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Rich Moochers Hurt America


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2013 Mar 31, 3:26pm   17,304 views  18 comments

by Buster   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

I think this sums up our national state of affairs pretty simply. http://www.salon.com/2013/03/22/how_rich_moochers_ruin_america/

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1   Entitlemented   2013 Apr 2, 3:27am  

Rich, Poor, and Governments Moochers has been discussed, have included experpt from Montesquieu and Machiavelli book:
__________________________________

Montesquieu: Up until now you have been concerned with the structure of your government and the stringent laws necessary to maintain it. That is a considerable undertaking, but you have only just begun. For a sovereign who desires absolute power in a modern European state accustomed to representative institutions, you still have to face the most difficult problem of all.

Machiavelli: And what's that?

Montesquieu: The problem of state finances.

Machiavelli: I've not ignored such things. I remember telling you that every thing comes down to knowing how to manipulate numbers.

Montesquieu: That's all well and good. But in this case, the very nature of things will resist you.

Machiavelli: I confess that you take me somewhat aback. I was born in a century extremely backward when it comes to matters of economics and I understand little about such things.

Montesquieu: I'm not too anxious on your behalf. However, let me ask you one thing. I remember having written in The Spirit of the Laws that the absolute monarch was compelled, by the principle that informed his government, to impose only small taxes on his subjects. [1] Will you at least give your subjects the same satisfaction?

Machiavelli: I make no such promise. In truth, I know nothing more question- able than the proposition you have set forth there. How do you expect the trappings of monarchic power and the brilliance and display of a grand court to exist without imposing heavy sacrifices on a nation? Your thesis may be true in Turkey or in Persia, for all I know, for petty , lazy people who would not even have the wherewithal to pay a tax. But in European societies, labor produces a superabundance of wealth that presents itself in various forms-all amenable to taxation. In these countries, the government supports itself through luxury .All public service projects are under central control. All high officials and dignitaries are given great salaries at public expense. Can you really expect someone who is sovereign master of all this to limit himself to modest taxes?

Montesquieu: All right. I accept your premises and will not defend my proposition whose real meaning has seemed to escape you. So, your government will be costly. Evidently it will be more expensive than a representative government.

Machiavelli: That's possible.

Montesquieu: Yes. But here is where you begin to have problems. I know how representative governments provide for their financial needs, but I have no idea of how absolute power, in modern societies, can support itself. If the past is any indication, absolute power could be maintained upon the following conditions: first, the absolute monarch would have to be a military leader. You understand this.

Machiavelli: Yes.

Montesquieu: Moreover, he would have to be a conqueror, for war would be the principal source of those revenues that would keep him in splendor and support his armies. If these expenses were met by taxation, they would crush his subjects, not because he spends less but because he .finds his means of support elsewhere. But today, war is no longer profitable. It ruins the conqueror as well as the conquered. Here then is one major source of revenue that escapes you. Taxes remain. But to Jay taxes as he wants, the absolute monarch would have to ignore the will of his subjects. In despotic states, a legal fiction is appealed to and this allows such rulers to tax indiscriminately. The sovereign is presumed to possess all the goods of his subject by right. When he expropriates something, he is only taking back what belongs to him. Thus, there is no basis for a claim against him.

2   🎂 Tenpoundbass   2013 Apr 2, 4:51am  

Rich Moochers, hahahah that's rich.

Hey Liberals I got a novel idea, why don't you draft some shitty fucked up legislation that only a retard that fell 50 stories and hit his head on the concrete sidewalk would dare craft. So fucked up, that the only way a Republican would ever consider passing it, is if they tack on a rider that makes their rich buddies even richer. But that's OK for the Liberals in Washington, because a "Win is a Win" right? Right? Right? Besides, it's not like those clowns on the hill even bothered to read it for one damn second.

Rich Moochers, and who do you think keeps making it even possible for them to keep scoring all of their freebies and handouts? That's right Mrs. "Pass it first and read the fucking thing NEVER" Pelosi!

3   Dan8267   2013 Apr 2, 6:08am  

Articles like this remind me how much I miss Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq.

He has posted in almost a year. I wonder how the sequester is affecting him. He might be down to one whipping boy per mansion.

4   FortWayne   2013 Apr 2, 8:33am  

The greatest threat to us comes from us spending more than we have, especially on military where costs outweight the benefits by a very very wide margin.

But we have many structural problems that must be addressed.

5   Ceffer   2013 Apr 2, 4:56pm  

Dan8267 says

Articles like this remind me how much I miss Huntington Moneyworth III, Esq.

He has posted in almost a year. I wonder how the sequester is affecting him. He might be down to one whipping boy per mansion.

Maybe he succumbed while wearing a tutu during auto erotic self asphyxiation. This is apparently regarded as an honorable death amongst the very wealthy and aristocratic.

6   mell   2013 Apr 3, 8:56am  

KarlRoveIsScum says



mell says

Spending more than we have is the only economic problem.

Another idiot that knows Zero about USA Economics.

Not so fast, skippy. Think about it for a second: The majority of the the Keynesian spending is spent on things that don't even benefit the poor or middle class. Wars (aka military-industrial complex), propping up the housing market, supporting medical cartels and HMOs, big pharma etc.

