patrick.net

These are people who have thousands of meetings a year.

Jr. and Kushner had cause to meet with Russian diplomats and lawyers prior to this? About policy? They were merely confused? Do you want to instead try that the SF-86 is just some typical legalese one must sign?

Flynn and Manafort were confused? They have both been, or currently are, foreign agents.

Sessions: http://www.factcheck.org/2017/03/did-sessions-lie/ ... Legally, too weak to get on perjury. Is that your moral compass now for if someone is lying? A strong enough case cannot be made, so, nope, not lying. It was a pretty serious omission, but we must extend the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, Sessions looks too guilty by association to clearly extend that for most.

This isn't circumstantial evidence. This is the left gone crazy.

What do investigators do with circumstantial evidence?
A) throw it out as not of interest
B) follow up and see where things lead

The more the right waves their hands, saying nothing to see here, the more the left is going to want to see what "isn't" there. This is mostly self inflicted by the Trump administration. Come forward. Disclose. Be honest and compliant.

And "the deep state" is the thing that is corrupt? Oh tell me more!

35

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 10:17am

The issue is far far beyond "who won". The issue has everything to do with caving to Russian interest, stepping down from being the world leader, and nothing short of the destruction of the Western lead world for the past 70+ years.

We tear ourselves apart and Russia loves it!

Darkness is Trump's only hope now. Hide!

36

Goran_K 2017 Jul 10, 10:17am

I actually hope the MSM continues to focus on Russia. It's helped the GOP immensely in special elections (4-0).

While the Democrat MSM concentrates on fantasy spy novels, 8 months in, they aren't talking about any policies; health care, jobs, immigration... nary a word from any major DNC heads about how they would improve any of those things.

It'll show in 2018, and 2020 just like it has showed in the special elections this year.

37

CBOEtrader 2017 Jul 10, 10:26am

What do investigators do with circumstantial evidence?

A) throw it out as not of interest

B) follow up and see where things lead

There has to be a minimal level of evidence to justify an investigation.

This witch-hunt is destroying the left, politically. Keep at it, i suppose, but the rational world is moving further away from your team by the day.

38 anonymous 2017 Jul 10, 10:28am

I actually hope the MSM continues to focus on Russia. It's helped the GOP immensely in special elections (4-0).

-------------

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

39

CBOEtrader 2017 Jul 10, 10:28am

Legally, too weak to get on perjury.

No. Sessions didnt lie. His meeting w that russian embassador was a publicly disclosed (to the entire world) routine meeting. Sessions said he never met with the Russians as a representative of the Trump campaign. It is a purely factual statement. Only a witch-hunting mob would suggest he lied. Witch-hunting mob= you.

40

CBOEtrader 2017 Jul 10, 10:30am

errc says

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

The behavior of this current crop of democrats is the most dangerous Ive ever seen in US politics. For the sake of our country, I want to see them crushed and to see their ashes scattered to the wind.

41

Goran_K 2017 Jul 10, 10:52am

errc says

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

Because I want the DNC to be better. Anyone who thinks the current incarnation of the DNC is helpful to this nation is just helping Republicans anyway.

I believe the the current leftist/progressive movement has perverted the current Democratic party that I was once part of. You know, the Democrat party where not everything was identity politics. The GOP used to be the dickheads back in the 1990s. Now the DNC are the major identity politics playing dickheads.

- Christianity is bad. Islam is good (despite the gay hate, woman hate, and basically anything "not Islam" hate.
- Feminism
- BLM and "Black people can't be racist because they don't have the power to enforce racism"
- Stealing/Redistributing other people's money to throw at the poor is a good thing.
- The reason black people can't succeed is "systemic racism", not the fact that they have the highest single parent family rate out of all minority groups in the U.S.

I could go on and on.

The faster the DNC is purged and destroyed, the better for the country, and politics in general. A new DNC that is less identity politics based and more solutions based is better for us all.

Identity politics is poison.

42 joeyjojojunior 2017 Jul 10, 11:00am

"I actually hope the MSM continues to focus on Russia. It's helped the GOP immensely in special elections (4-0)."

lol--and I hope you actually believe this. The average of those special elections shows a Republican loss of ~14% vs. previous elections

43 anonymous 2017 Jul 10, 11:03am

errc says

Why are you always rooting for Republicans and against Democrats? I thought you were a big time Independent?

The behavior of this current crop of democrats is the most dangerous Ive ever seen in US politics. For the sake of our country, I want to see them crushed and to see their ashes scattered to the wind.

You ever worry that you are focusing on the distractions, and missing out on reality?

Democrats are powerless. Republicans have complete and absolute control of the government. Just like it's been for most of my lifetime. I suggest paying attention to what Republicans are doing, and thoroughly scrutinize their actions. Who gives a shit about the democrats, they are powerless

44

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 11:06am

No. Sessions didnt lie. His meeting w that russian embassador was a publicly disclosed (to the entire world) routine meeting.

But he failed to claim it? That was monumentally dumb then wasn't it!

