patrick.net

HappyGilmore says

rando says

When blindingly obvious reality can be denied, and the denial made into law so that others are forced to deny reality as well, then rationality and basic science are under threat by a kind of religious fundamentalism. Yes, far leftist beliefs are religion, however well-intentioned their advocates may believe themselves to be.

It is the far right and Trump that denies rationality and science again and again. I cannot comprehend how you can be bothered by people who deny reality and basic science, but yet vote for and approve of Trump.

So, you support brainwashing?

Patrick says

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

Except that's not at all what I'm doing. I'm not saying anything about whether there are two sexes or 20 sexes. I'm just commenting on the hypocrisy of your post.

WineHorror says

So, you support brainwashing?

Not at all. That was my point. A LOT of people have been brainwashed by Breitbart and Trump and it is having very detrimental effects on our country.

There are two genders, and then there are genetic mistakes, like people born deaf or with some inheritable genetic disease.

Don't pick on the handicapped, but don't design society around the idea that a fraction of people have no legs.

"We demand legless bathrooms in ALL facilities!" "We demand all countertops and tables in restuarants and hotels be at legless level!"

HappyGilmore says

WineHorror says

So, you support brainwashing?

Not at all. That was my point. A LOT of people have been brainwashed by Breitbart and Trump and it is having very detrimental effects on our country.

You should be more honest. The brainwashing you support is saying telling people, especially young and impressionable people, there are more than 2 genders.

WineHorror says

You should be more honest. The brainwashing you support is saying telling people, especially young and impressionable people, there are more than 2 genders.

No offense, but how about I tell you what I support and you can stick to posting what YOU support. I support science and letting the data and results speak for themselves. As well as letting peer review ferret out any bad science.

I support facts.

Hutch says

What gender is a banana slug?

What gender is an ant done? What gender is that rare species of hermaphroditic beatle? What gender is that fungus? Why are we going so far afield?

What gender is that Chimp? What gender is that Orangutan? Even, what gender is that Dog?

We're mammals, not insects.

A person is born male or female (and a infinitesimally tiny percentage of biological mutations, flukes like hermaphrodites ect.). What one does after that because of a defect or choice is a personal matter, but don't push make believe shit after the fact on the rest of humanity.

HappyGilmore says

WineHorror says

So, you support brainwashing?

Not at all. That was my point. A LOT of people have been brainwashed by Breitbart and Trump and it is having very detrimental effects on our country.

A WHOLE Lot of people have been brainwashed by CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, Mother Jones, Think Progress, Salon, Slate , WaPo, NYT, Huff Post, Hillary, Bernie, and it is having a VERY detrimental effect on our country.

RC2006 says

A person is born male or female (and a infinitesimally tiny percentage of biological mutations, flukes like hermaphrodites ect.). What one does after that because of a defect or choice is a personal matter, but don't push make believe shit after the fact on the rest of humanity.

Sexual reproduction is a patriarchical myth bathed in Whiteness and Toxic Masculinity.

anon_e320a says

A WHOLE Lot of people have been brainwashed by CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, Mother Jones, Think Progress, Salon, Slate , WaPo, NYT, Huff Post, Hillary, Bernie, and it is having a VERY detrimental effect on our country.

I know you are but what am I?

Two reproductive sexes and variants, just as the Founding Geneticists intended.

rando says

Lol, good find. Yes, the B in LGBT is a tacit admission that there are exactly two genders: the one that creates eggs and gives birth and the one that creates sperm and impregnates the other.

This whole argument is stupid, but the leftists are asking you to admit that the sheer binary nature of the matter is false. Namely, that there is an infinitesimally small number of humans who do not fit into the definition of male or female. In other words, if you truly wish to move on all you have to do is say:

"I acknowledge there is a very small fraction of persons that to not fit into the definition of male or female"

Do this and the left and the right will quickly lose interest in trolling and triggering their counterparties as is the case with what our friend Pepe is doing here. In other words, if you want to get to serious issues, acknowledge and move on. If not, stay here and keep trolling and triggering your counterparties fighting the culture wars by proxy on patnet for the next 40 years.

Your choice.

rando says

When blindingly obvious reality can be denied, and the denial made into law so that others are forced to deny reality as well, then rationality and basic science are under threat by a kind of religious fundamentalism. Yes, far leftist beliefs are religion, however well-intentioned their advocates may believe themselves to be.

