patrick.net

errc says

Exactly what credibility do you imagine you have, to play arbiter over my
credibility?

Amazing that the Progs and Libs think they have ANY credibility as the Obamacare fiasco unfolds before our eyes. The total incompetence along with the lying will be studied for a generation. I think most Libs are still in the denial phase of their grief process.

Virtually everything the Libs and Obama promised us to try and sell us this program turns out to be not true.

There is no way they would have passed Obamacare (let alone single payer), even in 2010 when they had their historic majorities if they were honest in saying that they are basically expanding the welfare state at the expense of the middle and uppler classes who will face higher premiums, higher deductables and less doctor choices to insure the 15% of the US population who didn't have health insurance.

Now that Obamacare is melting down, the Libs are stuck with nothing more than demanding Republicans to put forth a plan to fix their mess.

No thanks. The Libs made their bed.....

AverageBear says

For starters, I'd allow any and all insurance companies sell any product in any
state. Competition would help (but not solve) the rising cost of health care
insurance. IIRC, this idea has worked w/ auto insurance in many states that have
opened up the auto insurance industry to competition.

This would do nothing to control costs. Any company is already allowed to sell their products in any state. All it would do is reduce services...

AverageBear says

- For starters, I'd allow any and all insurance companies sell any product in any state. Competition would help (but not solve) the rising cost of health care insurance.

Aside from that being ineffective, http://chir.georgetown.edu/pdfs/Selling%20Health%20Insurance%20-%20fnl.pdf how would it solve the problem of people being denied insurance due to pre-existing conditions? Analysts have said your idea would make the problem WORSE, since insurance companies would cherry-pick the healthy people in other states, and refuse to insure people in their own states with medical conditions.

AverageBear says

- Then I'd work on tort reform. I think the Democratic party is more in the pocket of these law lobbyists more than the Republican party, but I can't confirm, and would be willing to be corrected on this. This would definitely help bring insurance costs down.

Not really. Factcheck.org says it would only save one half of one percent of healthcare costs. Next...

AverageBear says

- I'd try and reduce the overhead/redundancy of gov't layers of beaucracy that handle Medicare, Medicade and other aspects of the insurance industry.

- Then once the 'dead wood' has been removed, I'd offer an incentive plan to ferret out Medicare fraud and other types of fraud, double-billing, etc. I'd offer anyone a cut on any amount of fraud that they can successfully find and remove (1, 5, 10%)?? Once word gets out, this alone will make those that dispense heathcare think twice about cookin' the books and fuckin' the taxpayer. (I've seen it with my own eyes w/ my Dad's last years in a nursing home/hospice, so don't insult me and tell me that fraud doesn't exist.)

And how would that help people with pre-existing conditions buy insurance on the open market?

AverageBear says

- Confirm if those signing up for 'free shit' is actually a citizen of the US. if they give us a bogus SS#, or can't prove who they are, no medicine for you.

ACA already does that. You will notice on the application that it asks if you are a U.S. Citizen. Aside from that, are you suggesting that ERs refuse to treat people if they can't document their citizenship? In other words, let them die in the street? That's some cold-blooded shit, man.

AverageBear says

- Oh, I'd also close the borders really fuckin' tight to prevent illegals, like every other nation on this planet. Why is Mexico and other hypocritcal nations have a problem w/ us wanting to close our borders?

How would that provide insurance for people with pre-existing conditions?

errc says

Youc the same person that claims to eat healthy. You likely don't understand the first thing of what eating healthy looks like. And run five miles a day? That sounds like the activity of someone that is planning on needing knee replacements and other health care services,,,,you probably run with sneakers on. And then you'll flail your arms in frustration and wonderment as to how could this possibly have happened to me.

Oh Christ - another ridiculous post from bacon-boy. Yeah, sit on your ass all day and eat fatty, salty meat. That's the key to health. If you could only hear yourself...

It almost makes me WANT ACA repealed, just to see the look on your face when you develop diabetes and hypertension, then try to sign up for health insurance and get turned down.

errc says

Exactly what credibility do you imagine you have, to play arbiter over my credibility?

There's no better plan then the plan not to get sick. You feel your plan, to get sick, serves you better??

You don't bother to ask why you think there's some million dollar medical procedure. You just attempt to defend your statist idols. The dems are forcing it on us, so in your unquestioning eyes, it just has to be good.

