patrick.net

SubOink says

One single transaction

Real Estate is a transaction between two individuals, some may over pay, other may under pay. The seller can sell, if they don't have a mortgage for wahtever price they choose. I, as a cash buyer can pay as much, or as little as I choose.

Market conditions may have an influence, but they don't make the transaction.

David Losh says

Real Estate is a transaction between two individuals, some may over pay, other may under pay. The seller can sell, if they don't have a mortgage for wahtever price they choose. I, as a cash buyer can pay as much, or as little as I choose.

Market conditions may have an influence, but they don't make the transaction.

I don't know what your point is.

Mine was - If I keep selling rusty nails for $450k so they are worth 450k. Unlike you said.

SubOink says

Wrong. If somebody was to pay you $450k for a rusty nail then that nail is worth $450k - period!

You don't really believe that. The transaction you describe would be more of an (extreme) outlier; not evidence of the real underlying value of the rusty nail.

SubOink says

If I keep selling

Actually, if you were somehow able to KEEP selling rusty nails for half a million dollars, this discussion would shift from one of supply and demand to one of widespread aberrant behavior, and questions as to the pH of your local water supply!

David Losh says

Real Estate is a transaction between two individuals, some may over pay, other may under pay. The seller can sell, if they don't have a mortgage for wahtever price they choose. I, as a cash buyer can pay as much, or as little as I choose.

Market conditions may have an influence, but they don't make the transaction.

That's fair when describing buyers and sellers not compelled to buy/sell. The thing is, there are plenty of transactions where the buyer or seller is compelled in some sense. Bankruptcy, divorce, relocation, new house purchase, job loss, etc. Of course it's usually not black and white, but I suspect quite often a seller is financially able to hold a house but sells it for convenience, financial planning, opportunity cost or whatever reasons. In that case they are going to (most likely) sell it at the market price, even if it's below (or above) what they think it's worth. Similarly there are buyers who could opt to rent in their new city for a year (a great idea) but due to internal or external pressures are going to buy a house in the short term. It doesn't really matter if they think the market is overpriced if they have already mentally committed to buying a house...they are going to, most likely, have to pay market price, not what they think something is worth. Happens every day. Similarly they aren't going to pay more for a house than what the market dictates just because it's worth more.

How else do you assign a value to the house? You can start with the equivalent rent, and take into account maintenance, insurance, taxes, tax deduction, uncertainty, fixed costs vs variable rent, appreciation / depreciation, etc...but that involves a lot of assumptions. Then you have to attach some value to the "I own it and can paint it whatever color I want" train of thought (even if you think it's pure idiocy to place any value on that, others do)...If people value something, they are going to pay more for it, that's the way the world works. What is a Prada handbag worth? The raw materials + labor + fair markup? The functional utility of the handbag? What someone is willing to pay for it?

Sure, things can get out of whack when people believe prices only go up, buy over their head because the bank lets them, starts buying second and third houses speculatively...but you have to at least give a nod to the idea that if multiple someones are willing to pay $X for a house, that $X has some relation to the value of the house. Not necessarily intrinsic value, not necessarily the "right" value, but I don't see how you can ignore it.

The thing is, Americans on the whole make enough money to meet their basic needs and have excess to spend. Since they aren't going to save or invest, it's going to go somewhere...given the nature of housing (fixed location, scarcity, status), it seems reasonable that the excess $ is going to go, at least in part, to housing prices.

So, how do you assign value to a house?

JodyChunder says

You don't really believe that. The transaction you describe would be more of an (extreme) outlier; not evidence of the real underlying value of the rusty nail.

Millions of people are buying bottled water for $3.50 a bottle....

At this point - you got bottled water - its worth $3.50 a bottle whether its really worth it or not. That's what you can get for it in the free market - that's what its worth.
Who gives a $hit about REAL underlying value?? Is a hamburger at McDonalds worth $1.50?? Is a Big Mac Meal worth $6.99.- ??

robertoaribas says

"the real estate market never changes"

That is correct professor.

