patrick.net

"There's no place like home" Click Click
"There's no place like home" Click Click
"There's no place like home" Click Click

Shit! I'm still in Kansas!

The core problem was the "affordability" loan products, innovations of the past decade that are outright banned now, or would be if the Merkley-Levin provisions are still part of the banking bill.

1) No-doc

2) Qualifying borrowers on teaser rates

3) Negative-Am / Interest-Only / Balloons

For how these "affordability" products were used, we can go to the web:

http://www.azcentral.com/abgnews/articles/0317rates17.html

"At IndyMac Bancorp, 30 percent of mortgage customers are opting for the company's Pay-Option ARM, which carries a starting rate of 1 percent. At Washington Mutual Inc., short-term ARMs accounted for $19 billion, or 40 percent, of the company's mortgage originations in the fourth quarter, up from 24 percent a year earlier. In California, the nation's largest mortgage market, such loans account for as much as 20 percent of all mortgage volume, according to Todd Householder, an executive vice president at National City Corp.

"For lenders, the low teaser rates are a way to attract customers at a time when business has slowed. Mortgage volume is expected to decline to $2.5 trillion this year, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association, from a peak of $3.8 trillion in 2003. The need to keep loan pipelines full has helped fuel the growth of interest-only mortgages and other creative lending products."

. . .

"Loans with negative amortization were common in the late 1980s. But they fell from favor because many borrowers didn't understand the risks of a rising loan balance. When real-estate prices fell, some borrowers wound up owing more than their home was worth.

"Lenders say they have tightened their standards and now do a better job of explaining the loans' risks. They have added features, such limiting how big the outstanding balance can get."

Why ® at the end of realtor?

seaside says

Why ® at the end of realtor?

Because they are in their own little bubble?

"WHO THE HELL KNEW..." she asks. So all the time they were saying, "Now's the time! Don't get left out! I'd offer an extra ten percent if you want to be considered!" they were just as deluded as the poor schmudge who overpaid and then lost her job? Or the realtor who convinced the family of a deceased friend to sell her house to him for less than its value, which he then subdivided and rented -- who the hell knew he would reap such a profit from their naivete? (It was put on the market as "SALE PENDING" without ever being open to other bidders. Why the pretense? So the realtor could stick his little sign out front for free advertising?) What about all those realtors in San Diego who snapped up properties and sold and re-sold them to each other to keep the comps high? Sniff...those poor lambs, who could have known...

In other words, the experts (R) demanding a 6% commission for their valuable services are:

1. ignorant

2. dishonest

3. a combination of both? Who the hell could have known!

Realtor = Bloodsucker.
End of Story.

Realwhore in Deep Denial say

MOST PEOPLE BOUGHT WITHIN THEIR BUDGET! MOST PEOPLE DID NOT BUY MORE THAN THEY COULD AFFORD! STOP BLAMING PEOPLE who, last time I checked, BOUGHT A HOUSE THROUGH THE USE OF A REALTOR®

One has to yell quite loudly to be heard thru the thick doors of the asylum. The part that amuses me most (from that little tidbit above) is that she appears to believe that she has "checked" every purchase in the past 10 years, and that each & every one was conducted thru the use of a realtor.

But the RE "profession" doesn't have anything to do with the bubble, which doesn't exist according to her. And yet she sticks with it, possibly because it's the quickest way to get initials behind your name. I have initials for her...

B. ULL. SHIT

REALTARD®

xrpb11a says

Realtor = Bloodsucker.
End of Story.

Could not agree more.

I had friends that were buying into the bubble. I tried to warn them, to stop their leap of faith off of a cliff..... "but my realtor said now's a good time to buy".

These cockroaches are the lowest of the low. It's not just how much they skim from a transaction. Highway robbery can be forgivable I suppose. It's the exclusive attention they have from their clients that allow their propaganda and manipulation to get them to do things they shouldn't. It's the lies, the ignorance of markets and the economy, the general stupidity.

