patrick.net

Rin says

How much time do you spend in your car versus your bed? 1 hour vs 8 hours per day. Plus, what's so bad about a Corolla? Do you really need all the furnishings of a Lexus for a mere 1 hour of daily transportation? Are you that concerned about status?

WTF? It's a hotel. You're asleep all that time, so...

And there's nothing wrong with a Corolla, but what's wrong with buying a nicer car? Didn't he mention a BMW X5? $60,000 or so. That's not exactly making that much of a statement.

Bigsby says

didn't he mention a BMW X5? $60,000 or so. That's not exactly making that much of a statement.

An S&P500 tracker fixed annuity, with a $60K initial investment, using a 2% management fee structure, and since the downturn years are simply a 0% for that year, can grow to $110K, from 2001 to 2011. There are calculators online for this, if you don't believe me. That's a better way to use one's savings than in a show off vehicle.

Rin says

An S&P500 tracker fixed annuity, with a $60K initial investment, using a 2% management fee structure, and since the downturn years are simply a 0% for that year, can grow to $110K, from 2001 to 2011. There are calculators online for this, if you don't believe me. That's a better way to use one's savings than in a show off vehicle.

Oh, FFS. Yes, yes and if you'd bought Apple shares in 1997, blah-blah-blah. It sounds like he's saving more than enough for when he's old and grey and probably unable to do little more than droll as he's spoon fed at the nursing home. Maybe, just maybe, it's not such a bad thing to spend some of his own money on something he might quite like and at an age when he can enjoy it the most. After all, given all your claims about fucking expensive hookers in Canada, how much are you pissing away to get VD from someone who's shagged more people than your average Rolling Stone?

Bigsby says

if you'd bought Apple shares in 1997

Which shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

All cap gain tech stocks are high risk volatile equities. S&P500 tracker fixed annuities are insurance products. Do you understand the difference?

If you want to play equities, without an insurance aspect, read my post on dividends ...

"If you want to be a passive investor, but want some assurance of not completely losing your shirt, stick to the usual dividend suspects like tobacco, utilities, alcohol, food stuffs, and automatically re-invest those dividends (DRIPs). That pile will grow over time. And what happens during years like '08, is that since the overall market goes down, the actual dividend percentage spikes up. I've even seen up to 12-20% dividends at the bottom, because the prices were so hammered but those industries earn enough to not have to cut the same payout as prior quarters. Basically during those troughs, you'll be buying up 2-3x the number of shares at the bottom. When the market re-coops, you're now own much more of those businesses than before. Nobody goes broke, betting on ppl's smoking addiction."

Sorry, but I give solid advice, not BS on buying luxury cars.

Rin says

Which shows that you don't know what you're talking about.

All cap gain tech stocks are high risk volatile equities. S&P500 tracker fixed annuities are insurance products. Do you understand the difference?

Don't be stupid. I was making a flippant comment about one stock pick. What difference does investing in the stock market over X period of time make to the decision of someone who claims to have paid off $500,000 on his house in 5 years and to have $400,00 in cash lying around? Clearly he needs the advice of an 'expert' on Patnet. This isn't a discussion of the best approach to his retirement plans, merely a comment about WTF is wrong with such a person buying a reasonably nice, somewhat above mid-range car. Clearly he can afford it. But oh, no, according to someone who claims to piss away his money on expensive Canadian hookers, it's a waste of money. Go figure.

Bigsby says

who claims to piss away his money on expensive Canadian hookers

I earn a lot more than I piss away (since I'm happy with a mere Accord) and since I don't have a leech Mrs in my life, my eggsnest is growing, remember the dividends. Many of my married friends have financial issues, not me.

Bigsby says

What difference does investing in the stock market over X period of time

You obviously don't know what an annuity product is. It's sold by an insurance company, so that when the market goes down (yes, during years like 2000-02, 2007-09, etc), your principal is preserved. Yes, they have a management fee during the flush years, so you don't get the max out of a bull run, but at least your capital is preserved. Does this make sense to you?

Rin says

I earn a lot more than I piss away (since I'm happy with a mere Camry) and since I don't have a leech Mrs in my life, my eggsnest is growing, remember the dividends. Many of my married friends have financial issues, not me.