SubOink says

Millions of people are buying bottled water for $3.50 a bottle

Millions more, probably billions more, drink water from a recycled bottle for far less.

swebb says

So, how do you assign value to a house?

The buyer, and seller assign the value to the house.

I look at a house, kick the tires, figure out what it will cost to repair, my level of desire, and make an offer.

The seller decides what they want to get out of the house.

We may both look at market conditions from different perspectives. Roberto see an escalating market, I see one that may well crash. I thought we might have a soft landing, but each day we get worse economic news.

The buyer, and seller can tell each other the opinions they have, and either come to a meeting of the minds, or walk away.

The value of the property is what the negotiated price, terms, and conditions end up being for each individual.

The jist of this give & go is based on a fictional situation amplified to magnify the relationship of money versus value.

The local water supply pH would not come into question if one were therefore to add to the fray another fictional factoid such as "rusty nails are the only physical object proven to aid in orgasmic ........".......oh, my coffee's ready. gotta go..

JodyChunder says

SubOink says

Wrong. If somebody was to pay you $450k for a rusty nail then that nail is worth $450k - period!

You don't really believe that. The transaction you describe would be more of an (extreme) outlier; not evidence of the real underlying value of the rusty nail.

SubOink says

If I keep selling

Actually, if you were somehow able to KEEP selling rusty nails for half a million dollars, this discussion would shift from one of supply and demand to one of widespread aberrant behavior, and questions as to the pH of your local water supply!

that $ 3.50 depends on the size of the bottle, and where it's being delivered. ie marriot sheraton hotel.....
If one were to get up off their ass and go to the local 7/11 they could get bottled water for less than a dollar.
It's not about the water, but like real estate, location location location.

SubOink says

JodyChunder says

You don't really believe that. The transaction you describe would be more of an (extreme) outlier; not evidence of the real underlying value of the rusty nail.

Millions of people are buying bottled water for $3.50 a bottle....

At this point - you got bottled water - its worth $3.50 a bottle whether its really worth it or not. That's what you can get for it in the free market - that's what its worth.

Who gives a $hit about REAL underlying value?? Is a hamburger at McDonalds worth $1.50?? Is a Big Mac Meal worth $6.99.- ??

Bigsby says

You're still peddling that line I see.

You're still enjoying the taste of robertoaribas' cock I see.

CameronCrazy says

Bigsby says

You're still peddling that line I see.

You're still enjoying the taste of robertoaribas' cock I see.

You seem to have a fascination with cock. I presume that is because you are such a massive dick.

And as you were wrong about Roberto's purchase, are you actually going to hold your hands up and admit your error, or are you just going to continue with your cyber stalking?

Bigsby says

You're still enjoying the taste of robertoaribas' cock I see.

Bigsby - blowing roberto since 2010!

yup1 says

Bigsby says

You're still enjoying the taste of robertoaribas' cock I see.

Bigsby - blowing roberto since 2010!

Ah yes, another Roberto stalker. You and the other dipshit seem to have a lot in common. You aren't the same person, are you? Discovered Hotspot Shield or some such, have you?

Oh, and I started posting on here in Nov 2011, so at least try and get the basics of your blowing insults right.

Bigsby says

Oh, and I started blowing roberto on here in Nov 2011

Yeah that pretty much says it all.

yup1 says

Bigsby says

Oh, and I started blowing roberto on here in Nov 2011

Yeah that pretty much says it all.

That's really impressive. You edited my post. How clever.

Bigsby says

Ah yes, another Roberto stalker. You and the other dipshit seem to have a lot in common. You aren't the same person, are you? Discovered Hotspot Shield or some such, have you?

Oh, and I started posting on here in Nov 2011, so at least try and get the basics of your blowing insults right.