I thought getting my RE license might build some appreciation or empathy for these bloodsuckers. I'm ready to quit this class, the bullshit is just so unbeareable. A quote from last night's class:

"The bubble needed to burst, but not this badly. News outlets like the WSJ reported constant doom and gloom until investors switched from real estate to stocks, which helped the WSJ's bottom line and caused this buyers' market which has to end soon for our economy to recover"

This instructor is one of the "elite" realtors of my region. I'm not kidding.

Eh, you guys are a tad harsh on the whores, don't you think? Comparing RE agents to prostitutes is kind of unfair to prostitutes! At least they are honest, straight up cash money for sex, no questions asked.

Just as a devil's advocate, let me say that my wife and I actually have a good agent. One with lots of experience who is actually helpful and points out stuff about houses many might not notice. We've been working with her for the past 6 months and she's never pressured us or given us a big line of BS. And she's worked with us on several short sales which are really a PITA.

My 2 cents, take it or leave it.

i love this thread - Takes me back to my early days on the site.

It's cute that they have their own little blog so they can talk about how they werent responsible for the financial suicide of thousands of hard working families while making ridiculous amount of $$$ pushing them off the financial cliff of doom.

at least one guy owned it

We all brought this meltdown on ourselves. Buyers, Sellers, lenders, appraisers and yes, even REALTORs

Serpentor says

It’s cute that they have their own little blog so they can talk about how they werent responsible for the financial suicide of thousands of hard working families while making ridiculous amount of $$$ pushing them off the financial cliff of doom.

The instructor in my class gets misty eyed talking about all that. No, not the buyers that got completely screwed or the millions of families whose finances became trashed. She is really nostalgic for the days when all she add to do was add a property into the MLS and get an immediate phone call and offer. I mean, who wouldn't love a $40k for doing nothing?

She in no way admits culpability for that "wonderful sellers market". They're never guilty, just like it's always a great time to buy. And sell.

I'm sorry for being an ignoramus, but having admitted it, could someone help me to understand this? A close family member has applied for a modification (working on it since January, bank consistently says "You haven't sent in the paperwork," she replies, "I have the signed receipts that your company received it," they answer, "Well, send it in again") and Friday she gets a notice that her house is going to be auctioned Monday (yesterday).

Panicked weekend. She paid $1,000 up front for services of realtor person to help shortsale or fight the foreclosure (I know, risky move there; she was just frantic). She didn't sleep for 2 days, researching comps in the area. So when she meets with this guy and she has reams of data on housing prices for a short sale (thinking she was "helping" him), he politely made her feel like a retard. There will be a listing, say, for $199,000, for a 4 bed, 2 bath within .15 miles of her property. But in the private realtor comments on the MLS, he showed her that it says the bank wants $350,000. Houses in her neighborhood aren't selling at $275k!

How is this not bait and switch? Or false advertising? Apparently before some of these properties are listed they already have a buyer and they are listed as "Sale Pending" before anyone else gets a chance. On the other hand, trashed junkers are listed low but have those hidden REAL prices. Are the realtors trying to hang onto power by having cheap listings to reel in the suckers but a higher price for the real idiots? How can a service like Trulia or ZipRealty go along with this? How does it benefit the bank to make it impossible to resolve a case? Do they think they can artificially create a market based on what price THEY set, rather than what someone wants to pay? Oh, on that point I know the answer: they were already made whole and the foreclosure thing is just the icing on the cake, right?

In her case, she put down half the sales amount (back in 2006, it was supposed to be the home where she'd retire) and so she "only" owes $250k, and has seen that much "value" evaporate, but the bank could probably recoup its "loss" by selling it for that much. Do you think that's why they won't modify it? She's not trying to get out of paying it, she's trying to get a lower monthly payment over a longer period of time. She has her life savings in it. After 5 phone calls yesterday, her "agent" managed a 10 day reprieve from the auction while the bank ignores the modification request some more. Is any good ending possible here?

What a deal, when the agents who promised such great things in the bubble are now the saviors of the shipwrecked. Hallmark should put out a card: "With Sympathy in the Loss of Your Home."

klarek says

She is really nostalgic for the days when all she add to do was add a property into the MLS and get an immediate phone call and offer. I mean, who wouldn’t love a $40k for doing nothing?