And he and his wife don't? His wife has a high paying salary. Clearly she's a real leech compared to your claimed hookers.

Rin says

You obviously don't know what an annuity product is. It's sold by an insurance company, so that when the market goes down (yes, during years like 2000-02, 2007-09, etc), your principal is preserved. Yes, they have a management fee during the flush years, so you don't get the max out of a bull run, but at least your capital is preserved. Does this make sense to you?

Good grief. Once again, what has all that got to do with him buying a car he wants?

FYI, Camry is my next car. I currently drive an Accord.

Bigsby says

Good grief. Once again, what has all that got to do with him buying a car he wants?

He can do whatever he wants, who's stopping him. On the other hand, there's no UTILITARIAN purpose in a $60K vehicle when a $20K vehicle does exactly the same thing minus the status symbol.

And yes, someday ... when he's downsized, rightsized or facing age discrimination (about to get kicked out of his field), that annuity which grew from $40K to $70K during the decade (which is the full price for two 2 yr old Corollas), may come in handy. That's called saving for a rainy day.

Bigsby says

real leech compared to your claimed hookers.

I expense the hotel rooms and then, those gals are out of my life after a short while, no strings period. Yes, it's economical, versus playing "Keeping Up With the Jones", buying the Mrs jewelery, taking her out all of the time to nice restaurants, moving to the *right* school district, etc.

Rin says

FYI, Camry is my next car. I currently drive an Accord.

That wasn't information that I had any interest in knowing strangely enough.

Rin says

On the other hand, there's no UTILITARIAN purpose in a $60K vehicle when a $20K vehicle does exactly the same thing minus the status symbol.

Remarkable. The capital letters make all the difference. You could say the exact same thing for just about anything people spend their money on. You know rather like how you could get yourself a steady girlfriend rather than paying for a hooker in a foreign country.... You never did say how much those trips cost...
And this isn't an either or issue, is it? A bloke who paid off $500k of his mortgage in 5 years and saved $400k in the process isn't exactly living hand to mouth. And last I checked, buying a mid-range BMW isn't really that much of a status symbol. You should know - don't you claim to be working in investment banking or some such? Would that count as a status symbol amongst your colleagues?

Rin says

I expense the hotel rooms and then, those gals are out of my life after a short while, no strings period. Yes, it's economical, versus playing "Keeping Up With the Jones", buying the Mrs jewelery, taking her out all of the time to nice restaurants, moving to the *right* school district, etc.

Or, you know, you could find yourself an educated and interesting woman to go out with who makes a similar salary to you...

And you still seem reticent to say how much you spend on these hookers...

Rin says

FYI, Camry is my next car. I currently drive an Accord.

I've known wealthy folks who drive corollas or accords for the same reason-image. They are very wealthy and could afford whatever car they want but they drive those to present a frugal, one of the guys image. Nevermind that they drink a bottle of wine that costs more than the average Joe's daily wages. Or own multiple houses in Hawaii.

I really don't understand your disdain for someone buying a nice car. At what point can one enjoy the fruits of their labor?

Bigsby says

You should know - don't you claim to be working in investment banking or some such? Would that count as a status symbol amongst your colleagues?

That's the point, I don't care about those douchebags.

I was once a STEM person and that's what I'm proud about. Working with idiot portfolio managers and tax consultants is not my calling, it's simply what I do, to retire from corporate America. And thus, I simply live humbly, avoid relationships, and bone hoes occasionally. And Quebec is a 5 hour drive from MA, not really another country, more like another state but French speaking.

Bigsby says

And you still seem reticent to say how much you spend on these hookers...

As an average, though I'd splurged once in a while, every 3 weeks, some $500, over the year about $8.5K.

tatupu70 says

I really don't understand your disdain for someone buying a nice car. At what point can one enjoy the fruits of their labor?

The thing is that a car is not an *experience*. I mean it's not like he's a street racer or something. If so, then yes, it's a part of a subculture of drivers.

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor. A vehicle is just a mode of transportation.

Rin says

As an average, though I'd splurged once in a while, every 3 weeks, some $500, over the year about $8.5K.

You spend $8.5k a year (not counting all the other inevitable expenses, and the question mark about how you actually manage to claim your trips abroad to fuck hookers as a business expense) to have sex 17 times a year. Ha, ha, ha. You clearly are the person to advise someone on how best to spend their money.

