patrick.net

mell says

The world will have to deal with Iran then when the time comes.

You mean our allies who wern't informed and are not supportive of the killing and were trying to keep the deal with Iran intact? What Trump has done is take any negotiated deal off the table,.we pretty much own this problem now. Trump has no coherent strategy to deal with Iran. Anyway we will see how it plays out. Nothing any of us can do about it.

Chiromancer says

mell says

The world will have to deal with Iran then when the time comes.

You mean our allies who wern't informed and are not supportive of the killing and were trying to keep the deal with Iran intact? What Trump has done is take any negotiated deal off the table,.we pretty much own this problem now. Trump has no coherent strategy to deal with Iran. Anyway we will see how it plays out. Nothing any of us can do about it.

Because Iran always was trying to get nukes asap nothing has changed except for the fact that someone showed them they're serious. Good for the US allies.

Bath House Barry threatened to shoot down Israels missile if they tried to take out General Fuckface Salami, back in 2015.

https://www.jihadwatch.org/2020/01/obama-stopped-israel-from-killing-soleimani-in-2015-threatened-to-shoot-down-iaf-strike-on-iran

Chiromancer says

Trump has no coherent strategy to deal with Iran.

How do you know? You have an opinion with no basis in understanding anything about any of it. This might be the move that stabilizes the middle east and you're monday morning quarterbacking like you know anything about it. So sick of people jumping to conclusions on stuff they know NOTHING about. Just say you hate Trump and move along.

Chiromancer says

All chest thumping and stupid memes aside

Do you even lift, Bro?

Chiromancer says

If you were the ayatollah and the man who is widely agreed to be 2nd most powerful in Iran was just assasinated at Trump's command.

Think about that.

If you were the Ayatollah, and you were barely hanging on to power to the extent your religious police had to shoot 1000 protesters in the past few weeks, maybe having "somebody" get rid of a guy who is pushing for MORE expensive foreign interventions is a good thing for you.

WookieMan says

How do you know?

Because he and members of his cabinet have never articulated an Iran strategy. Other than Obama bad. Sure I guess it could be " tip top sekret" like his ISIS plan that was to continue Obama's but fuck the Kurds after the job is mostly done; but not likely because Trump can't keep his pie hole shut about anything. If you know what it is share, perhaps a tiny hint of strategy, other than blow up a guy and see what happens? Do you know? Because blind faith in the foreign policy of a man who doesnt read, needs cartoon representation of his daily briefs, blabs top secret information to the Russians in the oval office is nauseating.

NoCoupForYou says

Think about that.

Somebody probably sold the dude out. Glad he's gone just not the way it was done.

Chiromancer says

Because he and members of his cabinet have never articulated an Iran strategy.

When and why would a POTUS or his cabinet announce strategy against an enemy? Is that logical? I don't think Obama was bad, but his red line was clearly fake when he stated his "strategy" with Syria, so there's that. I don't actually have much of a problem with Obama, but he took it up the butt with Iran and I think even in Democrat circles that's obvious.

Problem is most Dems don't have a thumb apparently as they always try to point the finger. Seeing it again with impeachment and now pointing it at Trump for Obama's failed policies with Iran. LOL until you puke if you ever thought Iran stopped nuke exploration by PAYING them. Seriously....?!?

If Trump informed Congress, Omar and Taliban would have ran to the Iranians and warned them.

Propaganda in full swing now. NPR now now saying Trump targeting 52 cultural sites in Iran.

RC2006 says

Propaganda in full swing now. NPR now now saying Trump targeting 52 cultural sites in Iran.

Yep.

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, wept openly at the funeral for Gen. Qassem Soleimani. His tears give insight into how the death of the commander killed in a U.S. strike is being felt personally by the supreme leader. https://t.co/JuUCNNtyxQ— The Associated Press (@AP) January 6, 2020

It's almost as if the Media is on the side of Austere Religious Scholars.

"Did you ever stop to think how the Ayatollah would feel? He's crying - shame on you!"

www.youtube.com/embed/JXkN3nJyWEA

"Revered"

Ehem...

"At this point, WHAT difference, DOES It MAKE!?"

WookieMan says

When and why would a POTUS or his cabinet announce strategy against an enemy? Is that logical?