Huh. Now she's teaching up and coming Realtwhores to make a living?

You sound like a non-Realtard®. What in the world are you doing at that class?!

Liz Pendens says

Huh. Now she’s teaching up and coming Realtwhores to make a living?
You sound like a non-Realtard®. What in the world are you doing at that class?!

If I get my license, then that's some Realtard's future commission that I can deprive them of. I'm doing it for justice.

Cautious1 says

I’m sorry for being an ignoramus, but having admitted it, could someone help me to understand this?
What a deal, when the agents who promised such great things in the bubble are now the saviors of the shipwrecked. Hallmark should put out a card: “With Sympathy in the Loss of Your Home.”

Probably would be a good idea to start your own thread on this topic or it may get drowned out. Sounds like she needs a lawyer, not an RE agent.

Cautious1, I think you should make another thread for your question, not at the middle of some other thread. In that way, you may get better answer. I think she may want to see a lawyer.

Thank you, a4adam and seaside.

klarek says

If I get my license, then that’s some Realtard’s future commission that I can deprive them of. I’m doing it for justice.

I dunno Klarek, even the strong and (initially) righteous get sucked in.

Had a relative who became a realtor (hate to admit it, but at least not a blood relative, thank God) - he was going to be the 'honest' and 'hardworking' one... the one who didn't shovel shit... the one who clients would value because they would see his true worth...

A year later, the asshole wasn't disclosing to buyers that washing machines weren't hooked up to any plumbing ("hey, if their engineer didn't catch it, then it's certainly not MY responsibility") , was telling them they could rent out the detached 1 car garage as a rental 'cottage' no problem/no permits, was bitching that buyers looking at homes for $899,000 had the nerve to shyly mention the new landscaping was dying off.

And that was in 2004-5. Nowadays, Asshole will sell his mother for 2% commission.

seaside says

Why ® at the end of realtor?

It's a registered trademark. Not all agents are Realtors®. As an agent you basically sign on and then BECOME a realtor. They like to claim they are more honest, trustworthy, blah, blah. You basically pay your membership fee, do a Code of Ethics test and let the lobby take over.

The benefit for the agent is they get to wear a little pin and can say they are a Realtor® on their business card. Also they belong to one of the largest lobbys is the US. The National Association of Realtors® runs ads in prime-time for you letting all the buyers know. "Ask to make sure your agent is a Realtor®." So you get extra promises as they sail you down the river.

The marketing behind it is a little weak. I always catch myself saying Realtor rather than Agent, wether or not they are one. The pressure in the industry to become one is HUGE. If you feel like RE is what you love and you want to sell houses seriously (not something between marriages), it possibly behoves you to become one just to get your Broker off your back and you can hang with the cliquey crowd around the cooler. (I guess it just shows you're serious)

Oh yeah.. if you are a Realtor® you get newsletters and can visit seminars to keep you on the cutting edge. They also give you 'canned' statements or answers to tough questions, like...

"Will my house increase in value?"
"Is it the right time to buy?"

The NAR produces answers for all these 'tough' questions. They constantly feed their agents more and more convoluted answers as why it the right time to buy... now! NOW God damn you, Now!

Perhaps this little missive dealt atop here is a creative twist on one of NAR's ideas to "Get eye level with your customers" or "Be seemingly honest, then deceitful" or better yet... "Defend the Fatherland!."

My favorite contention from this trolup is...

"WHO THE HELL KNEW THAT THE HOUSING MARKET WAS GOING TO GET SUCKED INTO THE BLACK HOLE created by the Banksers?"

Wow. Really? In a RE transaction are you not taking a fee?
Does that not imply you are a professional?
Wouldn't you think a professional would see this coming?
If not exactly how it played out... as a consumate professional (Realtor®) would you not guide your clients clear of the impending disaster.
No.
Because you're human like everyone and need to pay your bills. The only problem here is you're messing with peoples lives and fucking them on the biggest purchase of their lives.
Then when things get messy, you revert back to a Mom, and begin to yell... "STOP BLAMING EVERYONE, QUIT WHINING, SIT DOWN AND EAT YOUR FOOD, LEAVE YOUR SISTER ALONE."

