patrick.net

wthrfrk80 says

RentingForHalfTheCost says

Well, we are close. We have money being lent to people who know how to use creative income reporting.

True that. That's the downside of lending to "creative" people. From what I can see of the whole housing bubble fiasco out there, there are a lot of "creative" people in the Bay Area. And they caused plenty of "collateral damage" to the rest of the economy.

There are a lot of "creative" people in the Bay Area who don't have a lick of common sense and have been raised in upper middle class circumstances which they take for granted.

That IS the issue here, and it's everywhere. When you hire a general contractor, you see it. When you go to a restaurant, you see it. When you go to work and look at people in the other cubes, you see it. When I come back from a few hours with a flight instructor and see a Baby Boomer wench in the expensive jogging outfit who's paying her bill at the FBO, I see it.

I guess the point I want to make is, what we see here is NOT NORMAL. People do not carry on like this in other parts of the country. People do not have money like this in other parts of the country. This is an economic and cultural BUBBLE. It's Disneyland...but if you're gonna live in Disneyland, you have to make some adjustments. You need to make good money. You need to have a solid moral foundation. You need to have some discipline.

You also need to be realist...and if that means you want to live a certain way or if you don't want your wife to work or if she can't for whatever reason, you might have to leave the area. A lot of the issues I see posted here about cost of living and housing, etc in the various parts of the Bay Area could be easily interchanged with Arlington (northern Virginia) or Brookline (Boston suburbs) or Chevy Chase (southern MD burbs of DC) or even Plano (far north Dallas suburbs) or a dozen other places. It costs money to live in a desirable area especially when the Chinese are flooding in here with Dollars we gave them, looking to invest.

Here again, is there some important point I've missed?

rootvg says

is there some important point I've missed?

rootvg, It sounds like the point you are missing is that you don't belong here. Your opinions about many of your neighbors proves it:
rootvg says

the Bay Area IS irrational behavior and the sick part of it is, it pays.

rootvg says

Did you also know SF was at one time a Republican town? Yes! Before the military started discharging faggots here

rootvg says

I'm not phobic at all. I don't like them. I think they're subhuman. They're chronically angry at the world, perpetually unstable emotionally and aspire to corrupt everything they touch. They hate middle America and everything it stands for.

They also just about own the Democratic party.

It used to be a faggot couldn't get a security clearance to do defense work because someone could blackmail them

What that tells me is you're one of them, looking to score points.

Take your best shot, but remember I'll look upon that as a license to chew on you like a rabid dog. I've been doing this for VERY long time.

I stand behind everything I've said...and there's NOTHING you can do about it.

Aren't there laws against such hate-filled bollocks? Rootvg, it's not gay people who are the problem, it's people like you.

Bigsby says

Aren't there laws against such hate-filled bollocks? Rootvg, it's not gay people who are the problem, it's people like you.

You've been in California too long.

I haven't committed any crime and I won't. Being an perpetually unstable drama queen accustomed to people genuflecting in your presence is YOUR problem, not mine. Where I'm from, you shut up and behave like an adult. You're not royalty there because you don't control the political process. You don't have a mob to do your bidding.

rootvg says

Bigsby says

Aren't there laws against such hate-filled bollocks? Rootvg, it's not gay people who are the problem, it's people like you.

You've been in California too long.

I haven't committed any crime and I won't. Being an perpetually unstable drama queen accustomed to people genuflecting in your presence is YOUR problem, not mine. Where I'm from, you shut up and behave like an adult. You're not royalty there because you don't control the political process. You don't have a mob to do your bidding.

I don't live in California. And hell, why don't you follow your own bloody advice - "Where I'm from, you shut up and behave like an adult." That would be preferable to your frothing-at-the-mouth, bulging-eyed bigotry.

Bigsby says

rootvg says

Bigsby says

Aren't there laws against such hate-filled bollocks? Rootvg, it's not gay people who are the problem, it's people like you.

You've been in California too long.

I haven't committed any crime and I won't. Being an perpetually unstable drama queen accustomed to people genuflecting in your presence is YOUR problem, not mine. Where I'm from, you shut up and behave like an adult. You're not royalty there because you don't control the political process. You don't have a mob to do your bidding.

I don't live in California. And hell, why don't you follow your own bloody advice - "Where I'm from, you shut up and behave like an adult." That would be preferable to your frothing-at-the-mouth, bulging-eyed bigotry.

Here again, I'm not the type who's easily intimidated.