I can't believe this conversation is ongoing with this even remotely being a debate. Your plan to " Not get sick" has nothing to do with the definition of a plan at all, being that you do not have any control over the condition of your health or the ability to assume that you will not get any number of the other millions of potentially serious diseases that afflict people of all ages, condition and health.

This has nothing to do with ACA. Its common sense. I do not advocate for anyone to go without health insurance. Doing so means you're literally one accident away from going bankrupt. Ever listen to the morning news? There's usually at least a half-dozen wrecks every single day. In many of those cases the people involved in them are going to the hospital and will have to undergo costly procedures. This could happen to any of us at any time. Its that simple.

Saying that "Not getting sick" is a plan is a total oxymoron.

socal2 says

Now that Obamacare is melting down, the Libs are stuck with nothing more than demanding Republicans to put forth a plan to fix their mess.

No thanks. The Libs made their bed.....

What will happen is that the kinks with the web site will be fixed, the loose ends will get tied up, and in a year or less people will have already moved onto other things and the GOP will find itself back to where it as: Being the party that is increasingly becoming a has-been and prone to losing elections.

What is it with the same people begging for fascism, forced participation in private "health" "insurance" by the same evil corporations that have failed us and screwed us for years, simultaneously wishing that healthy people get sick? To teach someone a lesson?

What the fuck kind of sick twisted shit is that?

And edvard, you simple simon motherfucker, how about you go on planning to get sick, and ill keep on planning on not getting sick, and time will prove me correct as absolute fact that the best plan of all, is to plan not to get sick. K?

Take your drugs like a good obedient little democrat and pray that one day ill get sick, and ill continue to live a healthy lifestyle and avoid the savages that comprise the sick industry.

Homegirl, why do you hate science?

errc says

And edvard, you simple simon motherfucker, how about you go on planning to get sick, and ill keep on planning on not getting sick, and time will prove me correct as absolute fact that the best plan of all, is to plan not to get sick. K?

Name calling makes your so-called" plan not anymore of a good idea than it was before. You can "say" that oh- well, I'll never get sick.... yessireee, that's my plan.

So what are you gunna' do if one day you wake up and lo and behold have a strange feeling and long story short, its cancer. Let me speak from experience from someone in my family who was as healthy as could be right up until he was in his 60's. As in he ran every day, was very careful of what he ate, and so on. He was the picture of health. One day he woke up not feeling well. A few weeks later he was diagnosed with Lymphoma. 4 years later the total costs of his treatments were over 1 Million dollars. He was insured and the treatments were paid for. Had he NOT been insured it would have bankrupted his family.

Your arguments against getting health insurance are mostly political and not having anything to do with common sense.

edvard2 says

Name calling makes your so-called" plan not anymore of a good idea than it was before. You can "say" that oh- well, I'll never get sick.... yessireee, that's my plan.

So what are you gunna' do if one day you wake up and lo and behold have a strange feeling and long story short, its cancer. Let me speak from experience from someone in my family who was as healthy as could be right up until he was in his 60's. As in he ran every day, was very careful of what he ate, and so on. He was the picture of health. One day he woke up not feeling well. A few weeks later he was diagnosed with Lymphoma. 4 years later the total costs of his treatments were over 1 Million dollars. He was insured and the treatments were paid for. Had he NOT been insured it would have bankrupted his family.

Your arguments against getting health insurance are mostly political and not having anything to do with common sense.

I think we're wasting our time. This guy thinks eating a pound of bacon for breakfast is healthy, and he is suffering from the delusion not only that he will never get sick, but that if anyone ever does get sick, it is their own fault. He's never going to listen to reason.

errc says

What is it with the same people begging for fascism, forced participation in private "health" "insurance" by the same evil corporations that have failed us and screwed us for years, simultaneously wishing that healthy people get sick? To teach someone a lesson?

I'm not wishing for it; I'm saying it HAPPENS. You are only healthy until you're not. Nobody is immortal, including yourself. Denial is not a healthcare plan.

sbh says

because fascism is historically championed by reactionary rightists.

Ironic huh? What's stupid in general about the yelling about communism/facism and other nonsense from folks is that they are basically claiming to be scared of something that has never happened in the US. yet when you look over to countries today- modern Germany for example- where the have social healthcare, unions, strong labor, why- they now have some of the highest wages in Europe, the most stable manufacturing industry, higher life expectancies, better standards of living, better and more cared-for infrastructure, and so on. Are they communists for having such a setup? Nope. And neither would we, if the GOP would get out of the way and let things happen versus bellow about an imaginary boogeyman.

