patrick.net

OK, it's not all about dependence, but that is a large part of it. The US Chamber of Commerce, which is basically representatives of the F500, was intensely opposed to the public option and the logical conclusion is that it is a threat to their control over employees. Another factor preventing the public option is the large amount of money insurance companies can spend lobbying.

FortWayne says

But in case of Obamas healthcare plan people are free to squander physician resources on everyday colds and other non emergency hickups at a very high cost.

I don't see that at all. What makes you say that? Obama's plan keeps all the same expenses: no limit on premiums, co-pays, deductibles, etc. Obama's plan does not squander money at all as far as I can tell.

Anyway, Obama's plan does not include the public option because he sold out to the insurance companies and Chamber of Commerce just to get something past Congress so he could point to that as an accomplishment.

And I'm not talking about a public option that covers everything. Just life-and-death stuff. Just enough to make it possible for people without large amounts of money to go out on their own and start a small business that competes with the F500.

clambo says

Who should pay for the health care of the millions of people who refuse to buy insurance?

So you're for the mandate that everyone buy insurance? Thath makes you an Obama supporter.

clambo says

Why should health insurance companies be told to 1. cover pre-existing conditions 2. pay for nonsense fake snake oil treatments, e.g. accupuncture, chiropractic, coffee enemas?

1. Because denying coverage for pre-existing conditions is rigging the game in favor of insurance companies and bankrupting lots of people through no fault of their own.

2. Those are straight off AM radio and just not true. For example, even though there is an accupuncturist lobby, they have not succeeded in getting it covered:

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/04/10/acupuncturists-lobby-hhs-to-be-included-in-essential-health-benefits/

Another factor preventing the public option is the large amount of money insurance companies can spend lobbying.

That one I agree and did not like either. Young people are now forced to enter into commerce involuntarily because of this, it was such a no brainer that all health insurance stock spiked.

I don't see that at all. What makes you say that? Obama's plan keeps all the same expenses: no limit on premiums, co-pays, deductibles, etc. Obama's plan does not squander money at all as far as I can tell.

My fear here is that there is no incentive to keep costs down, insurance is required to spend certain amount on claims and send refunds if target isn't met... which to me seems like a huge incentive to simply spend more on claims. While trying to cover everyone for everything is also as I posted earlier would negate the risk pool aspect. And provider networks probably are salivating over that one since they've been strongly pushing for increases.

I do like some aspects of the reform, but as a whole package it makes me feel very uneasy.

Just enough to make it possible for people without large amounts of money to go out on their own and start a small business that competes with the F500.

How unpatriotic of you. The Forbes 500 are entitled to do business w/o competition. That's what America is all about.

Patrick you don't understand what insurance is.
Can you get car insurance to cover collisions AFTER you have crunched your fender? Try it and get back to us.
I don't get my information from AM radio. If the insurance doesn't cover snake oil and fake "treatments" then that is what I WANT.
The only part of the Obamacare nonsense that made sense to me was the concept that people must pay for insurance if they seek medical treatment.
I agree that people who have no insurance and who can afford it, should have to buy it.
How exactly to make this happen is the problem, because it's probably illegal for the federal govt. to force someone to buy something.
My solution would be repeal the law that requires hospitals to treat people who have no insurance.
For instance, the illegals from Mexico crash their bicycle and need to go to the ER for stitches. This happened to Daniel a few months after he came here illegally from Mexico.
He paid nothing for this medical treatment.
But, if Dominican had said to him "come up with $1500 or you can sew it up with dental floss" he WOULD have come up with that $1500?
How do I KNOW he could come up with the money?
Because he was HERE. How do you bleeding hearts think the Mexicans get up here? Do you think they have a star trek beaming machine operated by a tooth fairy? CASH got every single illegal alien across this border.
All of the illegals (except Maricela) has a ton of cash stashed and they can afford medical treatment and they SURELY can afford medical insurance.
I support the Swiss approach to medical insurance coverage. Of course, they've got an advantage of being Swiss and not idiots who have bleeding hearts for people who sneak into Switzerland to steal.

