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Are High Speed Trains the Transportation for the Future?


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2006 Dec 11, 12:49pm   24,462 views  137 comments

by astrid   ➕follow (0)   💰tip   ignore  

Paul asks:

For a new thread I’d be interested in hearing thoughts on transportation and how it impacts where we live. One thing I think about is if we could actually have REAL high speed rail in this country, perhaps that would open up more housing choice. It always blows me away when you can’t ride a train into the city center like when Amtrak drops you off in Emryville instead of SF. I thought at one point CA was leading the charge on this topic - http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/

#housing

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123   HARM   2006 Dec 12, 7:51am  

@Peter P,

Excess weight is a liability in a flying car.

124   Peter P   2006 Dec 12, 7:54am  

Excess weight is a liability in a flying car.

True. And weight does not buy safety in the air anyway.

125   HARM   2006 Dec 12, 8:02am  

FYI: Moller offers public tours of the Skycar plant each Thursday. It's in Davis, so very convenient for all you NCAL folks.

126   Peter P   2006 Dec 12, 8:21am  

Somehow the concept of electric vehicles does not intrigue me.

I rather have 12 cylinders at that price.

127   astrid   2006 Dec 12, 8:41am  

When in the BA, I always try to take BART to the airport. I do the same for DCA. One big complaint I have for DC is that there's not METRO (DC's subway) extension to Dulles or BWI (where all the non-US Airway flights are).

128   astrid   2006 Dec 12, 9:06am  

SFWoman,

There's no METRO in Georgetown or Potomac, but there are stops in Bethesda, near Chevy Chase, and in other parts of expensive NW DC. For a certain demographic, DC's public transportation is very good - all the federal workers are required to get to work 9-5 (or whatever hours they work) and that would be impossible if everybody drove to work.

Ultimately, the problem of public transportation as it currently exist is weighing the cost of having a suburban population density v. having something like NYC or Tokyo population density. Throwing money at public transportation means nothing they don't allow ugly high rise residential buildings to spring up where ugly low rise buildings currently sit. I support high rises and high population density, since that's much more energy and time efficient (and more convenient shopping/eating out) - but that would be quite a brainwashing exercise.

Actually, I support extreme population control...but that's just me picking a fight with Randy H.

129   Peter P   2006 Dec 12, 9:40am  

I support high rises and high population density, since that’s much more energy and time efficient

I support high rises because I like elevators, concrete, steel, and glass.

Somehow I do not think wood is a good structural material.

Actually, I support extreme population control…but that’s just me picking a fight with Randy H.

The poor should not be encouraged into having children. The child tax credit must be reformed.

I do not agree with China's population policy though. Better people should be allowed (and encouraged) to have more kids.

130   Brand165   2006 Dec 12, 10:34am  

Peter P says: Also, subway trains here do not look safe. There are too many weird people walking around.

In Germany, France and Italy, the polite guards with submachine guns tend to keep things clean. Although I took a 4 a.m. train from Stuttgart to Paris one morning, and there were some rowdy drunken skinheads on the platform. I did not really feel that safe.

Robert Cote says: The important thing to remember is that passenger rail transit is so undesireable that even the most ardent supporters are unwilling to pay anything close to the full amortized cost of this form of transport.

I tend to agree.

If you are a Western European, these sorts of things are built into your taxes. I would note that even monthly rail passes there are expensive compared to the U.S. monthly cost of a car. However, the European cost of a car is much higher to support their autobahns--consider the higher insurance, gas, tolls and registration fees.

131   astrid   2006 Dec 12, 10:40am  

Brand,

On the other hand, things like air pollution and time wasted on the road are not considered by Americans either.

People are willing to pay much higher price for transportation if they're acclimated to those costs and "cheaper" alternatives do not exist. One of my cousin in Shanghai used to spend almost half his salary (back when he was starting) on commuting each month. You get used to it and just cut back on other things and mooch off of parents.

132   Brand165   2006 Dec 12, 11:07am  

People are willing to pay much higher price for transportation if they’re acclimated to those costs and “cheaper” alternatives do not exist.

astrid, you could argue that about anything. Human beings are incredibly flexible when it comes to rationalization and adaptation. Most people simply lack the self-awareness to truly analyze the different options available.

There is also the primate social mentality. If others do the same thing as I, then what I do must be the correct thing. We all pay 50% of our salary to... you name it: food, housing, transportation, attracting a mate... but it's okay because everybody else does it too.

133   astrid   2006 Dec 12, 11:14am  

Brand,

Yeah, I agree. That's why saying people won't pay $$$ for XYZ is a slippery slope. As long as the amount is less than 100%, any price is possible. Even 100%+ is possible, hence all this housing craziness.

"If others do the same thing as I, then what I do must be the correct thing."

Yeah, aren't we all living that! We all know someone who thinks paying 50%+ of take home salary on "owning" a house is a good idea.

134   Different Sean   2006 Dec 13, 4:25am  

We all know someone who thinks paying 50%+ of take home salary on “owning” a house is a good idea.

suits the banks...

135   salk   2006 Dec 13, 5:19am  

Brand , dont forget about the real hooligans :the Arabs and Africans in France. Perhaps hundreds of Parisians were recently assaulted on public transportation by Arabs and Africans. Just like the US?

136   salk   2006 Dec 13, 5:51am  

Different Sean, thanks for the Oppenheimer link. A lightweight relative to the other physicists of his time (Teller, Szillard,etc). Lawyers responsible for the safety of citizens??? Please. Judges routinely release child molesters because of technicality or carelessness.

137   salk   2006 Dec 13, 6:02am  

Eburbed, I believe I qualified my comments with the Manhattan exception. But it is Giuliani's subway crackdown that led to the revitalization of Manhattan and its public transport. With that said, I refuse to take the subways-not secure enough for me. Only travel with car service or taxi in NY.

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