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Could someone 'unmoderate' me? I don't think I've made any unsuitable comments....
"I'm gonna' have my kicks before the whole sh-thouse goes up in flames."
--Jim Morrisson
I'm not sure if Morrison was a Boomer, but those sure are Baby Boomer sentiments If I've ever seen 'em.
You’re out of moderation speedingpullet.
Speeding Mullet would be a great name for an 80's cover band...
Prat! Good to “see†you, even for a brief visit.
Thank you. Good to see the old crew still banging the drum. Now that we are seeing YoY declines (Can I get a sac-TOWN in the house?) I feel like there is something new to talk about. Watching this market turn got pretty boring over the last year (especially since I had been ranting on the topic since 2003.)
Wrong for two and a half long years (nearly 10% of my life!), but now, *now* revenge is mine!
Ahem. My wife is looking at me funny again. Perhaps delurking wasn't such a good idea...
Cheers,
prat
Just us die hards who can’t seem to let go…
I prefer to think of y'all as the marines: first ones in, last ones out.
BTW, I was up in sac the past two weekends. I'm thinking that soon it will be cheaper for the newspaper to list the homes *not* for sale.
Cheers,
prat
SQT,
My point exactly! The roughly 9 weeks between grad. and enlistment were b/c of the Navy's schedule (not mine) but dad still insisted I get a job for the summer if I was going to live in his house!
I hear/continue to hear "sweet spot" boomers fondly reminisce about lengthy and unending periods in their lives where they were beholden to no one. I've yet to find it.
I don't know about that, goober.
I know its wierd, but I actually enjoy being the age I am.
OK, so not having the body of a goddess anymore kind of sucks, but I'm still healthy and reasonably fit. All those years of physical labour (I didn't have a 'sit down' job until after 30) means that I'm stronger and tougher than many my age and younger.
While I may not be perky and pretty by today's standards - i'm wiser and more content with my life. As much as I enjoyed my youth, I'm excited about what's coming up, not what's behind me.
Call me old fashioned. I'm glad I don't have to do it all again.
Robert C,
LOL! You know, I think SQT kind of nailed it when she said that *most* stereotypes start with a foundation of truth. It really grinds me when I see boomers that go out of their way to keep those stereotypes alive! What kind of sick person goes out of their way to find their grungiest tie-dyed shirt and put their hair in a pony tail (while driving a classic muscle car) just to "live up" to the hype? I thought the 60's were about "individualism".
Cote is right, in his usual obfuscating way. Each generation has it's bad apples (obvious statement, I know). The terms "Boomer" and "Gen-X" have now pretty much become epithets, and they don't really reflect the majority of Americans born during those years. The Boomer issue is just accentuated by the sheer mass number of people that fit the age group.
SFWoman Says:
I read the previous thread, where the man (probably troll) said his son had died of SIDS at 5. I have never heard of a non-infant dying of SIDS, but, if the guy is telling the truth, it is possible his son just died in his sleep, and a doctor told him crib death, which years ago was the equivalent of ‘who knows?’.
I had a guy in my high school die in his sleep for no reason. They did a full toxicology screen (he didn’t do drugs anyway), looked for stroke, found nothing. He just died.
In that age group, cardiac arrhythmia is the most likely etiology. May be inherited, like Long QT syndrome. I'd suggest getting the rest of the family screened.
(Not medical advice).
Randy H
2006 Aug 17, 2:19am
I was hesitant to start this thread, for the reasons I stated. Of course generational distinctions are mostly arbitrary.
But I do think the "Boomer" notion is one that is really a symbol for a major turning point in the cultures of Western anglo economies. Notice how much disagreement there is about where Boomers end and Xers start, but how much unanimity there is about when it started.
In my mind the "Boomer" label really describes a curve that hit its maxima right after the great war, and has been slowly tailing off ever since. The reason later "generations" get pissed off is that they are in an increasingly smaller part of a very long tail.
Business Week magazine has an article in its current edition--not yet on the website, apparenty--which looks at the career challenges faced by "Gen X." The gist of the article is that the sheer number of boomers means that most Xers work for boomer bosses and find it hard to move up in their careers. The same "crowding out" phenomenon can be observed in the housing market.
