patrick.net

FortWayne

If you are a Christian, you have faith in a book that begins with a talking serpent and donkey and a genocidal son murdering God, that has produced an intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religion.

Why on earth would you want to even associate yourself with such a vile creed?

-----------

That aside, ---- on your view of faith.

Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

The God of the OT says, “Come now, and let us reason together,” [Isaiah 1:18]

How can literalists reason on God when they must ignore reason and logic and discard them when turning into literalist?

Those who are literalists can only reply somewhat in the fashion that Martin Luther did.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

This attitude effectively kills all worthy communication that non-theists can have with theist. Faith closes the mind as it is pure idol worship.

Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths. We cannot show our faith based friends that they are wrong through their faith colored glasses. Their faith also plugs their ears.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Nice.

Do you try to bring others out of their delusional thinking and into reality?

My religion basically forces me to try to do so.

I argue against God and religion, but don't believe i have ever managed to bring delusional thinking into reality.
On the other hand, I am constantly being hit on by delusional thinkers to take me out of reality. Many have tried, all have failed. :)

Strategist

My purpose in life........Play my part in the chain of evolution.

What part are you playing in the evolution of ideas?

Regards
DL

Strategist

"but don't believe i have ever managed to bring delusional thinking into reality."

I used to think that as well but know differently now that I know a bit more about human nature. I have seen too many say my tribe or religion or political party, right or wrong.

When they say that, like so many Republicans did with Trump, not to get into politics here, they know that they are wrong as the hand holding their nose as they vote proves that people like you and I are making an impact, even if it is not quantifiable. Think of all the lurkers we are effecting.

Fight on brother. It is our duty to our fellow man because for evil to grow, all good people need do is nothing.

Regards
DL

P.S. You have answered my question in post 18.

Greatest I am says

What part are you playing in the evolution of ideas?

Supporting science, evolution, rational thinking and atheism. Criticizing religion, especially Islam.
Criticism precedes change.

Strategist

To post 20.

www.youtube.com/embed/yUwdlENVcYg

Regards
DL

You are trolling too hard, too obvious. Same guy I bet.

I'm so glad there is no pending danger that I will reach the age of reason.

anonymous

"believe in God and Jesus. Between all of you however each is claiming they have the only true way to achieve whatever and the others ways are inferior or lacking."

I do not believe in a supernatural God or Jesus. The Gnostic Christian Jesus I see in scriptures is not the miracle working half breed chimera God that God would have produced by bestiality, coveting another man's wife and cuckolding Joseph just before taking off and becoming a deadbeat dad. The Jesus I follow is a fully human esoteric ecumenist who suffered apotheosis just as I did.

If I did believe in Yahweh, I would condemn his sorry ass to hell where he belongs with all the other genocidal pricks. Pardon the language.

Please see post 5 for a partial view of what I believe.

I would never join Christianity or Islam. Both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

As to your, --- "each is claiming they have the only true way "

I speak of a way that worked for me. I do not and will never say that it is the only way as I doubt that very much.

Over all on your theme of division.

www.youtube.com/embed/MDbiqlhAirE

Regards
DL

For a religious position that embraces science, technology and the future
https://www.christiantranshumanism.org/users

tovarichpeter

Thanks for the link, but I have reached the age of reason and have put away childish things, like a supernatural God who is just playing us along his plan.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Over all on your theme of division.

www.youtube.com/embed/MDbiqlhAirE

Regards

DL

Very interesting guy. Love what he said. He seems to believe in God, but not in organized religion.

Greatest I am says

That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

Yeshua says: Woe unto them, the dogmatists—for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen. For neither does he eat, nor does he allow the oxen to eat. (

Strategist

"Very interesting guy. Love what he said. He seems to believe in God, but not in organized religion."

He is interesting to hear and I like that he, to me, speaks the way a Gnostic Christian would.

My kingdom for such a skill.

Regards
DL

Heraclitusstudent

"Yeshua says: Woe unto them, the dogmatists—for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen. For neither does he eat, nor does he allow the oxen to eat."

I use these ones as they are more direct in terms of what I want to say.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Lawyers here means scripture writers and temple officials.

Regards
DL

Yes. I rejected the whole concept ~30 years ago, upon being subjected to Sunday School

errc

Nice.

Does your moral sense push you to try to bring others out of their poor thinking and moral patterns?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

"Yeshua says: Woe unto them, the dogmatists—for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen. For neither does he eat, nor does he allow the oxen to eat."

I use these ones as they are more direct in terms of what I want to say.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Yeshua says: The dogmatists and the scriptualists have received the keys of recognition, but they have hidden them. They did not enter, nor did they permit those to enter who wished to. Yet you—become astute as serpents and innocent as doves.

Same quote, different layers of copy and translation.