Edvard, you've referenced people eating healthy multiple times now. How do you define "eating healthy"?

You mean following the food pyramid, with 12 servings of breads and grains and cereals per day?

Becaise that's what the usfedgov reccomends, and that's what we now know thru science, is in fact highly toxic

errc says

Edvard, you've referenced people eating healthy multiple times now. How do you define "eating healthy"?

You mean following the food pyramid, with 12 servings of breads and grains and cereals per day?

Becaise that's what the usfedgov reccomends, and that's what we now know thru science, is in fact highly toxic

What? You want to continue trying to argue about this? What the hell?

A CBS News poll released Wednesday shows that President Obama and his signature piece of legislation have hit record lows. Only 37% of those polled approve of the job the president is doing, with 57% disapproving. ObamaCare is even more unpopular. A full 61% disapprove of the health care law. Only 31% approve.

I'm waiting for the next 'crisis' to take the Obamacare fiasco out of the limelight....

AverageBear says

Only 37% of those polled approve of the job the president is doing, with 57% disapproving. ObamaCare is even more unpopular. A full 61% disapprove of the health care law. Only 31% approve.

At the same time the overall approval rating for the GOP is less than 20% at the moment. So its not like those on the right can jump for joy by any means because " their side" is fairing even worse.

AverageBear says

I'm waiting for the next 'crisis' to take the Obamacare fiasco out of the limelight....

It'll probably default back to the Republicans. Actually, their situation is more long-term anyway, as they continue to lack the ability to reach out to minorities and Hispanics whom they will desperately need in order to have a chance of winning in 2016.

Either way, the ACA will in time work out its kinks and the GOP will need to find another thing to desperately cling to as a last-ditch effort to prevent their party's slow slide into obscurity.

Call it Crazy says

Eddie, Eddie, Eddie.... Hopefully some day you'll wake up and stop blaming the GOP and accept your boy Obama for the failure that he is.

You're simply stating what you so desperately want to believe: That Obama is a failure while ironically totally forgetting the entire previous administration which unquestionably was a failure for the majority of its existence.

That and the lack of comprehension of what the long term situation is with the GOP, which is that as we speak is undergoing the biggest identity crisis its had in decades. The demographic mathematics are at increasingly bigger odds against the future of the GOP's success, at least if they keep on trying to force ideology that is contrary to modern America.

Simply put, the GOP doesn't deserve my blame. They can blame themselves. Sure- I am totally aware that the GOP is at this juncture breathing a sigh of relief that they finally have something to pin on Obama. But this is only temporary and the long term problems I mentioned above aren't going away.

PS: Posting dumb pictures doesn't make your incorrect statements anymore correct.

edvard2 says

You're simply stating what you so desperately want to believe: That Obama is a failure while ironically totally forgetting the entire previous administration which unquestionably was a failure for the majority of its existence.

Failure? What failure. Both parties are extremely successful at doing what their corporate masters demand.

bob2356 says

Failure? What failure. Both parties are extremely successful at doing what their corporate masters demand.

Not entirely un-true as both parties are guilty of getting into bed with big business. But in the case of the GOP, its a part of their brand. Why else would a party decide to proclaim that most things that are beneficial ( like pollution, emission controls, less reliance on coal, social services, financial regulation, healthcare, pensions, unions, and a slew of others) are somehow bad? Its because each and every single one of those are tied to the wishes of the industries whom use the GOP as their mouthpiece and in turn the GOP simply re-labels the cause simply as being "Liberals". Its simple really...

Call it Crazy says

Oh Eddie..

Unsurprising. This seems to be a common response mechanism from some on this site: When and if you can't win an argument because your side of the argument lacks any real material then its always handy to resort to 3rd-grader type tactics- like posting silly pictures. That doesn't really work, sorry. Let me know when you would like to have a real debate.

Call it Crazy says

already told you, we can't have a real debate until you take these off....

Unfortunately my browser is temporarily unable to show images so I assume what you meant is that we cant discuss intelligent political debates until you can come up with something that is based in reality.

Its the republicans fault that the democrats suck so much. Lol

Bizzaro world

errc says

Its the republicans fault that the democrats suck so much. Lol

Bizzaro world

Well, seeing as how today happens to be opposite day, I partially concur except that its nobody's fault that the GOP sucks except for their own.

sbh says

My, my. I was off by two and a half hours:

All I can say is: Well it was about time. Good. Now its time to get things done without the gop-fillibusters getting in the way and not doing their jobs.

edvard2 says

PS: Posting dumb pictures doesn't make your incorrect statements anymore correct.