It is not logical if you want to go to war, per Pompeo, Bolton and others. It is logical if you wish to settle the dispute without violence. Trump has been all over the place. This is not helpful. At base he doesn't want war, but IMO he is completely out of his element and sphere of knowledge and is floundering in a very dangerous way. Even our allies have no idea of what he will do. And no, he isnt playing multi dimensional chess, he seems to acting on the impulse of the moment.
This link explores the subject if you are interested.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/06/world/middleeast/trump-iran-soleimani-strategy.html

Chiromancer says

At base he doesn't want war, but IMO he is completely out of his element and sphere of knowledge and is floundering in a very dangerous way.

Let me get this straight. You know, in your opinion, that someone you've never met is out of their element and knowledge? You know the knowledge he has with Iran? I get the skepticism and it may bear out to be warranted after WMD and Bush II, but you or I simply don't know. Hard to make these proclamations when you or I know shit about what Trump based his decision on.

Ultimately I think everyone can agree the ME is a shit hole right now. One of those bad actors was the guy we knocked out. Iran's economy blows and there is internal unrest and protest. Maybe this was just the time to act? They can't risk a war and their retaliation will likely be an attack on more oil infrastructure in the region (land or sea) to pump prices to those they sell to. Ultimately that pisses off their customer, but whatever.

Iran is in a lose/lose situation and I'm guessing that may have played into the decision along with a ton of other shit we all have no idea about.

WookieMan says

Let me get this straight. You know, in your opinion, that someone you've never met is out of their element and knowledge? You know the knowledge he has with Iran? I

Dude I did preface the remark by IMO, of course it's not the word of God, but it's an opinion formulated by listening , watching, reading and thinking. If you have any evidence to the contrary please present I am open to being convinced that Trump has an understanding of Iran and a sensible plan and strategy, short of war, to keep Iran from getting a Nuke. Because isnt that all we should care about? What can they do to really hurt Americans in mass and to cripple our actions without a nuke?
But you seem great at critiquing my criticism of Trumps understanding and abilities without presenting a scintilla of evidence to the contrary. Send me an interview where he makes the case for his understanding and strategy or even formulates one in a reasonably coherent fashion.

Roiled the stock markets? Fuck no, the market recovered almost instantly and finished green today. Fuck the NYT!

marcus says

becasue

Just because!

Prove that you can learn from your mistakes. Your credibility may rise.

Chiromancer says

WookieMan says

Let me get this straight. You know, in your opinion, that someone you've never met is out of their element and knowledge? You know the knowledge he has with Iran? I

Dude I did preface the remark by IMO, of course it's not the word of God, but it's an opinion formulated by listening , watching, reading and thinking. If you have any evidence to the contrary please present I am open to being convinced that Trump has an understanding of Iran and a sensible plan and strategy, short of war, to keep Iran from getting a Nuke. Because isnt that all we should care about? What can they do to really hurt Americans in mass and to cripple our actions without a nuke?
But you seem great at critiquing my criticism of Trumps understanding and abilities without presenting a scintilla of evidence to the contrary. Send me an interview where he makes the case for his understanding and strategy or...

There isn't much a threat as it has to cross Europe and would likely be shot down, either over the Atlantic or - heavens forbid - over Europe. Of course there's always the problem of detonating a dirty bomb from the inside. However, all these threats are moreso Israels and Europe's threats than the USs as they are immediate neighbors. Trump's actions don't make things worse, but delivered justice. If you're really so worried about people losing their lives by hand of Iran you should lobby for an Israel preemptive war on any hostile middle-eastern nation, if necessary with the ultima ratio (nukes). Sounds terrible? Yeah, definitely. But it is what it is, you have a fucked up region in which Israel has been the only sane state for more than 50 years now. Occasionally you have dictator capable of of delivering enough counterbalance to keep the crazies at bay, such as Saddam or Assad, but eventually it is up to Israel to figure out when enough is enough. Sure, Turkey, Russia and others may play a dangerous game by sympathizing with the crazies in hope of damaging the US a little, but ultimately these assholes - don't forget Pakistan - are right in front of their door and if you think they will be able to form an alliance against the US you are deeply mistaken, they will eventually annihilate each other if they let the crazies get their nukes. So stop blaming Trump.