I'm not a drama queen. I'm not unstable. I'm not a flake.

You'll just have to deal with me another way.

Remember: wings level, nose down, flaps up.

Think, don't feel. Feeling is destructive. If you're flying an airplane, feeling will get you and whoever is with you killed. Thinking and acting accordingly will probably save your life.

Hey rootvg,

where do you work?

B.A.C.A.H. says

Hey rootvg,

where do you work?

Wouldn't you like to know!

Hey rootvg, are you telling some of your coworkers and some of your management what you think about them?

Most of the people I work with are in another state and the ones I do interact with on a daily basis think as I do.

I'm not giving you any information. You may as well stop digging.

Hey rootvg why not? Won't you stand by what you wrote?

rootvg says

the Bay Area IS irrational behavior and the sick part of it is, it pays.

rootvg says

Did you also know SF was at one time a Republican town? Yes! Before the military started discharging faggots here

rootvg says

I'm not phobic at all. I don't like them. I think they're subhuman. They're chronically angry at the world, perpetually unstable emotionally and aspire to corrupt everything they touch. They hate middle America and everything it stands for.

They also just about own the Democratic party.

It used to be a faggot couldn't get a security clearance to do defense work because someone could blackmail them

B.A.C.A.H. says

Hey rootvg why not? Won't you stand by what you wrote?

rootvg says

the Bay Area IS irrational behavior and the sick part of it is, it pays.

rootvg says

Did you also know SF was at one time a Republican town? Yes! Before the military started discharging faggots here

rootvg says

I'm not phobic at all. I don't like them. I think they're subhuman. They're chronically angry at the world, perpetually unstable emotionally and aspire to corrupt everything they touch. They hate middle America and everything it stands for.

They also just about own the Democratic party.

It used to be a faggot couldn't get a security clearance to do defense work because someone could blackmail them

There is one story I want to tell.

During the Kerry campaign in 2004, there was a meeting of supporters that was carried by C-SPAN. Everything they've ever done is catalogued now and I've been trying to dig it up but can't remember the details. There was one gay supporter (a real drama queen) who went off like a mental patient on whoever it was chairing the meeting, saying Kerry wasn't a strong enough supporter of their cause. It was really something to watch, saying his support "wasn't good enough". This is a grown man squealing like a pig and squirming in his seat like a little girl who had to use the restroom, all caught on live on camera by C-SPAN. That was when I thought back to what my prof had said in 1991 about how everything these people touch, they seek to corrupt. In one flash, it all came together.

I have other stories like that to tell. If you keep picking a fight, I'll tell them here.

rootvg says

Think, don't feel. Feeling is destructive. If you're flying an airplane, feeling will get you and whoever is with you killed. Thinking and acting accordingly will probably save your life.

Give me strength. Why don't you follow your own advice? You're not thinking at all.

rootvg says

There is one story I want to tell.

During the Kerry campaign in 2004, there was a meeting of supporters that was carried by C-SPAN. Everything they've ever done is catalogued now and I've been trying to dig it up but can't remember the details. There was one supporter who really went off on whoever it was chairing the meeting, saying Kerry wasn't a strong enough supporter of their cause. It was really something to watch...saying his support "wasn't good enough". This is a grown man squealing like a pig and squirming in his seat like a little girl who had to use the restroom...all caught on live on camera by C-SPAN. That was when I thought back to what my prof had said in 1991 about how everything these people touch, they seek to corrupt. In one flash, it all came together.

I have other stories like that to tell. If you keep picking a fight, I'll tell them here.

Wow, that's a stunning story. Really, I'm stunned. Stunned at how ridiculous it is. What exactly has all that got to do with you calling gay people sub-human?

Is Bay Area housing crash over?

ask the same question next year this time.

rootvg says

I'll tell them here.

Please do.

Your gay neighbors, gay vendors, gay coworkers, gay management, gay customers, gay civil servants like the gay coworkers and gay management of your public sector spouse and the gay taxpayers who support her, are also Americans like you and like me and like Bigsby.

It's not just your bigotry against gays that is offensive. It's your bigotry against Americans that is offensive, too.

Please tell us, please educate us.

Patrick: Please don't allow your site to become yet another extension of the extremist, bigoted, christainist, right wing blogosphere. "rootvg" has absolutely nothing constructive or reasoned to say about anything and is only here to show off his anti gay hate and intellectually stunted brain. I am not against hate speech of the likes of rootvg's posts, I just prefer not to go to places where such hate is tolerated or supported by the blog owner or blog community. Please censor this ass. Thanks.