Do you support tort reform to rein in ambulance chaser millionaire shyster lawyers? Y/N
Do you support every person paying for his medical insurance? Y/N
Do you support every person having responsibility for his own luck? Y/N?
Do you support every person having to seek help from his family before the taxpayers? Y/N
Do you support people being able to buy insurance according to their needs and not conditions and treatments invented by government? Y/N
Do you support people being able to buy health insurance sold over state lines, like car insurance? Y/N
Do you support illegal aliens and indigent Santa Cruz trolls getting unlimited free medical treatment? Y/N
Do you support taking my money from my pocket to pay for health care for illegal aliens and indigent Santa Cruz trolls?
Are you nuts?

clambo says

Do you support tort reform to rein in ambulance chaser millionaire shyster lawyers? Y/N

No, but I only have the documentary "Hot Coffee" on which to base my opinion. The Chamber of Commerce seems to have it out for anyone's ability to prosecute cases of tort. If someone is torted, I want them to have a legal process to help them negotiate the entity responsible for the tort.

The idea of countless cases of tort resulting in millions of dollars of cost appears to be a marketing job by the Chamber of Commerce.

Clambo gives me a new idea: pretend to be canadian here illegally and get free treatment at ER if im caught uninsured.

"I crashed my bicycle, eh!" "The street traffic is much safer in Toronto, eh!".

Does this work for whiteys? hmmmm

PockyClipsNow says

"I crashed my bicycle, eh!" "The street traffic is much safer in Toronto, eh!".

Classic!

absolutely right Goran_K, savers are being screwed... stock market is volatile... houses are a depreciating asset just like cars, but it is a nice day!

gromitmpl says

Day in day out the biggest, by a wide margin, problems I face come from the government (city, county, state and federal) -- no I am not a drug dealer....

Government is controlled by Big Money a.k.a. Big Business.

Big Business uses Big Government to do their bidding against the interests over everyone else.

fil says

Of course if you are self employed it is brutal...been there too.

I'm self-employed by Patrick.net.

So far, my direct experience is that the principle factor preventing small business formation in the US is Republican opposition to the public option.

Republicans talk about how much they love business, but what they really mean is that they love BIG business, and they don't want you to be able to compete with it.

If you are dependent on your big employer's insurance, that makes the big employer happy, and they donate to Republican candidates who promise to keep you dependent that way.

Patrick, I work for a big company, but I agree with you. Especially for someone who has a pre-existing condition; pre-ACA there would be little chance of getting coverage. And even if one could get coverage, there's the good chance that the insurance company would cancel your coverage if you made a significant claim.
ACA should address these cases, and therefore remove one barrier to self employment.

gromitmpl says

Patrick - I don't get it. I too am self employed so I sympathize with the plight of the self employed but when you say the "principal barrier is..... etc" I am thinking we are living on different planets. I guess if the only reason you start a small business is to buy insurance than the cost of insurance would be an obstacle but even if you admit that you have to jump from there to various economic theories before you start thinking about "the public option" problem. At the very least I don't think you can say your opinion is intuitive. I'd have to hear your argument before I agreed.

Day in day out the biggest, by a wide margin, problems I face come from the government (city, county, state and federal) -- no I am not a drug dealer....

I get zero problems from the government at all in running Patrick.net. I make so little I paid zero federal taxes this last time, and I'm not incorporated so I don't pay those fees either.

There is zero regulation that applies to me as far as I can tell. The government is WONDERFUL to me, meaning that they leave me entirely alone. So I don't know what you're talking about.

Now insurance is quite another story. They raised my rate 73% in one year with no justification and there was nothing I could do about it, because there is no free market for health insurance. It's just pay or go without, and perhaps bankrupt yourself or die.

Taxes are at least proportional to income. Health insurance doesn't care who the hell you are. You just pay whatever they say, no democracy, no competition, no nothing.

I repeat: the principal impediment to small business formation in America is the private health insurance cartel, NOT government.

[...]

Goran_K says

How do you win

You don't. You either take risks, ranging from calculated to outright foolish, or you are insanely lucky. If you took ANY one-percenter and stripped them of all their wealth and their contacts, they COULD NOT rebuild themselves. Take any one-percenter, take all their assets and force them to change their name and 90-95% of them wouldnt be able to earn it back.