Heraclitusstudent

"Same quote, different layers of copy and translation."

Indeed.

"the keys of recognition, but they have hidden them."

Sorry about the quoting. I cannot get the system to pick up your words.

Part of how they hid the key was to decimate Gnostic Christianity that pushed that part of scriptures over all others.

With religions shrinking in the West, I doubt that we Gnostic Christians will ever have our superior to Christianity and Islam ever recognized.

A damned shame as our ideology makes the mainstream religions look as sick as they are.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

I doubt that we Gnostic Christians will ever have our superior to Christianity and Islam ever recognized.

I'm not a gnostic Christian. Just pointing out that the rejection of dogmatism is itself a mantra of "spiritual leaders" like Jesus.
Atheism will work just good for that purpose.

Heraclitusstudent

Seems we both recognize Jesus as more anti-religion than pro-religion.

He said that praying should be done in private and I would love to ban all public religious displays.

Strange how both Christianity and Islam say they respect Jesus while ignoring the fundamentals of his teachings.

The word hypocrisy come to mind

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Strange how both Christianity and Islam say they respect Jesus while ignoring the fundamentals of his teachings.

All religions are a form of tribalism.
It has nothing to do with what Jesus was trying to teach, really.

Heraclitusstudent

I agree on both counts. If Jesus saw what has been done to his ideas, he would send all Christians to hell. Not that hell exists.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

If Jesus saw what has been done to his ideas, he would send all Christians to hell

Hackneyed cliche right out of central casting. I've heard one variation or another for 60 plus years first from my Christian Sunday school and training union teachers: "the main reason people aren't Christian is because of other Christians". Didn't believe it then and don't believe it now. The Soviet Union wasn't officially atheist because they objected to what Christians had done with the ideas of Jesus. They were atheist because they didn't recognize a higher power than the state and the same is true with today's atheists who are overwhelmingly on the statist side of the political spectrum. The Christians and the Jews run the benevolences, the hospitals, the soup kitchens. shelters, drug treatment facilities, Salvation Army, Jesus can see what has been done with His ideas.

P N Dr Lo R

Religions, for sure have bone many good social work.

That does not forgive the harm that they have done in the past and continue to do today.

Let me go to an O.P I am working on to see if we see the world and religions the same way.

=============
Yahweh. Obey like a slave. Allah. Submit like a slave. Do you see a difference?

I find it strange that all-powerful Gods have a need or want of slaves, but if slavery is all that Christians and Muslims aspire to after death, I am sure glad I am a Gnostic Christian and see Jesus as not being of the same ilk as Christian and Muslim slave aspirers. Jesus said he came to serve man but I guess that he is not like his father. Thank God for that. –;)

In the arena of cultural evolution, the secular and humanist West has decided that Jesus wins the God Wars. Christians have gone along with revering the nice (sort of) God, Jesus, instead of his poor satanic father.

If Muslims do not also go along with that archetypal prophet and savior Jesus, as being more authoritative than Muhammad, they will not survive and the religion will die.

This is inevitable as the world will not allow open religious slavery, --- which is what Muslim and Christian ideologies promote.

No?

Regards
DL

On Muslim slavery.www.youtube.com/embed/NUOSIhg86oc
On archetypal Jesus. https://clyp.it/lqeu3cku
=========

P N Dr Lo R

My bottom line to you is that both Christianity and Islam have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

ry.www.youtube.com/embed/NUOSIhg86oc

Welcome to the barbaric sharia laws.

Greatest I am says

Please do not try to tell me that Muslim slave women and girls do not need feminists to fight for their freedom.

Feminists in the US like Islam:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/women-wear-hijabs-donald-trump-inauguration-day-kathy-najimy-us-president-solidarity-muslim-sisters-a7534826.html
www.youtube.com/embed/a5Erby6U_d4

Heraclitusstudent

Sure there are a few Left wing loonies who cannot even utter Islam and jihad without crying the blues.

Ask any of them if they would like to live in a Muslim majority country or why some of the most vocal feminists are Muslim women who escaped their Muslim homes.

Your link is a blip from the 1 % while I represent the moral majority that recognizes a slave owning ideology.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

My bottom line to you is

Is that significant?

P N Dr Lo R

It is significant if true.

What is your verdict?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am says

Sure there are a few Left wing loonies who cannot even utter Islam and jihad without crying the blues.

I don't think they are a few loonies. They are the mainstream. Any attempt to denounce the immorality of the treatment of women by Islam will immediately result in you being labeled Islamophobic, a bigot, and probably a closet white nationalist.

This is the rule book of the establishment in the west.

Heraclitusstudent

That is changing quickly as more Western governments go to the right of the political spectrum.

Islam's victim card is being recognized for the fraud it is.

Regards
DL