We all know the NAR saw this coming, everyone knew it was a bubble. I doubt, EVER, the NAR sent out a reminder. "Remember we're in a bubble! Make sure to warn your customers to er on the safe side..."

Buyers should also form an alliance called Buyor®. There will be leaders that give seminars as to how not to get fooled by a Realtor®

Carla's latest post is Patrick's personal info, and she's claiming defamation by people on here. Just in case Patrick doesn't know the law on this yet:

http://www.chillingeffects.org/defamation/faq.cgi#QID709

Question: Can an ISP or the host of the message board or chat room be held liable for
defamatory of libelous statements made by others on the message board?

Answer: Not in the United States. Under 47 U.S.C. sec. 230(c)(1) (CDA Sec. 230): "No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider." This provision has been uniformly interpreted by the Courts to provide complete protection against defamation or libel claims made against an ISP, message board or chat room where the statements are made by third parties. Note that this immunity does not extend to claims made under intellectual property laws.

Question: Must an ISP or message board host delete postings that someone tells him/her are defamatory? Can the ISP or message board delete postings in response to a request from a third party?

Answer: No, they are not required to delete. 47 U.S.C. sec. 230 gives most ISPs and message board hosts the discretion to keep postings or delete them, whichever they prefer, in response to claims by others that a posting is defamatory or libelous. Most ISPs and message board hosts also post terms of service that give them the right to delete or not delete messages as they see fit and such terms have generally been held to be enforceable under law.

mthom: "Carla’s latest post is Patrick’s personal info, and she’s claiming defamation by people on here."

How can it be defamation if it's true?

Liz Pendens says

I dunno Klarek, even the strong and (initially) righteous get sucked in.

I have a real job that pays more than these bloodsuckers make, so it's unlikely I'll get drawn in. And unlike your non-blood-related family member, I don't just have a "keep things honest" mentality. I have a concentrated and utter hatred for these pond scum parasites. So hopefully someone will just kill me if I become like them, before anyone else finds out.

Cautious1 says

mthom: “Carla’s latest post is Patrick’s personal info, and she’s claiming defamation by people on here.”
How can it be defamation if it’s true?

Wow that is pretty classless move on her part... not unexpected of course

well it looks like she thought better of it and deleted that post, although she shows her true bitchy colors by attacking everyone that disagreed with her. I'd hate to be near her during her time of the month.

Some realators were bad!!! Mine in particular. He was horrible and tried to get us to spend more than we could afford. I don't think you can blame all realators, but I do think many of them were being greedy. I actually lay most of the blame with Loan Officers that made crappy loans. My first job out of college was with Wells Fargo Financial, and they were one of the only companies out on the market that did principle and interest loans and no funny stuff! Even though I didn't like my job and later left for grad school I think they were one of the better companies around. I blame countrywide!!!

"Buyers should also form an alliance called Buyor®. There will be leaders that give seminars as to how not to get fooled by a Realtor®"

I love this.....you take your Buyer® with you to your Realtor's® office to sign up. Then your Buyer® and Realtor® go to meet the sellers Seller®. Then the buyer and seller sit haplessly as the Buyer®, Realtor®, and Seller® negotiate over how to cornhole you out of 18%.....for doing jackshit......

Well thankfully due to my dilligence in monitoring the pond scum, I have "realtor" as a google alert so I can find out what they're trying to do to Congress that screws the rest of us. If you want to know what their b.s. commissions brought them during the bubble, here you go:

http://www.viralhousingfix.com/2010/07/13/a-dramatic-drop-in-realtor-income-has-driven-a-systematic-decline-in-marketing-spending-data-shows/

I'm an econ guy, but I could be wrong, but does ~$25m to ~$75m over a ~8 year period under or over perform the rate of inflation? That's like taking about a million tons of Oreo cookies, crumbling them up, and dumping them on a colony of cockroaches.

Serpentor says

Cautious1 says

mthom: “Carla’s latest post is Patrick’s personal info, and she’s claiming defamation by people on here.”

How can it be defamation if it’s true?

Wow that is pretty classless move on her part… not unexpected of course

Holy crap, what a bitch - I wonder if she uses the same charming communication skills with her clients.