So, what can you do? Take a huge risk. And be prepared to fail , to go broke. Just about every mogul shrugged off failure a few times, but for those middle class with families, its a horrible, rough fall to the bottom. You need to be mentally unstable to take the risks some people take. Unfortunately a bird in hand is worth two in the bush, and I want to try like hell to protect the kids from poverty. House debt slavery in my mind is increasing risk. Why people want to service a mountain of debt, taxes and carrying costs to the tune of 75%+ plus of dual income is moronic. And only the landed gentry benefit.

is that it is a threat to their control over employees

Yep. The only way to get a raise is to quit and come back. And they know this. And when you quit, you lose seniority (and vacation), and you disrupt health care coverage, so if you have a sickness, you MUST stay put and your wage slave job. Its all about pinning the middle class firmly into place.

Republicans talk about how much they love business, but what they really mean is that they love BIG business, and they don't want you to be able to compete with it.

All big business got a LOT BIGGER (banks, energy, the monopoly tech stocks, etc) both in 2008-2010, and 2010-present.

It doesnt matter anymore.

I know I've posted this, but it remains true.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/fOaCemmsnNk

Mick Russom says

Yep. The only way to get a raise is to quit and come back. And they know this. And when you quit, you lose seniority (and vacation), and you disrupt health care coverage, so if you have a sickness, you MUST stay put and your wage slave job. Its all about pinning the middle class firmly into place.

I recently threatened to quit in order to get a title change & promotion, plus some cash. Aside from knowing that management was freaking out over a couple of other people quitting recently, I also knew that they knew I was serious because I have no kids or mortgage. My coworkers with kids & a mortgage can't believe I told my (former) boss, to her face, that they had 5 months to give me what I wanted or I was gone...they all tell me that they can't take that risk, despite some of them wishing that they could. I still get along fine with my former boss, and we have joked around about it since then. I told her that her group really should be finding people with kids & a mortgage and enough experience to know that they want to do the job...she chuckled and agreed. Employees with fiscal burdens don't rock the boat.

Mick Russom says

Yep. The only way to get a raise is to quit and come back. And they know this. And when you quit, you lose seniority (and vacation), and you disrupt health care coverage, so if you have a sickness, you MUST stay put and your wage slave job. Its all about pinning the middle class firmly into place.

I recently threatened to quit in order to get a title change & promotion, plus some cash. Aside from knowing that management was freaking out over a couple of other people quitting recently, I also knew that they knew I was serious because I have no kids or mortgage. My coworkers with kids & a mortgage can't believe I told my (former) boss, to her face, that they had 5 months to give me what I wanted or I was gone...they all tell me that they can't take that risk, despite some of them wishing that they could. I still get along fine with my former boss, and we have joked around about it since then. I told her that her group really should be finding people with kids & a mortgage and enough experience to know that they want to do the job...she chuckled and agreed. Employees with fiscal burdens don't rock the boat.

bmwman91 says

Employees with fiscal burdens don't rock the boat.

Yes. Those who can takes risks because nobody depends on them wins. Those who have dependents either do what Steve Jobs did, take huge risks and pretend his kids don't exist for some time, or you quietly work your bum off in wage slavery to try and save your kids from breadlines.

And Steve Jobs is the billionaire "hero," who runs a sweat shop, pays low, encourages a nasty aggressive corporate culture and shunned his kid for some time, he is the big hero. And its his executive minions who run out and take their loot-money and jack up the house prices in Cupertino so only the upper echelons can enjoy a middle class+ life, while the rest of us rot in the shadow of these nasty, cash hoarding greedy never-give-back mega-corporations. And the shame is Jobs was a normal middle class kid, so was Hewlett and Packard. All these people who built this with innovation have indirectly created a Ponzi monster.

curious2 says

the AMA cartel

The AMA cartel makes things a lot worse. Cash price for superior care and triple coverage (3 docs for the price of one) is available in India. The Cash price for care would SHOCK you. They have enough doctors there, they are good quality, and the prices are market, unlike the fake market fake economy we have here.

At this point with the cost of travel skyrocketing, our last accessible health care, overseas in India and Costa Rica, is closing. Maybe I cna steal away to Canada - problem there is not getting hypothermia.

OK.. I didn't read all the posts, but here's the problem for us renters. If you want anything more than a 2 BDRM, you usually need to rent a SFH, as the stock of 3 BDRM apartments is a small portion of the rental market as a whole (at least in my area).