Chiromancer says

And you watch Trump sucking Kim's dick because he has nukes. It dont take a fucking genius to say I want nukes. Would Trump assassinate me if I had a nuke? No he would suck my dick too and maybe throw in a rim job for good measure.

Has TDS no cure?

Chiromancer says

And you watch Trump sucking Kim's dick because he has nukes. It dont take a fucking genius to say I want nukes. Would Trump assassinate me if I had a nuke? No he would suck my dick too and maybe throw in a rim job for good measure.

Wrong. The case for not wanting nukes was torpedoed by Obama standing by and watching an ally who gave up the world's 3rd largest nuclear stockpile (with ICBMs, strategic bombers and all that jazz) in exchange to security and territorial integrity assurances from the USA being attacked, parts of it annexed and parts occupied by Russia (killing 15,000 Ukrainians in process). Oh, yeah, he gave them some blankets. Eventually.

If there ever was a case against giving up nukes in exchange for some "assurances" - this is the one, not some weak rhetorical bullshit about "Trump sucking somebody's dick".





More stupid disarmament porn here: https://www.rferl.org/a/the-destruction-of-ukraines-nuclear-arsenal/29699706.html

Rand Paul, he is careful in what he says, to not critique Trump or Pompeo but says what is probably going to be the result of this.


www.youtube.com/embed/O3grJUHDPek

Chiromancer says

but it's an opinion formulated by listening , watching, reading and thinking

Sources? I clearly state we know nothing, including you or myself.

Chiromancer says

But you seem great at critiquing my criticism of Trumps understanding and abilities without presenting a scintilla of evidence to the contrary.

WookieMan says

I get the skepticism and it may bear out to be warranted after WMD and Bush II, but you or I simply don't know.

You're making baseless claims about POTUS. I don't care that you trash Trump. I care that the claims are baseless. You, me or anyone has no clue what intelligence is out there. You can't judge any of this. I'd say the same with Obama, so this isn't a POTUS thing. People gotta stop acting like Trump or any POTUS is 100% making EVERY decision. It's a joke.

As I've said with other users, just say you hate Trump and we can move on with the conversation.

WookieMan says

As I've said with other users, just say you hate Trump and we can move on with the conversation.

Nope I dont hate him. i dont know the man personally. I do think, from the performance to date, he and his administration are woefully unprepared and incompetant.to deal with foreign affairs and crisis such as we now find ourselves in. And that you cannot believe, without verification, anything they say.

So what did you think of what Rand Paul said? I think he probably has it about right though no one can tell how this mess will play out.

Chiromancer says

WookieMan says

As I've said with other users, just say you hate Trump and we can move on with the conversation.

Nope I dont hate him. i dont know the man personally. I do think, from the performance to date, he and his administration are woefully unprepared and incompetant.to deal with foreign affairs and crisis such as we now find ourselves in. And that you cannot believe, without verification, anything they say.

So what did you think of what Rand Paul said? I think he probably has it about right though no one can tell how this mess will play out.

Rand Paul is prob right but so is Wookie. People blow this totally out of proportion because TDS. It's not always the prezs decision. Generals def have some leeway and can strike without the prez if they deem the situation necessitates it. This will be forgotten soon. TDS is here to stay, they'll latch onto something new.

I remain considering that this was done with some form of covert Iranian cooperation. Salami Baloney was committed to perpetual war because that's the way he liked it. Progressive Iranians, and young Iranians in particular, don't like the combination of religion dominated state government and war goading from what I can gather and would much rather have a peaceful, prosperous secular state.

:

mell says

Rand Paul is prob right but so is Wookie. People blow this totally out of proportion because TDS. It's not always the prezs decision. Generals def have some leeway and can strike without the prez if they deem the situati

What it boils down to is that no critique of Trump is tolerated. If Paul is probably right the only way to square that is that the Generals ordered the hit. No fucking way that happened. Yeah, I wasn't there but no General in their right mind would do this without Presidential authorization.

marcus says

:

Imminent? It was in fucking progress.

Which President designated Suleimani a Terrorist?

And then took him off the list as part of his Iran Deal?



https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11741235/Obamas-Iran-deal-has-just-granted-an-amnesty-to-the-worlds-leading-terrorist-mastermind.html?fbclid=IwAR0N-bgfEbBSAZYhOWgQ2xYtlCZAUF2Bm6zrb6QL0US8VVOyRzF7wpg4kEg