I also just noted your comment policy: "Comment Policy: Insult Another User, Go To Jail" Please send rootvg to jail. Thanks.

Buster says

Patrick: Please don't allow your site to become yet another extension of the extremist, bigoted, christainist, right wing blogosphere

Im also a Christian and a Republican Conservative... Am i yet another extension of the extremism you dislike.. dont you think you need to re-edit your comments ?

There are plenty of left-wing bigots on Patricks, but who complains ?

Buster says

Patrick: Please don't allow your site to become yet another extension of the extremist, bigoted, christainist, right wing blogosphere. "rootvg" has absolutely nothing constructive or reasoned to say about anything and is only here to show off his anti gay hate and intellectually stunted brain. I am not against hate speech of the likes of rootvg's posts, I just prefer not to go to places where such hate is tolerated or supported by the blog owner or blog community. Please censor this ass. Thanks.

He is entitled to his opinion and let's face it . It is much better to have these people express their views online rather than in the real world .

Bigsby says

Think, don't feel. Feeling is destructive. If you're flying an airplane, feeling will get you and whoever is with you killed. Thinking and acting accordingly will probably save your life.

ah, but science has proven that cognition is not separate from emtions; no decision can be arrived at without feelings. Feelings are important! AND I HAVE THEM!

I think you'll find that it was rootvg who said that rather than me.

JodyChunder says

Bigsby says

Think, don't feel. Feeling is destructive. If you're flying an airplane, feeling will get you and whoever is with you killed. Thinking and acting accordingly will probably save your life.

ah, but science has proven that cognition is not separate from emtions; no decision can be arrived at without feelings. Feelings are important! AND I HAVE THEM!

I'll make sure and tell the NTSB guy what you said.

thomas.wong1986 says

Buster says

Patrick: Please don't allow your site to become yet another extension of the extremist, bigoted, christainist, right wing blogosphere

Thomas, I don't have a problem with you being a conservative christian republican. I do have a problem with bigoted christianists spreading hate. I have not known you to be part of this club.

Im also a Christian and a Republican Conservative... Am i yet another extension of the extremism you dislike.. dont you think you need to re-edit your comments ?

There are plenty of left-wing bigots on Patricks, but who complains ?

JodyChunder says

Bigsby says

Think, don't feel. Feeling is destructive. If you're flying an airplane, feeling will get you and whoever is with you killed. Thinking and acting accordingly will probably save your life.

@Jody; So true. And those that cut off their feelings remain disconnected and miss out on the best things life has to offer.

ah, but science has proven that cognition is not separate from emtions; no decision can be arrived at without feelings. Feelings are important! AND I HAVE THEM!

Yes, pretty much everything in the middle of the country is reasonable even at the high end. It's the coasts that are bad deals for high-end buyers (compared to renting the same thing there).

Is that statement based on fact/data? As I said, I checked San Antonio, where there was little if any bubble, and a $1M home was definitely much cheaper to rent than to purchase based on craigslist and current list prices. Keep in mind that TX has very high property taxes, I think ~3%. I just checked Omaha, and based on craigslist, it looks like a $1M home rents somewhere between $3600-$4000. If you get a 30-yr fixed mortgage at 4.6% for $800k (assuming 20% down on $1M house), your P+I alone is $4100/mo. I don't know property taxes in NE. Unless property taxes are negative, you are paying more to own than to rent, and that doesn't include maintenance. That's 2 places that I would consider middle of the country, where higher end housing (comparable to Cupertino in terms of sales price) is not balanced as far as rents justifying purchasing.

Buster says

I also just noted your comment policy: "Comment Policy: Insult Another User, Go To Jail" Please send rootvg to jail. Thanks.

So, how's it going?

Buster says

I also just noted your comment policy: "Comment Policy: Insult Another User, Go To Jail" Please send rootvg to jail. Thanks.

Did he deliberately insult another user?

Buster says

I also just noted your comment policy: "Comment Policy: Insult Another User, Go To Jail" Please send rootvg to jail. Thanks.

Did he deliberately insult another user?

Well, calling anyone who's gay subhuman...

Bigsby says

Well, calling anyone who's gay subhuman...

Ah, OK I found a quote of that comment. Looks like he deleted the original.

"Subhuman" is definitely not a polite way to express an opinion. It's a dilemma between allowing comments that are pointlessly rude and censoring someone's opinion.

Well, this thread got "interesting."