Granted my grandparents raised six kids in a 1200 ft2 house, so perhaps all of us are just spoiled. Do I NEED a third bedroom - no. Would it be nice to have? HELL YES!

When you look at the cost of renting a 3 BDRM space, the asking prices are such that it makes buying a more affordable option with a breakeven point somewhere between three and seven years depending on the underling assumptions.

In short, I might be compelled to take the leap sooner rather than later. No I don't like spending 30% of my income on housing when right now I only spend 15%, but as a wise man once told me "The key to life is to know the rules. You may not like them, and they may not be fair, but if you know the rules, you will find ways to use them to your advantage."

bmwman91 says

Employees with fiscal burdens don't rock the boat.

When legendary Chicago Cubs shortstop and first baseman Ernie Banks went into city politics after baseball, someone asked him about the ideal employee, and he said, "Someone who's married and in debt."

I'll say it again here bless Patrick.net. Freedom of speech is bullshit in a one way conversation like the media has with its hired monkey troup. True Pat has about 20k readers a day. Deal is I can say what I want here. I don't have to sit here like a little kid and get lectured and information in a continual one way diatribe from the debt merchant owned media and their highly trained monkeys. Listening and never allowed to speak.

Seriously you can't eat flowers. All the BEST to Patrick and the good people on here.

For all the crooks heres a bucket of shit enjoy it.

For those of you that have been reformed I will go through my index cards later. Then again WE know.

Michinaga says

When legendary Chicago Cubs shortstop and first baseman Ernie Banks went into city politics after baseball, someone asked him about the ideal employee, and he said, "Someone who's married and in debt."

God Bless America.

Michinaga says

bmwman91 says

Employees with fiscal burdens don't rock the boat.

When legendary Chicago Cubs shortstop and first baseman Ernie Banks went into city politics after baseball, someone asked him about the ideal employee, and he said, "Someone who's married and in debt."

I don't rock the boat because I prefer staying under the radar, where I can do my job with mediocrity and fleece my employer for annual salary. I have so much more of a life outside of the 50 hours I waste at an office each week.

It's been a lucrative scam for 10 years running now. You only feel cheated if you're not cheating them back.

Philistine says

You only feel cheated if you're not cheating them back.

Good one.

Philistine says

I don't rock the boat because I prefer staying under the radar, where I can do my job with mediocrity and fleece my employer for annual salary. I have so much more of a life outside of the 50 hours I waste at an office each week.
It's been a lucrative scam for 10 years running now. You only feel cheated if you're not cheating them back.

Hilarious!

It works until the "consultants" come in.

One of the Bobs: "So what would you say...you DO here??"

wthrfrk80 says

Michinaga says

When legendary Chicago Cubs shortstop and first baseman Ernie Banks went into city politics after baseball, someone asked him about the ideal employee, and he said, "Someone who's married and in debt."

God Bless America.

Isn't that Patricks slogan?

Debt is slavery.

curious2 says

the principal impediment to small business formation in America is the private health insurance cartel, NOT government.

The two are connected though. Government is one mechanism through which cartels increase the cost of insurance, including the prescription mandate, mandatory coverage for disproven toxic pills and their purveyors, the AMA cartel, etc., with the result that medical care and insurance cost 10x more here than in Mexico. There are other mechanisms, e.g. insurers' RICO-like protection rackets with hospitals (wherein hospitals agree to overcharge triple prices for everyone outside of the insurer's network, in exchange for network referrals). Government ends up being a pawn in AHIP/AMA/PhRMA/AHA's game.

OK, yes, business uses government to keep prices high and consumers trapped. Similar for real estate with the NAR and banks. But it's not any inherent problem with government. The problem is corruption of government by businesses.

I worked with a doctor in a lab during my college work-study days who told me she constantly got solicitations from the AMA for money or votes to support laws that artificially restrict the supply of doctors, to keep doctors' salaries high. She even showed me one of the letters. So I'm pretty certain that that is the principal purpose of the AMA.

I worked with a doctor in a lab during my college work-study days who told me she constantly got solicitations from the AMA for money or votes to support laws that artificially restrict the supply of doctors, to keep doctors' salaries high. She even showed me one of the letters. So I'm pretty certain that that is the principal purpose of the AMA.

