, and finding ballots in the backs of cars, until the vote came out in Franken's favor.

There was another incident where the governor of Washington kept having recounts until she won because the SOS found 162 votes that came from one address at a mental institution. Which swung the election for her.

Dan8267 says

I have to question the so-called facts on a political site. How many invalid, in-person votes have been cast? Practically none. How many invalid, absentee ballets been cast? Orders of magnitudes more than in-person, yet still small.

That is tautology you can't just keep repeating it until it somehow comes true.

Dan8267 says

How many legal votes would be prevented by voter ID laws? Over a million. What scumbag believes that preventing a handful of illegal votes justifies preventing a million legal votes? Which has a greater impact on elections.

In order to have a fair and just election the voter's ID has got to be checked, period.

Dan8267 says

People who propose these voter ID laws are lying scumbags who do not want elections to be ran fairly and accurately. That is the bottom line.

This is what I mean by projecting.

indigenous says

There was another incident where the governor of Washington kept having recounts until she won because the SOS found 162 votes that came from one address at a mental institution. Which swung the election for her.

I call bullshit. You made the mental institution thing up. There were 162 ballots found on a mail tray that hadn't been previously counted:
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2002122510_ballotmystery17m.html

These 162 were in King County, but there were also several trays of ballots found in at least 4 other counties. Washington is odd in that absentee ballots must only be *postmarked* by election day, not received.

There were two recounts -- the automatic recount by the state of Washington because the initial result was so close, and then a hand manual recount paid for by the Democratic party, as is their right under Washington election law. The hand recount meant that counted ballots were scrutinized to make sure they were valid and that disqualified ones were scrutinized to make sure they were invalid. It turns out that many absentee ballots including a member of the King County Council's were wrongfully disqualified.

This election for Governor Gregoire was greatly vetted through courts in conservative counties in Washington, and the Republican challenges were still rejected. Rossi's people even complained about a few felons who had voted improperly, and it turned out that all or most of those felons lived in counties that he won and were more likely to have voted for him. And in fact, 4 felons' votes were removed from Rossi's count specifically because they were ineligible to vote -- I believe only 1 other vote was specifically excluded because it was illegal, and it wasn't for Gregoire -- it was for the 3rd party candidate.

indigenous says

There was an incident in Minnesota where they kept having recounts, and finding ballots in the backs of cars, until the vote came out in Franken's favor.

No idea where you're getting this "backs of cars" thing. The Franken/Coleman election was challenged automatically with a hand recount because it was so close (just the one). When you do a hand recount, as in the case of Washington, you carefully scrutinize ballots to make sure that counted ones were valid and to make sure that disqualified ones were rightfully disqualified. Both Franken and Coleman made several challenges, and in the end Franken was up by a little over 300 votes, after the numerous court challenges by Coleman (many of which were likely to prevent the Democrats from having 60 votes in the Senate, rather than to actually make a bona fide challenge).

I'd also add that the Ramsey County authorities found 28 instances of voter fraud and in Hennepin County, they found 6. This is still far less than the margin, and I don't know whom these people voted for.

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

I have to question the so-called facts on a political site. How many invalid, in-person votes have been cast? Practically none. How many invalid, absentee ballets been cast? Orders of magnitudes more than in-person, yet still small.

That is tautology you can't just keep repeating it until it somehow comes true.

1. A tautology is a statement that is true by self-reference. For example, Too much of anything is bad.

2. Therefore, questions cannot be tautologies.

3. And tautologies are always true regardless of whether or not they are even stated once.

What color is the sky in your world?

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

How many legal votes would be prevented by voter ID laws? Over a million. What scumbag believes that preventing a handful of illegal votes justifies preventing a million legal votes? Which has a greater impact on elections.

In order to have a fair and just election the voter's ID has got to be checked, period.

In order to be fair, Constitutional, and legal, no person must be denied the right to vote even without such an ID. The imaginary in-person voter fraud you are pretending to prevent, could easily be prevented by verifying the person's identity on spot using fingerprinting to ensure no fraud and immediately creating a voter ID and giving it to the person for free.

Put simply, even the requirement of a voter ID should not in any way, shape, or form prevent a person without one from voting. Whatever process is required for the voter ID to be required can be done onsite at the voting both. Even if a delay is required, the vote can be cast and conditionally counted; the vote would be removed only if the state proves it was an illegal vote.

Of course, bigots like you who are trying to rig elections would never accept the above process because it would prevent you from rigging elections.

Again, you're just trying to keep black people from voting.

But the legal dispute should not distract anyone from recognizing the underlying purpose of laws like these and their close relative, voter ID laws. They are intended to keep eligible voters from the polls.