If that's the case, get people to stop believing in god first. That clearly does more harm.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque

anon_5c762 says

rando says

When blindingly obvious reality can be denied, and the denial made into law so that others are forced to deny reality as well, then rationality and basic science are under threat by a kind of religious fundamentalism. Yes, far leftist beliefs are religion, however well-intentioned their advocates may believe themselves to be.

If that's the case, get people to stop believing in god first. That clearly does more harm.

But two wrongs don't make a right.

Hutch says

What gender is a banana slug?

Why does it matter to you? Are you a slug? I know that I’m not and therefore slug gender doesn’t matter at all.

rando says

there are exactly two genders...by necessity their own parents are exactly two, one male and one female. As is the case for every single human being ever. And every mammal. And every bird. Etc.

anon_20dcf says

3: XX, XY, and other
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/q-a-mixed-sex-biology/

Others have tried showing facts to @Patrick on this point, but they don't dent his bubble. The PatNet formula for profiting from the Internets reminds me of the South Park underpants gnomes:

1) tell some % of people that they don't exist
2) count on SIWOTI to generate comments and page views
3) ??????
4) profit.

Trolling your own site with obvious falsehoods hurts your credibility and goodwill, and seems unlikely actually to result in any profits.

You bigots- no longer is it LGBT-it is now LGBTQ2. Even the prime Minister of Canada says so and he apologizes to them !!!!
www.youtube.com/embed/nRp7C-cMyo0

curious2 says

tell some % of people that they don't exist

Quoi?

I did not say anyone does not exist, only that there are, and always have been (barring severe chromosomal abnormality) only two genders.

rando says

I did not say....

rando says

every single human being ever.

Sorry if I misunderstood somehow.

curious2 says

rando says

I did not say....

rando says

every single human being ever.

Sorry if I misunderstood somehow.

LOL. classic!

curious2 says

Sorry if I misunderstood somehow.

Please explain how you could possibly misunderstand.

I claim there are only two genders (barring the XXY folks and similar severe genetic malformations). I do not claim that any person does not exist, only that some people choose to mislabel their own gender and then demand that the rest of the world agree with their error or face legal penalties.

Don't take it personally. It's only about saying that the emperor has no clothes when he really is naked. Everyone should do that, all the time.

rando says

I claim there are only two genders (barring the XXY folks and similar severe genetic malformations). I do not claim that any person does not exist, only that some people choose to mislabel their own gender and then demand that the rest of the world agree with their error or face legal penalties.

Thank you Patrick.

And yes, a penis = man. A vagina = woman.

Now if only Dan could understand this.

Josnuatrio - to which binary category do you assign the .001% born with BOTH a penis and a vagina?

anon_510fd says

Josnuatrio - to which binary category do you assign the .001% born with BOTH a penis and a vagina?

There are 2 sexes, male and female. And a negligible small amount of hermaphrodites which would simply be labeled "other".

rando says

Please explain how you could possibly misunderstand.

Perhaps I did understand correctly, and you have simply changed your story, backpedaling in the face of evidence. Compare your two statements below:

rando says

every single human being ever. And every mammal. And every bird. Etc.

rando says

(barring the XXY folks and similar severe genetic malformations).

So, now, you're beginning to acknowledge exceptions, which you call "severe." You seem to underestimate the number of people who differ from your "theory" (some might say dogma), and to overestimate the severity of such departures. You're talking about ~1% of the population, i.e more than a million Americans, including some who have impressive achievements. Were you ever an Olympic medal winner like Jenner? No, you were not. Were you ever a Navy SEAL like Kristin Beck? No, you were not. Perhaps because some of these people have more status than you, you feel a need to tear them down or assert that you know their lives better than they do. It would be better to let other people live their lives as best they can, and be thankful that you don't have the difficulties that you don't understand.

anon_510fd says

Josnuatrio - to which binary category do you assign the .001% born with BOTH a penis and a vagina?

That would be a genetic defect, or chromosome abnormality.

For fun: https://www.oddee.com/item_99220.aspx

curious2 says

So, now, you're beginning to acknowledge exceptions, which you call "severe." You seem to underestimate the number of people who differ from your "theory" (some might say dogma), and to overestimate the severity of such departures. You're talking about ~1% of the population, i.e more than a million Americans, including some who have impressive achievements.

What's the point? You don't have to call them defects or severe if you think that's cruel totally fine but they are variations of the 2 genders as even stated in the mixed-sex link. So they are not male or female enough to make a determination. Doesn't change the fact that there are 2 sexes, one on each end.