I wonder how many members of the AMA bitch about labor unions and the UAW...

And to be fair, I wonder how many UAW members bitch about OPEC.

"My cartel is good...the other guy's cartel is evil!"

Philistine says

I have so much more of a life outside of the 50 hours I waste at an office each week.

I'm with you on that one. The main driver for my threat to quit was that I was BORED! If I am going to spend 40-50 hours a week at work, I would at least like some sort of stimulating, challenging work. My threat got me moved from the hardware test team to the hardware design team, which is a lot more interesting.

In the end though, I appreciate my employer because it lets me go home & live my life. I had some interviews lined up at Apple & a couple other places as back-ups at the time, and I was relieved that my current employer took my threat seriously & gave me what I wanted. My colleagues that went to Apple & Google...have a lot less time free to LIVE their lives. They can go ahead & be working at 7PM on a Friday (or any day for that matter)...I am up in the SC mountains going for a 10 mile trail run or climbing.

I worked with a doctor in a lab during my college work-study days who told me she constantly got solicitations from the AMA for money or votes to support laws that artificially restrict the supply of doctors, to keep doctors' salaries high. She even showed me one of the letters. So I'm pretty certain that that is the principal purpose of the AMA.

Certainly explains why there is a shortage of doctors in this country and why AMA makes so much money.

Seems like with every bill government has been trying to reduce the supply and increase the demand while pretending that it's for the good or that they actually care about someone.

bmwman91 says

I am up in the SC mountains going for a 10 mile trail run or climbing.

You can run 10 miles?

I get winded after 1 or 2 on flat ground.

Goran_K says

You can run 10 miles?

I get winded after 1 or 2 on flat ground.

Haha, well it all depends on priorities & whatnot. I am a little OCD about personal fitness & it is definitely a part of daily life. Not owning a TV or having a Netflix account buys me the time to do that. I like engineering and it is fun, but in the end, it is MORE fun to go exercise until you have the dry-heaves lol. Some of my friends are in much better shape than me (You run HOW far HOW fast? Shit, I can only run 10 miles at a 7:30 pace!). I guess that being 28 & having no kids also helps me in that respect, too.

If you don't already, you should look into biking / running / climbing. It is a GREAT stress reliever. Seriously. Whenever I get irritated about the housing situation around here, or work is stressing me out, I go for a trail run & throw in some calisthenics. After 30-60 minutes, I couldn't care less about any of it & am just happy to be alive!

Works for me too. I run three miles, three times a week. Not real fast, but it definitely helps lower stress anyway.

bmwman91 says

.I am up in the SC mountains going for a 10 mile trail run or climbing.

Ever do races with PCTR (Pacific Coast Trail Runners)? Awesome, mellow crowd.

1sfrenter says

Ever do races with PCTR (Pacific Coast Trail Runners)? Awesome, mellow crowd.

No, never heard of them. I will check it out though, sounds like a lot of fun. There's nothing like running on single track through dense forest, coastal scrub and open grassland...all on the same trail! RACING through it...that's gotta be a whole new game!

If anyone here is into trail running & wants to do some of it up off of Page Mill (Monte Bello / Los Trancos) let me know. I can usually duck out of work a little early (not that I really need to now...daylight savings FTW).

http://www.pctrailruns.com/

I get zero problems from the government at all in running Patrick.net. I make so little I paid zero federal taxes this last time, and I'm not incorporated so I don't pay those fees either.

Patrick - I think you are making an important point. I tell all of my friends that it is much easier to make money around the internet and new technology than it is in some of the older traditional industries. Go try to set up a hot dog stand and see how far you get. You did not need the governments permission to start Patrick.net but tecnically you would most likely need a permit if you wanted to sale lemonade on a street corner.

I do not doubt that the government has interfered very little with you but just wait until Big Govt figures out to get is paws on the internet and all of its related businesses and then i think you will be singing a different toon.

I have a traditional bricks and mortar business as well as an internet business and there is no comparison between the two when it comes to govt regulation. Virtually none with the internet business but with the bricks and mortar biz its a complete nightmare- one which hopefully will soon end.

I'd recommend this book

http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Day-Target-Innocent/dp/1594032556

to anyone who thinks that the government is not a barrier to business - and life in general for that matter.