7   mell   2013 Apr 3, 9:45am  

KarlRoveIsScum says

mell says

Not so fast, skippy.

and you still no nothing about economics

Economics is a misnomer, it's just a simple branch of math - really not much to know.

8   mell   2013 Apr 3, 12:49pm  

And the democrats never had the chance to roll back what the republicans did? You have to be delusional to believe this. Stop Keynesian spending, the rest will fall into place. Take a look at countries with balanced budget amendments, they are doing well, little inflation, price stability etc. (Italy and Spain are outliers but they just added it after the crisis in 2011 and it is still fought hard against there, so no time to implement so far).

9   thomaswong.1986   2013 Apr 3, 12:53pm  

Bellingham Bill says

Capitalism is dead end and destructive without strong rules to prevent excessive wealth concentration.

Elvis had a couple Cadillacs and a very nice mansion. Pretty rich by your standards..

Your point is what.. should have confiscate MORE of his assets, earnings or what ?

10   mell   2013 Apr 3, 1:05pm  

Bellingham Bill says

Rich people (the top 5%) taking 33%+ of the national income is.

High government spending is just a palliative on that central imbalance.

I understand what you are saying, but maintain that disparity is created by programs financed with cheap money and I have provided examples, war was the one you zeroed on and the problem with that is that the resulting government contracts made a few companies and their executives even richer than they already were at the expense of the taxpayer - it is really not that hard to see that and acknowledged by most by now (e.g. cheney/halliburton connection). Now you can argue that halliburton, blackwater etc. do employ people as well who benefit to a certain extent from those contracts, but there are foreign contractors etc. and the companies operate more and more globally, so net there is a money drain. Just by removing the temptation to favor special interests by not making that money available in the first place is a good step towards curbing in those marketplace distortions that create disparity.

11   thomaswong.1986   2013 Apr 3, 1:15pm  

Bellingham Bill says

Countries running low public debt also have trade surpluses and a high tax-to-GDP ratio.

I'm all for Denmark-scale taxation here, 50% on GDP.

Danish govt gets substantial royalties from offshore oil sales. We dont like of the idea of
drilling for any oil especially on Govt land/offshore which would bring royalties to pay off debt.

that is why they have a surplus relative to their size.

12   thomaswong.1986   2013 Apr 3, 1:16pm  

mell says

The people of Denmark are also very happy with the services they get in return for their higher taxation so there is no capital flight.

OIL.. petro dollars.

13   mell   2013 Apr 3, 1:22pm  

thomaswong.1986 says

Bellingham Bill says

Countries running low public debt also have trade surpluses and a high tax-to-GDP ratio.

I'm all for Denmark-scale taxation here, 50% on GDP.

Danish govt gets substantial royalties from offshore oil sales. We dont like of the idea of

drilling for any oil especially on Govt land/offshore which would bring royalties to pay off debt.

that is why they have a surplus relative to their size.

I don't remember Denmark being an oil-rich state, (Norway yes). That doesn't invalidate the point though about drilling in the US.

14   thomaswong.1986   2013 Apr 3, 3:42pm  

they certainly have very very rich industries.. for a small nation.

http://www.prodenmark.com/danish-companies/largest-danish-companies/

A. P. Møller was also involved in business ventures outside the shipping industry. He secured a contract on drilling oil in the Danish part of the North Sea in 1962.[2] In 1964, Møller joined merchant Hermann Salling in a 50-50 ownership of the retail chain Dansk Supermarked.[3] This chain went on to become the biggest retail company in Denmark. On A.P. Møller's death in 1965, his son Arnold Mærsk Mc-Kinney Møller succeeded him as chairman and CEO of the A.P. Moller-Maersk Group.[2]

15   kt1652   2013 Apr 3, 4:01pm  

Bellingham Bill says

I'm all for Denmark-scale taxation here, 50% on GDP.

Are you completely out of your mind?
Have you been under a rock for the last few years?
You want us to be like some little country in Europe?
Did you miss the on-going sega of European contagion taking the world economy to ttthe brink of financial disaster?
I like Denmark, GB, Italy, even Greece..
But what the hell does Denmark have in common with the US?

16   leo707   2013 Apr 4, 3:09am  

Bellingham Bill says

Money spent on DOD doesn't just vanish into thin air

Didn't billions of dollars in cash vanish into thin air in Iraq?

Bellingham Bill says

Money spent on DOD...

This spending CANNOT create wealth disparity in the slightest.

In general yes, but I would not say "cannot." Don't understatement how much DOD money ends up in the pockets of the 1% that run defense contractors. War profiteering through defense contracts is another thing that Americans have seemed to have gotten lazy about keeping an eye on.

17   zzyzzx   2013 Apr 5, 1:31am  

Moochers Hurt America. It doesn't matter if it's some rich person who pays little income taxes, or a deadbeat on Social Security "disability", in their Section 8 housing, with their Obamaphone, eating food paid for with food stamps.

Why is this in the Real Estate section???

18   Bellingham Bill   2013 Apr 6, 3:28pm  

Trade deficits export inflation, too

~$500B/yr is flowing out of this country's paycheck economy, never to return as wages

But if we ever have to raise our exports to match what we import, that will mean shipping a lot more hard wealth -- food, cars, etc -- to our trading partners in return for the cash we've sent them already.

This will result in less goods to buy on the domestic market with more money to chase their prices up.

Inflationary!

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