Rin says

I was once a STEM person and that's what I'm proud about. Working with idiot portfolio managers and tax consultants is not my calling, it's simply what I do, to retire from corporate America. And thus, I simply live humbly, avoid relationships, and bone hoes occasionally. And Quebec is a 5 hour drive from MA, not really another country, more like another state but French speaking.

Ah, yes, I remember you saying that before. You clearly are an atypical investment banker if you think a BMW X5 is a status symbol. Or you aren't an investment banker.

Rin says

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor.

Really? I thought it was going to Canada to fuck hookers.

Call it Crazy says

You

Evidently creativity is still a struggle for many people.

Your comment just demonstrated my point.

Easy, we have clients in Ontario/Quebec so as long as I make one call or one meeting, that hotel room is expensed, BFD. And really, how much does it cost to get a meal in Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal? It's the same as my hometown.

And I'm not a typical banker because many of them work for the bulge bracket, I work for a New England based hedge fund which sells 'alpha', which is an actively traded dealbook to portfolio managers, etc, who can add it to their basket of products for institutional/corporate and individual investors. Since many of us are New Englanders, we stress our down-to-earthness and fiscal responsibly over *those* who work for the Street. I've taken it further than others, because I refuse to go for the Acura/Lexus/Infinity or Porsche/Ferrari thing like others who'd been getting the bonuses. They all think it's cute and quaint behavior, like I'm the small town boy in the world of trading, but so what. This isn't what I wanted to do with my life.

Bigsby says

Rin says

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor.

Really? I thought it was going to Canada to fuck hookers.

That's between me and Strategist. This is my basic financial advice for those outside of the club. And yes, you're not invited.

Rin says

And really, how much does it cost to get a meal in Toronto, Ottawa, or Montreal?

I don't know, you tell me. Presumably, you go to the local 7-11 and pick up a few sandwiches. After all, you wouldn't want to frivolously waste money on restaurants. And anyway, shouldn't you be adding those to your expense account as well?

Rin says

That's between me and Strategist. This is my basic financial advice for those outside of the club. And yes, you're not invited.

Wow, a club of two. You and Strategist. Thank fuck I'm not invited.

Rin says

For the average non-racer, wouldn't it be better to spend one's money on taking a class, travel, and/or doing something of interest. For me, that's the "fruit" of one's labor. A vehicle is just a mode of transportation.

I get that you would prefer to spend your $$ on other activities. I don't get your need to push your values on someone else. You enjoy traveling. Maybe he enjoys taking a drive on the coast in a nice car. Doesn't mean you're right.

Bigsby says

And anyway, shouldn't you be adding those to your expense account as well?

I use the per diem because if I'm not actively "courting a client", I can't make that entertainment costs. Still, no one cares. As far as the firm is concerned, lodging and per diem are not a big deal, as it's expected that we'll usually be on the road, meeting up with customers.

Bigsby says

After all, you wouldn't want to frivolously waste money on restaurants

A restaurant is an experience and that's why I like 'em. When they cut the Prime Rib slice or when they talk about their specials and secret ingredients, that adds a spice to one's life. This is something you can't get at a Subway or a 7-11.

Which once again, shows me that you don't understand the difference between spending an extra $40K on a higher end car versus a night out at a Prime Rib steer house. That car will get old quickly and depreciate. The experience of driving a BMW will wane in a very short time.

That slice of Prime Rib (if it's good), will give you an experience and a memory that you'll want to experience again in the future. So far, I've had one every month and it's always been good. This is something that I enjoy.

Bigsby says

Thank fuck I'm not invited.

Since you're not my friend, you're welcome.

tatupu70 says

I get that you would prefer to spend your $$ on other activities. I don't get your need to push your values on someone else. You enjoy traveling. Maybe he enjoys taking a drive on the coast in a nice car. Doesn't mean you're right.

I work in finance and a lot of fellas spend their money on cars, so perhaps, this is a part of my disdain for that line of work.

Rin says

A restaurant is an experience and that's why I like 'em. When they cut the Prime Rib slice or when they talk about their specials and secret ingredients, that adds a spice to one's life. This is something you can't get at a Subway or a 7-11.

