patrick.net

lol ... dang. You pegged me. Cheers.

Unless 'those illegals' are working under the table then they are paying taxes and their employers are paying taxes even if it's under a dead persons SS#. From what I witness, I'd hire a Mexican any day over a most white people I meet in the same profession, skill. They are hard working, they come here to earn money to support their families here and back home. Heck, go to your nearest meat processing plant and tell me what you see (but not too many details as I'd likely puke).

Some folks act like 'those illegals' don't contribute to society. How much would your produce cost if the farmers had to pay 'someone else'. How much would lawn care, construction, kitchen and hotel help cost, meat...?

So let's look at this another way, say one of 'those illegals' comes to the ED via ambulance after an accident caused by no fault of his own. Do we let him bleed out and die because he is 'illegal'. You'd stand there and watch some one die because they are 'illegal'...WTF?

Leigh says

Unless ‘those illegals’ are working under the table then they are paying taxes and their employers are paying taxes even if it’s under a dead persons SS#

The scam that no one wants to talk about. Employers know if a SS# is bad with the first paycheck. They have 12 months to ask for a correction. The person then hands them another phony SS# and can work 12 more months. Again and Again. These people pay millions (perhaps billions) into SS and medicare knowing that they will never see anything from it. So in actual fact the wealthiest group of people (seniors) in the wealthiest country in the world are stealing from the poorest, the illegal immigrants. Perfect.

No one in government or business wants to clean up illegal immigration. There is way too much money for businesses to make and way too many campaign contributions from these business for politicians to ever fix the problem. Start putting business owners in jail for hiring illegals and the estimated 12 million illegals would be gone in a couple of months. Everyone likes to complain about the illegals, but everyone also loves cheap produce, childcare, and lawn/pool care.

Leigh says

So let’s look at this another way, say one of ‘those illegals’ comes to the ED via ambulance after an accident caused by no fault of his own. Do we let him bleed out and die because he is ‘illegal’. You’d stand there and watch some one die because they are ‘illegal’…WTF?

The uninformed who believe that they have all the answers because they know how to google and vent their anger at the illegals don't get it. Healthcare is a human issue. Our system is broken. Instead of offering any realistic answers, they'd rather whine, point fingers, demean other posters and represent themselves as victims of the system that pays for illegals to receive minimal healthcare.

We've beat this thread to death. Rather than acknowledge the problem, posters continually link the problem to their political party and views. Let's let it rest - I hope that the whiners and self-imposed victims never experience a healthcare emergency beyond their ability to pay. I hope that they never encounter a disease that they can't beat, no matter how awesome their insurance might be. But most of all, I hope that age & experience will change their mindset from being bitter about someone receiving healthcare partially subsidized by their tax dollars to understanding that healthcare should never be an option.

Elliemae over & out on this one. No sense beating a dead horse with someone who thinks it's a donkey they can kill a million times to make their point.

Sorry WIWL, not referring to you. I'll try to be more clear in my hurriedness.

So here I am at work and two of my patients today are in for health problems related to heroine and crack, long time welfare, on Medicaid. I think I'd rather be giving free care to my fellow human beings who work hard at the orchards than sit at home doing crack and Old English, just my opinion though.

^ this is why mandated health insurance is such a great idea. Plus we need to throw people who hire under the table into jail -- that's the only way to solve the illegal immigrant problem.

Troy says

^ this is why mandated health insurance is such a great idea. Plus we need to throw people who hire under the table into jail — that’s the only way to solve the illegal immigrant problem.

Mandated health insurance, the beacon of hope for the "free world"

AdHominem says

Mandated health insurance, the beacon of hope for the “free world”

The rest of the free world has universal health care so I'm not sure what you mean with that statement. But mandated health insurance is really the only way to try to lower costs by eliminating the "free rider" problem.

^ hey man, being a free rider is what freedom is all about in the free world.

Troy says

^ hey man, being a free rider is what freedom is all about in the free world.

And here I thought it was free riders that bring collapse of freedom. Whoops my bad. Pass the free health care koolade please.

Ad--

Here's an article for you to consider:

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-platform/published-editorials/2010/01/an-individual-mandate-is-fairest-way-to-protect-health-care/

AdHom, every system has a problem with free riders. In laissez faire utopias, they are the rentiers, the landed class. In medieval economies, it is known as the tragedy of the unmanaged commons. In Stalinist dystopias, it is the Party apparat.

The only society without free riders is caveman society whose only fixed capital was the firepit. Once we became human and a social animal free riders became everyone's problem.

wish i was lucky says

There should probably be an option of some type of public work program where a person who lacks money - but who has some time - could trade some labor for their health care. And maybe a reward system for people who can manage to stay healthy.

I agree with alot of this idea

^ I think that particular jobs program is already run by the DOD.

wish i was lucky says

How about we figure out a way to turn some of those McMansions into Boarding Houses?

That's already happening.

Troy says

AdHom, every system has a problem with free riders.

Good thing we have a government to protect and enable the free riders. Both poor and rich alike.

AdHominem says

Good thing we have a government to protect and enable the free riders. Both poor and rich alike

Yes, good point. I almost forgot that everything is the government's fault. Good thing you are here to remind everyone..

tatupu70 says

AdHominem says

Good thing we have a government to protect and enable the free riders. Both poor and rich alike

Yes, good point. I almost forgot that everything is the government’s fault. Good thing you are here to remind everyone..

There there tatu, you don't have to speak for me all the time do you?

Government is not to blame. Big government ideology is. Government should not be big enough to enable freeloaders.

AdHominem says

Government is not to blame. Big government ideology is. Government should not be big enough to enable freeloaders.

That's just it. Free-loaders exist with big government, small government, and even with no government.