Although Gen X and Y will not likely inherit anything from their profligate parents, they may be able to buy a cheap house from one of those savings-short boomers with a 10 year useful working life and a 30 year "trade-up" mortgage a few years from now....
Unless, of course, boomers find one more way to rig the system to favor themselves before the crunch really starts to hurt. I have my doubts that they will be able to pull this off, though. There are 77M of them, compared to 300M Americans in total. By the time the boomers are all in their 60s and 70s (or dead), they will make up much less than half of the voting population. The rest will be disaffected youth.
Randy H
2006 Aug 17, 2:45am
Glen,
There was an article some months back in the FT Weekend about the growing vacuum of upper management in corporate America. The conclusions were that many Xers did not move up, as you said, because of middle/upper management crowding. Now, as boomers retire, they are vacating not just executive and upper mgt positions, but most middle mgt positions. But there is a broad perception that Xers are not properly credentialed/experienced/corp-culture-indoctrinated to take those roles.
The solution being implemented by many corps is to keep 'boomers' around longer, often as consultants on retainer, and primary to train Yers to fasttrack into management.
I think the article was called something like "The Lost Generation of Corp Mgt".
MA,
A few posts back *praetorian* felt it might be easier for the newspapers in Sacramento to simply list the homes that are *not* for sale!
Is this quite come to fruition in Bend just yet?
I do believe that that a great many sellers fully realize their goose is cooked and are absolutely trying to get out while they still have some level of profitability. Funny thing is (unless you CAN sell it by yourself) you may ALREADY be at 2004 if not 2003 prices! Since there's no way you can sell for what you paid in '05, then factor in a 6% comm. and a Hummer and Hello 2003! And it's not even Labor Day (when things trad. quite down). This could be my best Labor Day since the 90's! In fact barring some kind of......... nevermind. BEST Labor Day since 1999!
LILLL,
One of the main differences is that YOU'RE HERE! Boomers HAVE to believe in the bubble (you don't).
I was at a client mtg. yesterday with the CPA. He owns multiple smaller bus. so his taxes and inv. are complicated. I wish you could have been there when he told this graying account boomer gal RE had peaked! She turned and looked at me like she was mother and I just told the little neighbor boy where babies "really come from"! (Anyone remeber THAT look?). Anyway turns out she's quite the bubble believer herself. Multiple rentals here in OR as well as several in TX.
This is absolutely what she DOESN'T need to hear right now. This lead to the meetings swift and notably quieter conclusion.
MA!
Woo-hoo! I'm gonna party like it's 1999! (Labor Day 1999 that is)!
6 out of 16 are "lock boxed"? Maybe if they put in a brazilian cherry hardwood floor entry that would do the trick! Maybe it's a good time to be buying instead of selling? At some point? At some point? At some point your neighbor has to put the crack pipe down and get some fresh air!
I could be a land baron there!! Buy the whole block....well maybe not.
Wow. Leave it to work to load me up right when we have one of the best threads posted in a long time --and on one of my favorite subjects no less.
Damn work interfering with my blogging! Oh well... it does pay for my sad pathetic rental.
Prat, welcome back! Please stay a while --never mind what the wife thingks.
X - Count me in for whatever day you choose for SoCal Blog Part II.
It was so parental I had a hard time not laughing!
Where do you come off spreading this kind of irresponsible.......... gossip! How dare you infect our mutual client's mind with the the the......... truth?
These flippers haven't just already spent the money (they've already scripted their exodus from the work force)! A few more aquisitions or a few more flips and they'd be made in the shade! But Noooooooo! It's people like YOU that are going to ruin it for the rest of us with your negative attitude!
(Never mind that shortly it will be THEM creating the biggest inventory since the creation of man)!
I know not everyone here is religious, but call it divine retribution, karma, whatever you want – I swear we are seeing the hand of God smite the Boomers and take all their wealth away just a year or two before the first ones retire.
He’s giving the later Boomers, who aren’t nearly as bad as the first wave, a chance to repent and be saved by giving them a glimpse into the Abyss. They have several years before their own retirement and still have time to prepare -- if they heed this divine warning.
As for the enslaved Gen-X’ers, we are at last being led out of Egypt. The red sea is parting! I'm not saying that we Gen-X'ers are the Chosen People -- we're sinners too -- but at least we are being delivered from bondage!
I have never beleived that the Woodstock generation would be able to skate forever. The day of reckoning is at hand!