Which once again, shows me that you don't understand the difference between spending an extra $40K on a higher end car versus a night out at a Prime Rib steer house. That car will get old quickly and depreciate. The experience of driving a BMW will wane in a very short time.

You're comedy gold. You can go to a fine dining restaurant and blow through the better part of $1000 without much effort as a couple. Many people with money get great enjoyment from that, but that $1000 lasts for a few hours until the next visit to the toilet, so don't talk to me about how quickly the value of things depreciate. People can spend tens of thousands a year on good restaurants. Good for them if they can afford it and if that's what they enjoy (as I do). That quite clearly has absolutely zero to do with something holding value. It's about what someone wants to spend their money on. You spend $8.5k+ a year on hookers and are waffling on about someone spending $20-30k more than you would on a car. What sense does that make?

Alpo,

What to do depends on personality. I would choose 4. Reduce the housing loan as much as possible. Mortgage rate is higher than saving interest, so you're losing money for nothing. If still got money left, buy a replacement Honda Civic... new car has higher mileage, more comfortable and lower maintenance.

Bigsby says

You're comedy gold. You can go to a fine dining restaurant and blow through the better part of $1000 without much effort as a couple. Many people with money get great enjoyment from that, but that $1000 lasts for a few hours until the next visit to the toilet, so don't talk to me about how quickly the value of things depreciate. People can spend tens of thousands a year on good restaurants. Good for them if they can afford it and if that's what they enjoy (as I do). That quite clearly has absolutely zero to do with something holding value. It's about what someone wants to spend their money on. You spend $8.5k+ a year on hookers and are waffling on about someone spending $20-30k more than you would on a car. What sense does that make?

What are you talking about? I go to a steak house with a friend, monthly, spending $30-40 which includes the meal and one drink. And yes, there's conversation, interacting with ppl (this includes the staff), and experiencing the foods. It's obvious that you don't know what life is about if you can't see the difference between that and fawning over a vehicle.

And when I get my paycheck, much of it goes into dividend stocks, as my mortgage is paid off. When I get my bonus, I park a big chunk of it, into an annuity, along with the DRIPs. So what happens is that that $8.5K is completely eclipsed by what I get, simply holding onto those shares and letting them automatically reinvest every quarter. So right now, I'm in full accrual mode. My eggsnest is growing, despite the cost of hoes.

Rin says

What are you talking about? I go to a steak house with a friend, monthly, spending $30-40 which includes the meal and one drink. And yes, there's conversation, interacting with ppl (this includes the staff), and experiencing the foods. It's obvious that you don't know what life is about if you can't see the difference between that and fawning over a vehicle.

Oh, give me strength. I'm making a point about what people like spending their money on. People like different things. Look at you. You claim to spend the better part of 10K a year on whores yet think you are in a position to lecture people about how they should spend their money.

Rin says

And when I get my paycheck, much of it goes into dividend stocks, as my mortgage is paid off. When I get my bonus, I park a big chunk of it, into an annuity, along with the DRIPs. So what happens is that that $8.5K is completely eclipsed by what I get, simply holding onto those shares and letting them automatically reinvest every quarter. So right now, I'm in full accrual mode. My eggsnest is growing, despite the cost of hoes.

Wow, amazing. And the original poster has been paying down his mortgage to the tune of $100k a year, and saving $400k in a cash (and who knows what else on top of that). They seem to be doing perfectly all right. If he wants to spend 30k more on a car than you would, then so what? You're spending $30k more on hookers over 3 years than he is...

Call it Crazy says

i continue to suck you guys

Eeeew....

Obviously there are people who like to gamble with their homes and buy pointless status symbols that depreciate instantly. That's why God invented Orange County.

Bigsby says

You're spending $30k more on hookers over 3 years than he is...

Here's my financial spiel ... you don't pay for hoes for 1 to 3 years up front. Ok, this isn't some season ticket pass to see the Patriots.

For a car, you either pay the whole thing upfront, or get a monthly payment program which is a loan.

Ok, now here's how a DRIP (dividend reinvestment) works. If you have $40K in tobacco, each quarter you get a piece of those earnings. If it's 4% per year you get some cash, like $400, every quarter. That $400 buys let's say another 10 shares. Your brokerage account can automate this for you. At year's end, with the compounding shares, that's $41.6K. In three years, $45K. In ten years, ~$60K and this assumes a completely sideways market, which is seldom the case. And it assumes no other additional funds.