Hear hear!

Atkins-bot says

You mean following the food pyramid, with 12 servings of breads and grains and cereals per day?

The old food pyramid hasn't been in use since 2005. Sad when you have to lie because you have no point.

Homeboy says

Atkins-bot says

You mean following the food pyramid, with 12 servings of breads and grains and cereals per day?

The old food pyramid hasn't been in use since 2005. Sad when you have to lie because you have no point.

Right. They decided to ditch the food pyramid, for choosemyplate

Why?

What changed?

Call it Crazy says

Gee, that must be the fault of the GOP too, right??

you are catching on.

Call it Crazy says

At least your consistent on blaming the GOP for everything...

We're not the ones constantly posting crap on this site that has no purpose other than to take little pokes at "liberals" in some desperate attempt to re-assure ourselves that our ideology isn't excessively outdated. For people like me this is raw entertainment and perhaps an insight as to where some of these bizarre ideas come from.

Call it Crazy says

Also, as a reminder, and as I've said it multiple times, the Repubs suck too!!! Just not as much as the current resident in the White House...

You're right that both sides suck. But the Republicans, in their Christian righteousness are much harder for me to stomach.

errc says

Right. They decided to ditch the food pyramid, for choosemyplate

Why?

First, why did you lie and say they were still using the food pyramid?

AverageBear says

A full 61% disapprove of the health care law. Only 31% approve.

But when asked WHY they disapprove, some say the law goes too far, while others say it doesn't go far enough. When you actually calculate the number of people who EITHER approve of Obamacare OR think it should go further than it does, you get a majority.

What's more, when you ask people if they are in favor of the individual components of ACA, i.e. "Do you think people with pre-existing conditions should be able to get insurance?" or "Do you think insurance should be available in a website format that allows you to shop and compare all policies?", more people than not say yes.

California Insurance Board tells Obama to "F" himself...

Covered California boots plans that miss Obamacare standards

....."The board of California's health insurance exchange, Covered California, on Thursday decided not to allow insurance plans that do not meet Obamacare standards to continue operating in that state"

...."The move effectively rejects the fix President Barack Obama proposed to salve the deeply troubled rollout of the Affordable Care Act."

Think Dems will lose any Congressional seats in California in Nov '14?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101218932

Homeboy says

First, why did you lie and say they were still using the food pyramid?

You know that the only food pyramid that counts here is this one:

Call it Crazy says

For one thing, I just REPOST article that are out in the main news sites, majority from popular, main stream sites, not off the wall unknown sites, so I don't think they are "crap". I don't make them up..... If you have issues with the articles I post, I always provide a link. Feel free to contact the original author of the article to voice your disapproval!!

Unfortunately, you liberals can't handle the truth about the current administration, so you respond with YOUR childish "blame the GOP" responses... Too bad if the "Truth Hurts"...

Maybe YOU need to grow up and accept reality that your liberal "blue" team ain't as great as you think....

Its more like posting articles and then adding cute statements to it to construe them to an ever-reliable "Take that, liberals!" attitude. Utterly predictable. Don't worry about handling the truth. We've known it for quiet some time now, which is that the GOP is a dinosaur and losing its ability to garner votes as the clock ticks on by. We don't have to do anything except sit back with some popcorn and watch the GOP in its current form fade into oblivion. Within 10 years the GOP of today won't be recognizable to those in the future. They will have to change. Plain and simple. The rest of us will just wait.

AverageBear says

Think Dems will lose any Congressional seats in California in Nov '14?

Probably not. The one thing that can almost always be counted on in Cali is that it might as well be Texas' twin sister given its outright reliable politics. Texas can almost always be assured to be solidly Republican no matter what the same that Cali can equally be counted on to be solidly Democratic.

AverageBear says

...."The move effectively rejects the fix President Barack Obama proposed to salve the deeply troubled rollout of the Affordable Care Act."

It's not a fix. It's just caving in to pressure from the right, and being stabbed in the back by Bill Clinton. California is right, and Obama should have stuck to his guns. This is the WRONG time to knuckle under.

zzyzzx says

You know that the only food pyramid that counts here is this one:

Wow. Did you make that, or did that come from AF? Somebody spent a lot of time on that.

APOCALYPSEFUCK is Comptroller says

It was a reprint of a Boy Scout training poster published in Boys Life magazine this summer.

True genius.