That will be the flippers lament. They were just ONE flip away from being independently wealthy. If it wasn't for the DAMN Fed! If it wasn't for all those "other" flippers. If it wasn't for the damn MSM puttin' the fear of God into these sheople!
They finally ran out of places where their "dollar is worth more".
Some time back we did a thread on how far do you have to go to escape the bubble's grasp and concluded that it would be some where in Borneo?
Joe Schmoe,
I sure hope so! I preach it every damn day. I see so many people that have given up on the notion of a comfortable retirement b/c they only had ONE house during the Great Real Estate Revolution! I'm like dude, BE GLAD you only had ONE, better yet none!
Younger gens. will hopefully learn from this incredible folly. Every time I see yet another desperate RE listing I think, "there but for the grace of God go I". Like I say, this is going to be my best Labor Day since 1999! Wish I could be there with you guys but I'll be in LV mid-Sept.
DinOR, LILLL, Robert Cote, Mort, SpeedingPullet (& any other long-time contributors of value),
You have my vote to officially lower the floor for Generation-X "cuspers" to 1959. Congratulations! You may now throw out any tie-dyed clothing articles, Stones/Beatles/Dead LPs, "Che" T-shirts and/or banners, sell that psychedelic-painted VW bus (now sitting on blocks) and join us in our universal struggle to combat Boomer Smugdom and inter-generational economic rape! (Any remaining weed should be brought to Surfer-X's blog party and, uh... "disposed of".)
Welcome home, my brothers and sisters!
HARM,
Hey thanks! Like LILLL I never "felt" or thought like one anyway.
Peter P
2006 Aug 17, 4:39am
You have my vote to officially lower the floor for Generation-X “cuspers†to 1959.
Why not 1958 then? I believe Pluto left Leo after 1958.
I also propose to lower the floor of Boomer cuspers to 1939.
I also propose to lower the floor of Boomer cuspers to 1939.
I dunno about that. That would include many Silent Gens as well as all Boomers. Didn't Randy point out (by his parents' personal example) that your average Silent Gen is even worse than your average Boomer?
I will allow a "newsfreak exception" for those rare, enlightened older Boomers, though.
Peter P
2006 Aug 17, 4:49am
I dunno about that. That would include many Silent Gens as well as all Boomers. Didn’t Randy point out (by his parents’ personal example) that your average Silent Gen is even worse than your average Boomer?
I think they belong to the same generation because they are exposed to the same generational "heavenly" influence.
by the way, instead of you nonboomers freely signing your lives away to the military to fight in Iraq and get your gubment handouts so you can get a free edumacation and learn how to write code for violent worthless video games and purchase 800k condos why not take to the streets like those greedy boomers did.
Ahh... pearls of wisdom from the very cream of Boomerhood. Where is T. Howell III when we need him?
It really bothers me to say this, but I agree that the generation Y has it even rougher. I know that law school tuition has almost doubled since I got out 10 years ago. Starting salaries certainly haven't doubled.
It also seems to be much harder for the young lawyers to get jobs these days. It was unbelievably hard when I graduated -- I had to temp for $12/hr for a while -- but today, it's even harder.
The Boomerization of the workplace is a fascinating phenomenon. I know that my old law firm had like 2 lawyers in their 60's and 70's, 10 in their 40's and 50's, 2 in their 30's, and 1 in her 20's. The Boomer/X-er ratio was something like 3-1. And the firm I worked for before that was the same way, I was 14 (!) years younger than the next-oldest lawyer. And when I left, they hired a guy 7 years older than me as a replacement!
The really interesting trend is that the concentration of Boomers in the workplace seems to be INCREASING.
These days, it seems like they won't let you past the metal detector in the courthouse unless you have a sufficient amount of grey hair. When I was 25, I was always the youngest person in court. That made sense, though, I was fresh out of school. But today, at 35, I'm usually still the youngest! It's geriatric city in there. It wasn't always like this. Successful lawyers are often older, because it is a profession which requires experience. Also, people generally don't want to hire an acne-faced kid to handle their serious legal problem.