Now, I have a lot more than $40K parked away, so splurging once in a while, is no big deal.

For this person, or someone like him, after paying $60K ... for one, the car will depreciate but at the same time, he'll still have to pay for maintenance, insurance, etc. In a very short time, the joyride thing (unless he's a racer) will wane whereas so far, I like meeting up with my friend for steak, for many years. The experience is more valuable than ownership.

And yes, boning a hottie, knowing that I don't need to buy her a ring or take her to Aruba, to gain her attention, is also of value. It makes my sex life very compartmentalized. It's the experience.

And that's the big difference. There's no real intrinsic value in that vehicle aside from the show off/status thing, which gets old.

Call it Crazy says

escape from the realities of his real life

Dude, you just need some spending money to do hoes. But yes, working in finance is a lame career though it puts food on the table.

Ceffer says

buy pointless status symbols that depreciate instantly

That's a big part of my point.

Rin says

Here's my financial spiel ... you don't pay for hoes for 1 to 3 years up front. Ok, this isn't some season ticket pass to see the Patriots.

For a car, you either pay the whole thing upfront, or get a monthly payment program which is a loan.

Ok, now here's how a DRIP (dividend reinvestment) works. If you have $40K in tobacco, each quarter you get a piece of those earnings. If it's 4% per year you get some cash, like $400, every quarter. That $400 buys let's say another 10 shares. Your brokerage account can automate this for you. At year's end, with the compounding shares, that's $41.6K. In three years, $45K. In ten years, ~$60K and this assumes a completely sideways market, which is seldom the case.

Now, I have a lot more than $40K parked away, so splurging once in a while, is no big deal.

He pays $55k for his car. You pay $25k. The difference is 30K. He keeps the car for say 6 years. During those 6 years, you spend nearly $60k on hookers. You can make all the comments about investments you like, but it's utterly irrelevant. If he buys the car, he's simply making a different choice about how to spend his money than you are. You aren't making more money over that period than he is. He's spending 30k more upfront on a car than you would. You are spending $60k more on hookers over the potential 6 year period that he keeps the car. How does that make your expenditure better than his? At the end of that 6 years, he's got a car to sell. You've just got medical bills to pay for your STDs.

Actually, my talk about investments is significant because for one, the quarterly cost of seeing hoes versus my portfolio accrual is shrinking. Actually, it's minimal right now. When this job is over, I won't have to work a day of my life again and can see hoes regularly and even buy a Porsche, if I really wanted.

The difference is that I know the difference between a status symbol and an experience. The escort is a beautiful woman in her 20s. Normally, I would have to spend much more money, taking such a gal out to high end places, just to keep her around. Instead, I've compartmentalized the entire experience into a short romp, on a road trip up north. Many guys in finance, date high maintenance women. That's not for me. I want to shag and get back to my routine.

This guy is not in my position because someday, he may run out of work. When that occurs, that annuity, which could help hold him over till social security, may come in handy. Plus, my car will retain more of its used value and so, that $25K gap is really closer to $15K, since I'd be selling the vehicle myself. Plus, he could buy a Civic from Hertz w/ added warranty for $14K and park those additional monies for a rainy day.

Rin says

The escort is a beautiful woman in her 20s. Normally, I would have to spend much more money, taking such a gal out to high end places, just to keep her around. Instead, I've compartmentalized the entire experience into a short romp, on a road trip up north. Many guys in finance, date high maintenance women. That's not for me. I want to shag and get back to my routine.

Also, I don't like pretending to be in love. That stuff ended 4 years ago, with a Canadian whack job girlfriend.

Live in Caligulan splendor. Buy M134's, lots of ammo, and yams.

Rin says

This guy is not in my position because someday, he may run out of work. When that occurs, that annuity, which could help hold him over till social security, may come in handy. Plus, my car will retain more of its used value and so, that $25K gap is really closer to $15K, since I'd be selling the vehicle myself. Plus, he could buy a Civic from Hertz w/ added warranty for $14K and park those additional monies for a rainy day.

You really are living in your own little dream world.