Oh damn!! You got us! Accusing us of being the same person and then pointing out you've only had another guy in your mouth since November 2011, not 2010. You sure put us in our place.

robertoaribas says

Yup1: lives in sacramento... thought housing prices would drop further, but they
have flown upwards even faster than Phoenix prices. So, he is very very bitter,
because he completely screwed up.

LOL dude I can be a homeowner and still be a bear. I can even own more than 1 home and be a bear. I do not attempt to make money on each and every turn in the market. I make enough money off the investments that I have made in myself.

Bigsby says

That's really impressive. You edited my post. How clever.

Thanks, it was easy, and much more accurate!

CameronCrazy says

Bigsby says

Ah yes, another Roberto stalker. You and the other dipshit seem to have a lot in common. You aren't the same person, are you? Discovered Hotspot Shield or some such, have you?

Oh, and I started posting on here in Nov 2011, so at least try and get the basics of your blowing insults right.

Oh damn!! You got us! Accusing us of being the same person and then pointing out you've only had another guy in your mouth since November 2011, not 2010. You sure put us in our place.

Wow, you two really are a tandem of stupidity. Good job in the lack of novelty stakes. Care to think up some other insult or is that beyond you?

yup1 says

Bigsby says

That's really impressive. You edited my post. How clever.

Thanks, it was easy, and much more accurate!

Yeah, because complex is beyond you. And any semblance of intelligence apparently. Childish insults seem to be about your limit. Well done.

Bigsby says

Yeah, because complex is beyond you. And any semblance of intelligence
apparently. Childish insults seem to be about your limit. Well done.

Blowing roberto with no thoughts of your own is impressive. I guess he skull fucked you and all that is left working is your brain stem. Good thing for roberto your suck dick reflex still works.

Bigsby says

Wow, you two really are a tandem of stupidity

Haha you've swallowed so much of Roberto that now his words are coming out of your mouth.

CameronCrazy says

Bigsby says

Wow, you two really are a tandem of stupidity

Haha you've swallowed so much of Roberto that now his words are coming out of your mouth.

Are you trying to say you aren't stupid? Your posts demonstrate otherwise.

Bigsby says

Are you trying to say you aren't stupid? Your posts demonstrate
otherwise.

He is trying to say you need to keep swallowing and stop talking.

yup1 says

Bigsby says

Yeah, because complex is beyond you. And any semblance of intelligence

apparently. Childish insults seem to be about your limit. Well done.

Blowing roberto with no thoughts of your own is impressive. I guess he skull fucked you and all that is left working is your brain stem. Good thing for roberto your suck dick reflex still works.

Do you feel empowered by being so childish?

yup1 says

Bigsby says

Are you trying to say you aren't stupid? Your posts demonstrate

otherwise.

He is trying to say you need to keep swallowing and stop talking.

I think you just need to grow up. Trolling a real estate forum really doesn't reflect that well on you. It's actually quite amazing the way the internet seems to make people like you think it's OK to behave in such a way. I guess it's an outlet for your inadequacies.

Bigsby says

Do you feel empowered by being so childish?

Give me a break. You think you and roberto aren't childish all the time. Yes I try and spin you and roberto up and yes you both do the same back. Don't act like you haven't been a complete asshat on here a number of times, for roberto he is an asshat on here all the time.

yup1 says

Bigsby says

Do you feel empowered by being so childish?

Give me a break. You think you and roberto aren't childish all the time. Yes I try and spin you and roberto up and yes you both do the same back. Don't act like you haven't been a complete asshat on here a number of times, for roberto he is an asshat on here all the time.

Show me the posts where I have made completely unwarranted comments like yours on a repeated basis. I'm perfectly within my rights to respond to your constant insults. You are a troll plain and simple. You have trotted out this pathetic little line of yours again and again. You really do need to grow up. For a supposed adult to behave the way you do speaks volumes I'm afraid.