I said every human, mammal, bird ever has exactly two parents. That remains true.

I'm not backpedalling in the least.

TwoScoopsMcGee says

There are two genders, and then there are genetic mistakes, like people born deaf or with some inheritable genetic disease.

Don't pick on the handicapped, but don't design society around the idea that a fraction of people have no legs.

"We demand legless bathrooms in ALL facilities!" "We demand all countertops and tables in restuarants and hotels be at legless level!"

This. Pretty much everyone on here likely agrees that we should embrace and facilitate people that are different or disabled (as long as they are not hostile towards us). But we cannot give everybody on the other scale their own personally selected gender. Seems pretty obvious.

rando says

anon_2919c says

The delusion that there are more than two genders does not harm anyone.

I disagree.

When blindingly obvious reality can be denied, and the denial made into law so that others are forced to deny reality as well, then rationality and basic science are under threat by a kind of religious fundamentalism. Yes, far leftist beliefs are religion, however well-intentioned their advocates may believe themselves to be.

I think you posted this in the wrong thread @Patrick.

It belongs in the thread about Christian Republicans destroying freedoms and harming the citizenry for ~ a century now, with their Hemp/Cannabis Prohibition.

All Cost No Benefits is the mantra for Christian Republicans that hate freedom and seem to take joy in harming others. Sad

mell says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

There are two genders, and then there are genetic mistakes, like people born deaf or with some inheritable genetic disease.

Don't pick on the handicapped, but don't design society around the idea that a fraction of people have no legs.

"We demand legless bathrooms in ALL facilities!" "We demand all countertops and tables in restuarants and hotels be at legless level!"

This. Pretty much everyone on here likely agrees that we should embrace and facilitate people that are different or disabled (as long as they are not hostile towards us). But we cannot give everybody on the other scale their own personally selected gender. Seems pretty obvious.

Are you one of those who agree? Should The State be involved?

errc says

mell says

TwoScoopsMcGee says

There are two genders, and then there are genetic mistakes, like people born deaf or with some inheritable genetic disease.

Don't pick on the handicapped, but don't design society around the idea that a fraction of people have no legs.

"We demand legless bathrooms in ALL facilities!" "We demand all countertops and tables in restuarants and hotels be at legless level!"

This. Pretty much everyone on here likely agrees that we should embrace and facilitate people that are different or disabled (as long as they are not hostile towards us). But we cannot give everybody on the other scale their own personally selected gender. Seems pretty obvious.

Are you one of those who agree? Should The State be involved?

No, for non-governmental business they can do whatever they want, however wrt official IDs and such there would be simply no change, so nobody gets involved really. Depends on how far you want to go with the states rights, maybe states could define their own genders, but it can't interfere with federal official business or the constitution.

Ok so we ALL agree that the binary is false and that that ALL humans can fit into one of three categories

A. Male
B. Female
C. Mutations

And with that we can now say "case closed" to this thread and move on - thanks Patnet!!!

Patrick says

I said every human, mammal, bird ever has exactly two parents. That remains true.

I'm not backpedalling in the least.

Some of the intersex/nonbinary persons can become biological parents. So, even if you were referring only to the parents being of exactly two genders (sexes, technically), then that statement was incorrect from the start.

Also, with current technology, some people have three biological parents. Turtledove worked in assisted reproduction, and three biological parents are a common result in that field. I wish that she were around to explain further, but the relevant possibilities include nuclear and mitochondrial DNA in surrogacy, for example, where the surrogate mother provides mitochondrial DNA in addition to the two primary parents' nuclear DNA. In theory, nothing precludes increasing the number of biological parents that a person can have, and it is likely that the number may increase in future.

As for nuclear DNA, around 10% of current human DNA consists of retroviruses that infected our ancestors. Viral mutations may have accelerated evolution.

Respectfully, your "theory" seems to start with a dogmatic assumption and then to impose that upon a much more complex and nuanced world. People are complicated. Nature is a mad scientist, constantly reshuffling the deck, and does not care at all about anyone's theories. If a particular genetic combination (geneplex) survives and reproduces, then it carries forward to the next generation. Caitlin Jenner has 6 children. If you want to call Jenner female, intersex/nonbinary, or male with OCD, nature does not care. That geneplex survived and reproduced, so it worked and can recur.