Patrick I'm sorry if she caused you any grief.

Cautious1 says

mthom: “Carla’s latest post is Patrick’s personal info, and she’s claiming defamation by people on here.”

Well. Seems she's into freedom of speech - Here's a little something from the blog of Ms. Muss-Jacobs, ABR, CEBA, e-PRO, Realtor®:

"Let's contact our Senators and let them know what we think of the DISCLOSE Act. Is it fair to have a two tiered system of freedom of speech? Aren't we all guaranteed the right to freedom of speech? Not according to this administration. Our voices need to be heard. I know I'm going to take action. If I don't now, when?"

Apparently the problem is she can dish it, but not take it.

Here's more of her class act:

Oh the GOOD OLD DAYS -- When it was ONLY a BUBBLE . . . Not a MELTDOWN, NOT A FINANCIAL CRISIS, NOT EVEN A RECISSION

I love to read comments on blogs posts -- mine included -- where people toot their horns: "I knew it was coming"

And then . . . I bow down to them in utter amazement. Mesmerized by their Wizard of Oz powers. I mumble at their feet: "WOW -- you knew "it" was coming . . ."

I'm now worthy. I'm not worthy.

Then sanity is restored, and I realize they are NOT the Wizard of OZ -- and they just love to blow smoke up peoples' butt, trying to convince everyone how "in tune" they were to the market.

Hey Einstein . . . we all knew about "it"

Any idiot with a TV could have known about "it."

http://activerain.com/blogsview/1742768/oh-the-good-old-days-when-it-was-only-a-bubble-not-a-meltdown-not-a-financial-crisis-not-even-a-recission

Cautious1 says

mthom: “Carla’s latest post is Patrick’s personal info, and she’s claiming defamation by people on here.”
How can it be defamation if it’s true?

I don't think one can sue for "definition of character..." but she sounds like a charming, well-informed, delightful woman with the ability for independent thought and a unique command of the english language. An amazing communicator whose writing skills are only overshadowed by her inability to comprehend the true nature of the housing bubble and how her "profession" contributed to the downfall of our modern civilization.

Serpentor says

Wow that is pretty classless move on her part… not unexpected of course

Classless? She's a realtor. I don't believe that class is a consideration in her life at this point.

One of my sisters is a realtor. It's an embarassing family secret that most of us are hesitant to share in public. I trust that ya'll will keep my confidence... When mom was dying, we didn't want to upset her by telling her about sis's "career" choice... instead we told her that she was a homeless street prostitute with a drug habit. We wanted her to be proud of all of us...

i can see why the ugly bitch is bitter about life and angry at everyone.

Cautious1 says

mthom: “Carla’s latest post is Patrick’s personal info, and she’s claiming defamation by people on here.”
How can it be defamation if it’s true?

:) Some of the stuff was a bit more on the hyperbole side rather than truthful. I don't seriously think there's a potential issue, I just wanted to bring attention to it to Patrick since he probably doesn't check out her site.

I tried to click on the link - it wouldn't let me in... I feel slighted and more than a little hurt. Oh- wait... I'm over it. But it was touch & go for a minute there.

mthom says

Cautious1 says

mthom: “Carla’s latest post is Patrick’s personal info, and she’s claiming defamation by people on here.”

How can it be defamation if it’s true?

Some of the stuff was a bit more on the hyperbole side rather than truthful. I don’t seriously think there’s a potential issue, I just wanted to bring attention to it to Patrick since he probably doesn’t check out her site.

From her own blog:

"Opinions, advice, are that of the author and are protected under the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. All comments posted on others' blog sites are the opinion of Carla Muss-Jacobs and are protected under First Amendment statute."

She's simply a huge hypocrite.

Liz Pendens says

From her own blog:
“Opinions, advice, are that of the author and are protected under the First Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. All comments posted on others’ blog sites are the opinion of Carla Muss-Jacobs and are protected under First Amendment statute.”
She’s simply a huge hypocrite.

Of course. Just like her whole thread - criticize/blame others but when some people put some of the blame on her and her ilk, she deletes their post.