It's a dilemma between allowing comments that are pointlessly rude and censoring someone's opinion.

Yeah, it can be tricky. Our first amendment allows anyone to express an opinion, no matter how offensive it is (unless it can be classified as defamation of character). However, it only states that the government and its various subsidiaries cannot stop someone from expressing themselves. Private parties certainly can, such as newspapers, TV news and sites like this.

The folks that are most offended presumably want it removed because they are afraid that someone will be "turned" by his thoughts & become bigots or something. That is completely illogical! If the comments are as mindless as the offended folks say, then nobody is going to be swayed by them and they certainly aren't going to get support from anyone with half of a brain. If anything, it seems most logical to allow someone to be openly bigoted on the internet because it outs them to everyone on the board!

I wouldn't be half surprised if this was a game rootvg was setting up to prove his think vs feel point. People FEEL strongly because of something and then demand action because they feel offended, but for illogical reasons. Other than being offensive, what possible other threat do his comments pose to anyone? Hell, people here were trying to figure out where he works so that they could try to get him fired! Trying to cause personal harm to someone because they said something offensive is pretty thoughtless, and goes well beyond asking for him to be banned from a site. Yes, his opinions are bigoted, but he never indicated anywhere that he has ever DONE anything to a gay person other than dislike them.

If he has set this up as a game, at least a few people have played right into it. Yeah, the dude's a big old bigot. However, his point that people feel more than they think has been proven in here, and I even agree that it is a problem in our society. Trying to eliminate bigotry by reactionary emotional responses isn't going to work, and all it has proven to do is elicit emotional knee-jerk responses back from the bigots. Bigotry can and should be fought with thought and logic. There are some logical reasons for why Patrick should censor the guy, and nobody has even started to go down that road. Honestly, from reading this thread, rootvg has proven that he is better at the thinking game than his opponents. It is a mistake to totally write-off someone that expresses bigoted views under the assumption that "no person with a brain could possibly be a bigot" because they may just be one or two two steps ahead of you once you fire up the emotions. Assuming that being "anti-bigot" automatically makes you enlightened just means that you turn your brain off, and then the bigots win.

"Subhuman" is definitely not a polite way to express an opinion. It's a dilemma between allowing comments that are pointlessly rude and censoring someone's opinion.

Give the guy a break. He's been under attack from all sides since announcing he did the unthinkable and actually bought a house.

Well as far as rootvg is concerned, he seems to take delight that Patrick and others support his pointless hate mongering. While I find him loathsome, I can easily ignore such drivel. The point I was trying to make is that this is supposedly a blog about real estate and that is why I visit it. If you choose to make this just another, of many, blogs about right wing crusades to turn america into sharia or christainist theocratic kingdoms, than so be it. Perhaps I just need to find a real estate blog that, well, is focused on real estate.

Lastly, Patrick, if you are not going to enforce your very own stated comments policy; "Comment Policy: Insult Another User, Go To Jail", then you should remove this statement entirely.

Buster says

Well as far as rootvg is concerned, he seems to take delight that Patrick and others support his pointless hate mongering. While I find him loathsome, I can easily ignore such drivel. The point I was trying to make is that this is supposedly a blog about real estate and that is why I visit it. If you choose to make this just another, of many, blogs about right wing crusades to turn america into sharia or christainist theocratic kingdoms, than so be it. Perhaps I just need to find a real estate blog that, well, is focused on real estate.

There are plenty of threads here that aren't directly about real estate. Compared to other places I've been, posters here are fairly well informed. I see the typical Bay Area left wing dreck here and there but on balance, it's not a bad site.

Buster, nobody hates you.

I don't support pointless hate mongering. But I'm also sensitive to accusations of censorship, so I try to avoid deleting things. You can always put the guy on ignore.

But you're right that discussions about other topics belong in one of the other forums. I created the Politics and Religion forums exactly for that stuff.

Buster says

Lastly, Patrick, if you are not going to enforce your very own stated comments policy; "Comment Policy: Insult Another User, Go To Jail", then you should remove this statement entirely.

Did he deliberately insult you personally?

Precisely why I don't visit the politics and religion forums and stick to the real estate forums. I really don't see where epitaphs that he uses such as 'faggot' or 'subhuman' is contributing anything constructive to a thread supposedly about real estate. But in the end, it is your blog and you are the master of your universe. Sad. I will find another that better suits my interest in real estate and one that doesn't encourage stupid and hateful bigoted rants. Signing off.