Republican lawmakers who work to impose higher bars to voting — either through proof-of-citizenship or voter ID laws — are well aware that many of those otherwise-eligible voters who struggle to come up with the required documents, which include a birth certificate, passport or driver’s license, are more likely to vote Democratic. Sometimes they even say it out loud, as Mike Turzai, the majority leader in the Pennsylvania statehouse, did in 2012 when he bragged that the state’s voter ID law was going to “allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.”

In recent months, it seemed that judges were beginning to see through the pretense of such laws, whose proponents insist they are necessary to protect “election integrity” despite the lack of any significant evidence that voter fraud of any kind exists.

In reality, as Judge Richard Posner of the United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit wrote last year about voter ID efforts, these laws are “now widely regarded as a means of voter suppression rather than of fraud prevention.”

And that says everything. You have been caught in your lies. Continuing to lie only indicates how damn little you care about valid elections.

indigenous says

Dan8267 says

People who propose these voter ID laws are lying scumbags who do not want elections to be ran fairly and accurately. That is the bottom line.

This is what I mean by projecting.

What you lyingly call projecting, the rest of the world calls evidence.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/EuOT1bRYdK8

I should rename this thread to Dumbest Americans believe Fox News lies.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/PEtdDqVUPg8

that evidence cuts both ways....only proving both sides are corrupt as they come....

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/03/19/democrats-in-pennsylvania-accepted-bribes-to-oppose-voter-identifation-laws-n1811436

Pennsylvania Democrats have been caught red handed allegedly accepting bribes in return for their opposition to voter identification law in the Keystone State. According to PJ Media's J. Christian Adams, lumps of cash and expensive Tiffany & Co. jewelry were accepted by Democrats and exchanged for votes against voter identification legislation in 2012. Despite the bribes and the no votes, the legislation passed but was struck down by a judge earlier this year.

Naturally, the Democratic Pennsylvania Attorney General Kathleen Kane hasn't charged Democratic legislators for their alleged misconduct. As usual, Kane is crying racism over the allegations.

Dan8267 says

What you lyingly call projecting, the rest of the world calls evidence.

SoftShell says

that evidence cuts both ways....only proving both sides are corrupt as they come....

No, in this subject, it doesn't. Watch the above video.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/columnists/falkenberg/article/Senior-tries-and-tries-to-get-ID-card-so-she-can-5226268.php?t=bd34f0742fd4bfc38c&t=bd34f0742f&t=bd34f0742f

This is the criminal voter that Voter ID laws are trying to stop from voting.

Braving the chill and drizzle, a nearly 80-year-old woman in a wheelchair rolls into the Texas Department of Public Safety building on U.S. 290 on a recent morning, her stiff upper lip softened only by the presence of an oxygen tube.

She doesn't know how many more times she can get her daughters to wheel her into the DPS office so she can get a state identification card that would allow her to comply with the newly implemented voter ID law.

Both times she tried, she was told there was something else, another document, another piece of proof she needed to convince the clerks that she's the woman pictured in her expired Texas driver's license.

"I just don't understand why they're trying to keep me from voting," says Troth, a former licensed vocational nurse who considers herself an independent. "To me, they're taking my rights away."

Determined to vote, Troth says she had a friend of the family drive her to the DPS office that day to get a Texas ID. She presented the woman at the front desk with various forms of identification - her old driver license, her Social Security and Medicare cards - but was told she needed her birth certificate.

The woman was short and rude, Troth says: "I was old and she was disrespectful."

Troth says the same "rude" woman was at the front desk and, this time, the woman told her the birth certificate wasn't good enough because the name on it differed from her married name.

"I told them I didn't get married out of the womb," Troth says.

The elderly widow was instructed to come back with her marriage license. And not only that. Because she lives with her other daughter, Alana Troth, that daughter would have to come in person to verify her mother's residency.

"I was mad as hell," Troth says. She got on the phone, calling DPS, Gov. Rick Perry, and finally, state Sen. John Whitmire, D-Houston. She gave him an earful about the wrongheadedness of a law that sets up roadblocks for older folks to vote. Once the veteran Democrat explained he'd voted against voter ID, he encouraged Troth to vote by mail. No photo ID is required for that form of voting. "Answer me this," Troth told me, "If you have to have all this proof to vote in person, why can anybody just vote by mail?" I didn't have a good answer.

So much for the myth of "anyone who can't get an ID shouldn't be allowed to vote because it's so damn easy to get a photo ID".

Voter ID and minorities? I don't get it. Doesn't everyone have some kind of official ID?

Dan8267 says

1. A tautology is a statement that is true by self-reference. For example, Too much of anything is bad.

"A tautology is a logical statement in which the conclusion is equivalent to the premise."

If you keep repeating yourself with no evidence that is a tautology.

Dan8267 says

1. A tautology is a statement that is true by self-reference. For example, Too much of anything is bad.

"A tautology is a logical statement in which the conclusion is equivalent to the premise."

If you keep repeating yourself with no evidence that is a tautology.