But still, you used to see young lawyers at the courthouse. Today you don't, not really. If you walk down the hallway of the Superior Court of LA County or the Federal District Court, the average age of the 100 or so lawyers sitting around in the hallway waiting for court to go into session has got to be 50 or 52. Of the 100 lawyers, probably only 5 are in their 20's and 30's. It wasn't like this before. 10 years ago, probably 25% of the lawyers would be in their 20's and 30's. They'd be handling the troutine stuff, but they would be there in court. And you used to at least OCCASIONALLY see young lawyers argue important motions and appeals -- and sometimes even try cases -- when I was starting out. It was unusual, but it happened. Today you never see it. The funny thing is that when a 30-something lawyer does go to court, the judges always remember you. You stand out due to your age.
Part of this is probably unique to the legal profession, which has gotten a lot more crowded in the last 10 years. But there is no doubt in my mind that some of it is due to the Boomerization of the workplace.
Peter P
2006 Aug 17, 4:55am
These days, it seems like they won’t let you past the metal detector in the courthouse unless you have a sufficient amount of grey hair.
I have more white hair than many boomers.
SFWoman Says:
August 17th, 2006 at 11:49 am
A lot of the people I saw caught up in the frenzy of buying astoundingly overpriced, tackily remodelled houses were in their early and mid thirties. My friends who ‘had to buy now or would never get in’ were mostly under 40. The flippers I saw were probably about my age. Aren’t they as much to blame for this bubble as some strung out hippy living in his shack in Santa Cruz?
This bubble was based on bad lending, consumerist psychology and herd mentality. I’m not buying that it was all boomers!
SFWoman,
I agree that it's not just Boomers who have participated in the Bubble --either through sheer ignorance and fear of being "priced out forever", or greed. However, let's remind ourselves what started the ball rolling in the first place: http://patrick.net/wp/?p=198
Which generation was the dominant one in power when the government first instituted easy-money Fed policies, vastly expanded the GSEs, passed laws rewarding RE speculation (cap gains exemption, 1031, etc.) and gave us NIMBY/SMUG/UBL/Prop.13 laws?
LILLL,
*UNBOOMERS*?
Well let me firstly say that I feel like such a weight has finally been taken off of my shoulders I'm not all that concerned which (if any) group claims me at this point!
What this means is that we are finally out from under the shadow of older brothers and sisters. You remember? The ones that were going to change the world by ignoring basic hygiene? The ones that weren't going to be told what to think but had no qualms whatsoever about telling US what to think!
I've never attended a "demonstration" or protested anything in my life. I never cared for "experimenting" with drugs or free love. Whatever "free love" means/meant!
moderate infidel,
Fair enough. If you have an open mind, are awake and tuned in to what's going around you and you care about what's being done to future generations more than "how much my condo made last year", then you are not a stereotypical Boomer.
*UNBOOMERS*
LILLL --very nice. This one should be added to the Housing Bubble Glossary, along with astrid's "Prodigal Parents".
SP,
As far as I can figure "Brazilian Cherry" is right up there with the "Corinthian Leather" Ricardo Montalban spoke of in the Chrysler commercials of the 1980's? This of course pre-dates pergraniteel.
That's a good question though! I don't ever recall having tasted cherries that were imported from Brazil.
@moderate infidel,
Surfer-X has a term for those (young Gen-Y/X who emulate the awful habits/values of their Boomer parents): Spawn of Satan.
Sounds a little unweildy at first, but then it grows on you.
And what about Bamboo flooring that's starting to crop up in the realtors blurbs? What's teh deal with that - is it ultra better than wood flooring, or just cheaper to buy?
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I've always maintained that Gen-X, Gen-Y/Millenials and the infamous Boomers have more in common with one another than sets them apart. The true big divide is between the Silent Generation and the Boomers. In fact, Silents are so silent that most think themselves part of the WWII/GI/Greatest generation (even though they were in grade school during the war). It was after WWII that everything changed, after all.
So why is it that Boomers consistently piss everyone else off? Is it their willing self-identification with one another, while latter generations are more loosely bound? Is it their loud, self-proclaimed spokesmen who are unaware of their own arrogant hypocrisy? Or is it that guy who with dead certainty on Monday proclaimed to me that "no good music has been written since 1969..."
It surely couldn't be that it was you who stopped listening, thinking or caring. It has to be that everything that came after your summer of love wasn't worthy of your attention.
...
Apologies to all thinking people of every generation who claim responsibility for their own individuality. But let's have at it...
Randy H