45

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 11:11am

The behavior of this current crop of democrats is the most dangerous Ive ever seen in US politics. For the sake of our country, I want to see them crushed and to see their ashes scattered to the wind.

How on earth is the Democratic arm of anything the most dangerous right now? The opposition is very difficult to muster at all. They have very marginal power, if any at all, right now.

46

FNWGMOBDVZXDNW 2017 Jul 10, 11:52am

1) Trump's popularity does not justify his actions.
2a) The total spent on the Georgia race was 60 million, so I don't know where this 'billions' comes from outside of someone's ass.
2a) Ossoff outspent Handel be 5:1, because tons of people gave him money, but outside groups on Handel's side outspent him 2.5:1. In other words, rich fuckers swooped in and bought Handel adds without contributing to her campaign directly (that would be illegal). In other words, Citizen's United saved the day for Handel.
https://www.issueone.org/money-behind-expensive-u-s-house-race-history/
3) Reps beat Dems in 4 elections, but those were to replace a Rep who left office. So, those are Republican districts that the Dem's are trying to turn. Wait until the Republicans have another year of failure under their belts before getting too complacent.

47

Heraclitusstudent 2017 Jul 10, 12:09pm

The Russia Narrative is officially dead

Nah. Wishful thinking. This thing will never end. They will keep it going forever. They will find more and more anecdotes, find the secret email servers, and the copies of the emails on some pervert's laptop.

48

Goran_K 2017 Jul 10, 12:09pm

YesYNot says

Wait until the Republicans have another year of failure under their belts before getting too complacent.

Are you kidding?

Bloomberg has reported another consecutive month of jobs expectations beating projections, labor participation rate is up by 0.3% since Trump took office, and the stock market has made many of us much richer.

Remember the "market crash" leftist like Mark Cuban were predicting if Trump were elected? Never fucking happened.

People care about putting food on the table, and paying their bills. They are now better off than they were before Trump took office. People are remembering this at the polls, and will in 2018.

49

Goran_K 2017 Jul 10, 12:27pm

Tim Aurora says

I cannot fathom any ideology supporting Trump

Have you seen Western Europe lately?

There is one party that would bring about the end of Western Civilization in North America, and it's not the GOP.

50

MisdemeanorRebel 2017 Jul 10, 12:50pm

My favorite is how fast Trump became a dangerous person when he left the establishment fix-no-problem reservation.

How did all those media companies carry this dangerous anti woman, racist, sexist, violent, etc person all those years?

51

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 12:57pm

Goran_K says

There is one party that would bring about the end of Western Civilization in North America, and it's not the GOP.

OMG! We are all gonna die!!!!!!!

52

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 1:00pm

Also, note, this thread now on anti-Islam/terrorism threat as a justification for Trump (Russia/Authoritarianism).

A scared population will give up rights in the face of the promise of security. Anyone remember post 9-11?

53

curious2 2017 Jul 10, 1:05pm

anti-Islam/terrorism threat as a justification for Trump (Russia/Authoritarianism).

Not true at all. The connection was a few TDS comments and people wondering how Democrats could lose. It has nothing to do with justifying authoritarianism, and we don't have that anyway. To the extent a risk of authoritarianism exists, your preference for Pence would increase it:

Anyone remember post 9-11?

Yes, that's one reason why I keep asking you about Bush 43, but you never answer:

curious2 says

Rew says

Gladly. Pence....

@Rew, how do you believe Pence would compare to Bush 43? On what evidence do you base that opinion? Do you consider Bush 43 a successful Presidency?

@Rew, I had intended that as a serious question. You haven't replied at all, while posting a dozen other comments in the three days since. I am honestly trying to understand why you would "gladly" welcome someone who seems by every measure worse than W. Did you support W, and his war in Iraq? Do you believe that worked out well?

54

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 1:11pm

Bush 43 was a completely failed presidency. I'll take Pence not because he is a change in foreign national policy. Very few candidates actually have enough knowledge to stand up to current Military leadership and set new courses. Further, Bush administration straight up manipulated the US population into a war which has perpetuated and grown terrorism, not defeated it.

I support Pence taking the reigns from Trump because he actually would follow more democratic norms. He has an absolute crap social agenda I hate as well.

In short, Pence would actually let America get some needed work and improvements done. Trump is just failure, division, and corruption. It' a low low bar, but the best I can hope for in under 4 years.

55

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 1:12pm

and we don't have that anyway.

It's a death by paper cuts and increments. It is happening.

56

curious2 2017 Jul 10, 1:17pm

Pence has a much worse record.

Trump....

has a long record of success in multiple fields where others have failed. He persevered through incredible opposition to win the Presidency. We don't know yet how he'll do.

It is happening.

No, TDS is happening. Most of the 'threats' against Jewish community centers were phoned in by a Jewish teen, and others by an anti-Trump communist, and a Jewish guy painted a swastika on his own house and then reported to police that his house had been vandalized. False flags, fake news, a 'mostly BS witch-hunt' on CNN and Maddow boosts ratings by stoking TDS, these things are happening; authoritarianism isn't.