Bigsby says

Show me the posts where I have made completely unwarranted comments like
yours on a repeated basis. I'm perfectly within my rights to respond to your
constant insults. You are a troll plain and simple. You have trotted out this
pathetic little line of yours again and again. You really do need to grow up.
For a supposed adult to behave the way you do speaks volumes I'm
afraid.

And roberto?

yup1 says

Bigsby says

Show me the posts where I have made completely unwarranted comments like

yours on a repeated basis. I'm perfectly within my rights to respond to your

constant insults. You are a troll plain and simple. You have trotted out this

pathetic little line of yours again and again. You really do need to grow up.

For a supposed adult to behave the way you do speaks volumes I'm

afraid.

And roberto?

You are insulting me, so what the fuck has Roberto got to do with it?

Bigsby says

You are insulting me, so what the fuck has Roberto got to do with it?

You come on here and defend roberto like his little bitch. That is why I insult you for being his little bitch. Stop being his little bitch and I will stop insulting you. Bitch!

yup1 says

Bigsby says

You are insulting me, so what the fuck has Roberto got to do with it?

You come on here and defend roberto like his little bitch. That is why I insult you for being his little bitch. Stop being his little bitch and I will stop insulting you. Bitch!

Good grief. Are you twelve? Is there some kind of law where I have to agree with your opinion and disagree with Roberto's? All you ever do is come on here and attack anything that Roberto says. What does that make you? His anti-bitch? I happen to dislike the style of Roberto's posts, but the actual content, well that's a different matter. He has been shown to have been on the right side of the judgement calls and you and others much less so. You don't seem to like that. Tough.

robertoaribas says

oh come on Yup1... let's go back to the good old days, when you were bragging
about being a nuclear geek engineer... and how you make so much more money...
and how you also are a 280 pound biker badass who wanted to fight me... and how
Phoenix sux cause its hot, yet you live in sacramento...

Well the fact is I make more money than you. The fact is you wanted to fight me. The fact is Phoenix is on average 15 F hotter than Sacramento. Sacramento is an 1.5 hours from the ocean and 1.5 hours from Lake tahoe. I can walk from my house to a beautiful lake. I can ride my hog without worrying about dying of heat exhaustion. You can keep Phoenix and your slums.

Bigsby says

What does that make you? His anti-bitch?

At least you can admit to being his bitch.

yup1 says

Bigsby says

What does that make you? His anti-bitch?

At least you can admit to being his bitch.

I see that reading comprehension isn't your strong point.

By the way, you have an interesting writing style for a supposedly highly paid 280 pound biker.

Bigsby says

Are you trying to say you aren't stupid? Your posts demonstrate otherwise.

I was only trying to get the thread completely off topic of Roberto's post. Thanks for the help!

CameronCrazy says

Bigsby says

Are you trying to say you aren't stupid? Your posts demonstrate otherwise.

I was only trying to get the thread completely off topic of Roberto's post. Thanks for the help!

A quick glance at all 30 of your worthless comments shows that your only purpose for posting on here is to insult Roberto, make false/unproven accusations against him, or insult those who happen to agree with some of his arguments. So yes, we are all well aware that the topic of any thread you post in is clearly an irrelevance to you.

Bigsby says

A quick glance at all 2484 of my worthless comments show that my only purpose
for posting on here is to blow Roberto

Ok it is correct now.

I get the picture now.

yup1 says

Bigsby says

A quick glance at all 2484 of my worthless comments show that my only purpose

for posting on here is to blow Roberto

Ok it is correct now.

Wow, what an inspired response. How novel. You edited my post again.

Shall we have a look at your 360 comments as well? Ah yes, post after post of cock insults intermixed with personal insults aimed at Roberto. Well done. I sure get the feeling you're a highly paid nuclear engineer from the comments you make. Or rather you come across as a very insecure and inadequate individual who gets his sense of empowerment by acting the keyboard warrior on the internet. Good going.

Bigsbys Blowjobs says

I get the picture now.

That you are a very sad individual who thinks it's clever making up such an additional profile? Is being moronic under just a single name not enough for you?