The President might be a lightning rod, but Pence would be a disaster.

57

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 1:22pm

has a long record of success in multiple fields where others have failed.

He has a long track record of making people believe this. He is a showman. He is flash not substance. His success is phantom, bluster, and bully. He is not self made.

but Pence would be a disaster.

Debatable. He is raising funds now. He is unmarred by scandal, quiet, face in pictures but never smeared. He is in the exact right place to take things. Deftly maneuvered around the nose cone touch with humor. True politician that knows what he is doing.

How would he be a disaster? By what measures would he be worse than Trump?

58

curious2 2017 Jul 10, 1:34pm

He is a showman.

So was Reagan.

How would he be a disaster? By what measures would he be worse than Trump?

Pence has all of W's flaws but lacks W's intelligence and compassion. He could easily stumble into another stupid war. He lacks President Trump's intelligence and record of success. Pence lacks President Trump's sense of humor, and the sense of perspective that goes with it.

Pence is a politician, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. He's more of an idealogue put up by backers who were disappointed by his performance, and he wouldn't even have won a second term as governor. I do suggest reading the Boston Globe piece I linked above.

Nobody is self-made, though some pretend to be. "The trouble with self-made men is that they tend to worship their creator.â€ At every stage of Donald Trump's life, you can point to others who appeared to have at least his advantages, yet didn't succeed as he has.

59

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 1:35pm

President Pence day 1: restores Whitehouse briefings, Bannon/Miller/Trumps - gone, a simple message of, "America I know I wasn't directly chosen but I am here and willing to serve. We have a lot of serious work to do before us. I know many of you do not believe as the previous administration, and that many have differences with my beliefs as well. I vow as your incoming President to truly put America first by serving you, the people, and restoring a sense of bi-aprtisan work on the tough challenges that face us."

Nation goes crazy ... despite how true that message may be. Even the appearance of moving things back from where we are now is nothing but massive wins. The dems would fall all over themselves like love struck kittens.

60

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 1:38pm

you an point to others who appeared to have at least his advantages,

Who have I pointed to? Obama?
If a measure of success is being embroiled constantly in litigation, Trump wins big.

He could easily stumble into another stupid war.

Stumble into, yes. Like any other president. Need to ensure power? Doubtful. The best thing for a Trump presidency right now is war.

He lacks President Trump's intelligence

Wow. Examples?

61

curious2 2017 Jul 10, 1:38pm

The dems would fall all over themselves like love struck kittens.

and lose the midterms, because they've staked their whole campaign on TDS. They've been building up Pence, so they can't credibly turn around and campaign against him. He'd say he needs larger Republican majorities in the Congress, and win the midterms, Democrats "winning" again like Charlie Sheen.

Seriously, TDS seems to cause so much cognitive dissonance that it derails judgment entirely.

62

curious2 2017 Jul 10, 1:46pm

Who have I pointed to?

That was a typo - thanks for pointing it out - fixed now.

curious2 says

He lacks President Trump's intelligence

Wow. Examples?

Wow - you're asking for praise of President Trump? From Trump's Wharton degree to his record of success in real estate, entertainment, and now politics, he's a proven winner in countless battles where he seemed hopelessly outnumbered. Congratulations, you're "winning" like Charlie Sheen again, getting people to praise President Trump, where previously I had said only that we don't know yet how he'll do. I still reserve judgment as to how he'll do, time will tell, but he's obviously very smart.

In contrast, about Pence, seriously, read the Boston Globe piece I linked already.

63 joeyjojojunior 2017 Jul 10, 1:58pm

"They've been building up Pence"

Examples of Dems building up Pence?

"From Trump's Wharton degree to his record of success in real estate"

I find degrees can be bought, and I find Trump's real estate record to be dubious at best. He was definitely successful as an entertainer. However, I find success as an entertainer and intelligence to have a very low correlation

64

Rew 2017 Jul 10, 2:03pm

A BS in Econ from Wharton. That's it? That's our intelligence marker to date for Trump? Pretty underwhelming for a President in my opinion. There is nothing here that befits a world leader. He is causing more problems for himself weekly.

Trump has two things: a brand and a nationalist base. That's it.

65

Goran_K 2017 Jul 10, 2:32pm

OMG! We are all gonna die!!!!!!!

That only happens if you don't convert.

Usually it's just a lot of rape.

66

MisdemeanorRebel 2017 Jul 10, 2:51pm

Maybe Zuckerberg will heal America by reducing privacy and massively increasing immigration even more regardless of econ conditions when he runs with Kamala in 2020 hahahaha

67 joeyjojojunior 2017 Jul 10, 2:58pm

"See Rew's "day 1" fantasy above. The whole premise of the 'impeach' crowd rests on the false assumption that Pence would supposedly be better, otherwise it makes no sense recklessly replacing a President without thinking through the consequences."

I don't think one guy on Pat.net supports your statement that "Dems have been building up Pence". Even Rew says Pence sucks, but he just sucks less than Trump. Hardly building him up.

68 bob2356 2017 Jul 10, 2:59pm